The question "which" and "where" do I train...?

[BelArgUSA]

Shall I start with the "ad nauseam" as well...?
Sorry, I slept through my classes of Latin and Greek...
Talking about the favorite subject voiced by our wannabees -
"Which school", or "where do I train" and "what licence"...?
xxx
As a recently retired pilot, many years with the airlines, the above never crossed my mind.
Oh, true, many kids asked me "Sir, how do I become an airline pilot...?" -
My answer always was -
(1) Finish school and get a good education, with sciences and math subjects.
(2) Become a military pilot for a few years and get their excellent (and free) training.
(3) Get accepted as a cadet, sponsored by an airline. At worst, a training bond.
(4) And if that does not work - last choice... pay (a fortune) for your training...
xxx
The last few years of my career, I was often behind a desk in the training department.
I was at times asked to sit with HR manager and/or chief pilot to select new hires.
At the interviews, we never asked much about "which school" did you go to.
A licence is a licence. Each airline has minimum standards and qualifications.
To be a first officer, you need a CPL/IR/ME...
And of course, the ATPL written exams or a type rating is nice to have, or required.
Some airlines could take you with as little as 300 hours, some 1,500 or 2,000.
xxx
A log book with hours in a C-152, or C-172, or PA-28 is fine. Pardon me, you have C-206 time too...!
Fact is, some of us do not even know the difference between a 152 and a 172.
Certainly, the airline HR managers do not even have a clue.
For us, it is all "single engine light aircraft" time... period.
xxx
I never had the situation of a candidate who "bought" 100 hrs of line training in a 320/737.
I believe that "buying experience" is NOT a yardstick for qualifications.
You are rich, fine - but I prefer an applicant who made other types of effort to qualify.
Licences required, yes... education, yes... money does not impress me.
You can have a BMW or a Mercedes. I just have an old Peugeot 205...
So with me, you would not stand a single chance to be considered.
Nor if you offer yourself as "free F/O current 320 on Ebay".
xxx
If you went to Oxford University, or Pasadena City College does not matter much.
Same for the "Aviation Academy" you attended for your licence.
Podunk Aeroclub can get you the same licence for the fraction of the cost.
All CPL/IR/ME licences are... the same. Your ticket to the RHS of an airliner.
Modular or integrated...? What is that animal... Which one teaches ILS proficiency better...?
xxx
My advice as former airline captain is simple -
(1) Do your training in your country, for licences issued by your country's CAA.
(2) Do it near home, to save on travel and living expenses, for 1 year or longer.
(3) If you are, say from UK, i.e. why in hell do a US/FAA licence training...?
(4) Try by all means to join an airline in your home country.
(5) If necessary, study the English language. Aymara or Guarani is not needed for ICAO R/T.
Sorry if my English spelling is "favorite" for 'favourite' and "program" for 'programme'.
That is the way I learned your language in one of your ex-colonies.
xxx
With current worldwide economic problems, there are 100 applicants for very few openings.
And sorry to be nasty, but I have thrown CVs in the "circular file" under my desk... poor spelling.
Old farts like me are the people who select you at the job interviews.
Sorry if our older generation attach importance to education and culture...
That is the way it was in the past century, and will remain so for the next few years.
xxx
You all want to be A-380 captain in 2020... right... salary will be better.
But many will have to settle to be flight instructor, part time or full time.
Or a career to fly little boxes at night in a Skyvan.
Or do "sightseeing flights" on sundays in summer, or tow banners and gliders.
No need to mortgage a house and spend €75,000 in training for that.
And a job with Air Baluchistan based in Quetta as ATR F/O is not my idea of a career.
xxx
On the roads, there are cars, taxis, limousines, buses, trucks to drive, if you love motoring.
Same in aviation... we all are pilots, from the Cessna/Pipers to the Airbus/Boeings.
We all claim "to love aviation"... ok then. Get in the air.
xxx
Good luck to all -
And as usual, disregard the above, as it comes from an experienced pilot.
All I paid (actually my mother paid) was a PPL... to end as a 747 TRE/TRI.
:E
Happy contrails

[Obs cop]

BelargUSA,

Can I be the first to thank you for what for many are some home truths.

I have , for some time read these forums with some dismay that we are descending head first into a belief that we can buy our way into the right hand seat of a shiney jet, irrespective of our character flaws, our education or realistic approaches to developing our flying skills.

I don't have the money to go to a top line FTO shelling out tens of thousands to put a name on a CV. I can't afford a type rating. It's taken me 5 years to get to the start of my CPL course.

And yes I'm contemplating whether to do my FI or an IR next.

Speaking to 2 colleagues who are in the industry (both were over 30 when they started and now fly jets for major carriers) they have both stated that noboby ever asked where they trained. They were simply required to provide copies of licences to confirm their "ticks in boxes" were in place and they stated a licence is a licence is a licence, it doesn't matter how you got there. Likewise their feedback is that airlines don't think of hours in tens as flyers with low hours might but in thousands. A key one explained to me was 1000 hours because you are so much closer to unfreezing your ATPL. One of my colleagues instructed for 2 years before getting on to Fokker F50's and the other managed to get straight into the right hand seat of turboprops.

I also believe that there are a group of people who despite all the money in the world may never achieve their dream, because when they are interviewed traits show which are incompatible with either the company, crewing or cockpit environments. If I won the lottery, I still don't think Ferrari would let me be a driver in their Formula 1 team! Likewise I don't have the nature to be a city financier.

Maybe we need more food for thought for all those who simply view it with rose tinted spectacles and who think it is simply a case of spending money and buying names for a cv.

Just my thoughts,
Obs

[youngskywalker]

Agree with most of that except, "why in the hell do a US/FAA licence?"...probably because something near 70% of the worlds aircraft are on the 'N' reg and most other countries accept an FAA licence - with an exception to the JAR states, but let's face it Europe is not exactly the bee all and end all of world aviation! ;)

[BelArgUSA]

Hola youngskywalker -
xxx
A few facts about FAA certificates.
I made my entire career with an FAA licence.
And contrary to what your think, JAR gave me an ATPL (Iceland).
So wrong there - JAR will validate FAA certificates.
All it took me, was a simulator base check. No written exams.
But despite the fact that I am 100% "pro-FAA", I do not recommend it to Europeans.
Unless of course they can qualify for work in the USA.
But for a USA visa... do not count on it. Mission "impossible".
xxx
When an employer (European airline) leases a N registered aircraft, you can get FAA validation.
With a JAR licence... See FAR 61.75...
xxx
:8
Happy contrails

[youngskywalker]

Yep, I knew that the Icelandic lot would give validations, infact all the JAR countries can do this, in theory one can get a UK validation, it's just that they don't need to. You would have qualified for a JAA ATPL anyway because you have more than 1500 hours of heavy jet/multi crew PIC time in your book.

Of course you are far better to get the licence of your own country, saves a lot of hassle, but I have managed to make a living for a while in the UK flying corporate N reg aircraft, it's much more comon than you may think. For many it's a useful way to bypass the slightly stricter JAA class one medical that would have grounded me initially. I now have useful turbine hours that I would never have got if I didnt have an FAA licence.

Happy retirement to you!

[BelArgUSA]

Got you youngskywalker -
xxx
I understand your motives, and glad the FAA certificate serves you fine.
What you guys have to do to get a JAR ATPL is beyond me...
Written test - 14 exams - what is it...? Design and build an airplane...?
Fly the space shuttle...? Compute orbital velocity at 11.5 km/sec...?
Amazing, UK/CAA does not require Squawk 7700 from N planes in their espace.
Due to the lack of intellectual capacity of FAA rated pilots...!
xxx
Enjoying retirement - As bikini inspector - 28º C right now.
:ok:
Happy contrails to you

Multi crew...? What is that... I always soloed 747s...
That is the 747SP - SP/Single Pilot

[chongololo]

Well said in your opening post BelArgUsa.

[I like planes & stuf]

And there was me thinking SP stood for Steam Powered :}

[alkatifa]

HAHAHAHAHA....bikini inspector.....jesus I crack myself up! :ok:

Thanks a lot for all the input though.

[Vems]

First post.. I couldn't say it better myself. I hope at least this will get some sense into some minds.. :)

Happy landings :)