Bell 412 FADEC

[Bell427]

I was wondering is Bell 412 equiped with FADEC in any variant?

[Blackhawk9]

Yes, the Saudi's operate super 412EP's (my name not Bell's), with full MFD glass cockpits ,Flir etc and PT6T-9 twin pac's with Fadec. as for as I know not avail for civilian/commercial sale.

[noooby]

From what I remember from working on the Saudi 412's (was a while ago!!), they aren't fitted with a true FADEC, but rather DEC . Single channel, with manual backup, hence not Full Authority (just like the AW139).
I think we called them 412EP+, but I think they're real name is 412SAR. Can't remember. Training notes don't really say what the model designation is (not mine anyway).
Can't really remember much else. It was all a bad dream!! :{
They hadn't finished delivering them all before I left

[Encyclo]

Bell 412EP with digital control PT6T-9 was delivered to RSAF (Bell and Agusta) and to the Turkish Coast Guard (Agusta only).
These controls are essentially the same ones found on the PWC 207 engine (Bell 427). Very reliable system in both cases.

[Bell427]

Thank you very much for your answer!

[noooby]

I've got 782Mb of manuals for them, but they're all in PDF, and I can't take individual pages out to put them on here. Oh, it doesn't have FADEC, only single channel Digital Engine Control with a manual backup, very similar to the AW139 system. But the 139 system is a lot simpler.

[Avnx EO]

Ah... I love it when a question drops into my lap.

The Royal Saudi Bell 412.... Sixteen were built (8 by Bell / 8 by Agusta). Agusta built an additional 5 with a follow on of 4 with a mission suite variant for the Turkish Coast Guard --- so a total of 25 were built.

The engine was the PT6T-9 which uses a derrivative of the same FADEC (Pratt & Whitney refer to it as an EEC) that is used on the 427 and the 429. The thing had kick-ass OEI and hot-high performance.

The cockpit used the Rogerson Kratos 6x8 inch MFD displays. These were the first generation of the displays now in the Bell 429. Both of these displays were a far cry better designed than some of RK's EFIS /IIDS stuff that I've heard people lament about on this site. One of the reasons it was so much better was because it was they had a totally different design team for the large MFD. The next generation of the 412 RSAF display system (with Improved resolution display glass, TAWS TCAS improvements, improved video performance for FLIR, EVS, cameras, etc) is now in the Bell 429 avionics. Bell calls the overall avionics package the "Bell BasiX Pro" system (It uses RK displays built, with a Bell-designed autopilotand aircraft systems interface, plus a Honeywell flight sensor package ) The "BasiX Pro" system in the 429 retains all the search and rescue capability that existed in the RSAF.

The RSAF 412 was displayed at the HAI show in Dallas in 2002.

Bell has considered completing civil certification of this 412 variant in the past. It was originally announced as the 412+ in 2001, A later version with the 429 improvements (called the 412 Generation 5) was discussed with the press by previous Bell CEO Mike Redenbaugh. But both these efforts were later cancelled.

[rainbrave]

Just to update, in addition to 9 AB412EP (same version of Bell 412RSAF) 6 AB412EP (TCG Version) have been contracted to AW and 5 of them have already been delivered and last one will be scheduled in march 2009. These 412 helicopters are equipped with PT6T-9 EEC controlled engines(with high OEI capability compare with -3 engines), Kratos Integrated Avionic System with 4 (6x8 inch Active Matrix Lycid Cristal Display) displays controlled by Dual Channel Data Acqusition Unit and integrated with all engine / systems parameters, avionics, navigation system (including TCAS),
and additionaly Honeywell 4 Axis Autopilot System, 360 degree radar on top, FLIR, Hoist System.

TCG has been operating these helicopters fully satisfactorily since 2002.

Bahrain has contracted to Bell for same configuration 412 helicopters. I know AW is not willing to manufacture any more 412 helicopters because AW139 compatitor of Bell 412 has very good orders. I hope Bell continues 412RSAF grogramme.....

Any questions are wellcomed.....:O

[coptor doctor]

OK guys well I just stumbled onto the site. I am in Calgary Alberta with Our 412 HP from The National Research Council Canada.
Eagle Copters Calgary and us are in a coopertive agreement to do the STC for the T9 install. Bell is not involved in the program why we have no Idea. If anybody could provide us with Pictures Of the RSAF 412 It would be much appreciated we are looking for some engine pictures specifically the Cam mixing boxes and ducting for Bleed valve and belly band venting..Here are a few pictures of the work started..Hopefully have it done by October


http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr35/coptordoctor/T9/IMGP2168.jpg

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr35/coptordoctor/T9/IMGP2173.jpg

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr35/coptordoctor/T9/IMGP2172.jpg

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr35/coptordoctor/T9/IMGP2185.jpg

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr35/coptordoctor/T9/IMGP2186.jpg

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr35/coptordoctor/T9/IMGP2183.jpg

Again Guys If anyone has pictures of an rsaf or Turkish coast Guard please send them on!!
This is a Great project and will make the 412 a really great machine!

[coptor doctor]

Come on some one out there must have some pictures?

[Senior Pilot]

copter doctor,

Welcome to Rotorheads :ok:

It is worth remembering that this is an International forum, and many others will still be abed around the globe while you are waiting on a reply. Even a few days could be expected for a specialised answer to a question such as yours: maybe you can tell us more about your project?

[piggybank]

Interesting info. Has Bell also improved the time normally taken to change out a power section or twin pack?

[noooby]

Nope, just the same!

[coptor doctor]

Lets just say we are totally not impressed with Bell and their lack of interest in making the 412 better so we have came to Eagle Copters Calgary to have this upgrade..

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr35/coptordoctor/T9/IMGP2203.jpg


http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr35/coptordoctor/T9/IMGP2192.jpg

Here are a few more pictures of the T9 engines sitting in place..

[212man]

CopterDoctor,
what's that belt driven device at the rear of the MGB?

[spinwing]

Mmmmm ....

...... what's that belt driven device at the rear of the MGB? ....


Looks suspiciously like an Air Conditioning compressor drive ....

[noooby]

Copter Doctor, I think Bell figured out that a heavier 412 with the same power was not what the customers wanted. The electrical wizardry for the engines took up quite a bit or room, and added weight, for no appreciable advantage over the old -3DF engine.
Reliability wise...... there wasn't any real change. Not having to change N2 actuators was about the only thing you didn't have to do anymore, but that was offset by the stupid flight idle set up that now had an idle stop on the way up as well as on the way down. :ugh:
Are you going glass cockpit at the same time? There will be lots of wiring just for the engines, so why not go the whole hog and put screens up front?? :E

[coptor doctor]

Yes your right that is an airconditioning unit made by Aircomm, Great unit very cool and we only installed half the evaporaters, As far as the increased weight we are seeing none. The engine comes in Lighter than the 3BE also the pluses of No govenors at all No actuators to beep no P3 filters no Jackshafts no heated airlines. The eec weigh in at 3 pounds a piece very compact mount under the engine on the forward bay wall aft side of the fuel tanks. We are not going Glass as we have Our own displays that we put in and take out depending on the project we are doing at the time.
Only glass we are going to install is a small display to display the Fadec or I guess in this case the eec faults and the 30 minute OEI info. just the bare minimums that we need. I hear that the RSAF 412 was at HAI in 1998 did anyone happen to get some pictures?

[piggybank]

copter doctor to quote you..."This is a Great project and will make the 412 a really great machine!"

Surely you are taking the p**s. The 212/412 gives me a living because so much has been shoe horned into what was a great airframe from the 205. If time could be wound back I reckon Bell should have put maximum effort into making that twinpack into a quick change unit.

Target time would be like the Puma, say an engine change in one hour with one man on the engine removal and one on the winch, or am I wishing for too much.

[snotcicles]

Karl?, (copter doctor?) If thats you, pictures of helicopters are that last thing I thought you would use the internet for...:} ps. I'm still waiting for my bottle of rye from QC. lol

[coptor doctor]

Piggybank I think you are asking way to much.. The regulations to have separation between twin pacs is a tough one to fix on the 412/212.
My first love is also the 205.. But I have now seem to be slowly changing to the Eagle Single you want to see a beautiful machine with lot's of Balls and very simple systems this is it!! A 205 with a -17 and a 11,200 gross does not get much better than that!!

[piggybank]

Hi, I stay with my remark that much more effort should have gone into making the engine changes easier. When you pay millions of dollars for a helicopter it would be nice gesture on the part of the manufacturer to make some features good. A small extension/plug in the area under the engines would have made access easier around the Gillette designed firewalls, and Bell could have claimed greater tail rotor authority at the same time.

[coptor doctor]

Still no one out there with some pictures of the T9 install?:ugh:

[coptor doctor]

Show up in Calgary I have your Rye..:O

[coptor doctor]

Still no one out there with any pictures of the RSAF install?

[Over Controlled]

Well folks have asked several times in this Forum whether there was such a thing as a 412EP with FADEC and a Glass Cockpit, looks like Bell is finally going to do it. (hopefully it doesn't go like the Bell 417.) Here's a link to the press release.

Bell Helicopter - FBell 412EP Evolution Continues (http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en/company/pressReleases/PR_10_1215_412EP_Evolution.cfm)

FORT WORTH, TEXAS (December 15, 2010) - Bell Helicopter, a Textron Inc. (NYSE: TXT) company, today announced its plan to extend the capability and performance of the widely respected Bell 412EP helicopter, which will be available to customers in 2012.

A Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) project that will extend the wide range of missions that can be performed by the 412EP is currently underway. This STC consists primarily of an engine and cockpit upgrade and will be available in 3-axis and 4-axis options.

"Upgrading the capabilities of the 412EP is part of Bell Helicopter's overall focus to revitalize the products and support we provide to our commercial customers. It is one more example of our commitment to providing the mission solutions needed by our customers," said Larry Roberts, Senior Vice President, Commercial Business for Bell Helicopter. "The Bell 412EP is the most versatile and reliable aircraft in its class - appropriately known as the 'workhorse of its class'. The 412EP's increase engine power and a modern avionics suite will accommodate a wide range of mission applications. Our customers told us what they need and we are delivering," said Roberts. The engine upgrade, in partnership with Pratt & Whitney Inc., provides a 15% engine SHP increase, improved OEI and Hot/High performance and introduction of Electronic Engine Control. The upgrade will yield a 10-12% increase in CAT A / PC1 & PC2 performance, increased hot / high capability and provides a path for a future upgrade for increased range and payload.

The cockpit upgrade will provide a modern 'Glass Cockpit' - leveraging the well received glass cockpit of the new Bell 429 by utilizing hardware common to that aircraft, specifically Display Units. This will provide commonality in the cockpits of Bell's light twin and medium twin aircraft, simplifying pilot familiarity and maintenance training.

"Leveraging features of the highly successful Bell 429 makes sense as we work to bring improved technology and capabilities as well as increased value to our commercial customers," said Roberts.

Other upgrades planned for the 412EP platform include a Tail Rotor Upgrade that eliminates the need for pre-flight visual inspection and a Communication System Upgrade that will be compatible with civil standard headsets, eliminating the need for military-style, low-impedance microphones and earpieces.

The first Block Upgrade to the 412EP is available now and consists of the BLR FastFin™ System. This is a cost effective performance enhancing modification for single rotor helicopters and when installed on the Bell 412EP, it will increase altitude performance providing more tail rotor effectiveness resulting in enhanced low speed and hover controllability.

The BLR FastFin™ System increases HOGE and HIGE performance limits and expands the lifting capacity of the 412EP, providing more tail rotor reserve authority, improving hover stability, high/hot performance, crosswind capabilities, and payload, while reducing pilot workload and lowering operating costs through fuel savings.

Earlier this year, Bell earned an STC for the FastFin™ System installation on the Bell 412EP, which has been certified by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) through Bell Helicopter's Organization Designation Authorization and has been validated by Transport Canada. The STC includes a Flight Manual Supplement that allows operators to take credit for the resulting performance improvements. Foreign validation in other jurisdictions will be in place early in 2011.

[spinwing]

Mmmm ....

Well its about friggin time eh? :D





BUT .... with aircraft like the 139 about ... who is actually going to buy it?

[Over Controlled]

What's the status on Eagle Copter's project? Someone told me it had been stopped - at least temporarily - because they ran out of time on the NRC 412. Were they planning on offering this as an STC for the general public, or just an experimental for NRC?

[coptor doctor]

WE are back in Calgary full speed ahead. We temporairly were on hold due to getting screwed over by RK.
We are now it looks like in direct competition with Bell.. LOL Ya right.NOT!! When this is finally complete Eagle will have an STC with the T-9 install as well as a Cobham glass cockpit 4 displays on a separate STC.
We had to reinstall the 3BE engines as we had client commitments we had to deal with. the software had a huge overun time and decided to get some stuff out of the way.
3BE's are out now doing some roof mods and trying to get a handle on wiring and glass dispaly installs.
The Eagle projet is alive and well and will remain that way unless something unforseen happens.

I would bet that the Bell upgrade will go the way of the L-4 or the 210 way over cost and time.. Will post some pictures when I have something to add other than what was posted previously..
Stay tuned..

[HueyDog]

I am hearing the improved Bell 412EP will be available from Bell at the end of 2013. This will include the PT6T-9 engines with EEC, BLR Fast Fin, Strakes and MFD cockpit. Initial deliveries will be conversions from standard 412EP configuration done at Piney Flats until the assembly line at Mirabel is converted to the new configuration. That will make the initial deliveries more expensive than the later deliveries with everything done in Mirabel.

The improvements to performance will be pretty much as Over Controlled posted above.

[coptor doctor]

Well if you know Bell what they say and what they do are along way's off
They are makingan improved 412 EPI is the designation.
When it will be available and for how much who knows.
They are sticking with Rogerson Kratos Crap. More because of previous contracts than choice
Eagle is still full speed ahead we hit a road block with Cobham. that is why the set back.
Basically last year when we were told they we working full speed ahead there where doing pretty much nothing as thier plate was overflowing with other projects
They are no on board and moving at a good pace. We are hoping to have our 412 back in Calgary early spring next year.
The engine install has been completed and all the bit's made and installed.
We then removed everything and went back to standard till the dispalys and software is ready. We are flying full speed ahead in ottawa with our test pilot cholls and other clients.
I am actually in Calgary right now with our 205
We are under going a whole new wiring glass display and dual hydraulic upgarde.
We are looking at putting a dual Collective servo in as well. Wether it gets STC is up to eagle. On our flight permint it does not matter to us.
Possiblly a Garmin 500 or Aspen glass display not sure yet if Garmin it will be an STC
Agin the cost of the bell 412EPI will be pricy and this is only for new production aircraft this will not be an STC
unless my informants are lying to me.. So I guess stay tuned I will give an update on the 412 Eagle upgrade when i know more..
Cheers..

[Avnx EO]

From Heliexpo:

Heli-Expo 2013: Bell unveils two new variants - News - Shephard (http://www.shephardmedia.com/news/rotorhub/heli-expo-2013-bell-unveils-two-new-variants/)

:=Well I gues that answers the nay sayers of whether Bell would actually do it. It's certified. :D So what happend to the Eagle STC that was supposed to be there first?

[coptor doctor]

Yes I am at HAI and I see the Bell 412EPI
Wait and see what the Eagle Copters version looks like it will be way cheaper and better no Rogerson Kratos is a big plus.
As well call Bell and find out how much their upgrade is? Oh Wait it is only available to EP's Hmm leaves alot of older versions with no option.
I must say the Bell EPI is a sweet looking machine and long overdue.
We have had some huge software hurdles that are being addressed now and are hoping for Flight testing to start in early 2014 Stay tuned

[ice_pilot]

hi guys

am flying this ( 412 EPI ) or as bell name it ( RSAF 412) helicopter since 2004

its great helicopter , am lucky to fly that machine :ok:

[benhur64]

Does anyone know the TBO of the PT6T-9 ? I heard 4,000 hours but is there any upgrade planned ?

thx

[coptor doctor]

Ok guys been awhile since I posted.. We are nw back in Calgary with our 412 full speed ahead.. Hoping to be flying by June.
It has been a long haul thanks to little help from Bell and less from Pratt.
As you all know the 412EPI is out from Bell.. At what cost scary.. upgrade available nope.. Of the line only .. They went the STC route to get around certification of a new type however they are only doing the STC at Bell and only new off the line.. Go figure..
Any how Eagle is ready to roll as is Cobham.. We have the displays in Calgary on the bench wiring harnesses are 60%.
I am here working have the engine ready to pull tomorrow panel has been removed. Let the wok begin.. Make sure to stop by HAI Anaheim and chat with Mike O.. Or Spyke They can fill you in on the details.. And yes will be available to upgrade all 412 models Ours is an HP we have or are electing to have a Flight director installed at this time as well.. We also will be having a 5th display between the 4 Pilot display for special Mission and symbology displayed.
On Route to Calgary typical Canadian weather in Jan.
http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr35/coptordoctor/20140113_1524502_zps202f6e2f.jpg (http://s467.photobucket.com/user/coptordoctor/media/20140113_1524502_zps202f6e2f.jpg.html)

Engines coming out yet again..

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr35/coptordoctor/20140118_165251_zpsf4548b1c.jpg (http://s467.photobucket.com/user/coptordoctor/media/20140118_165251_zpsf4548b1c.jpg.html)

Panel on the bench..

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr35/coptordoctor/1536686_10153700357060207_698948167_n_zpsac4c2956.jpg (http://s467.photobucket.com/user/coptordoctor/media/1536686_10153700357060207_698948167_n_zpsac4c2956.jpg.html)

and the Aircraft sans panel.. Lot's of work..

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr35/coptordoctor/1609600_10153700361005207_1143963556_n_zps232d7516.jpg (http://s467.photobucket.com/user/coptordoctor/media/1609600_10153700361005207_1143963556_n_zps232d7516.jpg.html)

[coptor doctor]

Stay tuned Ground runs carrying on.. Hope to Hover By week end will post pictures soon..