ormond beach training

[adam75]

hi everybody in these days I m thinking about oba for some time building (100h more or less) and for jaa cpl ( i will get IR directly in EU) I d like to know if there is somebody who has been there recently that can give me some info about the school. ok I know there is no perfect school. but if all in all it works well or if not

thank y very much

a

[matthewB]

When I was there the school seemed more geared towards tuition rather than hour building. Hour builders were continually frustrated at the lack of planes and scheduling. When they did get a plane it was because the weather was poor which precluded any decent time.

I don't know really, just what people were saying. Plus I think there are a lot more schools out there that aren't JAA that do hour building cheaper.

[vlieger]

I did some hour-building there and while all the bad press about OBA is generally true, I had a great time building hours. I recommend sticking with the Warriors, which are in decent condition and have better availability.
But knowing what I know now I would consider going to one of the schools in Daytona Beach, where you can rent planes much cheaper.

[dmcna]

Hi,

Just did a 100 hour building package with OBA before Christmas. Had done the PPL there also and don't really have anything bad to say about them. Did my hours in the Warrior which are old and reliable. Managed to get the 100 hours done in around 25 days, lost only two days due to weather. If you're prepared to keep your head down and do 5-6 hours a day when the weather is good then you should be fine. Hours in the aircraft are given out by means of a bidding system, if an instructor wants an aircraft they will of course get preference. The dispatchers will however try to get you all the hours they can. Things tend to be a lot quieter at weekends so that's when you'll get most of your flying done. All in all I haven't really got anything bad to say about OBA. Having been there for the PPL and going back a year later for hour building I can say that they have really turned themselves around, a lot less crap to deal with than before. My advice is go for it, fly all the hours you can get and enjoy the view.

[overclock25]

In Florida you can rent an airplane for very cheap prices (4900$/100h!)....if you want to know more about it, I can give you some contacts of the owners of these airplanes...PM :ok:

[civil aviation]

Most are positive and happy with OBA so beware of silly and contradictory comments like: 'while all the bad press about OBA is generally true, I had a great time' ! The place is geared-up to allowing customers to fly as much as is safely possible so, although a few fools will always pick fault, reasonable people should be pleased by OBA prices and standards.
Of course and as the plugger points out, you may find hour-building rental which is, apparently, cheaper than OBA. However, do beware because many of the offers are a complete con and/or crap e.g. don't include taxes, third party insurance or fuel surcharges. You might be alarmed, also, about the (lack of) maintenance. The aircraft at OBA are well-used but no-one credible has ever criticised their engineering and safety standards.

[felixflyer]

overclock25, vlieger.

Could you pm me details of the scholls you know that rent cheaply? I looking to hour build 50 hours or so so it doesnt have to be JAA.

[wobble2plank]

I rented a warrior for 50 hours at OBA a fair few years ago, after a few initial frustrations explaining that I wasn't a student (4500 hours) I was given the keys to the aircraft, a key to the main gate and told to triple click a freq to get the airfield lights to turn on at night.

That was it.... left alone, aircraft was mine for two weeks and, although not a looker (hated those purple seats!) was mechanically sound.

Fabulous scenery.....for about the first 2 days then disappeared off down to Miami and over to the Gulf coast. Much more fun.

Enjoy, don't let the senior instructors brow beat you, you are, effectively, renting a car.

[Daniel777]

Hey there,

Does anyone have any recent experiences with OBA?
I am mainly interested in ME and CPL training.
Things like aircraft and instructor availability, housing ,duration of ME+CPL etc

Also experiences with EFT or OFT are appreciated!


Thank you,

Daniel

[sicky]

I got an auto-quote from their website for PPL completion and night rating and it seems very reasonable, their website is informative about what is/is not included and what you need to do to go over there.

I dropped them an email almost a week ago now and have yet to hear back despite a promise of a reply within 24 hours, so i've tried calling them and the numbers are 'temporarily unavailable'.

Any clues? Doesn't seem good, but they've been highly recommended to me by someone who went over for PPL completion about a year ago

[EchoMike]

Saw your note regarding "temporarily unavailable" and made a quick inquiry. Problem is, of course, we don't phone ourselves (maybe we should) and didn't know the phone service was down.

Turned out to be a technical problem with the outside phone provider, and it is fixed. Give a ring Monday - we'll be happy to talk with you. Don't know why the e-mail wasn't answered, I've had legitimate messages to me wind up in my spamcatcher, I've had my answers wind up in the recipient's spamcatcher, and that's just me, my personal e-mail, not OBA items. I'm not the IT tech, I do the PPL ground school . . .

And best regards to all my past students who may be reading this!

Echo Mike

[sicky]

Thanks - pm received. Glad to know it's all OK there and will certainly give you a call on Monday

:ok:

[3REDS]

Is the old dog AT still in charge over there!! If so I wouldnt touch it with a 10ft pole.

[grob master]

AT is definately still around. There is also a new constable called steven fisher. (chief flying instructor and examiner, seems strange???). During my stay in florida I was not impressed one bit with the quality of training or organisation of the curriculum. There is no structure to the program there whatsoever. I would not reccommend any dealings with this company. I found out when I was there that they are not issuing any refunds for students that do not fininsh their training or decide to quit and go somewhere else. I personally found this to be true when I decided to finish my training with OFT. They refused to refund any of my money even though I had only done 12 hr flying and had paid upfront(big mistake) for a entire ppl package. I also found out that I am not the first person they have done this to. They are being taken to court by many former students . Do NOT go there!!!

[A and C]

I have no axe to grind about OBA but a good mate of mine used them and had no trouble, what he did observe was a bunch of guys acting like a course at OBA was some sort of holiday and wondering why they did not get finnished on time.

What I would say is look very hard at the USA option with a view to ALL your expences I think that you will find that with the £/$ exchange rate flying in the USA is not now the best overall option (but I would say that!!!)

[mikehammer]

AT is definately still around. There is also a new constable called steven fisher. (chief flying instructor and examiner, seems strange???). During my stay in florida I was not impressed one bit with the quality of training or organisation of the curriculum. There is no structure to the program there whatsoever. I would not reccommend any dealings with this company. I found out when I was there that they are not issuing any refunds for students that do not fininsh their training or decide to quit and go somewhere else. I personally found this to be true when I decided to finish my training with OFT. They refused to refund any of my money even though I had only done 12 hr flying and had paid upfront(big mistake) for a entire ppl package. I also found out that I am not the first person they have done this to. They are being taken to court by many former students . Do NOT go there!!!


I was there way back in 2000. It was the same then. So was AT. Seems little has changed.

[99jolegg]

There was talk of various people taking him to court / that had taken him to court in 2006.

As for the school, it's mediocre if you keep your head down and get on with it. Instructing is variable, some are good, some aren't. Some are just downright unprofessional and unsafe.

Aircraft were very old in 2006, not sure if they've had a fleet upgrade but I doubt it. Cost cutting seemed to be the order of the day from what I saw, from what my instructor told me and from a not so safe experience I had in one of their aircraft! A few more issues surrounding safety...

Value for money seems good, they do try their best to get you through the course (I did the PPL) and those that were doing their hour building seemed to get it all done the way they wanted. Quite a few didn't get through the PPL course when I was there, mainly down to their own performance rather than OBA's though.

Of course, weather is a factor but that's nothing to be laid at OBA's door. Big thumbs up to the groundschool lectures, though. The mysteries surrounding the whizz wheel soon become clear...

[mad_jock]

I saw someone getting a refund out of OBA its dead easy. You just land at Maryland Naval base, when you realise that its not often St Augustine have 50+ fighters parked up you do a 180 on the runway and takeoff again hoping nobody noticed.

After the resulting visit of the station boss to ORM in his personal F16, AT can't wait to give you your money back.

[Pace152]

Mad Jock, I heard that story when I was there in 2005, is it actually true?!?

[TicketyBlue]

Sorry to be pedantic Jock but I think you'll find that was Mayport Naval Base, Maryland is slightly further North! :}

[captain_rossco]

you're not sorry at all! haha
:8:8

:ok:

[3REDS]

AT is known to read ALL posts about his beloved OBA. So be warned or have a shed load of evidence to back up your post or get a good lawyer.

There was a sticky on this a few years back... I assume he turned the heat up on Pprune with his usual charm.

I met him many moons ago when his was incharge (used very loosley) of a previous airline I worked for,he was then and prob is now full of pi## and wind and the type of guy you would never buy a second hand car from never mind letting him play with your professional future.

You have be warned:ok:

[smalltown]

agree once a snake always a snake Where is Ken he was the best AT should try to get him back

[smith]

The naval base is at Jacksonville.

Yes I think AT would boot your ass out the door but hell would freeze over before you would get any money back from him in a situation like that or in fact any other situation. They have a legendary 25% "admin charge" on any refunds they do honour. He probably makes more money from this "admin charge" than he does from his hourly flying rate so is probaly quite happy to boot people out or make things uncomfortable enough for them to make them leave.

[mad_jock]

This happened years ago (2000 I think) before sept 11th thankfully. I would imagine the out come would have been slightly different in this day and age. I haven't flown in FL in years so I do admit my geography will be a bit out.

It will be interesting to see what all the JAR US schools do after the EASA rule changes governing Instructors. Those that are planning to go over after the rule changes should check and make sure you know what your paying for. There might be allsorts of jiggery pokery going on until things get sorted one way or the other with all the operations in the US.

I am glad I don't have to go through training again. It was a mine field in my day but its 10 times worse now.

[grob master]

Seems strange when a perfectly healthy business gets put in the greedy hands of a tosser who cant seem to even control his waistline, let alone a once busy FTO. Has AT lost his marbles? When did it become good practice to hire a manager who is on duty less than 5 days per month?? A smart businessman would know that students talk and this "talk" is how most decide on which flightschool to trust with their hard earned money!! Call me crazy but, I personally would not trust someone that I have personally sued in the past and has bankrupted not one, not two, not three, but FOUR flightschools in the past 15 years. Seems like suicide. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[civil aviation]

Because you use the word crazy and major in personal abuse Grob, or should it be Gob or God?, you may need both medication and a good lawyer.

People are entitled to rational opinions about individuals and it is no surprise that AT's straight talking and straight dealing approach has upset a few liars and nutters. OBA's contract, which is perfectly plain, contains no surprises either for anyone (like a pilot) who is literate because any business offering such great value has to protect itself (and its employees) against cheating and moaning customers who blame anyone and anything except themselves. If you cancel a package, you usually lose 100%- try leaving a Thomson Holiday half way through and asking for a refund ! Thompson's OBA 25% cancellation fee is incredibly generous when they/you have booked their aircraft and instructor time for your course package which you then decide to quit. Also, it was made clear that, if you didn't want to pay for a package or up-front, you could pay-as-you-go. AT said he would actually prefer that as, guess what?, he made more money because it was more expensive since it did not involve any customer commitment.
As for:
Call me crazy but, I personally would not trust someone that I have personally sued in the past and has bankrupted not one, not two, not three, but FOUR flightschools in the past 15 years.

OBA (owned throughout by AT) has been the same business for at least 15 years and could not have been so if it had ever been 'bankrupt(ed)'. Whatever the knockers and nutters say, it defies logic that OBA could be in business for so long, if it were anything other than honest and competent
I find it appalling that PPRUNE publishes libels, on any FTO, by means of obvious lies and damaging innuendo and especially on OBA which has made obtaining a licence possible for thousands of people at minimal expense.

As for what another knocker calls 'booting-out', I've seen it happen and all the other customers, inc. students on the same course, were delighted when the dirty cheat left. The only real pressure I ever detected was directed at ensuring that you got what you had come for. However it does require ability, dedication, honesty and sanity. A few people do not exhibit one or more of these qualities.

[OBA]

Ormond Beach Aviation, Inc., (OBA) welcome any posts on PPRuNe, (positive or negative).

OBA will respond truthfully and factually to any post made on PPRuNe but this can only be accomplished if OBA can access the information contained in their records.

In order to do this and for OBA to respond it is necessary for the individual who posts to provide the following information:

1. Legal Name

2. Course Conducted at OBA

3. Date Course Conducted

It is should be clearly evident to everyone that without the information above being provided to OBA it is impossible for OBA to respond based on truth and fact.

As a result, any posts, (positive or negative), on any thread, (whether about OBA or any other organisation), that is made anonymously, can only be treated in accordance with the general disclaimer published by PPRuNe:

“As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists* to elicit certain reactions.” *"sciolist"... Noun, archaic. "a person who pretends to be knowledgeable and well informed".

It is therefore clear that any reliance on the statements, claims and information contained in any anonymous posts is at best “questionable” or at worst, “simply untrue”.

OBA accepts, as any business should, that they cannot satisfy and please 100% of its customers 100% of the time.

Customer dissatisfaction only occurs resultant from four main areas;

1. Failure by the business to provide the services or goods they contracted to supply.

2. Misrepresentation by the business of the services or goods to be supplied to the customer and/or the cost of the provision of such goods and services.

3. Unreasonable expectations by the customer.

4. A lack commitment and dedication by the customer, (where the services or goods supplied by the business requires interaction/performance with/by the customer).

The best course of action for any customer of any business who feels that they have a grievance or are in any other way dissatisfied with the services or goods they are receiving or have received, (1 and 2 above), should always attempt to reach resolution, satisfaction and closure with the business at the time of the occurrence or as soon as possible thereafter.

It is very “suspicious” that any “genuine” customer with a “genuine” complaint or grievance would attempt to reach a resolution or closure through generally “venting” anonymously on forums such as PPRuNE. Any person with a genuine grievance would have no difficulty in providing their real and verifiable identity.

This type of behaviour clearly leads any reasonable person to doubt the integrity and motivation of any anonymous person making a post.

Additionally, personal attacks/character assignations on individuals are unacceptable in any circumstances whether these are aimed at the customer, business owner or employees.

Again, for the sake of clarity always remember if you are basing a decision on information contained in these forums:

“As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.”

Regards,

Adrian Thompson
President, OBA