Pay Rise on 1st April 09?

[Woody 281]

Does anyone have any inside information on whether we are going to get a pay rise this year and if so at what percentage rise?:rolleyes:

[mad eng]

Yea.

I heard 12.25% for all ranks and 15% on flying pay....................

What do you think??

**** all would be my other guess.

By the time they realise it will be too late!!!

[enginesuck]

I have it on very good authority (P.F.M.A) that this year we will be getting(all ranks) a 5.75% rise 2.75 now and the remainder from July this year. You heard it here first folks....

[Melchett01]

I have it on very good authority (P.F.M.A) that this year we will be getting(all ranks) a 5.75% rise 2.75 now and the remainder from July this year. You heard it here first folks....

And I assume PFMA = Pigs Flying / My Arse ?

I'm guessing that now we are edging towards deflation, the square root of naff all. It won't stop the charges going up by double though. And we will still be expected to do our bit and spend the way out of Gordon's pit of despair.

[cooheed]

Is it now time to keep your savings under the mattress again?

[sunshine band]

With all of the leaflets and posters floating around the stns at the moment telling us that we should stay in the military because of the way that they "look after us":ugh:, surely a poor payrise would make the current retention problem even worse...

SB

[Mister-T]

If the recession (I hate this wooly term - Credit Crunch) continues and we enter into a Deflation period do we all get a pay cut on April 1st?

[Laarbruch72]

During a recession, where thousands are losing their jobs and the country needs to tighten its collective belt, does anyone seriously expect to see a great big pay rise paid out of the public purse? There are some seriously deluded people around here at times. :ugh:
I'm just happy to be guaranteed a good wage for the next few years with a pension at the end of it. It's more than most in the UK can look forward to, poor buggers.

[airborne_artist]

My guess is 1.95%. Enough to make it look like they care, but not so much as to cause grief with coppers, nurses, firemen, teachers et al.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Laar,

Ever thought about approaching PSF or whatever the f@ck it's called today and asking to be down banded or see if you can sort out some sort of pay reduction to salve your troubled concience.................:rolleyes:

[green granite]

Don't be silly, there's no money left for pay rises, Robber Brown's given it all to the banks.

[NickGooseBrady]

I'm just happy to be guaranteed a good wage for the next few years with a pension at the end of it. It's more than most in the UK can look forward to, poor buggers.

Unless of course the current and future Government (one and the same?) **** around with our pensions.

If this does happen then I hope we will all have the good sense to take positive action and not just sit back and tolerate the Government stripping us of what is rightfully ours. I and every one of my peers only remain in service for that pension!

[AR1]

In my civilian workspace (electronics engineering), pay increments & bonuses have been suspended until further notice. There is no time limit on this suspension!

Take what you can get. - or leave and join Northern Rock.

[Laarbruch72]

Seldom: Where did I say I'd like less pay? Or that I have a troubled concience?

If you weren't so busy reading between the lines, you'd see that my one and only point is that nobody can expect a healthy payrise in dire financial times, even more so when it's public servants of any description.

[Bladdered]

AR1 - you must work at the same place I do :ugh:

[2Planks]

Last Years AFPRB was published in early Feb - so assuming they are on a similar timetable this year most of the work must have been done in the Autumn before the true horror of the results of The Noo Labour Project set in - well lets hope so. But for next year....

Regarding pensions, IIRC (and I have long since lost the handy brochure) Armed Forces Pension are Negotiable Instruments which, again IIRC, puts them beyond the grubby hands of current politicians and would involve the overthrow of the Monarchy to effect a change. Stepping aside for someone with some legal training to explain..

[Melchett01]

2Planks - not quite, although I must admit it is tempting to goad them into doing away with our current schemes so we could have a good old scrap with Gordon et al.

Anyway, as for pensions being Negotiable Instruments, unless I have misunderstood, that's close but no cigar.

The Armed Forces Pension scheme comes under a bit of pensions law I believe is called Exceptional Pensions Laws, and the rules of the scheme are set out in prerogative instruments. These are not subject to approval, annulment or amendment by Parliament, but instead derive their authority directly from the Queen. In a related bit of legislation, the 1865 Naval and Marine Pay and Pensions Act sets out exactly what constitutes a prerogative instrument. For the RAF, this means QRs. From that, and assuming things haven't changed, then whoever decides on QRs would theoretically have the power to tamper with the pensions. So I'm guessing that would be the CAS, CDS etc in conjunction with Min State for Armed Forces (and prob the PM given the contentious nature of the decision) making a recommendation for Aunty Liz to approve and implement.

If that is so, I guess it would all depend on what was being offered to those at the top of the greasy pole in order to get their buy-in.

[Biggus]

In slightly more distant times, when the economy was still performing well (or the faults in it hadn't come to light), the UK military was getting annual payrises of about 2.5-3.5%. The government (or at least individual politicians) said they would like to award more, but didn't want to drive up inflation, which had a target of 2%. Meanwhile, civilian payrises could be 4-5% or even more (I remember one ex-military person talking about his 8% payrise in his offshore job). Thus, the civilian workforce was receiving benefits the public sector weren't.

Now, with the economy in trouble, civilian payrises are reduced, or cut altogether, while the public sector will no doubt continue to get something, so the public sector is better off. Public sector jobs are also generally more secure...

Its called swings and roundabouts.

As to the level of public sector pay, with deflation more of a factor than inflation, and the desire to pump money into the economy, you could try to construct an arguement that says the government should give the public sector generous payrises. It will make up for all those years when they, "would have liked to pay more", and help actually stave off deflation....

Of course, I can't actually see that happening!!! There will no doubt be, yet again, a good reason why the government can't pay "as much as it would like"...

[BEagle]

Laarbruch 72, the childish replies by some on this thread show that the posters have clearly failed to grasp the reality that current Armed Forces pay rates and Ts&Cs are actually pretty good - not many in the private sector have such job security or full-term pension prospects.

It is also somewhat insenstive for Armed Forces personnel to quack on about pay rises when others, in the real world, are facing considerable financial difficulties, thanks in no inconsiderable part to Incapability '$hit' Brown and the idiot Darling.

Mind you, I'm darn glad I invoice in €uros...:ok:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Internet/zxzxz.jpg

[spheroid]

Are the Armed Forces now in a position that every year they EXPECT a pay rise....?

I think that this year in particular we should forego our pay rise in lieu of those people who cannot afford to pay their rent / heating bills. After all, we are one of the few occupations that have money left to burn at the end of the month

[Melchett01]

we are one of the few occupations that have money left to burn at the end of the month

We may have job security, but we are also one of the few occupations that don't have LIFE security. There are no guarantees that any of us will arrive home at the end of each day or make it back from an op tour. We make that choice on a daily basis (and before anyone says it - yes you can walk if you so wish), but the point is that we find ourselves in a fairly unique set of potentially lethal circumstances. You can't make direct comparisons between what we do and what the vast majority of the UK populace do and are renumerated for.

[zedder]

The Armed Forces don't actually number that many any more. If it is decided that the Country must reduce the Pension Bill to be paid from the 'Public Purse', then I suggest the first port of call should be the 'legions' of Civil Service or Local Government employees. As Melchett01 said, our supposed Big Fat Pensions are all well and good providing you make it past Go in order to receive one!

[EdSett100]

Arguably, the AFPRB should reduce the married quarter rents if our pay is to remain unchanged. Mortgage interest has reduced, and so has the cost of living in some other aspects, which has increased my disposable income. So, on the basis of equality, our colleagues in MQs should receive a rent reduction, IMHO.

[Tiger_mate]

Utter tosh: FMQ rent did not go up when I was paying 7% mortgage rate recently. You choose who owns the roof over your head. Energy costs for homeowners have gone ballistic in the last 2 years, and the govt would do well to get these costs back to realistic levels. The real vultures at the moment are credit card interest rates, and nobody will buy again until these are brought into line.

There should be a public outcry if the armed forces do not receive a reasonable pay rise. ....and should anybody have any doubt, visit the arrival part of BZN when the walking wounded get off their TriStar, a most humbling experience.

[BEagle]

The real vultures at the moment are credit card interest rates....

This only affects those people who buy things they can't afford. If you consider that interest rates are too high, then don't spend beyond your means!

In the old days, if you wanted something you either 'saved up' for it (remember that quaint concept?) or entered into a HP agreement. Whereas the 'want it now' culture and the irresponsibility of credit card companies in letting virtually anyone have a card have lead to people running up huge debts - which they take for ever to pay off and on which the card companies collect considerable interest fees.

Other countries don't allow such financial irresponsibility. And neither should the UK.

As for a pay rise, I hope you do get something. But perhaps a modest pay rise with a large 'danger' allowance for OOA operations would be more appropriate?

[Tiger_mate]

Thanks for the fatherly words of wisdom, but my point is: Western culture is dependent upon credit and the philosphy of live for today. An element of the solution to the present economic crisis is for people to make purchases, and people will not do that whilst card interest rates are unrealistically high. If the rates are brought down the public will again spend money, and eventually the tide will/may turn.

The oil/petrol companies eventually towed the line under govt pressure, and IMHO this should be extended to the financial sector.

[BEagle]

No - not all Western culture is dependent upon credit! Stupid kids who run up huge credit card bills in the UK would wonder what hit them if they tried to do the same thing in Germany!

Personal debt and the 'Never never' (as HP was once termed) were once considered rather infra dig. Whereas nowadays the concept of 'save first, then spend' is alien to many.

I used to use a debit card until the bank started charging for its use in other countries, so now I use an airline Visa card. My income gains interest (not much now, thanks to Incapability '$hit' Brown and the idiot Darling) during the month, then I pay off my monthly bills at the end of the month by automatic direct debit - and the airline also gives me 1 mile for each £ or € spent....

Anyway, the moral is not to spend what you haven't got - so I hope that a reasonable payrise will make things easier for the Armed Forces over the coming months.

By the way, in what way were oil companies obliged to toe the line under government pressure?

[TMJ]

I used to use a debit card until the bank started charging for its use in other countries,

I believe the Nationwide doesn't charge for overseas debit card use. However, your credit card solution below is better generally.

so now I use an airline Visa card. My income gains interest (not much now, thanks to Incapability '$hit' Brown and the idiot Darling) during the month,

See Best Bank Accounts: Get £100 for switching and 0% overdraft... (http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/compare-best-bank-accounts) and Savings Accounts: Earn up to 3.6%, or 4.6% if you're willing to fix.... (http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/savings-accounts-best-interest) for ways to maximise that...

then I pay off my monthly bills at the end of the month by automatic direct debit - and the airline also gives me 1 mile for each £ or € spent....

Anyway, the moral is not to spend what you haven't got - so I hope that a reasonable payrise will make things easier for the Armed Forces over the coming months.


If not, the UK Armed Forces Moneysaving forum (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.html?f=153) may be of interest...

[minigundiplomat]

Before we get too carried away with the plight of the British public, in the interests of balanced argument, it is worth reminding ourselves that nobody forced them to take out huge mortgages or run up huge credit card debts.

In quite a few cases, these are the same people who have bored us with repetitive anecdotes about the housing market, and how much their house has gained in value.

I do genuinely feel sorry for those who have lost their jobs, due to what is effectively banking industry greed, and governmental incompetence. I wish them the best of luck, though fear it may be some time before we hit rock bottom.

In the current climate, I do not expect a huge pay rise (which is probably just as well) but there will be some who argue, with some justification, that Forces pay has been on the backburner for some time now due to concerns over inflation.

I think a large pay award would be innappropriate given the current climate, and unlikely to retain those wishing to leave anyway. However, we do need to remember that the Armed Forces are not the cause of the Global Financial Crisis that started in America (Is that one word Gordo?), and that our workload and general underfunding continues unabated.

[ASCOT Ops Retd]

That's quite balanced for you, MGD :ok:

[minigundiplomat]

Must be getting old!

[The Masked Geek]

BAE are looking at 3.8%.

[NutLoose]

Can you not simply give some MP's a bung to get your pay issues ammended in parliament ? A bung of about 72,000 pounds should see you right....... now lets see, with the way the armed forces are being reduced, that should cost those of you left about 3 pounds each :=


or am I just being cynical ? :p

As read on another site, this made me smile....

Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas and oil, as well as current market conditions, for the foreseeable future the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off.

[NURSE]

well NHS Nursing is locked into a 3 year pay deal with the Government. Last year it was well below inflation this year (Year 2) it should now be above inflation or so many of my peers beleive. Personally I think that Gordon will renage on the deal as its "not in the countries economic interest" yet it would have been if their fairytale economics had continued and inflation was 5% and our pay rise was 1.75 like last year.

[Talk Reaction]

I can't see us not getting an inflation matching pay rise - the government are trying hard to say they value us and all that guff. The AFPRB recommend the award, they will clearly recommend something at least at inflation and the government would have to ignore that. Not very likely.

Remember the pay cuts and job losses in the private sector are to do with fall off in the level of business - we are busier than we are established to be, doing more without enough people or kit. Gordon knows he would be remembered ass the man who paid soldiers less to get killed......

It wont be much but it'll be better than a lot, and we deserve it, 10 years ago we would probably not have but it's today and right now as I write this some soldier, sailor or airman is in very immediate harms way and is earning a hell of a lot more than will be in his bank on Friday (at opening time, before his wife goes shopping anyway....)

[NURSE]

Agreed but when the tabloids start screaming about overpaid public servants with their index linked pensions and you're behind in the opinion polls guess what a good idea it seams to cut public sector rises. Not of course mentioning it covers Armed forces or front line NHS staff.

[SaddamsLoveChild]

Gents,

With the pre-reported reduction in funds for carriers and other much needed equipment in the Telegraph last week I think we are deluding ourselves if we think we will be given an increase. The best we can hope for is to keep pace with the rate of inflation, but I doubt that we will even get that. It is a sad state of affairs that the politicians havent yet woken up to - more and more of the public recognise our efforts and would support a reasonable rise. The only reason I have money left over at the end of the month is because I am OOA for 6 months and Mrs SLC is living overseas. Were it not for that and we wanted to maintain a reasonable standard of living we would be like everyone else.

Come on Fat Gordon give us what we deserve.

[Grabbers]

Any more firm news on a subject close to my heart? How about 5%? Realistic or pie in the sky?

Also, I have heard RAF ground trades are list 1 or 2. Is there a difference and if so where do I find out online which trades fall into which list?

Many thanks.

Grabbers

[VinRouge]

If the government think they are headed for deflation they are DELUDED!

Inflation has been near or at 2X the target for the past year(CPI), and although faling recently, I reckon is going to rocket in the not too distant future, especially with all the extra cash they are pumping in.

Examples? Recent price of petrol/diesel back on the up

Commodity prices recovering on the markets

Ford and other manufacturers increasing car prices by 10% recently.

Shop price inflation rises in January (http://www.retail-week.com/News/2009/02/shop_price_inflation_rises_in_january.html)


So, where is this goddamn deflation that is supposed to be making my money become more valuable?

Gordon Brown is going to go down as the worst Chancellor in this countries history.

[Biggus]

I know some people on this thread have announced that in these times of recession we shouldn't be getting a pay rise, we are well paid enough, etc... Well, leaving that particular discussion aside for now, and assuming we do get a pay rise, consider this possible scenario:



Last year the AFPRB report was released on Thurs 7 Feb, the equivalent day this year would have been yesterday. Nothing heard so far, not in itself unusual.

However, consider this. The AFPRB, and most public sector pay bodies, use the September inflation figure when taking inflation into account in their deliberations. However, inflation has been falling quite rapidly recently. The next inflation results are due to be announced on 17 Feb. Could the government be waiting until after 17 Feb before announcing the pay award they will actually make in order to make it seem better.

For example, say on Feb 17 the headline inflation figure is now 1.5%, government announce a 1.75% rise for the armd forces, trumpeting it as "...another above inflation pay rise for our valued armed services...". Convieniently ignoring the fact that inflation has been higher than 1.75% for most of the year.

I wouldn't put it past the "spin doctors" of this government. Any thoughts?

[Grabbers]

It seems highly unlikely we'll receive anything more than 1.5%; all the while the extraneous costs outwith whichever RPI/CPI takes the govt's whim this year greatly differ.

[akula]

Not the most reliable source, granted but they reckon it will be

3.2%-3.7% (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-159107/Armed-Forces-pay-rise-list.html)

ALWAYS assume NEVER check

[Sospan]

Agreed see here!

armed forces top pay rise | Search Results | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?pageOffset=&pageSize=&orderBy=dateAsc&searchPhrase=armed+forces+top+pay+rise&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&button=%3CSPAN+class%3Darrow-small-r%3E%3C%2FSPAN%3EClear+all&_contenttype=on&_contenttype=on&button=%3CSPAN+class%3Darrow-small-r%3E%3C%2FSPAN%3EClear+all&dateupdated=&dateFrom=&dateTo=&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&button=%3CSPAN+class%3Darrow-small-r%3E%3C%2FSPAN%3EClear+all&_personnames=on&_personnames=on&_personnames=on&_personnames=on&_personnames=on&_personnames=on&_personnames=on&_personnames=on&_personnames=on&_personnames=on&_personnames=on&_personnames=on&_personnames=on&_personnames=on&_personnames=on&_personnames=on&_personnames=on&_personnames=on&_personnames=on&button=%3CSPAN+class%3Darrow-small-r%3E%3C%2FSPAN%3EClear+all)

[akula]

RUMBLED BIG TIME

Quickly as well, only 8 minutes.
Back to the day job then:{:{

[Double Zero]

I'm unfortunately not in the services, just worked alongside all.

If I was promised a pay review on April 1st, I'd be very worried on several levels !

[adminblunty]

I went to a pay conference this week, one high profile speaker said 40% of FTSE 100 companies would not be giving staff a pay rise this year.

The public sector pay guidance from the Treasury has repeatedly had its release date pushed back from early Dec 08 to mid Feb 09. I think the government are waiting for the latest inflation figures to be released showing a marked decline in inflation, they will then announce a very low pay rise for public sector workers. Given the retention difficulties in the Armed Forces and adverse public opinion I don't think the Armed Forces will do as badly as some groups.

[OmegaV6]

More importantly ... when are the new pension rates announced ?? :)

Not been in this situation before ... :)

[Melchett01]

I think the government are waiting for the latest inflation figures to be released showing a marked decline in inflation, they will then announce a very low pay rise for public sector workers.

So as public sector employees we can't have a big pay rise as that would contribute to inflation climbing above the Govt's 2% target. So surely now there is no danger of that happening and you want to encourage spending .......

Sorry, what's that Mr Brown, you want to eat your cake as well??? Oh you already have I see.

[Vage Rot]

Perhaps we should f:mad:k it up royal and then we'd get bailed out by the government and a big annual bonus to boot. Time to go work for RBS!!

[Grabbers]

The Scottish Cyclops and Thunderbird 6 will surely instigate a dry-bumming of the UK military. With the economy in freefall UK mil recruitment will most likely increase - thereby negating the need for retention measures. Bums on seats laddie, bums on seats.

[22/7 Master]

If the government does change from the Sept 08 inflation figures to a more convenient month then perhaps it is time for the Armed Forces Federation to step in. The Figures for December RPIx- 2.8% CPI - 3.2% are far more convenient than those for Sept - RPIx - 5.0% CPI 5.2%. The government will change everything - date, the indices used for calulation.

The days of blind obedience went with what the politicians call real-term pay cut over the last 10 years (consistant pay rises below RPI).

Perhaps it is time that the most hard working actually demand to take ALL their annual leave and work to PFS and harmony guidelines.

I have said time and time again that the armed forces should be given a bonus each year consisting of the unspent wages of gapped posts ( and desk coverage for maternity leave et al where civvy companies would bring in temporary labour). This small consolation would recognise the extra hard work of our people.

Perhaps the gevernment will simply use contracted Italian workers to replace us.

The view from this soap box ensures the black Omega is clearly visible....

[John Purdey]

OmegaV6. The increase in the State Pension was announced at the end of January, and takes effect from 6 April. The increase was based on the rate of inflation in November. I had thought that Service Retired Pay was calculated in the same way and at the same time. Can someone enlighten us?

[Wrathmonk]

It would appear Service Retired Pay is based on RPI in September.

See thread here (http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/347190-pension-increase-rpi.html).

Edited to add following quote (lifted from The Force Pension Society e-Newsletter dated Nov 2008)


Pension Increase 2009

Your Armed Forces pension will increase by 5% on 6th April 2009. That is the headline RPI for September 2008 announced on 14th October.

[teeteringhead]

And aren't MoD Civil Serpents getting 3-ish% this month ........ backdated to August last year?????? Is that going to affect the AFPRB recommendation.

It seems to me that there is a groundswell in public support for servicemen (the people, not necessarily the policies they enforce), H4H etc etc, that even "Incapability" (excellent epithet BEags) would be bold not to go along with the totality of what AFPRB says....

[SRENNAPS]

And aren't MoD Civil Serpents getting 3-ish% this month ........ backdated to August last year??????

Thats when they should have had their pay rise!!!!!!

Dont try to compare MOD pay rises with Armed Forces pay rises. I can assure you that the Armed Forces have come off a lot better in the last 10 years. (probably longer).

[zedder]

I can assure you that the Armed Forces have come off a lot better in the last 10 years.

Apart from on the Battlefield of course. You just keep shining that expensive big chair of yours with that big.....

[Grabbers]

........fat arse.

[reds & greens]

Ladies & Gentlemen
Back to the thread...
Yes, it's a rumour network - but a lot of us Mil types look here (especially when OOA) for solid gen. What's the % gonna be? :{

[SRENNAPS]

You just keep shining that expensive big chair of yours with that big.....

........fat arse.

Dam right I will. I earned it.

[PRO NCA]

Come on lads we know that good old Gordon does not like us until it suits him so expect not a lot. Maybe we could try to claim a tax free second home allowence of £24003 like his Home Secretary who knows JPA!!!! could accept it. Because no one I know, knows how theJPA works

[Grabbers]

You still are.

[Grabbers]

On an almost on-topic point, does anyone know the difference between list 1 and list 2 trades? I notice on the RAF community website the pay-scales for 08/09 FSs distinguishes between the two. I've never heard of this. Anyone shed any light?

[Jimlad1]

"And aren't MoD Civil Serpents getting 3-ish% this month ........ backdated to August last year?????? Is that going to affect the AFPRB recommendation. "

The CS deal is a 3 year deal, and averages at 3%, but has managed to reduce the pay spine, so more senior staff in junior grades end up loosing money! Add to the fact that they only had 3 years notice of when to sort it out, and the fact that they didnt start negotiating till Nov, its a miracle anything happened at all.

CS pay isn't linked to AFPRB, but its usually a good indicator of where things are heading.

[cazatou]

Granted inflation is not a problem at this time - but all Government Pension and the State Old Age Pension increases each year are based on the RPI for the previous September. Thus these pensions will increase by 5% wef April this year. Any attempt to reduce the increase in these Pensions would be Electoral suicide.

Curbing pay increases for those who cannot protest or withdraw their labour becomes a very attractive option in these circumstances.

[TMJ]

On an almost on-topic point, does anyone know the difference between list 1 and list 2 trades? I notice on the RAF community website the pay-scales for 08/09 FSs distinguishes between the two. I've never heard of this. Anyone shed any light?

List 1 trades have the rank of Chief Tech and used to have JT (how many JTs are there left? Who was the last person to get their 4 props?), list 2 don't. There is an anomaly in that some TG4 trades are still listed in List 1 despite not having promotion to Chief any more. I think this is because the amalgamation of trade groups that formed TG4 is still recent enough to mean there are chiefs from the old TG3 who have yet to be promoted or have retired.

List 1 includes all the eng trades, as noted above some of the CIS trades, the Int trades, most medical and dental trades and the musicians. Everyone else is List 2.

[Grabbers]

TMJ

Thanks for your info. All clear now. Unsurprisingly not the cash rich news I'd hoped for but these things never are.

Grabbers

[KeepItTidy]

Well it would seem the only reason the pay award is not here is the fact the Board who recommend pay used JPA to enter there details thus a bigger delay. JPA im sure asked for more hamsters to turn the computers but even hamster recruitment is getting difficult :ugh::ugh:

[TMJ]

JPA im sure asked for more hamsters to turn the computers but even hamster recruitment is getting difficult :ugh::ugh:

'Tis not hamsters that be the problem, 'tis squirrels...


http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/00000/1000/400/1439/1439.strip.print.gif

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Well, If the 'Delay' in posting the AFPRB report, was based on an 'expected' sharp drop in inflation, their plan may have back-fired. CPI for Sept 08 (The usual metric) was 5.1% and it's fallen to 3%. The RPI, which the gov didn't used to use, as it is typically higher than the CPI, was 5.0% falling to 0.9%.

So, I'll very interested to hear, how they justify a rise of say..... 1.5%

Belts Tightening, setting an example, future inflation trends, all pull together, blah blah blah?

Ofcourse, we should actually get 3-4.5%, which would be fair, but I don't think we will.

Here's hoping,

Advo

[Vage Rot]

Pound to a pinch of pig s:mad:t they will go back to using RPI again!!! They only changed to CPI because house prices were taking CPI through the roof!!

wooooooshhh - there go the goal posts!!!

[hello1]

Running out of time to get the changes on to JPA.

No pay rise = no need to reprogram JPA.:D

[hello1]

Doh, completely forgot that you DO need to reprogram the increase in charges into JPA!:ugh:

[advocatusDIABOLI]

STILL no news! Must be going to be worse than anyone guessed.

Advo

[indie cent]

Uh oh.

Coincidentally (or not), there was an vacancy in the latest Sunday Times Appointments section for the Chair of the AFPRB. One wonders, did the previous encumbent resign?!

[22/7 Master]

Given that my main residence is an aluminium show box in Kandahar, can I claim a second home residence for 'p.m. towers' of £22,100 pa. Seems to work for Jackie Smith.

Will FRI rise from 100k to 138k, or be cut to zero immediately? Both rumours are circulating at the moment!

[LFFC]

Keen observers of the annual AFPRB drama will recall that the 2007 AFPRB report was not published until 1st March. Mind you, that was only after Lord Garden asked the following question in the House of Lords on 26 Feb 07 (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200607/ldhansrd/text/70226-0005.htm):

4:31pm - Lord Garden "With regard to the morale of our troops, this may sound as if it is a long way from operations in Afghanistan, but it will be important to them: when will the Armed Forces Pay Review Body report be published? It is now more overdue than it has ever been, and it will be taken by the troops as a signal of how much the Government value what they are doing."

It's so sad and tragic that we lost such a wonderful figurehead who always fought our case.

[SaddamsLoveChild]

I have asked my MP to ask the question by email as I am in 'a sandpit' and have no mail access whatsoever. The FCO will not support us even though we are here at their bidding. I dont hold out much hope of an answer and dont hold out much hope of a rise.:uhoh:

[KeepItTidy]

Dont quote me on this but Friday the 27th was mentioned a few months ago. Im stabbing in the dark but makes sense, give everyone crap news over a weekend to ponder on it. It cant be beggining of March can it ? Its always last few weeks in Feb

[Finger Poking]

This is great for Morale.... At least when we know the outcome, we will undersatnd just how badly we have been shafted again.

When are they going to release the bad news? Someone must know ?





Come on Tell Us ?

[Hueymeister]

Still nothing on the MOD website...any signals out there?

[22/7 Master]

Huey,

Not yet, but the MOD have announced that they are very good at recruitment and retention. Not difficult in a depression though eh.

It could be spin to justify a less than expected pay award.

[Grabbers]

For what it's worth I reckon the news will break later this evening. Too late for tomorrows headlines to compare and contrast with banker pensions of pounds massive against squaddies peanuts minscule. In any event this post is only to keep the thread nearer to the top so when word is leaked...

[The Masked Geek]

That would rely on them releasing the figures to the press before their personnel.

Mind you, I wouldn't put it past this government.

[Biggus]

The rumour (well this is a rumour website) on another website is that the PM is going to announce all the public sector pay increases in one go, which may be as late as mid March...

Is this a case of spread out, and repeat endlessly, good news stories, but compress, and only state once, bad news...

For those of you thinking they are waiting for the next inflation figures to be published, hoping an inflation rate of 1% will make a 0.75% payrise for the military look good, the next figures are due out on 24 March...put it in your diary!

P.S. - I made up the 0.75% figure!!

[Peter Carter]

I wonder if Gordon listened to Obama's speech at Camp Lejeune, where he promised the hard-pressed US troops a pay rise?

[Lima Juliet]

The Defence Management Board sits this week to decide on PR09 - maybe the MoD are going for the big double-whammy :{

Bend over this is going to smart a bit...

[Grabbers]

Who, and what, are the Defence Management Board? In fact, don't answer as I reckon the answer would vex me. I would guess the words 'Committee', 'Fair', 'Treatment', 'Vision', 'Value' all appear heavily in their lexicography. :{:{:{

Thought so, the DMB vision etc is a spewing of corporate arse. Should the irrational need take you, see here:

Ministry of Defence | About Defence | What we do | Defence Management | Defence Board (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/WhatWeDo/DefenceManagement/DefenceBoard/)

[VinRouge]

Mark my words, CPI will not fall between now and march. Mervyn king and the chancellor are talking out of their arses. Oil has bottomed, the pound will not gain against the dollar/Euro and production across the globe is being scaled back at an unprecidented rate. The Baltic Dry Index is the lowest it has ever been, indicating practically all world trade in 6 months will grind to a halt. No production = decreased supply != decreasing prices.

These metrics do not indicate CPI will fall over the next few months. If anything, they are going to start to go back up. gordons cheeky little 2.5% cut on VAT did little other than reduce CPI to make it all appear as if Inflation is falling. He really has ballsed up our economy.

real pay cuts here we come.... to be honest, I dont really care. Speaking to mates in the City and in industry, I am just glad I have a secure job at the mo. Anything else is but Icing on the cake. :ok:

[EdSett100]

Just checked out the above link. Was disappointed that the 4 Service Chiefs in the photo of the DMB were not wearing their uniforms.

[adminblunty]

Well if you want to know what the AFPRB has recommended for 2009 submit an FOI request to the organisation who compile the report

Office of Manpower Economics (http://www.ome.uk.com/)

or to make it easy

PUBLICATION SCHEME FOR THE ARMED FORCES' PAY REVIEW BODY
Purpose of the Armed Forces Pay Review Body
The Armed Forces' Pay Review Body is to provide independent advice to the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State for Defence on the remuneration and charges for members of the Naval, Military and Air Forces of the Crown.
Requests for information (which must be made in writing, which includes by fax or e-mail), should be sent to Paul Bush, OME, 6th Floor, Kingsgate House, 66-74 Victoria Street, London, SW1E 6SW or by fax on 020 7215 4445, or by e-mail to [email protected],gov.uk ([email protected],gov.uk)

[EODFelix]

After the question "What is the Defence Management Board" just wondered how many out there are familiar with the upper reaches of this Organisation such as the Defence Council, DMB, Defence Ministerial Committee and

[Yeller_Gait]

Was disappointed that the 4 Service Chiefs in the photo of the DMB were not wearing their uniforms.Much as I commend you for being able to identify the 4 service chiefs, I read through some of the stuff that was published on the internet, and it was a load of t**s. All self congratulatory, all is well within the MOD stuff, .................... it is just another waste of money.

And by the way, no I am not bitter, I left a long time ago I just laugh from now on.

Y_G




Edited to add: the last 12 words

[Jimlad1]

While the jargon is pretty dire, how else do you propose to run an organisation with a £36Bn budget, and which directly affects the lives of roughly 350,000 people? (Forces / Reserves / MOD CS etc).

Whether we like it or not, we do need some kind of management structure at the top, or we'd be in even more of a mess than we are already!

[zedder]

we do need some kind of management structure at the top

Couldn't agree more about the structure. Now if we could only work on the competence! What I am getting at with that statement is give me a leader over a politician (or yes man if you want to really say it like it is) any day. The trouble is the type of leadership I'm after generally means that the individual has his legs chopped from under him well before he reaches a rank where he might just be able to make a difference.

As an example of the sort of thing I'm after, this week has seen various grown-ups rushing to try and produce a Stn input to the Gp input to this years Head of Flying Branches Report. Apparently because of a screw-up by a PSO, we had to fight hard to get a very small extension to a deadline in order to at least be able to canvass some of the Stn personnel to find out what the current issues are. Having seen some of the issues raised (both at my Stn and at other Stns) and having read last years final report with annexes from the various AOCs, guess what - pretty much all the inputs are the same as least year.

Yeah there have been lots of placatory noises that MQs are being improved, that getting access to local schools for Service children is being looked into to, that getting access to an NHS dentist is being addressed, that we are trying to reduce the manning gaps to take the pressure off everyone a bit etc etc. But in actual fact, has any issue raised in last years report actually been fully addressed to the point of resolution such that it is no longer an issue. Personally I don't think so.

So give me a leader somewhere at the top that will get things done. One that might decide for example, that if we stop having people swanning off to various parts of Europe studying what happened during various previous wars (because that is really relevent to the modern day isn't it - NOT!), we might just be able to scrape together the money to do something useful.

And relax.....

[Biggus]

So, has anyone tried e-mailing using the link at post 91...?

[spheroid]

So, has anyone tried e-mailing using the link at post 91...?
Why Bother? The report will be published soon....Just wait.

[Biggus]

spheroid,

On the one hand I agree with you, and I haven't e-mail myself, so am not in a position to throw stones...

On the other hand I would quite like somebody in the government/MOD to admit that the report was finished weeks ago, and the announcement is being delayed for political reasons. Still, the chances of the second part happening are.....not a lot!

[Vage Rot]

Zedder, watch the blood pressure mate!

It might be time to do some digging as to the Working Time Regulations!! Just had an email about leave and the WTR. Apparently only 28 days is a right, the rest????

So what about:
Maximum working week?
Irregular shift patterns?
Overnight working/

I think it's all in there somewhere.

Perhaps we could do the sums and come up with an RAF of about 75,000 strong would keep us within the WTR. (or wind the clock back 15 years!)

[airborne_artist]

VR - read this (http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200001/cmselect/cmdfence/29/29ap14.htm) - still sure you can make the WTR work for your case?

[Once A Brat]

AA - sounds doom and gloom, but the real WTR MOD regs as contained in DCI JS15/99 make more promising reading......................


...............provided anybody can them implemented without their bosses waving the direct support to operations flag!


I think the point was, the hierarchy are quick to ensure that we comply with the WTR when comes to our leave entitlement, but not when it comes dishing out the work!!

BTW - I believe will still get 30 days , 28 days as a 'right' and 2 priviledge days.

[Aeronut]

As a result of the working time regulations (presumably from the same eurpean union to which the UK belongs?) the French air force decided they did not want to restrict the working week so in response increased the French annual leave entitlement to 12 weeks.

I say again TWELVE weeks.

Now thats a bit of eurpoean legislation I could live with.

[Grabbers]

Anyone heard/read anything yet?

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Psssssss!!....... Don't Tell Anyone. 2pm Friday. If 'He's' back.........

Advo

[Sospan]

Cynical mode on:

Like they did a few years ago perhaps they are waiting for a media frenzy before releasing the announcement, if Jade Tweed pegs it this week they will have ample cover to release an 0.5% increase, the nation would know no different.

Cynical mode off.

[VinRouge]

This is a good sign...

Arbitration For 2008 Pay Deal Adds An Extra 0.3% For 1.5 Million Local Government Workers In England, Wales And Northern Ireland (http://www.gmb.org.uk/Templates/PressItems.asp?NodeID=98284)

3 Mar 2009
The arbitration panel that heard the outstanding reference from last year’s local government pay negotiations have awarded an additional 0.3% (on top of the settlement already paid last year).
This award is binding and is backdated to 1 April 2008 and brings the total value for last year to 2.75% or 3.6% for the lowest paid workers.


Looks as if it could be a biggie this year! How else are Labour going to spend all that cash they are printing? :ugh:

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Soz Pan,

Are you saying that the continual reporting of the condition of JG's Condition, has an effect on the HM MOD's choice to release a report?!!!!!!!

Hmmmmm, are they that shallow??? NO Are They?


Advo

[Sospan]

Time will tell ;)

[peppermint_jam]

I too am of the thinking that they are waiting for some other news to hide it behind.

As for JG, i for one am sick to the back teeth of her, yes it is damn tragic what is happening to her, but i hate the fact that she's never off the front pages of the papers, whilst our troops are getting killed on the front line, and it is hardly reported.

Die with dome dignity woman, not in my face.

rant off.....

[glum]

In her situation, sod the dignity and give me money so my kids can have a better life than I did (pre celebrity).

[The Masked Geek]

That's the trouble with society's detritus, give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

The only time I will feel any sympathy for this waste product of the celebrity age is when she's dead, buried and out of my face.

Unfortunately, like all diseases, it seems to have spread. Even this thread about our 2009 payrise seems to lack the required immunity.

[Grabbers]

For what it's worth I couldn't give a toss when brain dead no-marks pay to look at Jade in her hour of need. It makes no difference to my life and while it's sad for her children, ultimately it makes no difference to my life. Anyway, what are the odds on 8% backdated to Sep 08?:ok:

[Aeronut]

Sod the human suffering, how much more money am I going to get?

[helo425]

2.6% Just you watch.

[Fintastic]

My money is on 3.6%. ;)

[Spotting Bad Guys]

I've posed the question as to the reason for the delay to my MP (Douglas Hogg). His office wrote back - by letter - the following day to say he will be asking Bob Ainsworth and will report back ASAP. Maybe they DO work for us after all....:rolleyes:

SBG

[advocatusDIABOLI]

The PM is up in Scotland for a conference, so I guess my 'tip' was wrong! at least I did say...'If he is back'.

Maybe next week then. If it's bad news, it will be Friday, or, any other day provided there is enough worse news to hide it under.

Advo

[ExJAFAD]

The payrise should be announced on the 16th of March with the rest of the public sector.

My feelings 2.5%

[SIXTYRULEOK]

I've just been to ask PSF and, after a couple of phone calls, they're saying that the AFPRB still haven't released anything and are currently projecting that they will be ready to announce on the 22nd, however they said that the announcement may even slip until after April 1st - which to me seems ludicrous!

They also said that the scribbly rumour network was saying 3.5%, 2.75% in April, the rest in July. But like I say that was rumour mill stuff and maybe duff gen.

[Twon]

Stuff the pay rise; I'm happy to have a job in this climate but anything extra will be a bonus. My main problem is that we are the only(?) public sector workers who have their increase in charges announced along with pay. What other landlord would get away with less than 1 month's notice of increases in rent? I want to know how little my pay rise is (below inflation), how much the charges have increased by (above inflation) and how much I am then out of pocket by for the next year or so.

Time for us all to write to our MPs; just concentrate on the charges aspect rather than pay.

[Megawart]

So the Bank of England is looking for ways to inject cash directly into the economy (Quantitative Easing).

Surely they must already know just how quicky members of Her Majesty's Armed Forces can turn a retention bonus or financial incentive into an LCD TV or other shiny consumable product.

Hell I've seen squaddies buy and sell a new car within 2 weeks of pay day. I'll bet you if the treasury spent its 75b Billion pounds on a huge military FFRI, we'd have turned the lot into piss within a week...and then some! Every garrison town in the country would become a mini Mayfair overnight.

Is there no-one thinking outside of the box up there...anyone?

I'll get my coat...

:ok:

[Grabbers]

Megawart,
:D:D:D

Proper made I laarf. All for FRI's across the board and, I suspect, so will the nation in the fullness of time.

[Lima Juliet]

I hear a rumour that the AFPRB 2009 is done and sitting waiting for release, however, the Senior Officers (2* and above) PRB has been thrown out for re-draft and they want them to release them at the same time.

Don't know if it's true...

[Bunker Mentality]

2.6% pay rise and 1% increase of the 'X' Factor.

[JackRyan]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0fDbfFFcyvb4B/610x.jpg

Many were sceptical at the board members selected...

[ADVOCATE_56]

I always thought it was called the "X" factor because it was unknown. :ugh:

[RAF_SARGE]

Really at a loss now to understand when HMG are going to smuggle out news of our distainful pay rise this year. Incapability and his chums really must hold us in the lowest esteem.

[Biggus]

Bunker....

I would suggsest, not for the first time (WMD anyone...?), that Int is wrong.

2.6% and 1% on X factor is what we got LAST YEAR. I would suggest people have been searching for AFPRB details, and not picked up that what they found was actually details of the 2008 pay award. See below, the first one I came across on google:

Pay Award 2008 (http://samteam2div.co.uk/Payaward2007.aspx)

[BEagle]

The retention thingies which came out in the 1990s went into my savings account - as did most of my terminal lump sum.

Although quite a chunk went into ISA and PEP accounts linked to the FTSE-All Share. That was such a good idea :rolleyes: - and I thought that the government was encouraging people to make provision for the future in this way. But that was before Incapability Brown and Darling the Idiot allowed the greed of the banks to expand unchecked.... So those funds are now effectively locked in until the City stops flapping about like an old hen and gets back to traditional values, rather than loadsamoney short termism.

All we've seen under nuLabor is utter failure, the surveillance society and nanny-state restrictions in every aspect of our daily lives. Plus deeply unpopular military adventurism; the general public supports the UK Armed Forces unquestioningly - but there is scant support for nuLabor's abuse of their services.

Of course the Armed Forces deserve a pay rise - but it is unlikely to be a significant rise, thanks to this so-called government.

[BEagle]

The fact that I elected to become a Specialist Aircrew officer is nihil ad rem.

In 1997, Brown allowed the FSA to get into bed with greedy bankers, overturning the established prudence of the Bank of England.

The culture of saving seems to be lost today's society of greed - people are encouraged to borrow and spend money with little thought for the consequences.

Anyway, I see little chance of the Armed Forces receiving a substantial pay rise this year, regrettably.

[cazatou]

Now, if we had a competition between AIDU and BEagle as to whose posts we would prefer to read - I wonder who would win?

Pilot or Cartographer - difficult choice (NOT)

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Caz,

There are 2 assertions in post #130, are either of them factually incorrect?

[cazatou]

SFFP

BEagle & I both suffered under the Command of the PCL - so I guess we have a certain affinity borne from that experience.

Anyone who does not wish to read his posts can easily (at the press of a few keys) elect not to view them.

I see no need to descend into denigration.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

You seemed to be hinting at it in post #132

[advocatusDIABOLI]

LADIES!!! Hand Bags! Please!

Everyone is obviously a bit tired and emotional about the delay. Now, the real question, irresepective as to the quantitive amount of the delay, is WHY?

Some have suggested 'Political Timing' as the cause, others; that reports were rejected. I would surmise that all is not well upstairs, and several posts here hint at this.

I don't personally expect good news, but this year is forging new ground in lateness! (Beagle, I've only been in since 87.... sorry)

In my (limited) experience of political stuff..... Nothing Happens Without A Reason. Nothing. So, What is the reason? (I Truely hope it has nothing to do with Ms Goody or is that Mrs 13425678! Soon to be)

Bottom line: Beyond Late..... and somebody knows why, and it's been thought out.

Advo

[Faithless]

I'm starting the betting....
I bet it's 3% for lower ranks decending to 1.5% Snrs and Officers :8.

Bets on the table please.

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Faithless,

I truely hope you are right. But, I would go for 1.5% as you described.

Here's hoping! Oh, by the way, any guesses as to NEXT years? Has there ever been a Mil Pay CUT? Based on inflation??

Advo

[VinRouge]

If we get negative CPI over the next 12 months I will eat my flying helmet.

Food inflation is indicating close to 10% PA at the moment AFTER the VAT cut; with cyclops's money printing plan turning sterling into toilet paper, I think the spectre of negative inflation is a way off yet.

[Wensleydale]

My worry is not the pay rise. I listened with horror as our PM stated that a fat cat banker would not receive his £650,000 pension even if it was currently not legal to prevent it. I expect that the current crop of egos who attempt to run the country will have the law changed - no doubt with public support - to deny a failing fat cat is his lucre. However, will this precedence in law then allow them to change our pensions at whim as well? I dispair!

[BEagle]

I suggest you take a look at the PPRuNe Ts &Cs before you post any more insulting remarks, Mac.

Of nuLabor, this article in the Torygraph is pertinent:

Britain 'nation of form fillers watched by quarter of world's CCTV cameras' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4958034/Britain-nation-of-form-fillers-watched-by-quarter-of-worlds-CCTV-cameras.html)

[Finger Poking]

Gentlemen.... Please.

We are going to be, lets face it, shafted by this Idiotic Government who couldn't run the Isle of White, let alone the British Isles. We don't win votes so we are not important to be looked after.

Besides, the country (or at least the Media) are more interested with Mrs Goody and her slow painfull death. And she's suffering also.

The sooner this bunch (and Jade) have gone, the better. What Moron votes for Labour anyway?

But that doesn't mean we need to turn on ourselves ! :=

[Finger Poking]

Why is the Fat One-eyed Scotish Pri*K keeping us waiting?

Who seriously has any respect for the these Fuc*ing clowns in government? What a joke they are.

When are we going to get the bad news !!

[thirtymill]

I suggest you spend less time worrying about any pay award you may or may not get and count yourselves very fortunate indeed to be as well paid as you are in the current climate of global recession. As for FRIs, surely most of you are doing the job you dreamed of doing since a young boy and are very fortunate to have realised that dream. I'm sure that most of you are extremely well paid for what you actually do and as previously stated in the current climate of mass unemployment, low saving rates and homes being repossesed you should be grateful for what you have.
So stop worrying, the AFPRB will release the news when it has been checked. Be happy for what you have; it could be a lot worse!!
:O

[spheroid]

Goodness me Finger Poking.....Calm down dear. Whats the rush ?

[endplay]

A cold dose of realism wouldn't go amiss here. The financial world is screwed and anyone in a relatively secure job should be thanking their lucky stars, not whinging about "derisory"pay rises! Having not long left the I RAF can assure anyone still in that the grass outside is decidedly less green than you might think. If you are in a job that you enjoy (mostly) and are paid a wage that you can live with then you are in a beter state than the majority of the country.

[thirtymill]

Agreed it seems there is a lot of whinging on this thread...be happy and get over yourselves! You are paid your worth no matter what you feel you deserve.:ok:

[FFP]

Not strictly true 30mil.....650,000 pension and failed banks come to mind but I get your general point :ok:

[Griz]

That arguement is fine if, during the boom periods, we reap the rewards as well.

And because someone enjoys their job is no excuse to avoid paying them appropriately.

[Finger Poking]

Griz, I agree.

Thirty whatever, I agree about the retention incentives, especially as the ones of us taking them are the ones who intended on staying in anyway.

As for paid our worth? Tell that to the gingers, maintaining Aircraft and paid the same as the Adj. Paid fairly, I think not.

[spheroid]

Are you suggesting that we pay the gingers more...? They don't work hard enough to get a pay rise.

[Finger Poking]

Spheroid you have spelt your name incorretly.

Its Hem, the first 3 letters and not Sph.

[spheroid]

Good post. A post where you were (incorretly) commenting on my spelling and were (incorretly) commenting on the spelling of spheroid.... Oh dear....of dear, oh dear .....(tee hee)



Just to put you out of your misery.... There is a C in Incorrectly


and you spell Hemorrhoid with 2 R's and an H (you may find it easier to call them Piles or Grapes....those words are easy to spell)

Good attempt at banter though.

However, in all seriousness. Should we pay the maintainers more?

[Finger Poking]

Yes we shud pay them moore.

Compare the lvel of risponsibility of an Adj Adminor who has not much geater to do than screww paye up, to that of say a Sooty installing an engine or a rigga inspecting flying controls or an armouror saying a Rocket Chair is going to work.

No comparison.

They should not be getting the same as the pen scribblers (keyboard tappers). They also work harder in the modern arena what with the lack of spares, doubling work as they canabalise one for another constantly.

P.S.
Spell chick do'nt wirk too well.

[Twon]

As I've mentioned before, never mind the pay rise/freeze, what about the increase in charges that are surely on their way? and chance of finding out more than 2 weeks before they become effective?

[Biggus]

There are those in the past day or so who have effectively been saying that we are well paid aircrew, with secure jobs in a recession, and shouldn't be moaning about when the pay review comes out...

To a certain extent I can understand and agree with that arguement. However, the pay review effects ALL members of the armed forces. Some 200,000 (ish) odd people are waiting to hear the results, a not inconsiderable number.

The resounding silence that seems to be occurring (not so much as an announcement of when a proper announcement will be made), considering we are well past the day when statements have normally been made, seems to imply a lack respect/interest/courtesy/care for/in the military.

As for everyone in the military being well paid, I believe in the latest Ross Kemp documentary on Afghanistan he is talking to a soldier at one stage, in the middle of a two way range exchange, who tells Ross that his wife works in a call centre and earns more than he does.....

[Griz]

AIDU

Do you ever post anything that is

a. funny
b. relevant
c. appropriate

[Grabbers]

Griz

Don't feed it. Please don't feed it.

[FCWhippingBoy]

Back to the thread ...

Two schools of thought on this one ...

1) There is a recession and money is tight so we're probably not going to get anything major this year.

2) We are stretching our manpower to the limit fighting two wars abroad so we should get all the money in the world.

We can discuss those two points till we're blue in the face, it doesn't change the fact that it is not our decision and whatever we think is not going to change the decision of those who are making it.

In any case, I don't care either way right now, what I would like to know is ...







... when are they going to release the damn report then I can stop checking the MOD intranet for news everyday :ugh:

[Mister-T]

Did the AFPRB get binned as part of PR08? ;)

[strek]

Rumour has it that it will be next week at the earliest, and that it will not be disappointing.

Quite what disappointing means I do not know.

Strek

[formertonkaplum]

They have spun 2.6 and 3 % as good in recent years so..........

1% !!

[Grabbers]

Griz

I hold you responsible for the post above. Leave him/her alone and hopefully they'll go back to catatonia.

[Griz]

Grabbers

Sorry!

Schoolboy error. My bad! :O

[St Johns Wort]

'They armed forces..........'

From the West Country dopey?

[JessTheDog]

Statement made in Parliament at the end of 2008:

Armed Forces: Pay Review Body
Statement
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Baroness Taylor of Bolton): My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Defence (John Hutton) has made the following Written Ministerial Statement.

I am pleased to announce that I have appointed John Steele, Mary Carter and the Very Reverend Graham Forbes as members of the Armed Forces Pay Review Body, each for a three-year term of office commencing on 1 March 2009. These appointments have been conducted in accordance with the guidance of the Office of the Commissioner for Public Appointments.

Maybe this explains any delay - three new members.
Maybe there's lots of arguing going on!

I hate the RAF and I'm going to PVR....oops did that ages ago! ;) I've still got my OxPat shoes (over 10 years out of that pair!), no-one's filled them to my knowledge.

[Bob Viking]

As much as I'd like a payrise and firmly believe that I'm worth every penny (and then a bit more), the simple fact of the matter is that it should be spent on operational allowances.
There are limits to how much the salary of your average squaddie can be increased (everyone above would need more money to maintain the status quo and there just isn't the cash).
The fact remains though, that your average squaddie (before anyone gets on their high horse, I'm using the term generically, I know there are lots of other people who spend alot of time OOA) who spends alot of time in dusty sh1tholes getting shot at deserves a little more financial recompense than they currently receive.
Increase the operational allowances and you target those most deserving of more cash.
Simple.
BV :8

[faarn]

"I hate the RAF and I'm going to PVR".

I too hate the the RAF and I'm going to PVR, but I'm in the Royal Navy. ;)

[OmegaV6]

Jess ....

".........each for a three-year term of office commencing on 1 March 2009...... "

indicates they started working 12 days ago .. and you want an answer now ?? ;)

".... Maybe this explains any delay - three new members.
Maybe there's lots of arguing going on! ..... "

Methinks you have found the members of NEXT years board ???

:D:D:D:D

[dallas]

As much as I'd like a payrise and firmly believe that I'm worth every penny (and then a bit more), the simple fact of the matter is that it should be spent on operational allowances.
There are limits to how much the salary of your average squaddie can be increased (everyone above would need more money to maintain the status quo and there just isn't the cash).
The fact remains though, that your average squaddie (before anyone gets on their high horse, I'm using the term generically, I know there are lots of other people who spend alot of time OOA) who spends alot of time in dusty sh1tholes getting shot at deserves a little more financial recompense than they currently receive.
Increase the operational allowances and you target those most deserving of more cash.
Simple.
BV http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/nerd.gif
Agreed. The folks on ops should get the cash, both as a reward and as compensation - those enjoying screened tours and/or malingering shouldn't be cashing-in on public symapthy for the hard-pressed forces; that's not to say we're not hard-pressed at home, but ops is where we're doing the business. Dare I say, this might also widen the gap between those who can't/won't/don't and those who always meet their commitments.

[22/7 Master]

I have heard a rumor of 26 March for the announcement.

I have also heard the FRI is being closely looked at in the current options round. FRIs have never been popular with the Treasury and they can cite increasing recruitment and retention as a rationale to drop them.

Notwithstanding this, the military pay award has been below the RPI for more than 10 years. What does this mean? Every year our standard of living has been dropping, especially in the context of above-inflation increases in energyl, council tax, housing and food. We become largely blind to this because we receive increases in the form of increments, promotion and AFPRB awards. You need to compare the purchasing power of your rank ten years ago to that of today.

So What? Every year a career in the military less and less attractive, whilst we continue to be asked to do more and more - egged on by FRI, Op allowance, LSA et al. FRIs and Op Allowances, whilst pleasant, are just sticking plasters. The bottom line is the military salary is woefully below where it should be.

Also, I wouldn't retire before 2020 if you want a decent pension. Quantitive easing will cause circa double digit inflation for a significant period commencing in the next 5 years. You are quids in if you have a mortgage though - look to those long-term fixed rate deals.

I don't hate the RAF/Army/Navy-I want to stay in. But I do wish to be fairly recompensed for what I do and I don't think we are at the moment. Should we be expected to work for peanuts because we enjoy what we do?

If there was a PPRUNE in the seventies I expect exactly the same argument would have been raised in 1978/9. It wasn't until the double digit forces pay-rises of the early 80s that the military got back to a living wage.

Nothing will change whilst the current neo-socialist regime is in power, but I suspect on the now-inevitable change in government there is unfortunately nothing left in the pot for us, except a convenient location to urinate in.

Also, how many of you have been given reassurance or an explanation by chains of command as to the delay in announcing the pay award?

Rant over,

[StewardNo4]

The lack of news regarding our pay is yet another example of the government playing politics with a working persons pay.
Surely all personel play a part in getting the military job done and therefore should be rewarded with a pay rise that at least keeps up with inflation over the financial year!!
Rant over....:ugh:

[Lima Juliet]

I can't find the words for this Government so I will use sign language instead...

http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/image.php?u=7017&dateline=1231877086

[Grimweasel]

Whilst I agree that the military should be financially rewarded for the hard times they face on ops etc, I think it would send completely the wrong message to the public who are going through an equally, if not more daunting prospect of mass unemployment and job cuts.

This financial crisis has a long way to go yet and when you compare the markets to the last big crisis (1973/4/5) there are striking similarities. The current rally in stocks is only a bear market rally. The secret to making money in bear markets is to short the rallies. The Dow could see 5000 and the FTSE 2500 before all this is over. There is just too much ugly news to come from company balance sheets. Who'd want to buy shares for a dividend that is very likely to be cut?? No, me neither!

As was mentioned above inflation will rear it's ugly head and your diminishing money supply will buy less and less. We are in a very privileged position of being paid by the taxpayer - as long as those taxes keep coming in.

There is even scope for the BoE going cap-in-hand to the IMF for a loan as the country could default on it's debt (same as when Labour were in last time).

I'm just glad that Gordon Brown's chickens are coming home to roost whilst he's at the tiller -reap what you have sowed Brown!!

So, if we don't get a good rise – just be thankful that we still have a job and money coming in to put food on the table. Just look at your history books – The Great Depression 1930s. This time there is scope for it to be much, much worse as the levels of toxicity in the debt markets are still largely unknown.

[Biggus]

A couple of points:

Firstly, as I have already said, the next set of inflation figures (Feb 09) are issued on 24 March. They are likely to be very low, with RPI possibly even being negative. A low pay rise for the military, say 1%, announced shortly after low inflation figures, say -1%, will look good to the GENERAL PUBLIC!!

Secondly, and alternatively (grassy knoll theory coming up), the government may play a subtly dufferent game. There is talk that all public sector pay increases will be announced at once. That is A LOT of people (over 1 million in the NHS alone). There is due to be a general election in the next 15 odd months (May 2010 is the latest possible date I believe). So this is the last chance the government will get to create a good impression before the election, in terms of a pay rise at least, of a couple of million voters. Therefore the pay rise might be reasonable???

[Aggro]

I'm interested to see what inflation measurement they will use this year. For the last few years they've been using the CPI because it was lower than the RPI but the last figures I saw published were 3.1% CPI and 0.1% RPI in Feb!

My money is on a 2.5% increase, despite the downturn, as there is a retention issue everywhere due to overstretch which is recognised right at the top - CDS said so on Andrew Marr's show.

I'm hoping my increase in quarter charges are delayed as suggested by a previous thread, too!

Ever the optimist:O

[dallas]

Secondly, and alternatively (grassy knoll theory coming up), the government may play a subtly dufferent game. There is talk that all public sector pay increases will be announced at once. That is A LOT of people (over 1 million in the NHS alone). There is due to be a general election in the next 15 odd months (May 2010 is the latest possible date I believe). So this is the last chance the government will get to create a good impression before the election, in terms of a pay rise at least, of a couple of million voters. Therefore the pay rise might be reasonable???
I don't think this concept is too outlandish. Moreover, giving the public sector relatively chunky pay rises will be broadly popular (clawing back some votes), while injecting some spending power into the economy. I'm not saying the latter point naturally follows - many might simply opt to bank a rise - but the VAT-reducing naivety of the government probably leads them to believe people will take their 4% straight to the high street. Ultimately, the government needs to change the national mood as a pre-cursor to recovery (and in their eyes, re-election), and I think they'll opt for votes, disguised as a rescue measure. Ironically, this may very well prove to be smoke and mirrors, as the subsequent rise in inflation as a result of more cash entering the economy will neutralise the pay rise, but it'll look good, IAW Labour's history of empty gestures.

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Just a thought on inflation:

Is the pay rise designed to compensate for inflationary pressures over the preceding year, or predictively compensate for expected inflationary pressure expected in the comming year?

Either way, we 'should' get a reasonable award, as inflation was high all last year, and as been explained, is expected to be so again!

Just a thought, but realistically, they will probably just use the lowest possible figures that they can justify.

In terms of job security, etc my view is aligned to the poster who mentioned that there is no such consideration for us when the private sector are enjoying better times. A few years ago, service personel were actively discriminated against in getting mortgages, due to their (percieved) circumstances (Moving etc).

Although we may enjoy what we do, and are offered a relatively stable income, this comes at a personal cost of; reduced freedoms, danger (for some) commitment and limited rights. Many of the general public, would neither consider or accept our terms of employment. So simply, why should we 'take one for the team'? The 'team' sure as hell didn't and won't take one for us!!

Advo

[dallas]

I'm not sure what the formula is, but suggest it's a hard and fast rule when it keeps the cost down, and a case of 'unique circumstances call for unique solutions' when we might benefit just a little too much from historical arrangements. That said, pay isn't the thing that's pissing off the forces, and any high award is probably akin to the VAT decision - quick headline, but ultimately wasted money - however, our short-termist government would like to inject cash into the economy, which can be done through banks lending more money, but that doesn't get as many smiles as pay rises.

[thirtymill]

:=As this is an aviation forum I thought you might of had the intellect to work out that when we commented on being well paid it was in relation to Aircrew and not the rest of the military. So as stated before BE HAPPY for what you have; an amazing job to be proud of, self respect and worth and a hansome pay packet. If you are not happy then leave and see what the real world brings you!

Also guys I have to say that when you consider what the average infantry soldier goes through on operations, for the pay he receives, you might want to stop harking on about FRIs; it is slightly disappointing and as stressed before inappropriate in the current climate. You are bright and choose this job and I am sure that when you stood on parade and were presented your wings that the last thing on your mind was money; just pure pride! (Stand in the mirror and ask yourself what became of that man the next tie you feel hard done by).

SO BE HAPPY:ok:

[Mister-T]

Wise words Thirtymill :D

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Thirtymill,

Yes, many years ago, I stood and got my wings, yes, I was full of pride and would probably have done it all for nothing. But, life and reality changes. Now, with wife, kids, a house and mostly rising costs to look at, forgive me, but I have a different view. I don't begrudge any other personel either their lot, or their view, and I truely respect and admire everyone involved in close combat ops....... but,

We ALL deserve to be paid 'relatively' what we were last year. Note I said ALL of us. It's not greedy, unfair or crass to say that.

So, please, ditch the rose tinted specks. Retro-thrust, and return to earth.

Advo

[penny pincher]

Infantry currently getting FRI's......cos they are under manned. Pride doesn't put food on the table. And I LOVE my job. In case you were wondering.

[anita gofradump]

Let's hope the above puts AIDU back in his box..........:rolleyes:

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Not sure why PP's post would put AIDU 'Back in a Box'?

Seem's to me, that PP's comment that 'Pride, doesn't put food on the table', rather echos my sentiment? Don't you think?

If I'm wrong, I'll stand by to be corrected.

Advo

[LFFC]

Given the data in the Written Answer on Armed Forces: Manpower (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmhansrd/cm090311/text/90311w0003.htm) given in the House of Commons 2 days ago, I would expect that this year's Armed Forces pay settlement would be a good one!

[Been There...]

The second page, for the RAF, doesn't make for good reading...

The problem is that most people aren't that pissed off with the pay, they are pissed off with the lifestyle that has changed massively in the last 10 years...a payrise, I personally don't think, will make that much difference to the people who will be leaving anyway.

[Finger Poking]

Why?


Couldn't see anything in that babble to suggest a decent pay increase?

[LFFC]

Have a look at the SoS's statement (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200708/cmhansrd/cm080207/wmstext/80207m0001.htm) when last year's AFPRB report was published (my bold at the bottom):

7 Feb 2008 :
The Secretary of State for Defence (Des Browne): The 2008 report of the Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body (AFPRB) has now been published. I wish to express my thanks to the chairman and members of the review body for their report. I am pleased to confirm that the AFPRB's recommendations are to be accepted in full, with implementation effective from 1 April 2008.

In line with the AFPRB recommendations, the basic military salary for officers and all other ranks will increase by 2.6 per cent. In addition, the AFPRB has recommended an increase to X-factor of 1 per cent. and a restructuring to increase the amount of X-factor paid to officers at Lieutenant-Colonel, Colonel and Brigadier (and equivalent) ranks.
The rates of specialist pay (including flying pay, submarine pay, diving pay and hydrographic pay) will also increase by 2.6 per cent. The Government have also accepted the AFPRB’s recommendation to introduce additional targeted financial retention incentives for Nuclear Submarine Watchkeepers, Army Vehicle Mechanics, Royal Artillery, RAF Regiment Gunners and Firefighters and a new category of specialist pay for Explosive Ordnance Disposal personnel to tackle specific recruitment and retention issues.

Given the wide spread of manning shortfalls that now seem to exist, and the number of different FRIs that this seems to call for, it just seemed to me that a decent pay rise might be a lot easier and less divisive. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[penny pincher]

"Why do you think the pilots were getting FRI's? Duh!!!!!Not because they were undermanned but because the airlines were recruiting"

Aaand therefore creating a manning problem as people left. Hmmmmm:ugh:

"I take it from that comment you are in the infantry? Well you made the decision to join so don't blame me"

And why would I blame you?:confused:
U know what they say about assumtions.

[WildRover]

Salary isn't the problem with the Armed Forces.

Inflation is all that should be offered on salaries.

Why have Flying Pay - tie it in with salaries and then the Final Pension will be improved?

If money is going to be thrown at the Forces - spend it on hardware and accommodation.

[Biggus]

WildRover,

What value of inflation, RPI, CPI and I think there is a third value......??

Measured when, which month of the year...??

Traditional the value of inflation in September of the previous year is used as the baseline for comparison in public sector pay.

I believe the value of inflation in Sept 08 was about 4%.

So, using your logic, I'll have a 4% pay rise please.

I bet you the AFPRB recommendation is much lower than that!!!!

P.S. RPI Sep 08 was 5% (that is what military pensions will go up by!)

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_economy/RP04.pdf

CPI was similar:

National Statistics Online (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?ID=19)

I'm not suggesting we should get that amount, just pointing out the consequences of your suggestion!!

[St Johns Wort]

Shouldnt waste time with AIDU mate, cant see why he would be interested in armed forces pay, the grass being so much greener on his side of the fence.

[MaroonMan4]

I have been watching this thread from overseas,some good posts - others I wish to distance myself from the contributors as far away as possible and question if these posters are actually in the military or just stirring the pot to get a bite (no names, no pack drill).

But can someone please help with this question that I am having great difficulty in understanding.....

Why all of sudden is the Private Sector now looking enviously at my job security, my stable wage and my pension when he/she has fallen on hard times, and yet only 3 years ago the Private Sector was looking down its nose at my mediocre salary, my mediocre Ts&Cs and quality of life and as to not getting bonuses, that was just an alien concept to the Private Sector.

So just because BT, BA and all of the of the other 'big' corporations are willingly advertising pay and bonus freezes and asking for a review of the Public Sector pensions, then why is anyone listening to them and pandering to their whimpers that 'it is sooooo unfair'?

Many of these corporations dished huge bonuses, have I ever said that it was unfair your Majesty can I too have a Christmas bonus for my 2 operational tours this year.....no. Did I spend spend spend my 'hypothetical' bonus on second homes, fast cars and expensive holidays....no.

So where has all of this money that was dished out to the Private Sector in high salaries and bonuses gone? Why should I be made to feel guilty because I am doing exactly the same as I have done for years?

Does this mean if I do get a pay freeze or my pension gets raided to appease the masses in the city and provide 'Government leadership' then I sincerely hope that when we do come out of the recession and the city goes back to its old ways that I too will have a voice inParliament that will see the city 'share' its good fortunes with the Public Servants (Police, Fire, Nurses, HM Forces etc etc) that have just done their job without all of the bling of bonuses and exceedingly large salaries.

Please help me, as this to me this is fundamental issue that obviously I am being thick about.

[Door Slider]

Maroon Man,

I could not agree more, and as already stated on this thread the public sector have had the least posible pay rise for years while Brown was being 'prudent'. During which the private sector was reaping the rewards of a thriving economy. Whilst our jobs may be more secure than the private sector at the moment our payrise will still be miniscule. The public sector are always on a loose loose whilst at least the private sector wins sometimes!!!

[Griz]

MMan4

Exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. Rough with the smooth in the private sector and same old, same old with us. IE ANNUAL PAY RISE PLEASE!

[The Transporter]

AFPRB 2009 will be not be released before Fri 20th Mar 09.

You heard it here first ;)

[WildRover]

Hi Biggus,

You won't 4 or 5%. 2 or 3% if you are lucky would be my guess. However with the economy in decline - maybe 0 is more realistic.

Not the words the military want to here - but the honest words.

Best

Wildman

[Biggus]

WildRover,

I don't expect 4 or 5%, neither did I say we deserve it.

All I was trying to point out (and I wasn't having a dig) was that saying something like, "...inflation is all that should be offered on salaries...", is actually far more complicated than it at first appears.

Anyway, whatever is actually announced, I'm sure Mrs Biggus wll have no trouble spending it....:O

[VinRouge]

Economic calendar | financial calendar | Forex economic calendar (http://www.dailyfx.com/calendar)

UK average earnings are announced by national statistics on Thursday.

I bet they are waiting to see how they pan out to justify public sector settlements, then do them all in a one-er.

Good news is the predicted wage settlement for Jan is currently at 3.5% (non bonus) which will do me fine!

[Biggus]

VR,

I make that Wednesday....

[Finger Poking]

Anyone for today ?

Really surprised this info isn't out yet . . . and the fact that people who will be in the know about the award or the release date are keeping quiet.

FTP

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Maybe there is NOTHING to announce! But, more likely, it will be on a Friday. That will be a BIG happy hour, as countless JPs and JNs (and others) 'get them in' before it's 50p a squirt!

Does anybody need more evidence that this shower are just mindless, money grabbing morons?

Advo

Friday 20th it is then............. maybe.

[norfolkandchance]

2% is the maximum it will be as it is not allowed to be above the rate of inflation. It will come out very soon

[Biggus]

norfolk....

At the risk of repeating myself endlessly (read post 198 - why do I bother), when you say "...it is not allowed to be above the rate of inflation....", WHAT RATE OF INFLATION ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, AND WHEN?

2% is the governments TARGET for the rate of inflation, not any particular rate (RPI, CPI) at the moment. Further to show your point is not valid, last year's pay rise was 2.6% on basic pay, and the governments TARGET rate of inflation then was also 2%!! So we have already had a pay rise above the governments target once, and it was only last year.....!!!

[standrews]

I know the goverment budgeted a 2% annual rise for HM Forces pay in the last '3 Year Public Sector Spending Round'. So anything above 2% comes out of other MOD budgets, like last years!

[scan]

At this rate it will take JPA until Christmas to catch up and give us the pay rise!!

[norfolkandchance]

Trust me this came from the top, come back and thank me when its announced

[Len Ganley]

BIGGUS

WHAT RATE OF INFLATION ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, AND WHEN?


It will obviously be the rate of inflation which is lowest at the time :sad:(RPI,CPI, whatever other measurement they care to use) to ensure the lowest possible rise, thereby incurring the lowest cost to the public purse, whilst allowing them to claim that HM Forces have had a rise which is in line with inflation.

[Paragl]

Armed Forces: Pay: 16 Mar 2009: Written answers (TheyWorkForYou.com) (http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2009-03-16a.263810.h)

Great comms - How does such fit with investing in people!

[SSN]

Extract from Hansard 16 Mar 09

Armed Forces: Pay

Patrick Mercer: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence on what date the Armed Forces Pay Review Body submitted its 2009 report on armed forces pay to his Department; and when his Department plans to publish (a) the report and (b) its response to the report’s recommendations. [263888]
Mr. Lidington: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence on what date he received the report of the Armed Forces Pay Review Body for 2008; on what date he proposes to publish the report; and if he will make a statement. [263810]

16 Mar 2009 : Column 829W

Mr. Hutton: The Armed Forces Pay Review Body submitted its report for 2009 to the Prime Minister and Secretary of State for Defence on 29 January 2009. The Government intend to make only one public sector pay award announcement this year and this will be made in due course.

[Lima Juliet]

Mr. Hutton: The Armed Forces Pay Review Body submitted its report for 2009 to the Prime Minister and Secretary of State for Defence on 29 January 2009. The Government intend to make only one public sector pay award announcement this year and this will be made in due course

I repeat my standpoint for the hard-of-reading...

http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/image.php?u=7017&dateline=1231877086

[cazatou]

With 30+ years of experience regarding "Pay Rises" during my years of service I recognise the phraseology in which the Government statement is couched.

Any increase in pay will be "Clawed back" in charges for accommodation, messing, provision of free Medical Services, sports facilities etc.

I joined in 1965 and my daily rate of pay as an Officer Cadet (before Tax and National Insurance) was 17 shillings and 3 pence (86. 25 P) per day. In 1978 as a Flt Lt I received (due to inflation) nearly £200 a month - before food and accommodation charges.

"Prudence" will be the watchword this next year.

How well do you know your Bank Manager?

[Aeronut]

Get some time in!

[cazatou]

Aeronut

Perhaps you would like to enlighten us regarding your experience?

I freely admit that my flying experience only totalled 7730 hours - most of which were on 32 Sqn.

[Notmyreallogin]

Steady on, Caz. At 30+ year of service, I think it's safe to say Aero had his tongue in his cheek. Suprised you missed that after 30 years of banter.

NMRL

[FFP]

If I had a quid for every time I check this thread thinking there's some actually news and there isn't, I wouldn't need a 2.6% pay rise ;)

[Jumping_Jack]

Interesting.....defensive lines being drwan up to refute 'paycut' accusations.....

[unclenelli]

Did anyone else get a letter from PAX Insurance about the increase in charges???



Over 20%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reading the small-print they-re underwritten by AIG!!!!!!!!!

Opting-out as soon as I'm back from OOA!!!!!

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Caz,

Yes I know my 'Bank Manager' well, he's called Ahammed, and lives in a call center in Bangalore. We often chat, as he regularly calls me to offer all kinds of things! (Usually at 6.30pm during dinner). I did accidentally visit my local branch recently, but was quite surprised and relieved, when it turns out it has been turned into a StarBucks. Still, the double Mocca was lovely, but they were seriously over charging for the muffins..... is this 'new angle' the cause of the credit crunch?

Advo

PS- Report 29th Jan....... Today........ Bast**ds!

[roony]

2.9%...........according to some bloke in the mess.

[Gnd]

12.4% according to Mrs Gnd's requirements!!!

[Wrathmonk]

Apologies, slight thread drift however ....

Unclenelli

Sadly, I understand the reasons for the premium increase is due to the number of claims it has paid out in recent years (certainly that was the reason for the last hike).

And not wishing to teach you to suck eggs but before you cast PAX aside do get replacement cover in place and read the small print very carefully! There aren't many insurance companies out there who will give life/injury cover for war/terrorism (which is what most, if not all, insurance compnies consider TELIC/HERRICK to be). In the same way a lot of the High Street holiday insurance policies do not cover you for cancellation of holiday due to Service needs/war etc.

FFP

Sorry to get your hopes up again! If it helps I think the pay rise should be the same as the Armed Forces pension increase for 2009 which IIRC was based on a September inflation figure (don't ask me which kind!) of 5%. However, I won't hold my breath!

[Dak Mechanic]

Just heard that the pay remit (the lump of cash that gets divvied for the public sector) hasn't been decided and that HMG is getting jumpy because some sectors got multi year deals which now look terribly expensive! Pay budgets have been set back to April but things are getting tight because the Nurses, Armed Forces and Police pay review bodies are due to report in soon.

As a Simple Serpant, I'm expecting SFA to be honest. Besides all the money has gone to HBOS etc to pay the bonuses.

[Aeronut]

"freely admit" is one way of putting it.

Openly bragging at every post because you want to impress the internet might be another way.

Well done though. :}

[cazatou]

Aeronut

You do seem to wish to go out of your way to insult other contributors to these treads.

You labelled me as a "TURNCOAT" because I live in France -a Country I visited often On Duty with the RAF. My user name, however, is the name of the small Hamlet we live in which (according to the latest historical research) was the most forward outpost of the English Armies in SW France during the Hundred Years War.

I am happy to assure you that the English still own 70% of the property here.

I can only assume that your application to join the RAF was rejected because of your manifest unsuitability (something you demonstrate with every post) and you now wish to belittle those who have honourably served their Country to assuage your anger at rejection. If I am wrong in that assumption then I would most strongly suggest that you seek Medical help as a matter of urgency before your delusions take a stronger hold and lead to a situation which could lead to unforeseen consequencies.

[Aeronut]

I think you might need some medical attention yourself for that blood pressure - calm down man! As has been asked already, how did you serve 30 + years yet avoid banter entirely?

My delusions are what exactly?

You live in France - you left the United Kingdom of Great Britain behind.
Most servicemen visit many, many countries in the course of their duties but that doesn't mean its right that they should move there AND expect to have a say in the country they left behind.

My poke at you started with your apparent annoyance at not being able to vote in the UK, which I considered a little rich, since you have left! That along with your need to tell everyone how many days you served and how great you obviously are!

I just googled Cazatou and lot 46 looks amazing. Enjoy it, I don't blame you.

Au revoir mon ami.

[unclenelli]

Wrathmonk.
I did say I'd be opting out as soon as I return home.
What I won't be doing is paying out those rates for the 18mths I'm at home in Blighty awaiting the next trip to the sandpit, where chances are, I'll have no option but to fork out for their cover - but for 4 months only!

I did mention it -despite thread-drift- as it is another charge we end up paying out for, even those of us lucky enough to possess a mortgage.

At least when I was paying food & accommodation on top of my mortgage, and diesel at £1.35+/litre, they were at least regulated by AFPRB, unlike PAX which is down to the whim of AIG.

[Finger Poking]

Is your real name, Richard Cranium ?

[cazatou]

FP

A shade too subtle I fear.

[strek]

FP

Very good.
:ok:

[Talk Reaction]

On the subject of increased life/ injury insurance premiums - aren't we entitled to claim back any excess premium due to the risks of our jobs??? I seem to remember something like that on life insurance for aircrew....

With regard to the pay increase (or lack thereof) and charges going up (undoubtedly), I for one am in a quarter, and whilst it's not the best quality in the world and my landlord seems to still think it's 1970 regarding tenants rights, I am paying a LOT less than market rates for accommodation so if it does go up by a few percent more than my pay I really don't feel I'd have a leg to stand on by complaining. Remember also that most of us get a payrise every year by way of increments - most civvies get one annual payrise....

Before the knives are thrown, I agree wholeheartedly that MOST servicemen and women deserve to be paid more full stop, especially those at the lower ends of the payscales, who it must be remembered make up the majority of those being shot at and blown up on a daily basis for less than minimum wage and some even on income support - now that is wrong :mad:

[Gnd]

Unfortunately, that was the loading for aircrew - not an exorbitant price hike

[LFFC]

BBC News - 5 Jun 08 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7437014.stm)The prime minister says the government will do "everything in our power" to help members of the armed forces, after criticism of how much they get paid.
.
.
Mr Brown said: "I recognise the huge contribution that our armed forces make to the security of the country and we will continue to try to reward our armed forces for the dedication and commitment they show, often in very difficult theatres of war".

"We will do everything in our power in the years to come to recognise the great individual contribution that is made by all the members of the Army, the navy, and the air force."

He said that the most junior grades received a 9% pay rise last year, "and that is an indication of how we wish to help the people in our armed forces".


Well, I guess we'll soon know.

[Gnd]

Jeez - keep it down. If Mrs Gnd hears 9% my life will be heller than it is!!!!! lets stick to 2% or nothing!!!!

[Biggus]

LFFC

Great link, apart from the fact it is from June 2008. The 9% pay rise for the lowest ranks was two years ago now, and the quote from Mr Brown was before the credit crunch arrived, with "...need to tighten belts...", etc, etc

[LFFC]

Biggus,

Very true, and that's why I put the date in the link - I didn't want anyone to be confused. But Brown made those comments only 9 months ago - not 2 years ago!

Yes, it was before the Credit Crunch, but the principle remains the same; the PM said that the government would "do everything in our power" to help members of the Armed Forces. They seem to have a lot of power to inject vast sums of money into the banks, reduce VAT, and the less said about "quantitative easing" the better!

So let's wait and see just how much they value the Armed Forces.

[cazatou]

The 1975 pay rise was the pay rise "we would never forget".

Well, they were certainly right about that - particularly as it was accompanied by a major redundancy package - one that put anything since WW2 in the shade.

Worse than that was the effect on the training and experience level of those that were left who had to cope with inadequate equipment, poorly trained personnel and extremely limited supplies of spares and reinforcements. The result was that the personnel who could be relied on to do the job did not maintain currency whilst hundreds of hours were wasted on people who should never have got that far but "the system" insisted that there was no such thing as a "Bad Student" - only "Bad Instructors".

Those who think I am "gilding the lily" should consider the fact that some of those who were made "Redundant" in 1975 were back in "Harness" 3 years later in a higher rank whilst the Aircrew were left with the same Aircraft & Weapons and a reduced expertise amongst the groundcrew.

It cannot be too long before a General Election is called and -whilst it would be totally improper for us to attempt to attempt to influence the General Public with scare stories - there is, however, no bar for those who are interested in Defence matters and who could perceive that current policies are misleading.

HMG should be under NO illusion that its policies in regard of the Armed Forces are sustainable even in in the short term - any attempt to continue to treat the Armed Forces with the same contempt that has been apparent over the last ten years will lead to the total and irredeemable collapse of the Armed Forces as we know them.

[Finger Poking]

Armed Forces are sustainable even in the short term

Should that be "Armed Forces are not sustainable even in the short term" ?

[Talk Reaction]

See double negatives are confusing and dangerous - careful all or before March is out we'll be saying we don't want a payrise!! :}

[Snake Eyes]

Take a look here:

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/A2F5D395-1EA1-49EB-9C0E-898FC4D119FE/0/tlmmar09.pdf

or here, then the Mar 09 PDF

Ministry of Defence | About Defence | Corporate Publications | Policy Strategy and Planning | Top Level Messages (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/CorporatePublications/PolicyStrategyandPlanning/TopLevelMessages/)

Then Page 9, where it says this:

Pay: A 2.6% pay rise, which sees, for the second year running, the pay increase for the Armed Forces being amongst the highest in the public sector. There was also a 1% increase in the X-Factor this year.

Some people saying this is last years' news, but the document header says UPDATED MONTHLY – MARCH 2009 VERSION. Do your own research....

[Gnd]

So ain't got nuffing but 2% :E

[spheroid]

So ain't got nuffing but 2%


Could someone translate that into English please?

[BEagle]

"Whilst the rest of the UK workforce is facing rising unemployment and severe financial hardship, the Armed Forces are to receive a pay rise above the current rate of inflation"

[Gnd]

That's what I said!!!

[BEagle]

Innit....






.

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Sadly, It is reported that JG has passed away. So wonder whether there will be an anouncement on AFPRB tomorrow.

Advo

[Tiger_mate]

Sometimes cynicism can go too far. But if you hadn't, somebody else would have. More significant headlines came yesterday when fiqures of just how bankrupt the country (read Govt) is; started to be announced. I hasten to add that in the recent days we (read Govt) have made financial contributions to the third world and continue to fight two very expensive Campaigns (read wars). One wonders how a bankrupt Govt can continue to spend money it clearly does not have, whilst hoping that Govt employees do not become the fall guys (n galls). That a C17 arrived at LYN yesterday with flag draped coffins must really irritate the Govt PR machine; and yes, Sky News are already proving that the smoke element of the smoke and mirrors is now up and running. If the announcement on AFPRB is tomorrow, it will demonstrate above all else how underhand this Govt actually is, and quite possibly how the media do not rate the military ops / casualties as 'newsworthy' anymore.

[navibrator]

We aren't newsworthy. As for Lyneham, what hacked me off was the Sky News reporting blahing on during the one minute silence when the cars stopped in Wooton BassettI hear that 60 000 mpeople are going to be trained in case of terrorism in the UK. Are we about to be replaced??

[Biggus]

A couple of points I have already made before, but I'm sure most people haven't bothered to read all 250 odd posts:

1) The latest inflation figures (for Feb 09) are due to be announced on 24 Mar. One of the two figures (RPI/CPI) will probably be NEGATIVE, and the other will be very low. Hence I expect any announcement to be made after 24 Mar, as by then even a very modest pay rise (say 1%) will seem generous to Mondeo Man (who is worried about losing his job) in comparison to current inflation.

2) Given that ALL public sector pay will be announced at once, there are potential a few million (I believe there are 5 million ish public sector employees - over 1 million in the NHS alone) people waiting to hear this news.

I personally am not expecting or in favour of a significant pay rise. What does hack me off about this whole issue is the apparent indifference/lack of consideration being shown from the government on down. It took someone's MP asking a minister to drag anything out of them, and even then the response was, "in due course". In terms of employer/employee relations I consider this an appalling way for an employer to act.

A statement from the government to the effect that public sector pay was under review as part of the government's overall spending plans, and therefore would not be announced until late March/early April (assuming this is of course the case) would not have been difficult.

There has been nothing but thunderous silences coming from the upper echlons of the MOD either.

I know that as a rule we actually are, but this incident very much makes me feel that we are being taken for granted...!!

Maybe I'm just being naive again - I've been accused of that before!

[Biggus]

Finally got around to using the ignore function........:O

[DaveyBoy]

Beagle: are you sure that's what Gnd actually said?

The following text is taken from the 37th report, 2008. That report was based on the case that the Government made to the AFPRB approximately 2 years ago, at which time the Jan 2007 inflation figures were: RPI 4.2%, CPI 2.7%:

The Government highlighted that CPI was the standard measure of inflation across the European Union, that it took better account of the substitution between cheaper and more expensive goods and services, and that it had a wider population coverage. It added that wage setting based on RPI would exacerbate inflation by including increases in interest rates which were designed to reduce inflation.

Current figures (for year up to Jan 2009, released Feb 2009): RPI: 0.1%, CPI: 3.0%! So by Cyclops' own argument, anything less than 3.0% for the Armed Forces is a pay cut in real terms, based on the inflation figures that are most appropriate for us. (And, given that many people in the Armed Forces don't own their own houses, excluding house prices from the calculations does indeed seem like a reasonable approach.)