SAA Crew Arrests at LHR

[tubby linton]

According to the BBC 15 crew from SAA have been arrested over alleged drug related offences.
BBC NEWS | UK | Cabin crew held over drug haul (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7840941.stm)

[rubik101]

From the Guardian today;

LONDON (AP) — Fifteen crew members of a South African Airways flight that landed in London were arrested Tuesday after a large shipment of cannabis and cocaine was found in their luggage, customs officials said.

Bob Gaiger of HM Revenue and Customs said the flight attendants and pilots on a flight from Johannesburg to London were taken into custody at Heathrow Airport as they passed through customs.

He said customs officials found 110 pounds (50 kilograms) of cannabis in three of their bags. One of the bags also contained around eight pounds (4 kilograms) of cocaine, worth around 160,000 pounds ($222,000).

Gaiger said it was not immediately clear who the bags belonged to.

South African Airways was not immediately available to comment on the arrests.

[armchairpilot94116]

Any chance someone planted those drugs in their luggage?

[Roadtrip]

Bad. Very very bad. I hope there's an explanation to this, but considering that most aircrew maintain direct control of their bags all the time, the explanation is going to have to be pretty fancy.

[PAXboy]

Did SAA manage to scratch enough crew together to get the a/c out on Tuesday evening for the return leg? If not, that's will have cost SAA a considerable amount of money and custom.

[Bushbuck]

The smuggling of drugs by the cabin crew of SAA is not new. This was not planted and is no accident. They have done so in the past. About a year ago they were caught twice within a period of 10 days in London. This complete disregard for the law is symptomatic of our way of life here. The current leaders of this country have contempt for the law and as long as they continue to adopt the attitude of " your only crime is getting caught" then this filters right through our society. The president of the ANC, Jacob Zuma is a good example

[TwinJock]

Any chance someone planted those drugs in their luggage?


The short answer : NO!

[parabellum]

Well, one assumes they are bound to say they were planted but as it looks as though LHR may have been tipped off rather than a random rummage by customs let's hope their is sufficient history and evidence to nail them, like their fingerprints on the packages etc.

[edunne02]

Gentlemen,

With not the least intent to be judgmental, I make the following observation:

In virtually all aviation matters regarding flt crews, the going-in-position of this forum is "I wasn't there. Let's wait for the data and then make a judgment."

In this case, however, there is ABSOLUTELY no chance the drugs were planted and the buggers should be jailed forthwith.

If I were a sociologist, I'd be seriously concerned that Political Correctness (a masking of truth) has gone far enough to prompt such an unexpectedly strong reaction from one of the most admired and respected professional groups in the world.

Sorry to go off thread.

ED

[411A]

....In this case, however, there is ABSOLUTELY no chance the drugs were planted


Ahhh, just how do you know?

With not the least intent to be judgmental...

Really?:ugh::rolleyes:

[cwatters]

Who travels with enough empty space in their suit cases to allow a further 16kg to be added (50kg/3)? If planted what was taken out to make room :-)

[flaphandlemover]

I just came bk from JNB... As we put 18 crewbags into the hold, only 17 arrived at the belt in JNB!!!!:mad::mad::mad::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

Coming back we where down by another 3 bags. Everyday our Airline encounters 3-5 missing crewbags in JNB. :ugh::ugh:

My luggage was missing for one week and after i got it bk, everything was raided...even my toiletbag was taken apart.... Stuff got stolen out of my CREWBAG!!!!

Very inconvinient to spent 28 hours in JNB without anything other than uniform

JNB has a big issue with their employees....:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Let's see what the outcome is...

I wouldn't be surprised, if the drugs have been planted into their luggage..


Good luck to you guys and all the best to get you out of Jail soon.

[IcePack]

In my airline we have a problem with crew baggage being broken into. The crew security seals do not appear to be a deterant. I've often wondered if in some cases there have been attempts to plant substances. When it has happened to my crew I get the individual to immediatly search the bag in front of witnesses. On one occasion a member of HMRC. (nothing was found)

[dudleydick]

My concern is that all 15 crew members were held so that must include the cockpit crew as there can only be about 12 in the back. I find it difficult to believe that the flight crew could have been involved
I worked at JNB for 30 years and the baggage pilferage problem, which reached epidemic proportions a year or so ago, is still prevalent. Outgoing bags as well as incoming are at risk. Planting the drugs with possibly one (cabin?)crew member involved is a possibility.

[crewmeal]

JNB has a big issue with their employees...

I worked at JNB for 30 years and the baggage pilferage problem, which reached epidemic proportions a year or so ago, is still prevalent. Outgoing bags as well as incoming are at risk.

If this is the case where are the airline security people to watch over the crew baggage? As baggage is being tampered with where does this happen? in the hold? in transit to the customs area/crew baggage drop off point? or in the terminal?

If this is an ongoing problem as some have said, then airlines need to tighten their security up instead of wondering what liquids and gels are in the hand luggage.

In my airline we have a problem with crew baggage being broken into. The crew security seals do not appear to be a deterant.

If that was me I wouldn't have touched it and ask for Customs to inspect my case in front of other officials.

[NigelOnDraft]

My concern is that all 15 crew members were held so that must include the cockpit crew as there can only be about 12 in the back. I find it difficult to believe that the flight crew could have been involvedEven if it is true all 15 were arrested, it does not go on to say whether they were all detained in custody etc.

I suspect HMRC would arrest all to invoke certain powers / keep the crew separated / and gather enough evidence to decide who to detain and who to release etc. As above, it may well be that this was not a "chance" interception, but one customs team at the aircraft (?) and another intercepting the crew separately (e.g. on board / immigration). It could well take a bit of time to establish exactly who is who, whose bag is who's, particularly when it involves 3 bags so a "team" maybe working together...

NoD

[legacy]

Apparently crew have been released... no charges.

It's not impossible to have it planted - after the bags leave the crew hands - they still go through the loading process and pass through a few "hands" before the aircraft door is closed!

Quote:
"My concern is that all 15 crew members were held so that must include the cockpit crew as there can only be about 12 in the back. I find it difficult to believe that the flight crew could have been involved"

Referring to comment above: HUH!?!?! Why wouldn't the cockpit crew be involved - what makes them the goodies?? Seriously - could have been anyone!

[divinehover]

Legacy

I think it's rather obvious why it's UNLIKELY cockpit crew.

Let's do a quick pshycometric test:

Q: Who is MORE LIKELY to smuggle drugs?

a) Well paid proffessionals (doctors, lawyers,accountants, pilots ect) or
b) Low paid unproffessional workers (shop assistant, receptionist, cabin crew ect)
c) None of the above

Take your time before answering.

[Capt Fathom]

Roadtrip, you are joking aren't you?

but considering that most aircrew maintain direct control of their bags all the time
You have NO control over your bag, from the time it gets checked in, until the time it appears on the baggage belt (if your lucky!) at your destination!

All and sundry have access to it during that time!

[Centreline747]

BBC reports 'Crew released on bail till March'......

IF drugs were planted then there must be a 'receiver' in the UK. They are the ones that need catching!

Rgds
CL747

[Captain Numpty]

Divinehover

Be careful my friend.......

F/Deck guys and be crooked too

Christopher Barrart-Jolly!!!

Check out this alledged "professional" & his brother-in-law out on Google. Interesting characters that I knew of from my days at Coventry.

A man who no regard for anything but himself.

A great but worrying site to see his 707 taking off from 23/ 05

[legacy]

divineh...

really - all based on your opinion. The fact is that there HAVE been arrests in the past of CAPTAINS smuggling loot around.. simply because they are seen as the less likely suspects - as you rightly pointed out.

Just saying you can't rule them out - IT COULD HAVE BEEN ANYONE of them OR anyone else.

[fourgolds]

Another great advertisement for the Rainbow Nation , especially with a pending world cup . OK so a few possibilities.

1) the crew ( some or all) guilty as sin
2) the stuff is planted due to poor security in JNB .
Believe me the world needs to wake up to the crime in this Country and the more press about this the better. I have heard many horrific stories from my SAFFER mates here about life over there. Nice people , bad government !)

[Bushbuck]

If you understand the system at LHR, then the suggestion of the bag being planted is ludicrous. The crew collect their bags at the aircraft and a bus takes them WITH THEIR BAGS to customs. If customs are in a good mood - no search. If they decide to check, then simply deny that the unmarked bags belong to you. That is why I suspect they were held for so long. The customs officers were trying to establish ownership.
By planting the drugs - as suggested - who benefits? There has to be a recipient or at least a courier. One (or more ) crew members are guilty and have covered their tracks. This has been done before. The culture of criminality is so pervasive in SA and begins with our politicians - who have set the example.

[Keygrip]

Did "divinehover" really just call cabin crew "low paid, unprofessionals"?

CRM at its best, eh?

[pinkaroo]

The HMRC expression for using innocent bags to carry contraband is known as "Rip On Rip Off". It involves the smuggler covertly marking such bags with the sort of pen Crime Prevention Officers used to hand out to households to mark valuables with your postcode. The use of an ultraviolet light on such bags is all the end contact needs to achieve this. Next time you pass the baggage handler's locker room have a wander in and find the "spare" locker not assigned to anyone. It's in there.

[Wader2]

I thought there was a single bag weight limit. For 3 bags with 37lb of drugs in each they would have been VERY HEAVY.:E

Why the nes and then no charges? Personal use?

[Sven Sixtoo]

I'm worried about the previous post suggesting CC are unprofessional!

Low paid - possibly (Likely at SAA?)

Unprofessional - I hope not, and recent events indicate that CC are as professional in their own field as anyone.

Unprofessional by definition - if they are smuggling, yes, but that applies equally at both ends of the aircraft.

As regards bag weight - once it's been checked, who cares? If the baggage handlers are in the criminal loop they are unlikely to sue under H&S? But presumably the bag then has to be stolen or emptied on arrival before the crew get their hands on it?

Sven

[RatherBeFlying]

It looks to me that Customs tipped their hand by asking each crew member to identify his or her bags.

Things got curiouser when three bags went unclaimed:E

Possibly one or more crew felt it wiser to deny ownership:O

Possibly the wrong ramp crew didn't know to leave the three bags in the a/c for subsequent discreet pickup:ouch:

[parabellum]

It is also possible that the three bags were not owned by the crew, had been put into the crew bag container deliberately, knowing they would be loaded into the back of the crew coach at airside, assuming no rummage by customs then the coach delivers crew plus bags to hotel and, if asked about the three remaining bags, driver says, "They belong to another crew I'm just going to drop them at their hotel, the bags were delayed".

Oh what fun, the theories and the theories and the theories!

Just remembered, some years ago an Air France B747 FO, one of the highest paid in the world at that time with great tax concessions got caught smuggling drugs!

[Bushbuck]

In response to Parabellum. The crew themselves have to load their own bags onto the bus. If the bag does not belong to you, then it remains behind - could have been a passenger bag incorrectly loaded. By loading the bag on the bus, you claim it to belong to you - simple as that

[anartificialhorizon]

Can't believe you just wrote that devinehover......:D

After the events in the Hudson last week you must have b*lls of steel to make that remark!

Low paid, too true.

Unprofessional, what are you talking about. Most of the cc I come across in my day to day are hardworking, diligent and take pride in their work. Unprofessional?

Regardless of that, the person or persons who carried the drugs aboard needs making an example of. Until they identify them, the whole crew are under suspicion. How would you feel if it was one of your crew members?

Good job it was not Singapore they were arriving into !!

[brockenspectre]

I hope no-one minds my posting, I am only SLF, but am puzzled by some of what is being written so may I please seek clarification on a couple of things?

I am assuming (which may be wrong too) that crew bags are kept separate and handled separately from pax bags.

On departure:

If all crew load their own bags into a baggage container/whatever that is separated at all times from pax bags, does someone establish that there is no other bag already in that container? OR is there some other process by which crew bags are put on board?

If a container is sealed and rendered tamper-proof, is this done in the presence of the crew so that additional bags can't be included? or at this point is the system reliant on the baggage-handlers? If the container isn't sealed then it is clearly fair game for anyone to plant additional bags.

On arrival:

If it is a sealed container, who verifies that the tamper-proof seal hasn't been broken? and, of course, that it is the same seal and not a new one!

If not sealed, again it is fair game for anyone to remove the additional bags... the crew will only claim their bags.

What really is the likelihood that it is the crew and not baggage handlers, for example (or another group with access to the aircraft and crew bags) running drugs in sizeable quantities?

This is the 21st century, baggage handlers all over the world come from all over the world, all have cellphones and laptops... if there can be a ring of office cleaners at LHR who systematically looted Immigration forms and rubber stamps for illegal immigration gangs etc etc and large numbers of aircraft cleaners who were themselves illegals then how hard can it be for baddies to run an international drug cartel through the baggage handling operation. The person that is invisible is the ideal candidate for such an operation, not the highly visible one (who at best might be a decoy!).

Just my 2 cents.

[divinehover]

Carry on luggage (pull along) is kept in the cabin. If the security staff at SAA were on the take then it would be easy to get the bags onto the a/c. Crew are searched at random in LHR. So it was luck of the draw if they were going to away with it.

[Lenny]

This article explains a lot about the situation at SAA (and possibly what happened in LHR):

The rapid decline of South African Airways : IMC-SA (http://southafrica.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/6393_comment.php?theme=1)

[Connetts]

Go to

News - Crime & Courts: SAA crew drugs scandal: the plot thickens (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=15&art_id=nw20090122112846180C890276)

[mustafagander]

Ah yes, I so love the presumption of innocence in British justice.

Wait for the courts to decide, please.

Control of our bags? Are you serious? Once we check them in, who can tell who has access? All we know is that we no longer have them under our control.

[Geezers of Nazareth]

As somebody involved in handling baggage at Heathrow (not SAA, and not T1) I might have a few comments and questions.

We have a couple of flights each day from SA, and we all moan about the fact that many of the passenger bags are wrapped (and sealed) in some kind of plastic wrap ... something similar to cling-film, but thicker and more resilient. To be honest, it's a complete nuisance, but reading all the above I can understand why it is used.
It's not all the bags, but most of them, so I assume that it's a passenger decision to have their baggage wrapped-up (or not). Therefore I presume that there is some kind of machine and operator before the baggage check-in desk.
It may not be much of a detterent (sp?), but if you get your baggage wrapped in SA, and when it arrives in London it is not wrapped, then you would expect the passenger to be suspicious.

But, .... I have never seen a crew bag wrapped in the plastic film!


brokenspectre:
I am assuming (which may be wrong too) that crew bags are kept separate and handled separately from pax bags.

On departure:

If all crew load their own bags into a baggage container/whatever that is separated at all times from pax bags, does someone establish that there is no other bag already in that container? OR is there some other process by which crew bags are put on board


Yes and no! it does vary from airline to airline ...

in my experience ...

CC check-in their bags just like a passenger, but there is a special/ separate check-in desk. The cc-bags go through the normal baggage check/scan system, and are then taken to the aircraft. At the aircraft, they are either loaded into the bulk-hold at the back of the aircraft;
or they are loaded into a separate baggage-bin which is used solely for crew-bags;
or they are placed into an existing baggage-bin with other passenger bags (usually the First-Class bin as it has most room).

The crew do certainly not load their bags into the container, and in some instances the bags are left at the back of the aircraft until a suitable baggage-bin arrives (not too clever in the rain!), and the crew are already on-board preparing for the flight.
If loading the cc-bags into the First-Class bin, there will always be some other bags in there; but in any case, there are no 'seals' applied to the baggage bins.



On the other side of the coin ... Arrivals.

If in a separate baggage bin the whole bin is either taken to the baggage belts, or to the waiting coach.
If the cc-bags are in another bin then the whole bin goes to the baggage belt.
If loaded loose into the bulk hold they are either loaded into a trailer and taken to the baggage belts, or left at the back of the aircraft for the crew to pick up themselves or the crew coach driver to collect (varies from airline to airline).


I can see plenty of opportunites for 'error' in any of the above scenarios.

[beamender99]

On the many flights I have taken it is normal to see the crew collecting their bags off the belt like the SLF do.

Earlier this year at T5 one of my black Delsey cases, very early of the flight, was removed from the belt by, I assume one of the BA crew. (Thanks for that and the delay it cost me!)
Reason given " it had yelllow tie on cardboard label that was similar to crew tags".
From my experience crew bags can easily be identified.

I know in the past there were holes in at least one computer system that allowed "additional" bags to enter the system without the SLF being aware that said bag was tagged to him/her.

It always worrried me that if I was such a victim, to try explaining at the other end...
"This bag (which I have never seen) with a computer ( that never lies) bag tag with my name on does NOT belong to me."

I have seen duplicate airline bag tags produced by computers that are always right.
I hope things are better but who knows

[parabellum]

At LHR the scenario I suggest in post #30 would be very easy to replicate, it has actually happened.

Crew have very little control over their own baggage from check-in until arrival, either at the hotel or the baggage belt.

[racedo]

Not a shock if some crew caught alledgedly smuggling.

Across Air Crew worldwide there are murderers, rapists, paedophiles, drunks, druggies, wife beaters, husband beaters, child beaters and probably every other thing you can think of.

Outlandish statement ...YUP but why would people assume that Aircrew should be different from the population they are drawn from.

Are people above likely to be a small minority ?

Of course they are but the reality is that you will always get bad apples and to tar everyone with the same brush is as dumb as suggesting every pilot could land an Airbus in the Hudson and everyone gets out alive.

[extreme P]

Aircrew are just a normal slice of the population. Legend has it there was a Captain who fled the UK after a similar incident and has yet to return.

[PAXboy]

Geezers of Nazareth Thanks for the very helpful explanation. The heavy duty cling wrap is used by experienced pax in both directions where Africa is concerned and I always have my bags wrapped before departure to ANY African destination. In the UK it's, if memory serves, £5 a bag. I would also wrap my bags if going to South America, Thailand and similar countries.

Sorry if it is a hassle, the wrap operator usually makes sure the handles are cut through and that wheels are fully operational.

[vanHorck]

If a security guard at the departure admitted, it still leaves the question on who collects the merchandise?

The crew member concerned, or is there somebody who's able to pick up just the right bag BEFORE the crew gets hold of it without fellow workers noticing it? Seems risky to me even for smugglers

ie

Likelihood some crew member was involved

If I m wrong I m wrong but for now I ll remain in the suspicious camp

[grumpybutt]

Sad but true these days! I remember hearing from a mate who worked at RBA that a while back one of their 767 captains had to flee England after being arrested with controlled substance's in his luggage! Again sad if true? Isn't this why all safety related employees are drug tested these days??:sad:

[Geezers of Nazareth]

Paxboy:

Geezers of Nazareth Thanks for the very helpful explanation. The heavy duty cling wrap is used by experienced pax in both directions where Africa is concerned and I always have my bags wrapped before departure to ANY African destination. In the UK it's, if memory serves, £5 a bag. I would also wrap my bags if going to South America, Thailand and similar countries.

Sorry if it is a hassle, the wrap operator usually makes sure the handles are cut through and that wheels are fully operational.


The hassle is not with the handles or the wheels, it is (unfortunately) with the whole bag being wrapped!. I shall explain...

Each baggage bin holds 40-50 bags, and when we come to empty them onto the belts we can usually find a handle or strap or something else to pull on *, to get the bags out and back to you. Despite the bags being different sizes and shapes they are still reasonably easy to slide.

With the bags on the SA flights covered in the security wrap/film they do not slide at all, and getting bags out of the bin is very difficult. Sometimes it can take two people pulling on a bag to get it to move.



* - I know that you don't want to hear about us pulling on straps and other such things to get the bags out, but sometimes it is the only way. If the bags are loaded with the handle facing 'inwards' we have to grab whatever we can. The worst thing to get/use is one of those stretchy luggage straps to go around your case - usually with your name embroidered - as they are one of the easiest things to grab, and one of the first things to break/snap.









Some 'areas for concern' that I can recollect based upon reading the comments in this thread ...

Airline #A - crew bags are collected by a coach. We unload them to the back of the aircraft, and he picks them up; we never see the crew pick up their bags. All he knows is how many bags he should have. An 'extra crew bag' can be easily overlooked, get removed from the airport to the crew hotel ... and the deed is done.

Airline #B - crew bags delivered to the back of the aircraft after the crew have been dropped-off at the front of the aircraft. We don't know how many crew there are, or how many bags, so an extra bag is simply loaded and we are none the wiser.

Airline #C - flight arrives late, so most of the crew do the 'tidy up' after pax disembark, while one crew member goes in the coach to collect the crew bags. He collects all the bags, but doesn't know which bag belongs to which CC. Again, an extra bag from places unknown, is loaded into the coach and taken to the hotel.


... and their are countless similar tales.


Now, back to speculation about the SA cc ...

[reptile]

Following information in this morning's edition of South African newspapers:

1. A CC member was arrested on her return to SA and appeared in court yesterday on drug trafficking charges.

2. She is married to a Nigerian man who is linked to a West African drug cartel.

3. Intelligence shows that the two are part of a larger syndicate which is strongly suspected of having operatives in airlines and at airports to help smuggle drugs across the world.

4. The CC member has been an employee of SAA for the last three years.

Full Article in the Cape Times here. (http://www.capetimes.co.za/?fSectionId=3531&fArticleId=vn20090123012337683C956484)

[malq]

Why DO cabin and cockpit crew HAVE to take such heavy baggage with them? Often see uniformed crew lugging one/two hand baggage and two huge suitcases around and wonder what's in them - a couple of spare sets of uniforms and some clothes/toilet case for a short layover can't occupy so much weight or volume?

My take here is that there is a whole lot of private trucking going on, legal and semi-legal commerce between waypoints, and from there it is a short step downwards to narcotics.

[dudleydick]

To add to that info - a female security person working for a contracted service at SAA crew area has also been arrested.

[Flintstone]

Why DO cabin and cockpit crew HAVE to take such heavy baggage with them? Often see uniformed crew lugging one/two hand baggage and two huge suitcases around and wonder what's in them - a couple of spare sets of uniforms and some clothes/toilet case for a short layover can't occupy so much weight or volume?

My take here is that there is a whole lot of private trucking going on, legal and semi-legal commerce between waypoints, and from there it is a short step downwards to narcotics.


I've seen some absolute tosh posted in these forums over the years but this one's the front runner.

So all aircrew with large suitcases are smuggling contraband malq? Perhaps you'd like to share your evidence with the rest of us?