What sort of AT service do you,the customers,want?

[The Real Slim Shady]

The thread on the ATA L1011s got me thinking about alternatives.

However, a bit of market research is never amiss; being as you are the end users what do you want out of a medium / long range AT provider?

Seat pitch?
Single or 2 or 3 class cabin?
Flat beds in business / PE?
Catering?
IFE?
Civilian style check in / seat choice / allocation?
Military or civilian cabin crew?
Frequent Flyer Upgrades? (Joke)

[Seaking93]

Something that works:ok:

[SVK]

Totally agree with Seaking but would add:

1. Just a little bit more leg room - so my knees aren't jammed against the seat in front.

2. Enough cabin space to fit your handluggage because quite frankly at present you simply cannot fit your civvy clothes / washbag and towel (as ordered in case of diversion) + your body armour and helmet in a 5kg bag.

3. A service that runs on time! Its not too much to ask considering the fact that you have to turn up 4 hrs before the flight and even longer if you're a pongo who has had to clear through South Cerney first!

However I do think we wouldn't have half the problems we are experiencing if, above all, FSTA had come in on bl**dy time!

[ZH875]

However I do think we wouldn't have half the problems we are experiencing if, above all, FSTA had come in on bl**dy time!

Will FSTA ever be part of the RAF inventory.?

Perhaps it should be TFSTA - Theoretical FSTA.:p

[The Real Slim Shady]

How would seats at 35 inch pitch suit you?

With a little thought it is straightforward to get 265 economy at 35 inches in a 767. Thats a T* passenger load but in some degree of comfort, and much more efficient.

And in a 774 398 seats at 35 inch pitch economy and 45 flat beds in PE cabin.

[ZH875]

PE/Club cabin- is it really needed? Surely it would just be full of movers and their "mates" who have "reserved" a flat bed by donating a slab of beer....


Oh no it wouldn't.


It would be full of Femaale Officers from ATC or Supply, who have absolutely nothing to do with any trial or detachment, but have gone along for a jolly with the pilots. They would not have donated any beer either, just something else warm and wet, like southern ales.

[MarkD]

how about asking Sir Bearded One for a similar deal to Qantas/RAAF, where RAF personnel are qualified onto his remaining six A343s which are then chartered for interim lift. The 343 crews would gain Airbus experience for FSTA and VS would get RAF transport contracts - assuming lease conditions, if any, allow. BA 744s would not bring anything to the table in terms of future operations.

[The Real Slim Shady]

The PE cabin is needed because the fit has to be standardised: the medium range 767s don't need flat beds as the aircraft is capacity limited.

A 744 though would need a forward lower cabin convertible for stretchers hence it may as well as have flat bed seats rather than economy.

If the need exists for weight, i.e all the pax are carrying body armour and 50 - 60 kgs of baggage, then there is no reason why the aircraft can't have all flat beds.

Capacity vs pax weight vs fuel vs range: optimimise for the best solution.

[Vage Rot]

Don't care about the aircraft type as long as it's serviceable!

On the other hand, Movement staff that are not jobsworths and have at least 2 brain cells would be nice! "Sirs, Ma'ams, ladies and gents!!" - ooops! anyone else chuckle going through AUD recently, or was it just me!!?:D

[Nomorefreetime]

Sir's, Ma'ams, Ladies and Gents

Famously said by the RLC movers everytime they address passengers,

Amazing came about because an Army officer took offence to 'Can I have your attention please', which the staff at home base still use.

Makes me laugh too when I hear it.

[Whenurhappy]

Of course, 'Sirs, Ma'ams, ladies and gents' call involves redundancy, because anyone properly educated (ie brung up propper) would know that the plural of Sir is Gentlemen, Ma'am is Ladies.

It is a particularly aggravating call, made in a shrill voice in the middle of the night in some dusty fest-tent. A simple 'Your attention please' would suffice, I would have thought.

Bah, humbug.

[Grabbers]

An AT fleet that runs on time, administered by people who understand they often deal with people under stress on a long, oft dangerous deployment. These 'administrators' would then stop pontificating about minor issues they may have with pax and provide a service.:ok:

[CirrusF]

How about an RAF version of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary?

MoD pays (say) British Airways to acquire and operate a fleet of transport aircraft with any "extras" required by MoD. BA operate them as part of their normal civilian fleet most of the time, but they can be requisitioned for MoD at times of need.

[FayeDeck]

Anything other than the current shambles

[airborne_artist]

MoD pays (say) British Airways to acquire and operate a fleet of transport aircraft with any "extras" required by MoD. BA operate them as part of their normal civilian fleet most of the time, but they can be requisitioned for MoD at times of need.

The problem with that is that BA have schedules to run, maintenance programs etc., so they'd have to have airframes, crews and maintenance facilities pretty much dedicated to the task, but sitting idle so that they are ready for the MoD call.

With the way things are currently there's plenty of capacity in the spot market for aviation, so long as you don't mind the nationality of the crew/airframe, so they can probably get most of what they want at short notice.

[The Real Slim Shady]

If you go to BA or the Bearded wonder or any ACMI outfit, you get their product which does not cater for the needs of the individual with body armour etc and you have seats at 30 - 32 inch pitch.

Time to apply some thought to the process and avoid coming up with the same old same old every time: hence my suggestion that 35 inches in economy would be comfortable enough to rest in, provide space for personal equipment / hand baggage and ensure that when you arrive you don't feel as though you need 2 days to recover!

Renting a bucket and spade charter aircraft is hardly the optimum solution either.

[minigundiplomat]

Howabout some decent aircraft that all those involved in the thankless task of providing an airbridge can make work without recourse to a magic wand, or just hope alone.