Can you send out your CV before license issue?

[ATPLwhoops]

Hi Everyone,

Im on an UK Integrated FATPL course. I am approx one week away from license issue i have my CPL just finishing off the IR. Is it possible to start sending out CV's without a license number and without the MCC which is due to start first week of Feb?

Any info would be great


ATPLwhoops

[Halfbaked_Boy]

ATPLwhoops,

I couldn't answer your question, but if you don't want to become seriously depressed seriously soon then I would highly reccommend deleting this thread, eliminating its existence from your mind and steering clear of these lands for the next twelve months at least. I doubt you'll receive many particularly constructive replies to your question here, and indeed I've just got the ball rolling!

And just some friendly advice, I should forget about all this about sending CVs off, you'll be joining every other monkey with the same idea, but I stand corrected if you have plans otherwise undisclosed. A very good friend of mine finished his ATPL three months ago - he spent a couple of months sat at home writing out letters and filling in application forms, the usual sob story you'll hear around these parts. HOWEVER, one day he made a great decision - he got into his car, drove to every corner of the country visiting every promising airfield he could, getting out there, talking to people, and seeing what there was to offer. That proved very fruitful for him, and between two jobs fairly close to one another he now has the equivilant of a full time flying job, nicely varying between the two operations. He had both jobs secured a couple of weeks back and is now trained up on the aircraft he'll be flying, one of which is a nice little Duchess used for air taxi work mostly across to Scandinavia. He might be jobless again in a month's time, but hey, it's a start!

Apologies for the thread drift, I'm not even ticketed for employment yet, but I do know a lot of people and have a good idea of the 'behind the scenes' footage that exists around, and getting out there and being practical will place you in far better stead than sat on Microsoft Word all day every day :p

I wish you the best of luck mate, follow your dreams,

Jack.

[nick14]

Well during our course we were told that sending your CV before you have an MCC is fruitless as you are not qualified in their eyes as you can still fail to gain the MCC cert, (not likely but I have seen 2 failures at the school).

Best of luck
N

[dartagnan]

you know, nobody cares of your integrated school.
airlines are simply not hiring at this time, and you cv will go in a pile with thousand cv, or simply deleted.

with no type rating and no hours as a captain, you chance are not at 0%, but -3%... you will lose ur money and ur hope in the long run.
if you want a job, is take your bag, and go in the middle of africa, and hope than someone give you a job. be ready to work hard, be poor, and have a ****ty life for the next 10 years.

I know, I sound arch, but this is the reality.everyday i meet guys like you coming out of school, and applying in the airline. Usually the send 50 cv, before realising there is practiacally no hope without an instructor license.

why do you think ur instructor is still an instructor? look around you...get a clue, be realistic. 2009-2010 will be **** for everybody.:(

the reality :there is a no job for a nob with 200h flight!!!

[nick14]

Rather over the top don't you think.

there are jobs because me and my classmates have been employed in the last 2 months.

There just aren't very many.:ok:

[Flying Squid]

Well what a stunning example of arrogance dartagnan......who are you to come out with "there are no jobs for a nob with 200hrs"......:=

We all know finding work is extremely difficult and indeed the next year or two will be pants, especially for the low hour jobs market. However, do you honestly think labelling 200hr guys as nobs is professional??? Do us all a favour and ditch the attitude mate. It's not needed, especially at times like these. :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Reluctant737]

Don't waste your effort chaps, the guy's talking out his arse. I'll tell you something as well, I'm not saying this is a great time for finding employment, but I am within a small triangle of three very close friends, who all had the same aims and ambitions within the airline industry and we all took steps to achieving that dream two years ago. I found employment with (and continue to fly for) Ryanair early last year, now I'm not saying the market is great at the minute, it's pretty ****ty, but these two friends of mine were fruitless in finding any kind of job throughout the majority of 2008. Come prior to Christmas, both of them are now joining me at FR - incidentally they were partnered together on the sim check at EMA!

This Dartagnan guy is sour grapes over something (either that or a fourteen year old Spanish kid somewhere judging by the grammar structure) - possibly been furloughed off somewhere along the line and feels bitter towards all the young uns paying a few thousand of somebody else's money and riding the easy train to the RHS, but that would be speculative, yet completely understandable. If I were in that position I'd probably feel the same way, although I'd exercise a little more control than lose my self respect posting insults to cadets on an anonymous message boards!

Anyway, he does have a point - as halfbaked pointed out, unless you're looking at Ryanair (we're into hold pool territory now btw, so it's better to get your app in sooner rather than later), that Turkish line training program or have found one of the elusive turboprop jobs taking cadets for a well known airline in Vietnam, Africa is THE place to look. Is a cadet up to taking on a single pilot commercial role straight out of training? I should bloody well hope so, make the most of any job you can get now because if you've just finished your IR your hands on flying skills will be about as good as they're ever going to get, unless you get a job in low level aerial photography (those jobs exist in the UK now also, although that's more a who you know business).

Get to some airfields, get talking. If that fails and you are in a position to afford it, consider an Instructor Rating - despite popular negativity, there are still full time jobs around for restricted FIs, but ask yourself, can you afford to move somewhere possibly far away and live somewhere, run your car blah blah for £12-15,000 PA? Possibly less...

It's a tough old game, but people are still getting through, there's no reason why you shouldn't. Don't let the bad apples get to you :ok:

Ad

[BigNumber]

Wanting something so 'desperately' but facing up to harsh reality is always going to produce emotional outbursts. Perhaps Dartagnan might therefore be excused?

The truth is there are jobs! I know because I secured one. ( Biz Jet )

Finding work requires lots of lateral thinking as the 320 / 737 box is now empty. BUT it can be done. Network and be nice to everyone.

Sincerely the best of luck to you all.

[Callsign Kilo]

Dartagnan speaks with some honesty regarding the employment market, however the degree of biterness does nothing for anyone. He may be employed on the 320, however I assume (and may be incorrect that he has a SSTR which has proven fruitless. Sorry if I am wrong old chap).

Yes, I agree. A TR with no time or limited time on type is pretty worthless today. As is rushing into an integrated course at the present time. My opinion, however that isn't the question.

Can you send your CV out before you are qualified? Yes, why not? It worked for me and led to me getting an interview with a 737 operator before my IR was complete. Complete and utter luck and good fortune. Right place, right time, right postcode! Went into a hold pool but never got the job due to a change in direction by the airline in question. No worries, just encouraged me to explore other 'options.' Glad to say I have a job, however again - 'right place right time.'

My advice is do what you feel is right. You will need to be dynamic as hell and network like there is no tomorrow. A slow, cautious approach to your training is not a bad idea.

[BigNumber]

CK, it would appear that you and I are on the same 'Song Sheet'

The truth is there are jobs. The earlier you start politely 'networking' the better. Aim for small operations where you might be 'the right face at the right time'.

Remember, flying can be highly rewarding in the GA world, even if it's not the 737/320 that you promised yourself.

I thoroughly enjoy Biz Jet's, the variety of routes, and the team spirit that our small operation enjoys. The view from FL450 is fabulous!

[ATPLwhoops]

Hey

Im a bit shocked at these responses, we are not nobs and well how can u possibility put me in the same boat as the other integrated students when you dont even know me.

Really childish we all need to start somewhere, gd luck to those that had decent responses.

[shaun ryder]

I would personally be concentrating on the job in hand, i.e finishing your training. Not rushing to send your cv into the recyclebin or shredder at your local airline HR department. Even when times are good, thats where most of them end up. I dont ask you to trust me, but I will tell you that the odds dartagnan quoted should not be sniffed at. The chances of even experienced ATPLs getting employment at the moment is small. Its getting bad and we are all thinking about our future prospects. There is no rush to send your cv out.

[eagerbeaver1]

No, you are not qualified. Your CV will be binned immediately. However a bit of lurking and schmoozing is a good idea, I did it.

All the best.

[RB311]

My view would be, why deprive yourself of a chance, however small it may be? I sent out pre-completion letters, not only to give me a chance to be put on the map, but also i wrote to ask advice. It was surprising how many replies I received, and those letters are on file, here, just incase I may need some contacts in the future.

If you aren't sending out CVs, you can bet someone else is, and so much about getting your first firm step on the career ladder, relies on luck and being in the right place at the right time.

Rgds

RB311

[FrankAbagnale]

Dart dude...if you hate life so much...Just end it..
That way, there will be one more job for the rest of us.
:}

[LessThanSte]

Perhaps it wouldnt hurt to ring the relevant people that you'll be sending CV's too and asking there opinion. I like the post above, asking 'advice' isnt necessarily a bad idea. I think a lot of people worry about being cheeky or too upfront with jobs and interviews and the like when in reality its generally no bad thing! Just make sure that you mention you are in the very final stages!

But then i do guess its much like applying for a job driving a taxi a week before your driving test.......!

[corsair]

I would say don't bother sending CVs unless you have completed your MCC and have all you ducks lined up in a row. I used to work in an airline and saw CVs come through. They simply binned those who weren't available NOW!

Plaintive little letters explaining how you're working on it and how much it's your dream simply raise a snigger and follow the CV to the recycling plant. Essentially if you send a CV without the minimum requirements you are simply wasting some busy person's time. They don't like that much. So don't do it. You'll always hear the story of the guy who got a job that way but it's exceptional.

There is no hurry anyway, it's not as if there's a pilot shortage. There are jobs as some have pointed out but most of them go to people who networked. Networking doesn't mean annoying the hell out of HR people in airlines. It means getting out there and making friends in any aviation capacity you can find.

Right now I have a little GA job, lucky me. I know however that my next job won't come via a CV sent out but probably through a phone call from someone who knows someone who knows me. I get the occasional one off job that way too. The main thing is that people out there realise I'm not a d***head and won't break their aeroplane.

So finish your training and join the pack. It'll be a bit of a wait for the jet jobs. Good luck.

[johnnyDB]

You can do whatever you want, no law against it as far as i know.
Can't fail MCC, it's not a test, just a course you must have done.

[INNflight]

with no type rating and no hours as a captain, you chance are not at 0%, but -3%... you will lose ur money and ur hope in the long run.

That's a load of crap. Four out of the five students I flew with got a job within the last 3 months, all in Europe, 250hrs TT, didn't even have to pay for their rating.

There's jobs, but very few. Saying that there's no jobs just isn't true. You may have to get off your prescious isle, but there's a few.

---

I agree it's pointless sending out CVs before you're done tho.

[fabbe92]

It isn´t exactly the same question but I don´t want to start a new thread so I will just trhow in a quicky here. Lets say you do your training in Sweden and then you want to apply for an airline in united kingdom. Can you apply and if you get accepted, convert to uk certificate. Or do you have to convert prior to sending in the application?

Cheers!

[corsair]

I only know about Ryanair. But I suppose others are similar. If it's a JAR licence, Ryanair ask that you convert it to an Irish JAR licence AFTER they select you.

[nick14]

Johnny DB,

You CAN fail an MCC or rather fail to meet the minimum grades early on. If that happens any sensible school sends you away for more training.

I saw it happen at least twice at my FTO.

This view that the MCC is just an attendance course is a silly one. It is an exciting and interesting course that challenges even the most gifted. It should be treated as a pass fail. That way you will get the most out of it and perform to your best.

After all its the first chance student pilots come into contact with the bigger and more complex birds, is that not what we aspire to??
N