Aviation Degree

[Kevinirish]

Hey all,

I recently did the UK ATPL exams and i'm now working as an instructer, Ive quite a bit of free time on my hands so i've been looking into distance learning Aviation Degrees but with no luck! I was also wondeing if there's a degree that would recocnise the ATPL's. If there's anywone out there that can point me in the right direction it would be much apreciated.

Kevin

[speedbird001]

Hi,

London MET was going to one via distant learning that did account for the ATPLs, they decided against it for some reason or another ? I'm in the same boat and was going to post the same question :ugh:


Any other info would be good.




SB001

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'm pretty certain that in the UK, there is nothing. There should be, and I've been whingeing about this for years, but there isn't.

Also it's doubtful that any university would recognise your ATPL exams towards a degree qualification. The nature of the learning and examination is extremely different to the university system that it's very hard to cross-qualify. That said, some institutions may take your ATPLs in lieu of all or (more likely) part of the more traditional degree entry requirements: A-levels and the like.

For a distance learning degree in aviation however, I'd recommend that your best bet is to look at what's available from Embry Riddle (http://www.erau.edu/ec/alldegrees.html) in the USA; the BSc in Professional Aeronautics might be the sort of thing that you're after.

Best of Luck,

G

[speedbird001]

Hi Genghis,


Many thanks for the info etc, London Met definitely were going to do it, I was just looking before I finished the GS with Bristol and I got talking to them about it, I think it was a staffing issue why they didn't go ahead, it was due to commence in Sept 08, I was pretty gutted :yuk: at the time but now I have JUST passed all of my GS exams I'm pretty happy again :)

Thanks for the link as well, will these degree's be any good to us guys in the U.K ? I mean are they valid outside the U.S ? sorry if it seems a stupid question but what I know about them you could put it on a postage stamp :rolleyes:



Cheers


SB001

[Pressure Error]

Hi Kevinirish

Funny you should post this question; I have been looking at utilising my ATPL exams to gain a further qualification once I finish my non aviation foundation degree in July.

So far I have found this Aviation Studies for Commercial Pilot Training - FdEng - Course Information - Undergraduate Students - Kingston University London (http://www.kingston.ac.uk/aviation/)

It looks like the ATPL exams are the syllabus for year 1 & 2 of the Foundation degree, this is a degree in its own right, FdEng. You can then use this for entry into the 3rd year of the honours degree, BSc(Hons)

Please feedback to the group or PM me if you find out anything interesting such as can the FdEng be issued retrospectively? and if so how many £££?

Hope this is some help
Pressure Error

[Mike.Park]

As Genghis the Engineer was saying, ERAU is your only option. As far as I know, they are the only institution that offers aviation related degrees delivered through distance learning.

If you have the time for part-time study, you could approach the universities based in the UK that offer aviation related degrees.

If distance learning is an absolute must, and you don't mind studying a subject area other than aviation, you could consider the open university.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Speedbird - yes, I'd anticipate an ERAU degree being acceptable for most purposes in the UK. It isn't an engineering degree, so won't allow you, for example, to pursue a career as an aeronautical engineer very easily but I think that you'd find it treated similarly to perhaps Leeds' Aeronautical Technology degree.

Always bear in mind that the vast majority of degrees are not qualifications to practice in any field; they are only statements of knowledge and ability. As such, they'll be taken in conjunction with the rest of your skills base by any current or prospective employer. In that context, your ATPL would also be considered part of your skills set (even if you've perhaps lost your medical or taken a different career turn), as will any other aviation / professional experience.

A note about what Pressure Error has said. Don't regard a Foundation Degree as a degree - it isn't, it's a rebadged HND and won't be regarded as anything else by any knowledgeable employer. Of course, somebody with one is better qualified than somebody without, but it is nowhere near comparable with, say, a BSc which has at-least 1 year of additional study and generally some big elements (such as the individual dissertation) missing from a relatively lightweight course such as a Foundation Degree.

G

[Groundloop]

An ATPL is a recognised entry qualification (in place of a first degree) to City University's Air Transport MSc programme.


http://http://www.city.ac.uk/study/courses/engineering-maths/airtransport-msc.html (http://www.city.ac.uk/study/courses/engineering-maths/airtransport-msc.html)

Also an ATPL forms the second year of City's BSc in Air Transport Operations. It is possible for a student who already holds an ATPL to do the first year and go straight to third year using the ATPL credits to cover the second year.


http://http://www.city.ac.uk/study/courses/engineering-maths/airtransportops-bsc.html (http://www.city.ac.uk/study/courses/engineering-maths/airtransportops-bsc.html)

[Pressure Error]

Genghis the Engineer, you say a BSc which has at-least 1 year of additional study and generally some big elements (such as the individual dissertation) missing from a relatively lightweight course such as a Foundation Degree.

I have not stated that a FD is at the same level as a BSc in fact i said You can then use this for entry into the 3rd year of the honors degree, BSc(Hons)

All I was trying to say is, you can potentially gain a BSc with one years further study.

The Foundation Degree is a degree, the clue is in the name, however I agree it is the same academic level as a HND.

[preduk]

3 years to get an hons degree, thats ridiculous!

How can they call that an hons degree when you do one basic year, miss second and then get hons in 3rd year while the rest of us doing a proper University course are doing 4 years of non-stop study.

Just shows how low the University must be.

[clear prop!!!]

3 years to get an hons degree, thats ridiculous!

Think you'll find that's the norm at Bristol, Oxford, Warwick etc etc for a BSc Hons in Maths,Physics and most other 'real' degree courses.

I know that various Scottish Universities (St Andrews etc) take an extra year but who knows why?....more time for the pub maybe?

[JohnRayner]

Most students at most institutions have been knocking out batchelor's degrees in 3 years since before I were a lad. Perfectly standard.

Some of the four year ones often included a year doing something a bit different to create a bit of interest, hence some of my friends did chemistry with Italian, or maths with Spanish.

Some undergraduate courses are longer though. I think an architecture degree takes 4, as do some engineering degrees. Standard medical degrees take 5 (an extra 2 years for the pub as per clear prop's calculation...)

[Groundloop]

3 years to get an hons degree, thats ridiculous!

The standard Honours degree in England is 3 years. Most Scottish universities take 4 years (or they used to) as Scots kids tend to leave school a year earlier after Highers (or am I years out of date on that now (that's what I did)?)

4 year engineering degrees are MEng, 3 year engineering degrees are BEng.

[preduk]

I apologise; I thought it was standard in the UK for a 4 year course.

Groundloop,

Most kids leave after 6th year these days.

I wonder why we do an extra year, are your breaks shorter or something?

[Mike.Park]

Just shows how low the University must be.

Gentlemen, stop with the academic snobbery - it's distasteful.

Preduk FYI - There are over 10 universities in the UK that offer full honours BSc or BAs in as little as two years of study.

[StressFree]

Gents,
Another problem is that there is potential to use the professional credit of an ATPL for credits with the Open University for a degree - as does everyone else like Police Officers etc. just look at their website for 'Professional Credits' - pilots just don't feature, I looked into it and found the following:
The problem is that the CAA won't co-operate and let the OU have data on the study levels required for the different aircrew and engineering licences, therefore the OU cannot assess what credits are appropriate........
Simple as that :suspect:

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'd have thought that there was quite enough in the public domain to determining the educational standards of an ATPL.


Re: 3/4 year degrees. In England and Wales the A-level system involves a small number of specialist subjects over nominally ages 17&18, plus the degrees are (compared to many countries, not necessarily Scotland), generally very narrow and specialised - allowing the material to degree level to be covered within that time.

The 2 year degree options are undoubtedly very intense - although primarily what they do is eliminate the long vacations which exist in pretty much any degree course worldwide.

The UK MSc does something similar - typically it's 13 months full time which seems very short compared to the rest of the world; in practice the rest of the world would probably do 2 years but about 8 months of each year - so in practice about 16 months: a little longer than the UK, but not massively so.


In my experience the "shorter" UK degrees are generally academically comparable to those from anywhere in the UK with perhaps one exception - the UK PhD at 3 years is incredibly short compared to much of the world which would rarely award a degree in under 8 years. To some extent the UK simply sets incredibly high standards, but also it omits a lot of the content of many (e.g. American) Doctorates and the *minimum* standard in the UK is perhaps a bit lower at graduation.


(Of course, with pretty much any degree, it's what you do with it - the professional experience, which really matters.)

G

[clear prop!!!]

Well, having done a BSc and then ATPLs, in my view, the amount of work put into the ATPL's was almost comparable to a BSc but, ...more intense in terms of timescale and pressure, given what was at stake.

I have friends who were doing BA's (in some pretty naff subjects),at the same time as my ATPL's and I would have swapped their workload at a drop of a hat!!

One day, and probably not in our lifetime, our efforts will be given the respect they deserve!!

[Groundloop]

in my view, the amount of work put into the ATPL's was almost comparable to a BSc but,

This comment comes up again and again!! The workload may be heavy but is is over a comparatively short time, ie nowhere like 3-4 years, and the content, academically, is of a pretty low level (sorry about that - but generally regarded as about A-level standard).

Virtually all degrees have various components which require a student to find out a lot of information themselves (it's called research!), collate it, think about it and produce a large report (often more than one). ATPL exams rely on memory - hence question banks! Sorry, ATPLs will never be comparable to a full degree.

[hobbit1983]

With degrees around like Media, Football, and David Beckham Studies at one end of the spectrum, and Chemistry/Engineering/Mathematics etc at the other, I would have put ATPL theory at somewhere in the middle, difficulty-wise.

However, I agree that the timescale of ATPL theory is much less than a 3-year degree - if you're in full time-study, ala Uni, I'm sure you'd not need more than 1 academic year to do it in.

(speaking as someone who has experience of Aerospace Engineering at Soton Uni, has just done all the ATPL exams part-time, and is off to Kingston's 3rd year degree top-up/ATPL course this year).