Norwegian Air Shuttle

[Donkey497]

I heard that Norwegian were supposed to be going daily with their Edinburgh/Oslo Gardemoen service some time this year. Does anyone have any info if this is still happening?

[scotsunflyer]

Increases to 5 flights per week in the summer

[Donkey497]

Oh well, I suppose in the current climate, 5 x is better than staying at the current 3 x. Hope it stays at 5x once the extra flights are introduced.

[pee]

No-frills carrier Norwegian said in a statement Thursday it would launch twice-daily services from Oslo and Stockholm to Helsinki in April.

Norwegian added the routes would form part of its strategy to become a strong player on the Nordic market.

"It is a milestone for Norwegian when we now launch our first direct flights to Finland," Bjørn Kjos, the managing director of Norwegian, said in the statement.

"The Nordic region is a natural focus area for us."

Norwegian, one of Europe's largest no-frills carriers, will compete with Finnish flag carrier Finnair and Scandinavian Airlines, including Finnish subsidiary Blue1, on the Helsinki-Oslo and Helsinki-Stockholm routes.
Source: STT

"The Nordic region is a natural focus area for us."
Oddly enough, they needed so many years to discover that Finland is a Nordic country too. Better late than never.

[pee]

From Norwegian's press release (http://www.mynewsdesk.com/files/ee0f6538e0cbfa0c1c263411f5f7e46c/resources/ResourceAttachedDocument/norwegian_expands_in_finland__final.pdf):
Oslo/Fornebu, October 5, 2010

Norwegian expands in Finland with 100 weekly flights

The airline Norwegian opens a Finnish base at Helsinki’s Vantaa airport. At the same time it introduces two domestic routes and expands the current international offer from two to 13. Three aircraft will be based in Helsinki.
“We are happy to announce that we are increasing our presence in Finland by
opening a new base in Helsinki and basing three of our aircraft here.

Norwegian entered the Finnish market in April, and after a mere five months our Helsinki-Oslo and Helsinki-Stockholm routes have proven to be a great success. We believe that both the Finnish business and leisure traveller are ready for more fares that everyone can afford to both domestic and international destinations” said Norwegian’s CEO, Bjørn Kjos.

As the second largest airline in Scandinavia and the third largest low lost airline in Europe, Norwegian serves a total of 238 routes to 93 destinations both domestic and international.

By entering the Finnish domestic market, Norwegian further increases its foothold as a major Nordic player. Today, the airline has domestic operations in Norway, Sweden and Denmark. The new Finnish routes include Helsinki-Oulu and Helsinki-Rovaniemi. Four daily flights will serve the Helsinki-Oulu route and one daily flight will operate between Helsinki and Rovaniemi. The first flight departs March 31 2011.

Norwegian has since late April 2010 operated several daily flights between Helsinki and Stockholm and Helsinki and Oslo. Spring 2011 Norwegian introduces 11 new international destinations departing from Helsinki’s Vantaa airport: Copenhagen, Malaga, Nice, Crete (Chania), Rome, Barcelona, London Gatwick, Split and Alicante.

Tickets will go on sale on Wednesday October 6 at 1 pm CET. Prices start at €29 to domestic destinations as well as to typical business and urban holiday destinations in continental Europe. The longer routes to Southern Europe start at €59. Domestic routes go into operation on March 31, whereas international routes start in early to mid May.

By now Finland has largely survived as the oasis "unspoiled" by low-cost carriers. Ryanair, being almost a monopolist here until the last year or so, kept flying just a few highly popular routes and didn't want to take advantage of this unique position.

The big losers are by far Finnair and Blue1. With the DY base on AY's yard, the sky-high prices of the national carrier could become unsustainable in the long run. The latter one, a subsidiary of SAS, has functioned according to the rule "legacy carrier prices, lcc services". It will be a big blow to that carrier either.
'

[Seljuk22]

HEL as a base was the next logical step and finally Finland will get some more LCC flight.

airBaltic will announce a base in Oulo soon
Press releases (http://www.airbaltic.com/public/45198.html)

[pee]

"Airlines are finally targeting Finland, the market that looks similar to Norway before Norwegian sparked the competition there - said the airline CEO Kjos at the press conference yesterday.

- "Norway used to have the most expensive airfares in the world, now it is probably Finland, he told the journalists.

During the question round Kjos admitted that it might be tough to get some patriotic Finns to switch the airlines.

- "The Finns like Finnair, but we are cooperating with the company quite well, pondered Kjos.

However, he thinks that it's BlueOne that will get hurt the most in the Finnish market.

[EA_cabincrew]

So basically the base will become fully operative only from March 2011? Anyone knows which aircrafts is planned to use there and what is the current situation with new personell hiring?

[pee]

which aircrafts is planned to use3 x Boeing 737-800.

[EA_cabincrew]

and does anyone know what kind of ID tickets do they have, except their own ones?

[The SSK]

Norwegian buying 222 aircraft, mix of 737s and 320s

Norwegian Air to Order Jets Valued at $21.5B - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-25/norwegian-air-shuttle-places-orders-with-boeing-airbus.html)

Where on earth are they going to fly them?

[Seljuk22]

Largest Ever Aircraft Acquisition in Europe: Norwegian purchases 222 new aircraft

22 B738, 100 B737MAX and 100 A320neo

purchase rights: 100 B737MAX + 50 A320neo
http://media.norwegian.com/en/Pressrelease/?iId=726501

[F14]

Excellent news. Ryanair take last delivery in November. Maybe now a sensible alternative over the next 5-10 year period ? Bye-bye Ryanair painted on the sides? :eek:

[Chidken Sangwich]

In an already saturated market where the likes of Ryanair are already parking many aircraft during Winter seasons, just where is the traffic expansion coming from to support such an order?

I am guessing they hope that SAS roll over and die?

Dont get me wrong, i'm all for expansion but with Stelios also repeatedly calling for restraint on Aircraft orders, can this really be sensible?

[lederhosen]

It will be interesting to see the rationale from Norwegian's management. Certainly the scandinavian market alone would not seem to justify ordering that number of planes. So it looks like them going head to head with Ryanair (another mega airline with a small local population) in the wider market.

Then again perhaps a degree of skepticism as to whether Boeing and Airbus are going to deliver to their ambitious timescales has encouraged Norwegian to place an each way bet....similar to American Airlines.

Hardly a month seems to go by without some airline that hardly anybody had heard of ten years ago ordering hundreds of jets.

[kwateow]

737 Max development cost to be twice A320neo: report (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/737-max-development-cost-to-be-twice-a320neo-report-367314/)

[TSR2]

Anyone spotted the contradiction in the press release.

The first paragraph states
The order includes additional purchase right of 150 aircraft from both manufacturers.

In the second paragraph the purchase rights seems to have changed to
Norwegian has also signed an agreement with Airbus which includes firm orders of a total of 100 Airbus A320neo as well as purchase rights for an additional 50.

[The SSK]

Look again, you'll see the 100 737 options

[Stampe]

From my recent passenger experience the Norwegian passenger offering is superb setting a standard all other european locos should aim for.It would be good news for the consumer if their product spreads across Europe.

[TSR2]

I understood the first para that reads '150 options from both manufacturers' to mean 150 from Boeing and 150 from Airbus.

[jabird]

OK, good news for Norwegian :D:D:D

But - could anyone explain the logic of splitting the order between Boeing and Airbus, apart perhaps from a slight improvement in deliver times?

An order of this size will obviously mean extensive negotiation to beat the price well below the quoted list rate - but why haggle so far, when an even larger order might result in additional discounts beyond this?

Then there's the extra costs of two sets of pilots with different type ratings. I presume the cabin crew can switch between them, but wouldn't they still need some additional training (how do deal with the exits etc) to do this?

[Totally_Bananas]

Are there enough famous people in Norway to paint on all those a/c tail fins?

[jabird]

OK, press release says:

“Norwegian has now reached a size where we will benefit from having two suppliers, both in terms of ensuring adequate flight capacity, flexibility and competition between two manufacturers,” said Kjos.

Surely, capacity is down to the size of the jets you order, and same for flexibility? I'm surprised they are focusing largely on the 150 seat area, when they have previously operated F50s. If they want flexibility, there must be loads of thinner routes within the Nordic region that would benefit from lower cost competition using smaller jets or turboprops?

And is it really up to one airline to ensure there is competition between the players?

[LN-KGL]

Totally_Bananas, already today there are both famous people from Sweden and Denmark on their tails. Next out I suspect famous people from Finland, and I'm certain there could space famous British or Spanish too - bases at Malaga and Gatwick may not be that far away?

[nigel osborne]

Jabird,

Can only assume they were offered good discounts from both Boeing and Airbusfor a certain number of planes.Otherwise makes little sense in ordering both, 2 types simulators, engines etc.

Nigel

[jabird]

Nigel,

Exactly. Conventional discounting for a bulk product may be along the line of x% off when you order over 10, then additional discount over 50, 100 and so on.

But you don't pop into your local wholesale warehouse and shove 300 planes in a trolley, wave the corporate credit card and walk out. I would have expected a bigger discount for getting the whole lot from one, combined with lower operating costs.

Unless both AB and B are so busy they could only fulfil 100 orders each?

The Southwest mantra was always stick to one type, and that is exactly what Ryanair have followed to the letter. I can understand mixing types to get different performance - e.g. like BE do between the Q400 and the E-Jets, and I can see the sense in smaller a/c for thinner routes or higher frequency - as Jetblue have done with their E-Jets.

Clearly the guys running Norwegian are no fools - I am just curious as to the logic behind this order.

[Iver]

I completely agree. Very confusing (or extremely optimistic) as to where they will place these airplanes. It will be interesting to watch SAS, Ryanair, EasyJet, Air Berlin and Wizzair to see how they respond - especially the main LCC players. I suspect Norwegian will develop hubs (maybe 2-3 hubs) in each Scandanavian country if that is allowable. I also suspect that the orders are staggered over several years. The current 800s will probably be replaced by the 737 Max and Neo airplanes. I given the choice between the MAX and the NEO, I'd personally fly the NEO. :ok:

I'd actually like to see Ryanair rebuff Airbus and Boeing and order a huge number of cheap Chinese airplanes (the new Airbus-like aircraft - cannot recall the name) to replace all of their Boeings. Now that would be interesting... :confused::cool:

Does anyone know when the first 787 will likely arrive and start service? I had heard New York as a definite destination from Oslo - any other likely destinations for the 787s? I am hoping they order more than just 6 787s - especially since they will have a massive fleet to feed them.............

[eu01]

Clearly the guys running Norwegian are no fools - I am just curious as to the logic behind this order.
To prevent Ryanair from getting good offer from neither Boeing nor Airbus?

Actually it was meant to be a joke, but who knows?

[pwalhx]

Do you really think it is probable they would look at a base at Gatwick with Easyjet and Ryanair so prominent there?

[SE210]

I heard a rumour, that a condition for investors to finance the 222 aircraft, is that all pilots will be employed as contractors - No permanent employess.

Can anybody confirm this?

Brgds

SE210

[LN-KGL]

That's gibberish SE210. I don't think Kjos would have allowed an outsider to impose in detail how to conduct their business. You may well have heard this rumour in Denmark, but I bet the people you have heard it from are either employed by SAS or other Danish carriers, but it could also be people that have applied for a job in Norwegian and didn't get it. Isn't Nykøbing Mors (aka Jante) a Danish town?

[SE210]

Okay - LN-KGL

So you believe, that outside investors of about 20 Billion USD will have no influence on how the company is run???

I find that hard to believe - even if I am not Norwegian.

Brgds

SE210

[Torquelink]

One US analyst suggests that split between NEO and MAX is a hedge against problems with new engines given widely divergent technology approaches i.e. LEAP 1B (more stages, running hotter) and the GTF (fewer stages, running cooler but with gearbox). MAX only available with the LEAP 1B so if Norwegian select the GTF for the NEO the theory might hold water. Of course, if they select the LEAP for the NEO as well it's clearly hogwash!

[davidjohnson6]

Norwegian used to fly a route from London (can't remember if it was Stansted or Gatwick) to Tromso, which has now been dropped.

I can understand that as a route it's likely to be very seasonal, with peaks from December-March (for aurora borealis and husky sledging trips) and from May-August for midnight sun / Hurtigrute - maybe 3 flights per week would suffice

Question is - why did it get dropped ?

[compton3bravo]

At a rough guess probably not enough pax to make it pay!:)

[davidjohnson6]

compton - thank you for your insightful and detailed answer.
Anyone else out there who can talk knowledgably rather than just make rough guesses ?

[LN-KGL]

A more insightful maybe?
Norwegian has a shortage of aircraft and they pick the routes that brings the best yield. A return flight TOS-LGW takes twice as long as a return flight TOS-OSL. A return flight TOS-LGW last longer than the usual break between morning rush and afternoon rush. In other words this route has to wait until Norwegian get more aircraft - and the British are out of recession.

[Sprocket2009]

They used to fly TOS from STN. They used to do an aircarft change at STN with the aircraft from OSL.

[nivsy]

Why are Norwegian classed as a LOCO? Having checked fares recently they appear almost on par with SK on some routes. The other half also interested in flying to Tromso Feb next year to get the Northern Lights "experience". I am somewhat overcome with the fares with both Norwegian and SK fo such delights.


Nivsy

[LN-KGL]

nivsy, LOCO = LOw COst airline
A common error is to equate low costs and low prices, but that has never been the same. The Norwegian ticket prices are adapted to what the revenue mangement think potensial passengers are willing to pay. OSL-TOS is almost the same distance as OSL-LGW (1119 km vs. 1229 km), and the price difference is only £15 on a return ticket (£134 vs. £119) at Norwegian. SAS wants at least £170 for return ticket OSL-TOS and minimum £175 for a return ticket OSL-LHR.

All prices are for flights in February 2013.

[jabird]

Why are Norwegian classed as a LOCO? Having checked fares recently they appear almost on par with SK on some routes. The other half also interested in flying to Tromso Feb next year to get the Northern Lights "experience". I am somewhat overcome with the fares with both Norwegian and SK fo such delights.

You as a customer are demanding a flight connection on a thin route, which due to the relative lack of demand was not able to sustain itself from the UK.

You will therefore be taking a connecting flight - a service many other low cost airlines do not provide.

You are asking for low cost on a route which is inherently high cost, and I'm afraid neither Norwegian, nor any other airline could deliver that.

I have also looked at prices for LGW-OSL v FR STN-TRF or RYG, and by the time you add on Ryanair's extras + cost of getting to city (even if you don't value your time), there was very little in it. Also, Norwegian are one of the few airlines not to charge you a debit card handling fee.

[davidjohnson6]

(Some of ) Summer 2013 seems to be on sale now

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Why are Norwegian classed as a LOCO?

This is because the term 'Low Cost [Airline]' refers to the cost element of the corporate balance sheet. It is NOT a reference to the fare structure.

Having a low cost base offers an airline the flexibility (but not the obligation) to sustain low fares. However, as businesses driven by the profit motive, such carriers will use revenue management strategies to maximise profits (from tariffs) just as any other carrier would do.

The frequently noted public belief that 'low cost carriers' by definition always offer low fares is probably the most widespread misconception in the airline industry. Tell your friends and family to check all fares offered on a desired route when booking flights; never assume that the 'LOCO' will be offering the cheapest deal to the customer.

[Ernest Lanc's]

Also, Norwegian are one of the few airlines not to charge you a debit card handling fee.

12 airlines agree to scrap last-minute debit card fees after OFT investigation | Business | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jul/05/airlines-scrap-debit-card-fees)

On that specific point of your post: even FR have agreed not to charge a debit card handling fee.

[davidjohnson6]

I find it remarkable how a partly off topic discussion can go quiet for 4 months, and people then feel the sudden need to resume the old discussion immediately...

[CabinCrewe]

Doesn't appear to be off topic and was quite interesting. If not interested, you can simply ignore.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

davidjohnson6 -

From your posting I can only presume that you consider me the person who "felt the sudden need to resume the old discussion immediately". The truth is much more straightforward than that. Until you pointed it out I hadn't spotted that the posting two before my own dated back to June. Sorry about that.

However, if the subject matter remains pertinent, should that elapsed time matter anyway? Is there a time-limit for valid contributions to debate on this thread and do you feel the sudden need to arbitrate on this?

On discussion boards we learn from discussion, not from comatose threads.

[davidjohnson6]

Arbitrate ? Definitely not - apologies if it seemed like that
Point out something that I find surprising ? Yes

Discussion as to what does or does not constitute a LCC is most definitely valid along with the general hybridisation of other carriers, but in my opinion is probably best discussed on a more general thread rather than just within the confines of Norwegian...

[crewmeal]

Congratulations to the ex BMIbaby pilots who are passing through NAS. I hope you have a great career with them. Good luck!

[j636]

New base at London Gatwick planned with 3 B737-800 aircarft. A base at ALC also not sure on number of aircraft there.

[LN-KGL]

Norwegian starts to fly twice weekly SVG-MAN-SVG on 1 April 2013

[Seljuk22]

The Alicante base will – in addition to already established bases at Malaga and Las Palmas – serve an important part of Norwegian’s Spanish traffic.

Newsdesk - Norwegian (http://media.norwegian.com/en/#/pressrelease/view/norwegian-opens-new-bases-of-operations-at-london-gatwick-and-alicante-806665)

Are these 'real' bases at AGP and LPA with based a/c and crew or just a night stop doing some w-pattern?

[Tom the Tenor]

May I ask for a quick reminder where SVG is, please?

Thanks.

[chaps2011]

SVG is Stavanger
Check all your IATA codes here
Welcome to World Airport Codes (http://www.world-airport-codes.com/)


Chaps

[Tom the Tenor]

Thanks for the info, gentleman. On my bad days when I cant remember anything at all I can get as far as ORK and it's all downhill after that!

Is it Norweigan's intention to keep on with their 737-300s for the foreseeable future or are they due to be dropped as some for new 737s/A320s come due for delivery?

Thanks, again. :)

[chaps2011]

LN-KGL is the man to tell you about the fleet as I know he has posted somewhere recently with a list of inbound and departures for the fleet incl
B787
Over to you LN-KGL

Chaps

[LN-KGL]

According to the latest information from Norwegian (info given in the Q3 result presentation) this is the fleet plan the next years. Let's first start with the status at the end of 2011
16x Boeing 737-30 and 46x Boeng 737-800
And here is the fleet size the next years (year end numbers):
2012 = 10x Boeing 737-300 and 58x Boeng 737-800
2013 = 9x Boeing 737-300, 68x Boeng 737-800 and 3x Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner
2014 = 5x Boeing 737-300, 79x Boeng 737-800 and 7x Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner
The lease of a number B733 has been extended since they can't get enough B738 fast enough from Boeing.

The recent news about SAS being in really deep **** can lead to a total turn around to the above mentioned fleet plan. I guess there is a Norwegian Air Shuttle manual on the shelf named "In case SAS goes bankrupt", and we may see Norwegian trying to hoover the B737 market.

[GnRdL]

Are these 'real' bases at AGP and LPA with based a/c and crew or just a night stop doing some w-pattern?
Yes, AGP and LPA are confirmed bases from this winter season. LPA: 2 aircrafts (seasonal base?); AGP: 1 aircraft. ALC has a night stop during the winter season and it will be base from next summer season.

[Stevek]

Is there a break down available of the B738 Sky Interior/old style?

[LN-KGL]

It will be easiest to point out aircraft without Sky Interior now

LN-DY_ - LN-DYA, LN-DYB, LN-DYC, LN-DYD and LN-DYE (LN-DYF was the first aircraft with Sky Interior in the Norwegian fleet)
LN-NO_ - all except LN-NOY and LN-NOZ

[Stevek]

Thanks for the info LN-KGL. More Sky Interior cabins than I thought. Hope to get one when I fly with Norwegian! :ok:

[j636]

Anyone think that DY barnd in the UK will cause LGW base closure after a shot period of time. EI tried most of the sun routes and failed and they would be better known in UK IMO.

[adfly]

I think they may keep it if they can find enough nordic routes to keep a few aircraft going if the force of fortress orange plus BA and the other locos and charters is not too much for them.

[LN-KGL]

Isn't the British more familar with red, white and blue colours then? It can even happen that the three Norwegian Air Shuttle based aircraft get famous British on their tales - like Roald Dahl - British novelist, short story writer, poet, fighter pilot and screenwriter with Norwegian parents?

Aircraft from the Gatwick base will also fly to Scandinavia.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23931688/Tabeller/DY_LGW_2013.jpg

In other words compared with S12 and W12/13, S13 will get an extra rotation produced with aircraft from the Gatwick base (yellow cells above). It looks like we have to wait until 16 November to get the times for the rest of the flights out of the Gatwick base.

We will see if Norwegian succeed with their focus on serving the British market that may or may not be fed up with low service no smile LCCs with partly tatty/tired aircraft that are not focusing on flying on time. British passengers flying to and from their Mediterranean or Canarian destinations aren't exactly used to be treated with free WiFi today?

[elgranma]

Does anybody know if the opening of the Lgw base could lead to the opening of more bases in the continental europe?

[Buster the Bear]

I am hearing yes from my sources, but gradual.

[elgranma]

well, since they bought 200 hundred aircrafts...

[LN-KGL]

More news to be expected tomorrow Thursday. A press conference will be held in Oslo at 11 - and this is the photo used in the invitation:

http://a2.mndcdn.com/image/upload/t_article_v2/opvudp8bkstjtu1zeyhigw.jpg

[LN-KGL]

Press Release from Norwegian November 8, 2012
Today Norwegian will commence the ticket sales for its long-haul flights to New York and Bangkok from Oslo and Stockholm. The company's first long-haul flight will take place between Oslo and New York on May 30, 2013; the first flight between Oslo and Bangkok is on June 1, 2013.

The first three weeks twice weekly return flights from OSL to JFK and BKK and twice weekly return flights from to ARN to JFK. From June 20, 2013 with the second B788 being delivered the schedules will be trice weekly from OSL to JFK and BKK and trice weekly return flights from to ARN to JFK and BKK.

[LNIDA]

IBZ added to Norwegians route list at LGW from May 25th:ok:

[bobsyerunlce]

Does anybody know when Norwegian will release their winter 2013/14 flights for sale

[LN-KGL]

w13/14 will be fully loaded by the end of April.

[majorni]

Anyone knows if Norwegian will open the route to FUE next winter, last time when the anounce the base from Gatwick, FUE was one of the routes, but at the moment is not on sale yet, anyione knows is they still plans to open this route

[PAXboy]

An interesting interview with the CEO and majority shareholder: BBC News - Norwegian airline prepares for global expansion (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21923866)

[LNIDA]

CPH LPL start on Friday thrice weekly, new European bases are rumoured I have heard 3 locations mentioned in recent weeks, but focus is on getting ALC & LGW up and running at present. I would expect to see more UK destinations served from the Canary Islands this coming winter.

[VickersVicount]

GLA might be a good fit for some Norwegian action. High leisure and less EZY/FR competition

[AirGuru]

CWL could be a good bet for Winter canary ops, no competition apart from the charter operators, and proven strong market to TFS, FUE and LPA !

[EZY7117LPL]

CPH LPL start on Friday thrice weekly, new European bases are rumoured I have heard 3 locations mentioned in recent weeks, but focus is on getting ALC & LGW up and running at present. I would expect to see more UK destinations served from the Canary Islands this coming winter.


What sort of locations, UK/others etc...?
Any rumours of expansion from LPL?
Does anyone know if LPL could become a base?
Canary Islands: With aircraft based in the canaries presumably?

[LAX_LHR]

Does anyone know if LPL could become a base?

With current loads and yields, along with the fact they would need to test the market more than just 3 weekly flights, I would say a base is unlikely in the short/medium term.

[VentureGo]

Quote:
CPH LPL start on Friday thrice weekly, new European bases are rumoured I have heard 3 locations mentioned in recent weeks, but focus is on getting ALC & LGW up and running at present. I would expect to see more UK destinations served from the Canary Islands this coming winter.
What sort of locations, UK/others etc...?
Any rumours of expansion from LPL?
Does anyone know if LPL could become a base?
Canary Islands: With aircraft based in the canaries presumably?
NEWCASTLE - Had a regular service to Oslo, Stavanger & Bergen in the 90's operated by BRAATHENS / SAS- All Daily 737 services. Region has strong business links as well as tourism. DFDS & FjordLine stopped Ferry route to Scandinavia, so I expect a regular LCC into Scandinavia would do well. Currently Wilderoe, SAS, fares are astrnomical ! Flybe have withdrawn from Bergen. All routes I suspect could do very well.

[LN-KGL]

I come from a small place between Bergen and Stavanger and I have had my fair share of North Sea crossings on the ferry heading for North Shields. But to be honest VentureGo, Newcastle was never my end destination on the Isles - only a start point to explore the rest. Nowadays the ferry trips from the west coast of Norway have been replaced with flights mainly to London airports (SVG-LHR/LGW, HAU-STN and BGO-LHR/LGW).

VentureGo, if you insist on flying with Norwegian you have two airports they are are flying to within 2.5 hour drive from Newcatle - EDI and MAN - and since would flying against the flow I'm certain the ticket prices will be lower than what Widerøe or SAS will try to charge you for at NCL.

[LN-KGL]

Norwegian establishes a new cargo company - this was the headline of today's press release from Norwegian. Further the press lease says: "Today, Norwegian only transports cargo within Scandinavia. The establishment of Norwegian Cargo means that Norwegian’s entire route network with over 120 destinations will be available for customers who need to transport goods."

Source: Newsdesk - Norwegian (http://media.norwegian.com/en/#/pressrelease/view/norwegian-establishes-a-new-cargo-company-858323)

[EI-A330-300]

Norwegian considers Ireland aircraft registrations / News / The Foreigner ? Norwegian News in English. (http://theforeigner.no/pages/news/norwegian-considers-ireland-aircraft-registrations/)

[TSR2]

It seems to me a bit late in the day for Norweigan to realise their cost base is too high for their ambitious plans.

[onyxcrowle]

Seeing how Peel convinced Norweigan to start from CPH.
What are the chanced of starting the same from Doncaster. DSA emailed me and implied a Hub route is imminent.
Seems that wed either get Ams or Cph.
CPH is a Hub isnt it?.
Seems par for the course for Dsa seem to keep missing the msrk in finding new airlines or sustainable routes. So rather than the obvious fokker 70 4 times a day and twice a day st weekends to Ams.
Is this a possibility.
I read they are looking at many more uk regional airports. As there arent that many with little competition at theor their loco level it seems to me to be a likely scenario.
Any thoughts on this or whar possible other routes rhey might do in those circumstances. And what possible additional LPL routes.

[LNIDA]

Given that we are already into the summer 13 season and that NAS have a further 6 or 7 new NG's due for delivery before the end of this year, then i think its likely that when the full Winter 13/14 program is on sale we may see further routes to the UK, most likely i think are to/from the Canary Islands, NAS will have 8 aircraft based between LPA/TFS and the reported plan is a near doubling of capacity when compared with last year. I suspect that more UK regional airports will see the Red Nose this winter on Canary routes, my guess would be EDI,MAN,LPL,BHX,CWL in addition to their expanding network at LGW.

[LN-KGL]

For now Norwegian Air Shuttle has flights to four UK airports and I think it will stay like that the next couple of years. Any further expansion in to UK we need to wait for the arrival of next generation of narrow bodies (737Max and A320neo).

More interesting was yesterday's press release:
"Norwegian and Virgin Atlantic with Dreamliner Cooperation
Norwegian Long Haul has signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with Virgin Atlantic. The agreement enables Norwegian to tap into Virgin Atlantic’s expertise on long-haul operations, while Virgin Atlantic’s instructors will receive pilot training on board Norwegian’s brand new 787-8 Dreamliner. Norwegian’s first Dreamliner is due for delivery at the end of June."

Source:
Newsdesk - Norwegian (http://media.norwegian.com/en/#/pressrelease/view/norwegian-and-virgin-atlantic-with-dreamliner-cooperation-864881)

[N707ZS]

Teesside, Durham Tees Valley passengers just waiting for flights. If anyone from Norwegian Air Shuttle reads this we want some routes!

[LN-KGL]

The Germans seems to get a Norwegian treatment from W13/14:

"Norwegian expands in the German market with flights between Germany and Spain

Norwegian Air Shuttle continues its European expansion. Today, the company announced that it will launch new routes from Hamburg, Cologne and Munich to several Spanish destinations this autumn."

Hamburg, Cologne and Munich are the three German airports that get Norwegian flights this time.

Source:
Norwegian - Norwegian expands in the German market with flights between... - Mynewsdesk (http://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/norwegian/pressreleases/norwegian-expands-in-the-german-market-with-flights-between-germany-and-spain-865562)

[True Blue]

NAS now seem to have released the bulk of W13 flights out of Lgw, with many of the new routes having services over the winter. They have a UK site, with Lgw as the main departure airport, but some of the destinations are not listed under Lgw, but with all destinations. Examples are IBZ, AGP and LPA. Would this not cost them bookings as some people would not think to look under the list of all destinations as opposed to those listed under Lgw? Would they not be better to fix this?

TB

[LNIDA]

I have to agree with you on that, although if you click flights, it then shows you all flights from LGW a further click on direct only will filter out flights using connections at say CPH OSL ARN there are now 22 direct flights from LGW on sale with FUE added to day starting in October twice weekly

[AirGuru]

As mentioned previously in this thread RE. Winter flights, the list provided LNIDA is a pretty good bet. CWL is in need of some scheduled winter flights to LPA and TFS, which could then easily move into the Summer of 2014.

[j636]

Newsdesk - Norwegian (http://media.norwegian.com/en/#/pressrelease/view/norwegian-expands-in-the-german-market-with-flights-between-germany-and-spain-865562)

12 new German routes.

[LN-KGL]

j636, you're almost six hours late :O

[True Blue]

There was a full page report in the business section of The Tmes on Saturday on Norwegian. In it, the Chief Exe, Bjorn Kjos seems to indicate that they will start flights ex Lgw to the Far East starting with Bangkok. No firm start given.

TB

[LN-KGL]

A pretty safe guess for BKK-LGW will be 2014 since DU will receive 4 of them next year.

[TSR2]

seems to indicate that they will start flights ex Lgw to the Far East starting with Bangkok. No firm start given.


Are they going ahead with the proposal to hire cheaper 'foreign' crews for their long haul flights?

[True Blue]

according to the article, yes.

TB

[David Sharpe]

I noted recently an article which mentioned a flight from Bodo to Antalya, which I note is not a scheduled route that can be booked through the website.

Presumably this is an IT flight undertaken on behalf of a Local Tour Operator ?

Does anybody have a rough indication of the percentage of flights that are undertaken on an IT basis in amongst the continued growth on the Scheduled Services and where the most popular IT services are to ?

[LN-KGL]

41 of 5842 DY flights from Norwegian Avinor airports in April were charter flights.

[davidjohnson6]

In the laat year or so, the more I read about Norwegian, the more I think of Air Berlin in about 2006. Company that is succesful in its core market which gets over confident in its business model and management and starts dabbling in lots of new business areas where it faces tougher competition all at the same time.

[Facelookbovvered]

From what i've read its seem that Norwegian Long Haul is a separate company from Norwegian Air shuttle, but i do take your point however to date they don't seem to have put a foot wrong and clearly have to grow outside of its home turf with the number of aircraft on order.

[captplaystation]

david,

as a NAS employee I hope of course your misgivings are unfounded, they are however shared by a few of us.

Time will tell, although the long-haul business model is a bit different to what Air Berlin tried to achieve, and every effort is being made to do it "on the cheap" (as anyone applying for 787 jobs will confirm :hmm:)

Hopefully the cost of the Duracell saga is Boeings problem, although I fear we haven't seen the last of 787 "glitches".

[No RYR for me]

Getting the same feedback as Dave... Their game plan was build around SAS collapsing.. which has not happened.. Let's see what happens..:cool:

[LN-KGL]

The DY game plan has never been built on a SAS collaps, but DY has had contingency plans ready in case competing airlines have to make deep cuts or even go out of business. The Cimber Sterling collaps in May 2012 triggered one of these plans. A SAS collaps on the other hand would have been utterly chaotic for Scandinavia. Norwegian would only have been able to cover for very small portion with their contingency plan. I think DY prefer to have SK as their prime opponent than other more difficult opponents.If we look at DY's growth the last ten year and compare these numbers with SAS, DY grew with over 17 million passengers (yearly rolling) while at the same time growth of SAS over ten last years was only a measly 100 000 passengers.

[LNIDA]

Well we find out soon enough with long haul only a few days away now, but of course on an elderly A340, it will provide some very interesting cost data for those with access in terms of A340 V B787.

In the meantime it looks like the Red Nosed B787 will be visiting some European airports as part of its shake down and crew training.

The whole low cost long haul debate is a red herring, no pun intended! few who who have travelled with Norwegian would describe it as low cost and that reflects in the high level of repeat business.

The Norwegian website shows some very good graphics of the interior of the B738 and the premium seating looks good value when compared with others, of course Norway is a extremely wealthy country and the brand is very well known.

They have of course taken a lot on this year with new bases in ALC LGW TFS in addition to long haul and recently the launch of Norwegian Cargo, the banking side of the company is also expanding into Sweden, this coming winter will be very important to NAS with substantial expansion on its key winter route to the Canary Isle's

[Skipness One Echo]

The whole low cost long haul debate is a red herring, no pun intended! few who who have travelled with Norwegian would describe it as low cost and that reflects in the high level of repeat business.
Slightly disingenuous I think....Remind me again where the crew and pilots are being sourced from for the B787 operation? Will they be experienced Scandinavian professionals?
They're aiming for a cost base as cheap as chips. They're a bit young to be doing a QANTAS vs Jetstar trick but already we see two companies and pay scales. The B787s aren't even being flown by DY.
B787 Captains Norwegian Long Haul A/S - Rishworth Aviation (http://www.rishworthaviation.com/Opportunity/1040/b787-captains-norwegian-long-haul-as.aspx)

[ATNotts]

Reported on ARD text this morning that Norwegian are expaning into Germany from this Autumn with routes to the Canaries and Med. destinations.

Report doesn't speculate on which German airports will benefit, and whether the aircraft will be away based.

[lfc84]

https://www.norwegian.com/neuestrecken

[LNIDA]

Well the on board product wont suffer because of the remuneration of the cabin crew or the fight deck, many of Norwegians flights are conducted by non Norwegians both for and aft of the cockpit door.

[LN-KGL]

And now some even have English as their first language.

[SixPin]

Hi guys. I'm thinking of applying for Norwegian 737 at one of the southern bases.

Would any of you be willing to chat to me about life in NAS?

[LNIDA]

Norwegians 7th 737-800 delivery this year arrived a couple of days ago new from the factory, with a further 7 new 737-800's due this years taking the fleet to 75 now and 82 by year end plus 3 dream-liners by year end.

[LNIDA]

Norwegian reports 22% increase in passengers numbers YoY for May with load factor up slightly and yield down slightly, capacity up 34% only one long haul flight operated in May.

[Jamie2k9]

Notice DY have registered their first B787 as EI-LNA, that will go down well in Norway!

[Skipness One Echo]

Notice DY have registered their first B787 as EI-LNA, that will go down well in Norway!
The race to cut ts and cs continues. The long haul operation is a seperately crewed operation on it's own certificate with crew sourced and based overseas. It's almost a virtual operation.

[mikkie4]

On their web site 787 operating from las palmas-gatwick via oslo on the 21st july

[LN-KGL]

mikkie4, EI-LNA will fly OSL-AGP-OSL-LGW-OSL on that Sunday, actually every Sunday between 4 Jul and 4 Aug.

Norwegian's one month long Dreamtour include flights from Oslo to the following destination:
Alicante - Mondays and Fridays
Barcelona - Mondays and Fridays
London/Gatwick - Thursdays and Sundays
Malaga - all days except Monday and Friday
Nice - Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Saturdays

[Iver]

Want to know more about Norwegian's strategy? Watch the video below (English subtitles provided)...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i5eWtViYSY

[LNIDA]

Norwegian is named Europe's best low-cost carrier by renowned Skytrax World Airline Awards. It is the passengers themselves who evaluates over 200 airlines worldwide in what is described as the most prestigious awards recognized in the airline industry. CEO Bjørn Kjos accepted the award during the Paris Air Show Tuesday morning.

[No RYR for me]

Want to know more about Norwegian's strategy? Watch the video below (English subtitles provided)...

Naaah I have been in the industry too long to believe company propaganda.... :cool:

[Hangar6]

EI-LNA reg delivered according to another forum , so EI reg going ahead...

[LN-KGL]

EI-LNA fly away from BFI is scheduled for 29 June. B1 was flown on 13 June - video here:
787 NORWEGIAN Air Shuttle Dreamliner First Flight. Cool Paint Job! - YouTube

9 days has now gone since this first flight and still no B2 has been flown. Boeing may be working on this bird?

[Jetjockey145]

Hello all.

Sorry to hijack this thread, but has anybody any info re the calibre of applicants for this new Dreamliner operation.

I recently applied via Rishworth. I have maybe 8500 hrs now of which 4500 hrs are on the B737. I am also NG qualified but have no wide bodied or long haul experience!

So far I have not heard a thing. It seems my present experience meets only the basic requirements for the job?? :ugh:

Does anybody here have any inside info?

Many thanks.:)

[LN-KGL]

Jetjockey145, you may find better answers here:
Nordic Forum - PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org/nordic-forum-72/)

[Jetjockey145]

Thanks for the heads up.

[Jetjockey145]

Phew!

They are a bit tetchy over on that thread! :rolleyes:

Wish I hadn't bothered. :ugh:

Still not a dicky bird from Rishworth, despite me significantly exceeding the min requirements.

They must have Dreamliner wannabes lining up in the streets! :confused:

Thanks again.

[LN-KGL]

They aren't always that rude. :rolleyes:

[LNIDA]

TRAFFIC FIGURES JUNE 2013 NORWEGIAN AIR SHUTTLE ASA
TRAFFIC DEVELOPMENT
The total number of passengers flown in June 2013 was 1 911 841 compared to 1 583 735 last year, an increase of 328 106 passengers (21 %).
Compared to the same period last year:
Total passenger traffic (RPK) increased by 35 % Total capacity (ASK) increased by 31 %
The load factor was 79.6 %, up 2.7 p.p.
The increase in passenger traffic, production and passengers is related to the Group’s expansion in established markets and to the introduction of new routes from July 2012 to June 2013, as well as adjustments to production capacity.
The production increase was driven by the establishment of new European short-haul bases and long-haul operations to North America and Southeast Asia. The new long and short-haul routes contributed positively to the load factor.
A third party industrial action in Norway last year had a negative effect on the comparable load factor for June.

[LN-KGL]

In June Norwegian turned a milestone - 19 million passengers the last 12 months.

There also a second milestone today - Norwegian flew the new B787 for the first time in revenue service. This first flight went from Oslo to Malaga, but right now the B787 EI-LNA is heading for LGW as DY1310 and it's less than half an hour to touch down.

[Charley B]

And very nice EI-LNA looked too:) Lovely to see that at LGW...it had a NAS Aircraft in front and behind it going down the approach..good advertising for NAS ..shall enjoy watching it depart soon as well:)

[LNIDA]

For FY2013, Norwegian plans an increase in ASK capacity of “in excess of 30%”, higher than the previously planned “in excess of 25%”. This will come from 14 additional 737-800s joining the fleet this year, increased short-haul utilisation and distances driven by the Gatwick and Spanish bases and the launch of long-haul operations. It plans to add a new base in Tenerife in the winter and is also reportedly talking to AENA about opening bases at Madrid and Barcelona in spring 2014 (El Confidencial, 12-Jun-2013).

I think you can probably add an additional base in the UK to that list from internal vibes.

[Bagmanlgw]

With he arrival of the 4th based B738 at LGW in September there are now rumours of up to 8 based for summer 2014 .

What new routes do we expect DY to be looking at from LGW on the short haul front ?

Would like to see some routes down to the Greek isles and Turkey to supplement their already growing route structure from LGW and give Easyjet some real completion on the sun holiday routes

Bagmanlgw

[Buster the Bear]

LNIDA, I was made aware some months ago of a second UK base, bizarrely it involved long-haul from an airport close to the M1!

I understand that the 787 can easily operate to destinations far away and the runway length is not an issue!

Thomson reckon the 787 can make Hawaii non-stop!

Nothing like a good (or bad) rumour!

[LNIDA]

A combination of new routes and increased frequency on med routes, LPA increase to 4 weekly from 1st of September with TFS starting around the same time.

The number of aircraft based in LPA/TFS this winter is now planned at 3/2 from 6/2 previously, but no change in flying program which is much larger than last winter implies more night stops and need for a further aircraft at LGW

NAS have reported an average load factor of 85% on LGW to Med+ LPA, so guess they will follow the loads

LGW has around 27 direct routes in October but some of the seasonal stuff stops or slows like IBZ PMI but frequency picks up elsewhere

[Cleared For A Coffee]

Rumour has it the two main North West airports are battling it out for that next 2nd UK base...

[globetrotter79]

...so definitely not BLK then?!

[kcockayne]

Has anyone any info. on the rumour that NAX are interested in operating Gatwick - Jersey after BEE quit ? I would have thought that a B737-800 was a little too big for the route 1
does anyone have any views ?

[flying officer kite]

Just to stir the rumour pot a little, Belfast City, who will lose their 4x daily service to Gatwick on the 195s next year, has now got B737 markings painted on a stand, yet no 737 operators fly there.. Odds that it is Norwegian, KLM, or Ryanair??

[farci]

I was made aware some months ago of a second UK base, bizarrely it involved long-haul from an airport close to the M1!
Blimey - EMA will struggle given its limited passenger facilities! :E

[j636]

Where are DY going to get the LGW slots from, we are talking around 25 extra slots if they plan to double base.

[LNIDA]

Well NAS still have a few 300's so JSY or BHD wouldn't be a problem, but they are due to be phased out, having said that they were due to be gone by now!

NAS have a preference for using air bridges so i think EMA is unlikely, if its not MAN then I think BHX is most likely, unless Jet2 get there before them? NAS have the aircraft with 6 or 7 new 738 due before Xmas and around 8 units due in 2014, long term i think BHX makes far more sense than EMA, Monarch,Jet2 & FR already provide huge lift to the MED. Monarch at BHX would be an easier target and Monarch customer base is much closer to Norwegian's than say FR.

BHX-ARN would be very easy for them, ditto GOT,OSL,HEL

NAS cost per seat is now below that of Easyjet (just) and have gone into LGW and added 176,000 pax in Q2 yoy, can't see it before S14 but they could run some Canary flights to test the water this winter?

[LAX_LHR]

if its not MAN then I think BHX is most likely


Would NAX go straight into BHX with a base, without testing the water at least?

Seems to be the norm that low costs try a couple of routes with non based aircraft first, and then go for a base. They only have this winter to test before the S14 date?

Its another reason why I don't see LPL being the base just yet. Whilst it would be a huge coup to snatch the base from the jaws of MAN, they only have 1 route at LPL which is currently being run with an incentive from CPH. It will be cut from 3 weekly to 2 weekly at the end of October, which is hardly encouraging news for setting up a base? However, at the same time:


NAS have a preference for using air bridges


This hardly put them off Liverpool did it?

[stuart hammond]

Buster, if as you say close to the MI motorway, the only airports would be EMA and LTN , with the extra terminal space due to open end of 2013, I put my 2p on EMA, I have a view that MAG will try long haul from EMA.regardsStuart

[EZY7117LPL]

I highly doubt that it will be EMA or LTN as NAS don't have any services from there already.

I think it is likely to be LPL. Why would they start a new service there recently if they had been at other airports first?

[LAX_LHR]

I think it is likely to be LPL


So from a 2 weekly flight to a 2 aircraft base? Quite hopeful!


Why would they start a new service there recently if they had been at other
airports first?


Incentives? CPH offered a subsidy for LPL don't forget.

[LNIDA]

Danish very keen on football, can't see Derby county having the same pull??

MAD & BCN are more important in the short term, that and growing LGW

[airadio]

Lax LHR I already told him that on his forum and was banned :E

[dc9-32]

I'm flying LGW-TFS in September with Norwegian. Currently planned for a B738. Any chance this might change to a B788 ?

[michalis1]

Guys does anybody know how long it takes for them to reply to an application, or do they reply??? i applied through Park Aviation for Captain 738 three week s ago but they didnt reply to me to say yes or no? anybody knows how it works with them???

[GustyOrange]

There's two massive football clubs in Glasgow. Would be nice to see NAS bring the Danes over to watch them play.

G

[cym]

Also all Swansea City matches are shown live across all of Denmark and the team have a huge following (prob spend a tad too much time there) as Michael Laudrup is a national celebrity and also Swansea's manager.

Who knows BLL and / or CPH to CWL

[Skipness One Echo]

There's two massive football clubs in Glasgow
Indeed, Celtic and Partick Thistle are iconic.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

I think it is likely to be LPL. Why would they start a new service there recently if they had been at other airports first?


:O :O :O :O :O :O

Meanwhile, back in the real world, you think it is likely to be LPL, with the only NAS presence being a route sponsored and subsidised by Copenhagen, reduced to two weekly, which has been known to have loads in the teens.

Yes, let's make a base, based on that stunning performance. :D

Get real. :ugh:

[Cleared For A Coffee]

To be fair stoneybridge, I have it on pretty good authority that LPL are currently in talks to start a further 8 routes next year (mostly bucket and spade)... Also that NAS are quite pleased with the operation out of Liverpool, despite the loads not being amazing (they never expected them to be on the copenhagen route).

However, by no means is anything concrete yet. NAS are also talking to Manchester by all accounts.

So yes, back in the real world... Sorry to burst your arrogant bubble

[chaps2011]

From another prune forum
its already been Decided and its not LJLA DAMN

[LAX_LHR]

To be fair stoneybridge, I have it on pretty good authority that LPL are
currently in talks to start a further 8 routes next year


LPL talking to NAX, well, one would hope so! Is it likely? As has been pointed out (but seems to be continently overlooked by the LPL supporters, seems to be a knack for that) is that LPL has 1 route, at 2 weekly from October (3 weekly only operates for a few months). Foundations for a base? Hardly.


despite the loads not being amazing (they never expected them to be on the
copenhagen route)


So, let me get this straight, you are trying to convince us that an airline started a route and expected it to perform poorly, and with the word never thrown in, obviously had no forecast to improve? And with 'expected' poor performance you still expect a base? Erm, ok?


NAS are also talking to Manchester by all accounts.

Again, one would hope so! But, at the end of the day, depends who is more desperate, Liverpool certainly needs NAX more than Manchester does.

[j636]

LAX, I think its a given that a sun route by DY anywhere in the UK will do well, they are doing CPH from LPL because I expect the financial benefit is higher than the cost of the route running. I don't think they will base their but loads on CPH mean very little as once us Brits can get to the sun we couldn't care who gets use their. If MAN is picked sooner or lather a carrier will exit MAN as their is only a certain amount of bucket and spade traffic sustainable at all airports and MAN is reaching the limits as are others. There was a gap to an extent for DY at LGW but something going to give at some point.

Its not the first time that DY have used incentive schemes to their advantage and once its up LPL-CPH will be dropped unless their is a surge in passenger numbers.

[LAX_LHR]

If MAN is picked sooner or lather a carrier will exit MAN as their is only a
certain amount of bucket and spade traffic sustainable at all airports and MAN is reaching the limits as are others


I wouldn't say MAN is reaching its limit quite yet. I did previously share this scepticism, but, take Palma for example.
There were already something like 14 flights on some days, but, Ryanair made MAN-PMI 2 daily and Jetairfly joined the fold this year, yet most MAN-PMI flights are heading out with loads of over 90%, some full.
It seems that on some routes, capacity can be added and it just keeps growing.

I would say that at the right frequency, there is easily more room for extra flights, as its also worth noting MAN still isn't quite back up to its heyday pax figures wise and there routes have always been its bread and butter.

In any case, a Norwegian base is not just about fun in the sun. There are routes to places like Helsinki, Trondheim, Gothenburg and Alesund that will be added, as well as extra capacity to Oslo and Stockholm, all routes that stand a better chance of working at MAN (Gothenburg for example really needs opening to the masses from MAN, currently BA run the route and the prices/capacity are more akin to a private jet!)

[The96er]

routes that stand a better chance of working at MAN (Gothenburg for example really needs opening to the masses from MAN, currently BA run the route and the prices/capacity are more akin to a private jet!)

Did EZY not try MAN-GOT for a while before giving up ?

[sunday8pm]

I wouldn't be so sure. EMA has a large catchment and is in a very convenient location for a lot of cities principally Nottingham, Leicester, Derby but also Sheffield, Stoke on Trent etc and is only held back by its terminal facilities, which MAG are of course currently spending money improving. EMA had a CPH service in 2008 and was flown by 28k that year; with catchment leakage on the route of 62k in 2011.

If anyone were to try longhaul from EMA, a weekly route to India would make sense.

[LNIDA]

I think its highly unlikely that NAS would consider EMA for long haul route start up, it has a big advantage cost wise over other more established airlines to go into a major airport that isn't slot restricted in terms of finding one slot a day off peak that also allows transfer traffic from other feeder routes, such an airport would be called LGW

[LAX_LHR]

Did EZY not try MAN-GOT for a while before giving up ?


They did, but, were up against a slightly lesser priced and slightly higher capacity of City Airline (Skyways) at the time, and probably had minimal brand awareness.
Now its just a high fared BA flight and as for brand awareness, I doubt NAX has that issue in GOT.

[sunday8pm]

I'd agree with that, although thats not to say there isnt money to be made for the right carrier on a route to India or Pakistan from EMA.

[Ringwayman]

I thought easyJet canned the whole of their GOT operation out of the UK i.e. not MAN specific?

[EZY7117LPL]

I highly doubt that it will be EMA without them starting some sort of service out of there first.

Actually the Liverpool to Copenhagen loads have got a lot better and are quite good now, I'd say it was 70-80% both ways today.

[airadio]

So that why they are dropping to two weekly, i see it all now:rolleyes:

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Actually the Liverpool to Copenhagen loads have got a lot better and are quite good now, I'd say it was 70-80% both ways today.

Very interesting. You're basing your statement on casually observing and counting people getting on and off one day of operations, or do you actually have anything factual and informative to share with us with regard to their loads and trends ?

If we're going to rely on casual observations, I'll give you mine. Outbound from LPL, there were about 30 onboard. On our return, the flight was cancelled, apparently due to a tech aircraft ( and who are we to suspect any other reason?), and all 11 :eek: of us were re-routed to MAN via ARN.

Truthfully, loads ex LPL remain dire. The main demand continues to come from the CPH end, but to date I have seen little evidence of LJLA fulfilling its part of the deal to actively market the route at the Liverpool end. Epic fail; LJLA get given a subsidised route on a plate then seemingly do nothng to help make the route viable !

[StoneyBridge Radar]

To be fair stoneybridge, I have it on pretty good authority that LPL are currently in talks to start a further 8 routes next year (mostly bucket and spade)... Also that NAS are quite pleased with the operation out of Liverpool, despite the loads not being amazing (they never expected them to be on the copenhagen route).

However, by no means is anything concrete yet. NAS are also talking to Manchester by all accounts.

So yes, back in the real world... Sorry to burst your arrogant bubble


For goodness sake, of course LPL are talking to NAS. I would be wanting heads on sticks if they weren't talking to NAS and every other possible carrier. Talking though is very far from "agreeing contractual terms," which is the point at which I start taking interest.

Do you not think MAN, EMA, BPL, BHX, LBA et al are all doing the same ? :ugh:

NAS will remain "happy" with an underperforming route as long as that route is in receipt of subsidy or artificial support. No one (except one vociferous LJLA supporter) denies the route is being subsidised presently. The real litmus test will be the ensuing months after that subsidy expires when the route has to stand on its own success. I remain dubious.

As for arrogance, I'm not sure why you sense that. If my delivery of the facts as they presently are comes across as arrogant, I will endeavour to change my tone for you. :ok: What I won't stop is stating fact, no matter how uncomfortable that might be for some.

[LN-KGL]

sunday8pm, Sterling flew both to CPH and OSL in 2007 + 2008 and the result was 5 555 + 26 011 passengers to/from CPH and 3 291 + 13 602 passengers to/from OSL. I was one of the passengers from EMA to OSL on 29 October 2007, and I would say the passenger loads on bord OY-MRH that day was shockingly low. Sterling failed miserably on the flights to EMA, not so much on loads as on yields. EMA was certainly a contributing factor for why Sterling had to file for bankruptcy and ceased to operate on 29 October 2008. I don't think Norwegian will like to end the same way, and therefore shun EMA like the plague.

I will agree with StoneyBridgeRadar's comment about the CPH-LPL route. In May the route had an average cabin load below 40%, and under normal conditions this route would have been classified as "been there, done that" route. The only UK airports that Norwegian can link to Scandinavian destinations with a profit right now are LGW, EDI, MAN, ABZ and perhaps BHX. The number of UK airports that can be served from the Spanish DY bases however is not as few as from Scandinavia.

[conflier]

"As for arrogance, I'm not sure why you sense that."

I wont use the smilles that some members are so fond of but I've not had such a good laugh for a long time.

[sunday8pm]

Appreciate the sentiment and certainly some of the more peripheral European city destinations would be rather fragile. EMA is a better airport than it was in 2008 though and I believe could sustain traffic to Denmark and Sweden were DY willing to test the water.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

I wont use the smilles that some members are so fond of but I've not had such a good laugh for a long time.

Always happy to entertain the lurkers. Would be great if they contributed something to the debate rather than, as they tend to looking at their historical posting, just popping up intermittently with one liners.

[pug]

I may be mistaken, however a rough working out of the passenger figures for the LPL-CPH route in June (based on 8 return flights using a B738) shows a load factor of barely 30% :eek:

If there is any truth to the rumour of NAS considering LPL as UK base no. 2, it surely doesn't inspire confidence?

[AndyH52]

For goodness sake, the route has been operating for barely 10 weeks, mainly in the closed season given its target football market and you're writing it off already!

[lplsprog]

The route was put in because Norwegian were not sure that LPL could reach their turnaround targets, up to now they have achieved 100%. Load factors are not a concern at the moment and the route is subsidised from the Danish end.
By the way LPL have achieved 96% for EZY, MAN 64% so they'll have to get their finger out or they may not get any more routes until they do.

[LAX_LHR]

Load factors are not a concern at the moment


Ah, don't worry dear bean counters. We know the loads are averaging 30-40% per month, and the majority of fares struggle to get off the initial base rate, but at least we have 100% punctuality. We worry not of making money, just turnarounds. Reality check needed


By the way LPL have achieved 96% for EZY, MAN 64% so they'll have to get
their finger out or they may not get any more routes until they do.


Ah, so that explains fully why MAN is now a bigger base. Growing faster. Just gained another ex-LPL route. All make sense now. Ive said it before, if this is the level of expansion easyjet puts in if they re unhappy, it would be great to see the OTP improve just to see the mammoth scale of expansion it would apparently bring. :ok:

[LNIDA]

Of course load factor and yield are critical if a route is to last, this route utilises a gap in the flying program and I suspect it is underwritten from the CPH end of things

NAS are very focused on both punctuality & regularity, the latter means we very very rarely cancel a planned flight unless its exceptional circumstances & performance is reported in a live open format in most crew rooms, on our internal web site base by base, so today of 455 scheduled departures 439 have already departed 46 experienced a delay >15 min & the other 16 have yet to depart.

If price doesn't drive volume then no amount of marketing will, we use price to get people to try our airline, the product is not well known in the UK and people have low expectations based on the previous offerings in the UK LoCo market, we know we are streets ahead of the likes of Ryanair & EasyJet and the other UK operators in terms of customer satisfaction, but we are not well known and that takes time, LGW is proving to be a huge success and we are ramping up to 330 departures a week over the next 3 months or so, so a couple of rotations to LPL is neither here or there in the big scale of things, but it will work or be chopped if we are paying for it.

[PPRuNe Pop]

OK guys, you know what? I am closing this thread because there is so much gossip, guesswork and non-factual BS on here, and I am getting complaints about it, that you all need a rest from it. DON'T start another one until I give the OK. Any attempts to do so will be its end and of the one who does so.

Just relax for a while and ponder the rubbish that people have been posting. There is a limit and it has been reached.

PPP