Black triangle - Humber (revisited) [Archive]

harrogate

8th Jan 2009, 09:03

Hi.

I started a thread on here last month about how I'd spotted what was blatantly a UAV operating along the coast of Lincolnshire near Donna Nook. It was about 3am and I was out on the shore not far from Conisholme when I saw it.

I didn't divulge full details on the boards here at the time, just because of the usual **** you get on here when you mention something like that, but I had a good chat with some folks by PM. Suffice to say, what I saw really was very un-mysterious and clearly 'of this world'.

I was told I may have seen a Typhoon etc etc, but I see them daily and I know what I'm looking at when it comes to 'regular' military planes. I've lived on the doorstep of RAF installations my whole life.

But anyways, this story is making big news today and I'm wondering what people think.

BBC NEWS | England | Lincolnshire | UFO claim over wind farm damage (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/7817378.stm)
UFO hits wind turbine | The Sun |News|UFOs (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/ufos/article2108149.ece)

The wind farm is, by pure coincidence, at Conisholme.

And just for the record, I don't think for a minute that a flying saucer caused this, nor am I saying a UAV smashed into the turbine. Just pondering.

And in case any journos are reading - no, I'm not gonna talk to you. There are plenty of folks who've seen these around here just lately. Rational witnesses are easy to find, but I apppreciate that sweet little old ladies with digital cameras talking about flying octupus-like creatures from Mars will sell more papers.

Flarkey

8th Jan 2009, 10:32

To quote a popular song by the C+C Music Factory...

Things that make you go 'hmmmmmm...?'

Lyneham Lad

8th Jan 2009, 10:36

The BBC report includes:-

The Ministry of Defence said it was not looking into the incident.

A spokesman said: "The MoD examines reports solely to establish whether UK airspace may have been compromised by hostile or unauthorised military activity.

"Unless there's evidence of a potential threat, there's no attempt to identify the nature of each sighting reported."

Not investigating because they know the culprit was neither hostile nor unauthorised? :E

Gainesy

8th Jan 2009, 10:50

Idle curiosity, why were you out on the coast at 3am?:confused:

barnstormer1968

8th Jan 2009, 10:54

I think that this is conclusive proof of UFO's

Yes, this is the first evidence of Unhindered Fan Obliterators:}

SpringHeeledJack

8th Jan 2009, 11:14

Idle curiosity, why were you out on the coast at 3am?

Come on Gainsey, keep up with the times. Dogging is so last year, it's obvious that he was out 'codding' :E

Additionally the culprit appears atop the photo of the turbine in The Sun's article and it appears to be the figure from 'The Saint'. Times are hard and a (pipe-cleaner) mans gotta do what he can to make ends meet..

SHJ

TEEEJ

8th Jan 2009, 11:29

Why ponder about it? If you believe that the two stories are not linked then why not just post on your original thread?

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/354311-black-triangle-humber.html

Wind Turbine damage through blade and structural failures.

http://www.caithnesswindfarms.co.uk/accidents.pdf

Wind Turbine Accident data

'Blade failure

By far the biggest number of incidents found were due to blade failure. “Blade failure” can arise from a number of possible sources, and results in either whole blades or pieces of blade being thrown from the turbine. A total of 139 separate incidences were found:

Pieces of blade are documented as travelling over 400m, typically from much smaller turbines than those proposed for use today. In Germany, blade pieces have gone through the roofs and walls of nearby buildings. This is why CWIF believe that there should be a minimum distance of at least 2km between turbines and occupied housing – in line with other European countries - in order to adequately address public safety and other issues including noise and shadow flicker.

.....

Structural failure

From the data obtained, this is the third most common accident cause, with 60 instances found. “Structural failure” is assumed to be major component failure under conditions which components should be designed to withstand. This mainly concerns storm damage to turbines and tower collapse. However, poor quality control, lack of maintenance and component failure can also be responsible.'

Watch the UFO media call 'cover up' when the fault is found to be a mechanical failure?!

AR1

8th Jan 2009, 11:43

I saw a black triangle in the Humberside area a few years ago.:ok:

sunshine band

8th Jan 2009, 11:48

It must have been the Police helicopter that clipped the windfarm as it was following you at 3am to the shoreline as you tried to bury the bodies of the aliens that crashed a few weeks ago...

Surely, if you know the rotation speed of the turbine and look closely enough at the damage to the blades, you can work out the speed that the "object" went through the blades at??? Any keen aircrew students want to work that one out for teacher???

SB

Flarkey

8th Jan 2009, 12:07

Surely, if you know the rotation speed of the turbine

Does that not depend on the windspeed at the time...?

Oh, and don't call me Shirley.

TEEEJ

8th Jan 2009, 12:25

What the little old lady witnessed.

UFOs crashing into wind farms: has the Guardian solved the mystery? | Media | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/organgrinder/2009/jan/08/windpower-thesun)

'Emily Bell, would like to make it clear that her family had no part in damaging any of those 65ft multimillion-pound turbine blades - but she can help explain those "massive balls of light with tentacles going right down to the ground", as one onlooker described them to the Sun.

Those mysterious lights were actually the fireworks Emily's brother Tim had bought at the local garden centre for the 80th birthday party of dad Peter Bell. "It was a medium-sized fireworks display with absolutely no ballistics, and the fireworks were mostly dropping over my parents' house. But we were laughing that we could have broken the wind turbine," jested Emily.'

AR1

8th Jan 2009, 12:52

"massive balls of light with tentacles going right down to the ground"

Sounds like they're using WP on Humberside now!

Co-Captain

8th Jan 2009, 12:53

YouTube - Windmill/Wind Turbine Explosion (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7nSB1SdVHqQ)

The above shows a windmill self destructing in a gale.

In the last few weeks there's barely been a breath of wind.

Curiouser and curiouser... :confused:

Grys Dweizelschidt

8th Jan 2009, 12:59

Sounds like they're using WP on Humberside now!South of the river is called Lincolnshire, but the use of WP wouldn't go amiss...........

harrogate

8th Jan 2009, 13:55

Teej - I tried posting on the original thread twice this morning, but after I submitted the post, the thread remained unchanged on both occasions. It doesn't appear to be locked, so I just assumed it was some admin related jiggery-pokery preventing more posts being added.

Back to the plot, I'm still only pondering the issue. It's probably no coincidence that it was the coldest night of the year so far (at that point) on the night the turbine failed, so we're probably looking at ice/temperature related failures, because there wasn't a breath of wind that night. This also means the blades wouldn't have been turning much - if at all - so it's possible falling chunks of ice could've come into play somewhere. There had been some light rain during the day too, so there could conceivably have been some substantial ice formations on the turbines. The talk in the papers of a 'missing' blade is nonsense. Just because the alleged witnesses didn't see it, doesn't mean it wasn't there. It was there. Laid on the ground close by.

They claim to be certain that the blades struck something. It could have been blade-on-blade or ice hitting the blades, but it'll be interesting to see if they think the failure was caused by a contact, rather than a contact being a side effect of the failure.

I'm personally not interested in UFO claims and all that crap. But I do like to ponder some slightly more feasible theories.

As for being out on the shoreline at 3am as mentioned in my first post, as I said in PMs to other members when I first posted, we were awoken by the sound of a flotilla of tugs in the Humber estuary. We had no idea what the hell the noise from their engines was. After at first thinking it was out plumbing or heating, we went outside and noticed it coming from the direction of the sea. We hopped in the car and were completely underwhelmed when we realised it was just ship engines. I've never noticed the sound carry as well as it did that night. But that's when we saw the UAV. Quite unremarkable in many ways, but almost definitely a UAV. It was well lit in the moonlight and we watched it for probably 2 minutes until it went out of view. No lights, slow, not high and not much sound, but not a 'regular' plane.

glad rag

8th Jan 2009, 18:25

Not uav's or ufo's but had the same surprising sound propagation from the Middle of the Firth of Forth when the Navy were surveying out in the firth. Turns out a stratum of rock ran out from the middle of the firth and under Cellardyke and the sound from the geological survey carried along that.

Out Of Trim

8th Jan 2009, 18:38

Maybe the flying "Triangle" was one of these:-

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/tanaris/images/7-raven-aircraft.jpg

Bae must be testing them somewhere?

Razor61

8th Jan 2009, 19:10

Aren't UAV operations limited to airspace which is NOTAM'd for their operation?
For example, when BAE Systems are testing various UAV's around Barrow and Campbeltown, NOTAM's have been posted showing the area they are testing them.
There are some issued now:-
"RESTRICTED AREA (TEMPORARY) AT WALNEY ISLAND, CUMBRIA FOR A UAV TRIAL
WI THE AREA BOUNDED BY STRAIGHT LINES JOINING SUCCESSIVELY THE
FOLLOWING POINTS- blah blah blah"

I can't see a UAV whizzing around some of the most congested military airspace in the UK (Lincolnshire) without some kind of notice to other airmen, surely? OR Can they?

The only specified UAV operating airspace overland which will be permanent is that i thought being 'set up' south of SPTA for the Watchkeeper in a few years time.

The UFO spotters seem to be in overdrive around Lincolnshire lately, even spotting strange lights over Donna Nook.... where flares were being tested.

harrogate

8th Jan 2009, 19:29

The controlled low level airspace of a weapons range at 3am could conceivably be regarded as a relatively safe bet without a NOTAM though, maybe? But why not NOTAM it? Don't see the need to keep it secret really, unless they're doing something they don't really want us to know about I suppose. But what could be so secret about using a UAV over the land in the UK, other than flying it around? Can't imagine it'd be anything too exciting.

The wind farm lies slap bang on the 'commute' from Donna to Waddington. Bang on it. It's intriguing, but just an observation.

For the record, the delta Raven looks a hell of a lot like what we saw.

TEEEJ

8th Jan 2009, 19:47

Looking at the images it looks like Lesley Whittingham has witnessed a Sundog. A simple combination of unrelated events that has resulted in a media flap.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/01/08/article-1108973-02FB7382000005DC-574_468x327.jpg

'Lesley Whittingham (71), from Jerusalem Cottages, Alkborough, described seeing bright orange and yellow tints in the air at around 1.30pm on Saturday.
"It looked like a giant explosion in the sky and I was really surprised," she said. Mrs Whittingham watched from her upstairs window with her husband Frank (78) as the stationary object was seen for five minutes before mysteriously disappearing.

"I saw my next-door neighbour and pointed it out, but by that time it was fading," she added.After grabbing her camera to catch the phenomenon on film, Mrs Whittingham said she showed the pictures to her friends who were also stumped as to what it could be. "It's my first UFO sighting but it reminds me of planes hitting in wartime," she added'

Sun dog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_dog)

YouTube - Sundog Splendor! with Deep Heaven by David Nevue (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fMSnDKnNiI4)

Lima Juliet

8th Jan 2009, 20:11

Could be one of these...

http://www.declarepeace.org.uk/captain/murder_inc/site/pics/uavsnap1.jpg

or one of these...

http://www.darpa.mil/j-ucas/X-47/gallery/X-47A/low_res/189-359H.jpg

or one of these...

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/251/fliur3jf.jpg

As you can see, every nation is at it and they're flying right now. The big BAeS birds (Raven, Corax and soon Teranis) are flown at Woomera (the old British space program testing ground), Australia. Why? Because the Campaign Against Aviation (CAA) are once again the blocker to both military and commercial UAV development flying in the UK... It makes me :yuk:

All the best

LJ

harrogate

8th Jan 2009, 21:22

The f*cking amateur morons at ITN are still banging on about a missing turbine blade on the ten o'clock news.

It was not missing. It was there, at the foot of the turbine. One old lady said she couldn't see the blade, and that's enough for ITN to put out a story saying the blade's gone.

The Beeb at least try and get the facts right about stuff more than not (even though they often fail miserably), but ITN don't care about getting to the truth. Heaven forbid the facts should get in the way of a good story.

ITN is really, really horribly bad.

harrogate

8th Jan 2009, 21:49

... Channel 5 are competing for the title of worst newscasters now.

They reckon the wind turbine was in Lancashire.

Unless... jesus! It's an invasion!

Head for the hills!

Lancashire's flat and Lincolnshire's got the hills, right?

Double Zero

8th Jan 2009, 21:50

I am completely open - minded about UFO's. and have seen something I can't explain...

I am currently working with Tangmere Military Aviation Museum, trying to help catalogue over 5,000 books - AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC - with separate headings including pilots' notes .

I came across a book entitled ' Flying Saucers' and remarked, " if we've got the pilots' notes on this one we're really onto something ! "

As to the wind turbine being damaged, well anyone truly 'green' will see that they are a complete waste of time,& not green at all when one considers the production process and ALL that entails - including the workers driving to the factory, and the maintenance by Landrover or motor-boat.

So maybe this turbine - smashing UFO was not a prat from Warton or northern RAF, just an alien with a sense of aesthetic taste ( like caravans, why at least can't they paint the bloody things green ? ) ?!

Lurking123

9th Jan 2009, 06:55

LJ, please tell us how Germany, Sweden etc are less restrictive than the CAA?

On the other hand, don't bother. The vast majority of nations apply the 'segregated airspace' principle. It is only the Americans who allow manned/unmanned aircraft to mix; even then it is only in controlled airspace.

dunkyb

9th Jan 2009, 07:00

Looks like The Sun still reads Pprune.

But Ministry of Defence insiders offered an intriguing explanation last night and said the UFOs are a secret unmanned stealth bomber on test flights.

Close encounters of the turbine | The Sun |News|UFOs (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/ufos/article2112641.ece)

Unless of course, they know something I don't.

Gainesy

9th Jan 2009, 07:24

Can you imagine the briefing?

"Right lads, the next sortie is a 250 light-year round trip."

"Where we goin Boss?"

"Grimsby".

Stunned silence.

Red Line Entry

9th Jan 2009, 07:48

Gainsey,

Thank you for a coffee-ruined keyboard - at least now I understand why they don't do landaways!

diginagain

9th Jan 2009, 08:05

Stumpy creatures with wrinkly, pallid skin wandering around Grimsby aimlessly, pointing at traffic-lights and uttering gibberish.

Would anyone notice?

AR1

9th Jan 2009, 08:46

Well being pedantic, if its flying and you can't identify it, then its an 'Unidentified Flying Object.
Trouble is everybody thinks Flying Saucer, but then again if you identify it as a saucer, its no longer unidentified...

Hedgestumbler

9th Jan 2009, 12:26

If it WAS a UAV - where's the wreckage ?
A thump from a turbine blade would spoil its whole day (night?) I'd have thought ...

muggy73

9th Jan 2009, 12:47

Well have you seen the triangular shaped delivery that arrived on the back of a lorry at Boscombe recently.......

TEEEJ

9th Jan 2009, 13:59

Oh dear. Nick Pope at it again!

UPDATE: Nick Pope on tentacled wind turbine UFO - a secret Russian connection? - Louth Leader (http://www.louthleader.co.uk/news/UPDATE-Nick-Pope-on-tentacle.4858373.jp)

'Nick Pope said: "Looking at the geography of the Louth area, taking in the coast, it is always possible some people could be seeing secret Russian reconnaissance aircraft, perhaps even unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). The Russians could have a new secret craft which they are using to probe at our defences so I think we should be looking into this, and the MOD should be involved." '

It must have been all that iced up plasma stealth dripping off and striking the turbine! :rolleyes:

TJ

8-15fromOdium

9th Jan 2009, 14:06

According to the Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/4206116/UFO-turbine-mystery-the-theories-in-full.html) in an article on what may have caused the wind turbine to break:

Hit by an aircraft
Lincolnshire has many air force bases and other airfields, and RAF Scampton, where the Red Arrows are based, is close to the wind farm. But experts say the plane would have come off worse in any collision, and no wreckage was found at the site. No local planes have been reported damaged or missing, although the MoD has said that a new type of unmanned stealth bomber, the Taranis, was being tested in the area.

I doubt the last sentence, it would entail the highly unlikely event of BAe being ahead of schedule :}

TEEEJ

9th Jan 2009, 14:13

I found this while having a look through the media.

'JUST over 40 years ago in a field near Newbury something ‘landed’ which caused an international sensation.

The metallic, saucer-shaped object which emitted a loud beeping noise prompted an investigation by AWE Aldermaston boffins, caused a sensation in the world’s media and triggered a tense stand-off between local police and US Air Force personnel.

The mystery deepened when several similar objects were found at sites across the south - all spread in a line along the same latitude.
Eventually, as panic began to spread over the ‘alien invasion’ a group of apprentices at the Royal Aircraft Establishment in Farnborough confessed ....'

Newbury Today | Newbury's 'alien landing' reinvestigated (http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article.aspx?articleID=8760)

Remember the ?67 UFO student hoax? - Special features - News - getbracknell - Bracknell Forest Standard (http://www.getbracknell.co.uk/news/special_features/s/2041291_remember_the_67_ufo_student_hoax)

MostlyHarmless

9th Jan 2009, 14:19

Good spoof! Shame that if they tried that today they'd be tried and convicted under some Terrorist thingamy :(

BEagle

9th Jan 2009, 14:23

Ah yes, I remember seeing the news story on the local TV - inquisitive Plod looking very worried when the saucer started bleeping at him!

A few years later, a mate at university (he'd been at BAC Brooklands at the time) told me that the hoaxers got themselves into rather deep and smelly stuff as the RAE didn't think it was very funny...

Everyone else did!

Razor61

9th Jan 2009, 14:33

http://www.declarepeace.org.uk/captain/murder_inc/site/pics/uavsnap1.jpg

Is that a new and improved V-1 Doodlebug? :E

BEagle

9th Jan 2009, 14:58

Nein!

Es ist das EADS Barracuda. Und es ist kein doodlebug! Its Satnav is not programmed only for London....or Warsaw....it has other destination options.

First one crashed (shame). Second one is due to test in Q2 2009.

taxydual

10th Jan 2009, 06:58

At last! An answer to the mystery!!

Matt cartoons witty political cartoons and satirical sketches - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/matt/)

Ahh. the cartoon's changed so the link is not relevant any more.

Basically, it was a Matt cartoon of the bladeless wind tower with a policeman explaining 'the mystery of the Ronaldo Porsche crash'. Oh, never mind. It loses something in the telling...............

green granite

16th Jan 2009, 10:00

Perhaps it was one of these :E

file:///C:/Users/john/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpghttp://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/orangeherald/triangles.jpg

Double Zero

16th Jan 2009, 18:43

When working with a Test Range, our Flight Test dept asked if there was any paint scheme, such as dayglo,for test aircraft which might make the optical trackers' job easier.

The answer was a distinct " no, everything always looks black from the ground whatever you try".

An early visual 'stealth' project involved fitting active lights on fighters - the Test Pilot who described it reckoned it surprisingly successful.

TEEEJ

16th Jan 2009, 23:10

Quite an interesting declassified report. Very little has been edited out before declassification.

The report highlights advice to pilots 'No attempt should be made to out-manoeuvre a UAP during interception'

'Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) in the UK Air Defence Region'

Ministry of Defence | Freedom of Information | Publication Scheme | Search Publication Scheme | Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) in the UK Air Defence Region (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/FreedomOfInformation/PublicationScheme/SearchPublicationScheme/UnidentifiedAerialPhenomenauapInTheUkAirDefenceRegion.htm)

Ministry of Defence | Freedom of Information | Publication Scheme | Search Publication Scheme | UAP in the UK Air Defence Region: Executive Summary (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/FreedomOfInformation/PublicationScheme/SearchPublicationScheme/UapInTheUkAirDefenceRegionExecutiveSummary.htm)

Ministry of Defence | Freedom of Information | Publication Scheme | Search Publication Scheme | UAP in the UK Air Defence Region: Volume 1 (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/FreedomOfInformation/PublicationScheme/SearchPublicationScheme/UapInTheUkAirDefenceRegionVolume1.htm)

'UFO Reports in the UK

UFO Reports 1997-2007 in the UK, showing dates and times, location and a brief description of sighting.'

Ministry of Defence | Freedom of Information | Publication Scheme | Search Publication Scheme | UFO Reports in the UK (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/FreedomOfInformation/PublicationScheme/SearchPublicationScheme/UfoReportsInTheUk.htm)