MEP and IR renewal in Florida

[EIDW RJ85]

Im going to be in Florida later this year and with my ME/IR and MEP ratings due to expire in March, I was wondering can it be renewed in the states. Would be great to get it done while im over there. I was told a good while ago that you need to obtain the "INITIAL" IR in a JAR country on a JAR A/C with a JAR examiner .... BUT for the renewal you just need a JAA examiner.

Can anyone supply clarification on this point and also is there anyone who has done this??

Cheers :ok:

[cambridge]

You can renew both in Florida. OBA at Ormond Beach have a British JAA MEP/IR examiner. They have a Seminole and a Seneca.

[BigGrecian]

The examiners don't work for any school they are independent - or so they should be - you can use any aircraft you want, and then contact them individually.

Both of these examiners live in Vero Beach, FL - so I'd suggest contacting them, or a European school near there.

[fred737]

BG & Cambridge,

Are you saying that it is OK to revalidate a UK CAA MEP(L) and IR(SPA) on an N registered aircraft?

NB I think RJ85 meant revalidate (yearly LPC / IR) not renew (over 5 years since a revalidation)

[KFTW]

Hi,
Can i revalidate JAA ME-IR in Canada?any info please.

Happy new year
Regards,
KFTW

[Keygrip]

fred737 - YES you can revalidate/renew on any suitable N reg - no need to be a JAA school.

KFTW - YES - you can do it in Canada - if you can find an examiner, or bring one to you.

fred737 - revlidate is continuation of the rating BEFORE it expires.

Renewal is getting the rating back if it has expired by more than one microsecond of the date in the licence page.....five years is not relevant in this case.

All the above is based on UK CAA rules (not JAR). Any other member state of JAA - could well be slightly different.

[EIDW RJ85]

Ah sweet .. thanks for the advice guys. I have recieved a couple of PM's so thanks for that also! Just to clarify my IR is still current until march of this year so im looking to revalidate it. Great news that I can combine some hour building with the renewal.

@ Keygrip .. You say there is a difference between renewal and revalidation. Is there a difference in the tests say if I do the test the day before the expiry date on my licence or if I do the test the day after? I only ask as mine is due for renewal in March but I may not get over until April or May due to work constraints, tho if there is a big difference I will make an extra effort to get it done before the renewal date.

Cheers!:ok:

[Keygrip]

I say again that all my ramblings are for the UK CAA - which is not JAR compliant.

Which member state are you dealing with for licence issue? I suspect it's the IAA in Dublin - rules is ever so slightly different there.

If you wish to accelerate this conversation, PM me and then we'll switch to e-mail, or just wait for one question at a time every time one of us logs onto PPRuNe.

I'll give you all the help you need.

=^..^=

<<edit: Before any of you ask what you *CAN* do, you must first ascertain exactly what you *WANT* to do.

Is the flight a revalidation (rating still current).
Is the flight a renewal (rating expired by even one day)
Is the flight for class rating privileges. (SPA/MEP or SPA/SEP)
Is the flight for instrument rating privileges (IR-SPA-MEP or IR-SPA-SEP)
Is the flight for both ratings at the same time.
Which member state is the actual pilot licence issued under.

Then....we can start working out what, if any, training and/or testing you need to do to comply with the relevant requirements.

The UK version of the flight profile completion record is http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FORSRG1157.pdf

It may take some decoding on your behalf.

end edit>>

[EIDW RJ85]

Cheers Keygrip. PM sent! :ok:

[fred737]

Keygrip,

Thanks for the info on revalidating on an N registered a/c.
Also for correcting me on revalidation/renewal.

A couple of follow ons. If one's licence was JAR (rather than UK CAA) could one revalidate MEP(L) and I/R SPA on a N registered a/c?

If one's rating was over 5 years out of date, is it still a renewal (albeit more involved)?

Fred

[Keygrip]

fred - you misunderstood my (possibly unclear) comments on the UK CAA.

A JAA licence, issued by the UK CAA, is just the same as a JAA licence issued by another member state - however, the revalidation and renewal rules followed by the UK CAA are different to some other member states.

An examiner with the UK authorities may sign a renewal for any period up to five years after the particular rating expired. It's all done, there and then, at the end of the successful flight test, at the airport, no charge to the CAA.

Some other member states demand that if the rating has expired by even one day, then all the paperwork must be returned to the authorities (of whatever country) to be re-issued by the authority themselves.

Various member states say that a revalidation (rating still current) can be signed directly by the examiner, others say it may only be signed by an examiner from their own state (but is still valid if signed by a "foreign" JAA examiner).

Some member states demand a certain amount of recency experience (which may mean flying with an instructor) before renewing an expired rating - some don't.

Some member states will allow you to do the initial I/R in the USA, some will allow single engine I/R to multi engine I/R as an "add on" in the USA (the UK CAA will not [yet]).

Each state has their own interpretation - and I always advise every foreign (non UK CAA) licence holder to get written word from the relative member state authorities, or web site, before going to the expense of any flying.

It all comes down to interpretation and, possibly, each individuals personal experience.

Had a case last year - Swedish (?) girl, JAA rating expired three or four years prior. Went on an assessment ride with an instructor, given a 100% approval and submitted directly for renewal flight test.

Done in same day. Perfect. Paperwork submitted to national authority, by fax, for rating re-issue. Application rejected - as they demand she should have had a minimum amount of training prior to test, she couldn't possibly be that good after so long a break.

Pointed out that she hand flies approaches three or four times a day, six days a week, doing her day job as an instructor and training captain on a regional jet.

Rating issued by return.

In short - you may renew or revalidate any JAA member state rating in an N registered aircraft in the USA - but the paperwork will vary depending on the state in question.

I don't quite follow your second question. If it's expired by one day, or 200 years, then it's a renewal. Again, procedures will vary depending upon which member state you are talking about.

Send me some specific dates and issuing authority information (by PM if you wish) and I'll try to sort you out.

Remember, all, that the MEP and/or instrument revalidation/renewal flight may count as the dual flight required to maintain the validity of your SEP rating, too (even if it's in a twin).

[jayteeto]

I did mine with Sunstate Aviation at Kissimmee, contact them.

I recommend Sunstate, Jason was the multi instructor there. Top class bloke. Good prices also.

[portsharbourflyer]

Fred737,

If you go over five years without renewing your IR (in the case of UK issued JAA), then the renewal test must then be conducted by a CAA staff examiner.

[Keygrip]

.....unless you have been flying on an ICAO one more recently.

[cessnagirl]

I need to renew my multi enging IR (FEB/MAR'09)and possibly my SEP rating and have a CAA UK licence. Has anyone actually done their flight test in florida recently?

Just asking as I'm shopping around and getting info and quotes.
Also I'm going over the CAP413 and using RANT.

What advice, Keegrip would you have for someone who's preparing to renew?

Regards, Cessnagirl.

[Keygrip]

Know the aircraft, know the profile, be able to read a plate (in case your chosen approach is suddenly denied and changed, be able to suddenly calculate a track and execute it when ATC say so, be proficient.

It's a lot less stressfull than your original test - but the limits are the same.

RANT should certainly help you get your head around the tracking, but not really the approach (descent profile).

Flight sim, maybe? Dunno, I don't play it much.

KNOW the aircraft.

[polohippo]

Hi there I have a question.

JAA UK (CAA) Licence
ME expires end May this year
IR expires mid June this year
Spanish JAA ME IR examiner
Will be doing it exactly 90 days before the IR expires

Can I do both in one flight or does it have to be separate flights.

I've spent ages in Lasors and JAR FCL where it talks about cross crediting etc etc but I'm a little lost, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[Tinstaafl]

My UK (not JAA) ATPL is due for renewal towards the end of the year. My UK IR will have been lapsed for 5 years in the next few months however I've been flying IFR regularly for work here in the US on my FAA ATP for the last 3 or 4 years.

So, what will I have to do to renew my UK ATPL?



Keygrip, I've messaged you a couple of times but no reply. Are you interested in doing the flight test, if one is required?