Airline add ons

[flyingfunder]

Ryan air came out top of a Which survey recently for the most expensive airline for five standard items normally sold on board 5 no frill airlines. They were in fact £5 more expensive than the others. I started to investigate add ons and discovered they charge £8 per person extra if you pay by credit card! There seems to be other costs related to hand and hold luggage which are equally over the top. Is this really a low cost airline or a high cost rip off?

[EI-BUD]

flyingfunder, an interesting theme! I flew Liverpool to Alicante on Christmas eve with Ryanair. I have always been a fan of the airline for many reasons but it is just gotten so damn cheap in so many ways.

Firstly at check in a man had 17KG of checked luggage and he had to pay excess fees, I realise this is in the terms and conditions but when you actually see it and remember that Easyjet allow 32kg it is scary! And as I always take a carry on case for convenience and speed at the destination I never actually get to see passengers being charged!

Then on board the inflight mag said stg1.60/Eur1.80 for a small airline size tin of pepse. However, the attendant was charging Stg1.80 and said that due to the excahnge rate this was necessary. The cost of the pepsi is probably no more than 20p each and since Ryanair have pepsi only I imagine the cost is less! The airline probably bought the stock at an agreed price and may have been invoiced before the new inflight mag, I find this so stingy. I paid subsequently!

Furthermore, the airline serves the sugar sachet and stirrer in a piece of kitchen towel folded in a certain way to save the cost of the second cup/glass. This is ridiculous as if you want to have a cup of tea where are you to put the tea bag?

I actually never thought I would hear myself say this but I will be avoiding Ryanair in future at all costs, and many of my previous emails will be at odds with this point of view. I hope dearly that Aer Lingus remains independent and no take over occurs.

Gladly I will be flying back Alicante Belfast with easyjet an airline that is low cost but civilised.

EI-BUD

Ps I got a little off the point!

[liamfr]

flyingfunder : please could you tell me what your definition of an airline is? an airline to me is a business providing air transport. so in answer to your question, yes, Ryanair to me is a low cost airline. (i won't be as pedantic as giving a defn of the term low cost airline)
I really don't understand where you get the term 'high cost ripoff' from. Nobody is forcing you to purchase any snacks or beverages from the onboard shop. Ryanair, unlike some airlines who claim to be low cost, don't have a problem with you taking on to the aircraft your own food and drinks. the only exception to this i have ever been made aware of is in relation to hot drinks, but this is done on health and safety grounds. With regard to baggage fees, simple. Pack intelligently if you want the lowest possible fare. Credit card fees? Ryanair at least offer a free method of payment via an electron card, which many High Street banks will provide you with in addition to your usual debit card on request (certainly my bank the Co-operative, have provided me one for this very purpose)

flyingfunder, or should I just call you Sherlock, when you have finished 'investigating' Ryanair (by the way as i'm sure someone on here will point out that is the name of the actual airline, yes I admit i'm being pedantic now), perhaps you can extend your investigation to Jet2, I look forward to reading your exposee on their non optional charges. Oh, please try reading back in the forums as your comments seem to have been brought up time and time again by other members.

EI-BUD : Why do you have a problem with somebody being charged for a service that they haven't paid for? The pax had paid for 1 piece of hold baggage up to 15kg, they (or the person they have nominated to make the booking) had agreed to this, and yet decided to carry more weight than they had paid for. If I went to a pick and mix in a cinema and was told I could take 500g of sweets, I'd ensure I took 500g of sweets. If I took 600g, I'd expect to be charged for the extra 100g. Unless easyJet have changed the baggage allowance since I last checked, it is still 20kg per passenger, up to a maximum of 32kg per individual piece. The extra 12kg would be charged at £8 per kg. Why didn't this pax simply take the 2kg as cabin baggage, after all Ryanair have a generous 10kg allowance free of charge.

With regard to the euro/sterling exchange rate, yes it may seem unfair, but Ryanair are ultimately a business, and a business reporting in €'s. The prices in the in-flight magazine are an invitation to treat, Ryanair aren't obliged to provide the goods at those prices. They have acted in good faith by previously selling at those prices so please don't anybody try claiming they could be liable for prosecution for false advertising.

With regard to the lack of a second cup, I simply put the teabag onto the paper that is handed out. Ryanair should be applauded for cost cutting unneccessary expenditure at this difficult time for everyone connected to the airline industry.

Anyway, back I go to hiding in the bushes, long time lurker and all.....

[racedo]

I realise this is in the terms and conditions but when you actually see it and remember that Easyjet allow 32kg it is scary!

Nope EZY allow 20kg paid for at cost of £7.50 and £6 per Kg after that.

Max weight of any one bag is 32kg which is airport standard.

[KNIEVEL77]

Can you believe I have paid £10.02 return with Ryanair from Newcastle to Dublin.........2 pence for the flight and ten quid for using my Visa.......what a joke! :eek:

[leeds 65]

The thing many people have got to realise is that most if not all of ryanairs add ons are not compulsary.The customer has direct control over the price they pay.You dont have to eat,travel light,web check,book flight well in advance if possible,dont bother with insurance,dont bother with 'priority',get an electron card,get the ryanair card etc etc


On the flip side the so called 'legacy' carriers have many compulsory charges with no consumer choice,ie huge fuel surcharges!People are more prudent now.


it all comes down to consumer choice.However the reason the locos are attractive is because people arent willing to spend an extra 30 quid to travel on a 'legacy' carrier on a short hop to paris where the ownly benefit or luxury is a bit of extra leg room!on short hops its irrelevant,granted long haul it may be needed!

[wingman863]

Ryanair are an absolute bunch of bastards. I've flown with them as a result of having no viable alternative and sworn never again. The sooner the OFT clamp down on them and their unquestionably dodgy practices, the better. Their methods of charging follow no logic or reason (credit card charges etc) and stay narrowly within the bounds of the law. They have excellent lawyers who make sure they don't stray too far outside it while skillfully (and obviously with a calculated risk/reward equation factored in) do their best to screw the consumer.

May they get royally shafted by better quality airlines who don't treat their customers like an inconvenience.

[KNIEVEL77]

The credit card add on IS compulsary..........You HAVE to pay by card, if you go to the Ryan Air Desk and pay then 2 pence in cash........they just tell you that the cheap flights are internet only........and I don't have an 'electron' card (whatever that is) so they have got you by the short and curlies!

[Bengt]

1. Do not travel with Ryanair. No one is forcing you to do this
2. Get a Visa Electron. I have got one just for my trips with Ryanair.
3. Pay the credit card charge...

[james170969]

Kneivel, I don't know how many banks issue Visa Electron cards but I got mine from the Co-op Bank. I used to fly with Ryanair six or seven times a year. Now I only fly with them once or maybe twice a year mainly because of their add ons. Within the past week they have increased (yet again!) their airport checkin fee to £5 (up from £4) and their luggage fee to £10 (up from £8). If I had to fly with Ryanair and take a suitcase that would amount to an extra £30 for the return flight. Now I would only use Ryanair if I was going away for two or three nights and I only needed a flight bag. If I go away for longer and need a suitcase then I use other airlines. Sometimes the "flag carriers" work out cheaper than Ryanair.

[boredcounter]

'it all comes down to consumer choice.However the reason the locos are attractive is because people arent willing to spend an extra 30 quid to travel on a 'legacy' carrier on a short hop to paris where the ownly benefit or luxury is a bit of extra leg room!on short hops its irrelevant,granted long haul it may be needed!'

As you say it all comes down to passenger choice, however the legacy carrier (or traditional / non LoCo) does tend to offer a bit more for £30 than the extra legroom. Alternative flights, maybe with other carriers, even overnight accommodation when it all goes Pete Tong at their end.

I see it a bit like insurance, you can pay the extra £30 and hope you don't need to call on the back-up it affords you, or you can not pay it, fly LoCo and if it all goes wrong.........

[Selfloading]

Can you believe I have paid £10.02 return with Ryanair from Newcastle to Dublin.........2 pence for the flight and ten quid for using my Visa.......what a joke! :eek:

What a rip off, a tenner return to Dublin, I'd go with another airline if I was you :\

[PeterPaul]

Selfloading
What a rip off, a tenner return to Dublin, I'd go with another airline if I was you
That the price is low is not questioned. The hiding of cost is. Is this not clear enough, There have been so many discussions on it.

leeds 65
people have got to realise is that most if not all of add ons are not compulsary.The customer has direct control over the price they pay.You dont have to eat,
Is using the toilet of the aircraft, compulsory? Some people never use it. And some carriers do not charge. If not compulsory then, are you free to choose or not to pay a high fee, for the specific service? Are there ways to avoid it? The same goes for the life-jacket. Should you pay dearly if, and only if, you use it?

Above all, if it is a question of choice, (implying a choice for such a luxury), is it acceptable (and permissible, mind you) to impose a high fee at sellers descretion?

Do you know what is a "lion's share"? It is not that the lion takes the large part. It is that the lion pretends to be giving a choice! "Either YOU give me the large part, or I eat you, the choice is yours". Milleniums ago, after the Aesop fables. there have been so many discussions on it.

It is exactly this theme again. A pretense of choice is no choice indeed.

To make it hilarious (not outrageous), is the following example: I book a return trip for my 50 (fifty) friends at 1 EUR each, that makes 100 EUR for all, by electron card there is nothing else to be paid (web check-in).

Then one (just one of the company of 50) wants to have a single baggage weighing 19 kg. Let's do the calculation now. The 1 bag=10x2=20 EUR, it's overweight 4kg=4x15x2=120 EUR, check-in for all=50x5x2=500 EUR, If I am "clever" enough, I can register the bag separetely with one person reservation, I save 500 EUR, grand "clever" total 140 EUR for one (just one) bag, weighing 19 kgs. Plus the 50 friends 100 EUR, weighing 4 tons. Do you really think this is casual? not carefully calculated to keep customers off guard? That is to deceive them, to defraud them?

The question why do they not include the fee into the ticket price, is easily answered, Because this way there would not be a deceit, deceit is the intention!

1. Do not travel with Ryanair.
-One can choose another airline, one that does not deceive its customers (let fools pay for they foolishness).
Yes, only if there is perfect competition. But
-Every low-cost airline feels that the deceit is succeeding, then they are unfairly undercut, so they mimic it. There is no competition then.
-There are many routes where there is just no competition at all (and no exemption of ad-ons). Some carriers try ardently to annihilate competition. The hidding of cost is actually one such effort.
-There are legacy airlines that do not charge for add-on. Yes, they need not to hide the actual cost (no need for deceit, no fraud).
The fault is to whom started it all (fraud by hidding the actual cost by exorbitant high add-ons). The cure is to abolish the deceit.

The fact that one pays the high add-on, does not mean that there is no-fraud, no hidding of the cost of the actual fare.

The fact that you can always read the small print and calculate the total cost, makes the whole process purposefully complicated, to the end of defrauding.

[racedo]

That the price is low is not questioned. The hiding of cost is. Is this not clear enough, There have been so many discussions on it.

How can you hide a cost when the purchaser has to approve the charge before the flight is booked ?

Legacy carrier made use of the change in the rules where service charges could be shown separately to gain a fare price increase so idea that the underhand charging started with LC's is a figment.

Then again the reluctance of airline to remove their fuel surcharges when oil prices have collapsed gets skated over.

[TartinTon]

Quote
That the price is low is not questioned. The hiding of cost is. Is this not clear enough, There have been so many discussions on it.

And is it also not clear that the cost isn't hidden at all. You have a choice. If you don't like it then don't pay it...no-one has a gun to your head!

Quote
Is using the toilet of the aircraft, compulsory? Some people never use it. And some carriers do not charge. If not compulsory then, are you free to choose or not to pay a high fee, for the specific service? Are there ways to avoid it? The same goes for the life-jacket. Should you pay dearly if, and only if, you use it?

As far as I'm aware no-one charges for using the toilet. Sounds like you're trying to make a point out of nothing here. Life-jackets/toilets etc are all must haves and as such aren't charged for. What's your point exactly?

Quote
Above all, if it is a question of choice, (implying a choice for such a luxury), is it acceptable (and permissible, mind you) to impose a high fee at sellers descretion?

Again, if you don't like the price go somewhere else (assuming you can get it cheaper). That's market forces for you.

Quote
Do you know what is a "lion's share"? It is not that the lion takes the large part. It is that the lion pretends to be giving a choice! "Either YOU give me the large part, or I eat you, the choice is yours". Milleniums ago, after the Aesop fables. there have been so many discussions on it.

It is exactly this theme again. A pretence of choice is no choice indeed.

Again it is you that is missing the point, From your example above, I wasn't aware that Ryanair was going to kill you should you refuse to pay the extras (your example, not mine)

Quote
To make it hilarious (not outrageous), is the following example: I book a return trip for my 50 (fifty) friends at 1 EUR each, that makes 100 EUR for all, by electron card there is nothing else to be paid (web check-in).

Then one (just one of the company of 50) wants to have a single baggage weighing 19 kg. Let's do the calculation now. The 1 bag=10x2=20 EUR, it's overweight 4kg=4x15x2=120 EUR, check-in for all=50x5x2=500 EUR, If I am "clever" enough, I can register the bag separately with one person reservation, I save 500 EUR, grand "clever" total 140 EUR for one (just one) bag, weighing 19 kgs. Plus the 50 friends 100 EUR, weighing 4 tons. Do you really think this is casual? not carefully calculated to keep customers off guard? That is to deceive them, to defraud them?

The question why do they not include the fee into the ticket price, is easily answered, Because this way there would not be a deceit, deceit is the intention!

From your above example then clearly you're an idiot. If you're 4 kilos overweight then pay for 2 bags and split the load. Once again the airline hasn't deceived you. It has told you what the allowance is and what the charges are.


Quote
The fact that you can always read the small print and calculate the total cost, makes the whole process purposefully complicated, to the end of defrauding.

No it doesn't. As in most contracts if you're too damn lazy to read the small print then that's no-one's lookout but yourself and you deserve what you get. The world owes you nothing.

I'm no apologist for Ryanair or any of the other low-cost/low-fare airlines out there who charge extras but at the end of the day you always have a choice.
Read what they are going to charge you for and also how you can avoid it and stop bleating about how unfair it is that everything in life isn't free.

As for the guy who's complaining about the fact that his 2p fare cost him the "outrageous" £10.02....get a life for God's sake. Before Ryanair the best you probably would have done is £200 on BA. Some people have very short memories.....

[MUFC_fan]

Well I often fly with Ryanair, the most I have EVER paid for a Ryanair flight is £30 return inc. taxes and charges.

Thanks Ryanair!:ok:

[KNIEVEL77]

James170969,

What exactly is the 'airport checkin fee'?

Surely they don't charge you extra for checking in........do thjey?

K77.

[james170969]

Good evening Knievel!
Yes, Ryanair do charge you to check in at the airport. They have done this for just over a year I think. First of all the charge was £2 then it went up to £4 and now they are charging £5. There is no charge if you choose to check in online and print out your own boarding card. They (like many other airlines) also charge you to put luggage into the hold. If however, you want to take a suitcase then you are unable to check in online and must check in at the airport. So you have the £10 luggage fee plus the £5 airport check in fee. Now I only use Ryanair if I don't have to take a suitcase.

[PeterPaul]

TartinTon, You said:
clearly you're an idiot. If you're 4 kilos overweight then pay for 2 bags and split the load. Once again the airline hasn't deceived you.
I said:
140 EUR for one (just one) bag, weighing 19 kgs. Plus the 50 friends 100 EUR, weighing 4 tons. Do you really think this is casual? not carefully calculated to keep customers off guard? That is to deceive them, to defraud them?
Think again. Who is the idiot here?

It has told you what the allowance is and what the charges are.
If the friend with the bag unexpectedly produces it at the airport (no internet bag booking) then the 500 EUR check-in fee is unavoidable, no? Grand total in this case 650 EUR for one bag. And you think this is normal and fair, there is no intention to extort money. Who is the idiot?

Life-jackets/toilets etc are all must haves and as such aren't charged for.
Exactly. Are these not costing? They do. What happens? The cost is embodied in the ticket. So should be (reasonable=20 kg) baggage, check-in, card etc. At the very least, the charge should be reasonable or proportional to the ticket.

I wasn't aware that Ryanair was going to kill you should you refuse to pay
Seems people is much less "understanding" nowadays. Back then (600 B.C.) they could understand what
"A pretence of choice is no choice indeed" means.

complaining about the fact that his 2p fare cost him the "outrageous" £10.02
I can understand your feelings about being able to fly with small amounts. Think however, there is people that always fly on 1€ or less (total, no more for anything). Usually much less ! Then one must be grateful to an airliner. No, one mustn't. This time I suggest you don't try to understand. Things are way too complicated here (taxation, subsidies, marketing, funding, liquidity, monopoly (not a game) etc etc, it is too complicated).

(PS
Don't be too clever, really. := Splitting the bag of 19 kg to 2 pcs for one passenger (no polling) will not work, it will cost you 40€ more. Splitting into 3 pcs will cost you 80€ more. I don't know splitting into more pcs. You didn't realize it? Many don't. Small print. They are ready and waiting you know.)

[KNIEVEL77]

Tartinton,

The £10 extra that I have to fork out to pay by card is not part of the airfare, it is an add on.........if the airfare was £1000 I still feel it unjustified to have to pay so much to pay by card!

K77.

[Icare9]

We have a place in Mojacar. There are few flights from London to Almeria during the winter. We looked at alternatives and have bought £15 pp tickets for flights there and back next March. Yes, the £5 per person per flight Booking Fee (unless Visa Electron, now available at only a few places, such as the Halifax) is a pain, but we still have a very cheap deal and obviously do not expect much for it. Any other flights were approx double and either involved more travel in UK or in Spain. On arrival we will still have time in hand in Spain to shop for essentials and get to our apartment at sensible time, not crack of dawn or dead of night. We don't need hold baggage and can manage for a couple of hours without buying inflight food/drink (OK, if it were sensibly priced, then I'm sure we'd avail ourselves). Ryanair obviously chose to get maximum out of a few, rather than a little from most, but if that's their business plan, I won't buy anything. The next time we go out, we'll see what the best deals for us are, and book accordingly. If Ryanair can keep in business on these fares then I'll use them when it suits. We have happily paid more (substantially so) with another preferred airline many times previously, but we can't simply ignore deals that are about half the others price.

[MUFC_fan]

I have an Abbey Electron card and I use it only for booking flights, trains etc. online. There is no money in it, I just transfer it across online instantly and save a fortune!

I have flown with Ryanair on 22 bookings during 2008 which I think means I have saved over £100 - please correct me if I am wrong. Coincidently - I haven't paid more than that in total for all the flights!:}:}:}

I know many people don't like paying the extra fees. If you have baggage - go with BA etc. If you don't FR/U2 are fantastic!:D

[TartinTon]

Knievel,

I understand that. Ryanair have told you that if you want to save yourself the charge then get an Electron card.

Answer: Phone your bank and ask for an electron card or get an account that will offer one.

It's not rocket science, is it?

[mickyman]

So many idiots post on Ryanair threads I hope the
management read them and chuckle as I do!!

MM

[EI-BUD]

I understand the arguement that is being made re the airfare of 1p plus £10 credit card charge.

The credit card charge is not reflective of the actual charge by the bank or the credit card company. Big companies have deals as low as 1% of the price or 1.2% in some cases that I have seen.

So in any fare that Ryanair charges the fee is excessive. And the issue of advising fellow ppruner's to use Electron, well in ROI for eg none of the banks provide Electron, and most banks dont provide this.

Ryanair rely on credit card charges and make no mistake the proportion of payments by Electron is very low, if it were higher Ryanair would jack the cost of this up too.

Ryanair do provide excellent prices and yes you can avoid many of the add ons, eg bag, electron etc, but in my view Ryanair and any other airline for that matter should only be allowed to charge the actual cost to them of the credit card fee. They can go and show the real cost of the flight in the fare price. In turn this will reflect a realistic seat cost per passenger?

EI-BUD

[leisurelad]

Price Comprison:

LGW-ALC 26JAN09 OUT / RTN 02FEB09 02PAX

Easyjet:
OUTWARD 0625 / 0950
INWARD 1025 / 1200

TOTAL INC 02 Bags paying with electron card £137.86
TOTAL without bags and paying with electron £107.86

Ryanair:
OUTWARD 1130 / 1505
INWARD 0920 / 1055

TOTAL INC 02 Bags paying with electron card £120.00
TOTAL without bags and online check in paying with electron £60

As you can see, if you play it right, travel light etc then yes ryanair comes in much cheaper at present although doesn't allways as the fares are only cheap as its a flat £30 return per person, but add the bags and check and hardly any difference between them.

Interesting

[Lafyar Cokov]

Although it is obviously all a big marketing ploy to suck you in with a small fare and then lay the 'unavoidable' charges on you - such as checking in etc etc the one I think must be illegal - or if not, exceptionally close to the wind, is the charge of a credit/debit card booking fee per passenger not per transaction. How can this be in anyway justified? I understand that to process a single card transaction many banks/financial charge a fee or percentage but how in any way can this be dependent on how many passengers are flying?

Can anyone explain?

[pamann]

Although it is obviously all a big marketing ploy to suck you in with a small fare and then lay the 'unavoidable' charges on you - such as checking in etc etc

Totally avoidable as previously mentioned!

I booked flights with FR recently 1p out and 1p back. Total charged to my Electron card = 2p.

I won't be checking in bags, I won't buy on board, but (hopefully) I will get to the continent and back for a total of 2p and to where I want to get to.

Easy answer = hand baggage only/web check-in & get yourself an Electron card like many of us have and just transfer in the cash as and when you need.

Even if you paid the credit card charge, which I should say is £8 roundtrip not £10 like many of you keep mentioning, then I would have paid £8.02 for a return flight to any number of destinations that were available. Add to that if you like a bag to check-in, airport check-in and even pre-board and you still only have a total cost charged to your card of £42.06!

Now I've looked at BA for the same route and get £117.30!

Now in my calculation I could still buy an over priced G'n't and a sandwich and the whole thing would still be cheaper than the BA option.

However work the system and you fly for a penny each way and that's exactly what I'll be doing.

Get over it, you all agree to the charges with Ryanair before you press confirm when you've entered the credit card number and pressed 'OK'. If you're stupid enough not to have noticed the extras then in all fairness you shouldn't really own a credit card should you! :ugh:

So lets get over the "Ryanair charges whinge" and let this one rest. And please before someone else starts yet another Ryanair bashing thread, get a life it's died it's death now, get an electron card and "Fly Cheaper" or fly with whoever you like, no one cares! Enough people have had their say on this tideous over done topic.

[Seat62K]

My view in relation to these "add ons" depends on what the fares are vis-a-vis competitors'.
For example, when Ryanair first released its flights from Stansted to Alicante for next summer I was quite shocked to find fares before airport check in, credit card etc. fees were added which would have meant that flying Club Europe on BA from Gatwick would have been cheaper on the dates I was investigating. To have to pay Ryanair's credit card fee on top of what was a ridiculously high fare would have been an insult. On the other hand, when I fly this route and pay only £20-£30 before the credit card fee, it looks different.
(If I'm paying a lot for tickets, whatever the price comparisons show, I feel airlines should not levy a credit card charge. I remember a BA Club World booking I made for myself and another passenger - even though it was shown on the payment page on ba.com as one total I was charged two credit card fees. For what I was paying I felt charging a credit card fee at all was unacceptable.)

[pennineuk]

Looking throughmy credit card statements, for a variety of airlines, you always get one entry per passenger, not one per booking. Is this something the credit card companies insist on?

[PeterPaul]

I always get a statement (entry) per booking, not per passenger. Concerns 3 banks-cards. Banks are interested per transaction, not per persons within one transaction. Banks never know how many persons there are.