No Santa wavexs on Christmas Day

[[email protected]]

Anyone living near a SAR flt will be used to seeing the duty crew fly around the local area on Christmas Day with a cheery santa in the door waving at the kids. At Chivenor we usually pay a flying visit to a children's hospice nearby and most other flights will have similar places that get a santa wavex every year.

It can't happen today though because of MOD jobsworths who have seen fit to instigate the following limitations (reprinted verbatim from the signal):

The UKLFS will close at 231700Z Dec 08 and reopen at 050700Z Jan 09.

With the exception of SAR aircraft, no military aircraft are to use the system for non-operational flights during the period stated above without prior approval from MOD DAS (LA).

SAR training is permitted: however, overland low flying outside MATZ is to be limited to the minimum necessary to maintain currency. No overland SAR training is permitted during the public holiday periods below.

From 242359Z to 270700Z Dec 08 and 312359Z Dec 08 to 020700Z Jan 09.

This is a total closure of the UKLFS (GL- 2000ft agl). This closure also applies to all helicopters (excluding the stated SAR exemptions), operating below 2000ft agl.


In previous years, SAR flights have had proper exemptions and, since helicopters are not deemed to be low flying until below 500ft agl, even closure of the UKLFS still allowed us to do a limited wavex (overshoot from approach to land etc).

This year the added paragraph about helicopters below 2000ft and the no overland SAR training during the holiday periods means that a wavex is just not feasible. especially with a cloudbase today of less than 2000' agl.

Thanks MOD - I am sure the kids at the hospice wish you a very Merry Christmas:ugh:

[leopold bloom]

Miserable gits.:*

[arandcee]

Boo hiss!

Christmas in N Devon without Santa in his big yellow sleigh? :ugh:

All the best for a safe New Year to all the yella fellas.

[capewrath]

And the red and greys.

[exscribbler]

Just how much did the MoD spend on "hospitality" last year? Rather more than this ban has saved, I'll bet. Bl**dy miserable f:mad:ers.

Have a safe New Year, all you SAR bods.

[OmegaV6]

Idiots ... know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

Anyhow ... those "On Duty" please have an enjoyable and quiet day

Merry Christmas

[Beatriz Fontana]

Just who the hell writes this nonsense? Air or MoD Centre? I mean, once upon a time you could get away with "what they don't know won't hurt 'em" but that extra paragraph looks like a catch-all.

BTW, yesterday's Telegraph said the MoD had spent a few thousand on Christmas decorations...

Miserable so and so's.

[iccarus]

Unbelievable.........some desk jockey just cannot see the wood for the trees.

I sincerely hope all the boys and girls on 'alert' (either yellows, red n greys, GCAS, Medevac or pointy greys) have a quiet day.

Does anybody know if the 1435 Flt boys managed to put a 4 ship up today?? Remember being told that last year they were banned, depite the fact that it had occurred every year previous since the conflict. The idiot responsible couldn't even cite 'cost saving' as the justification.

[Jimlad1]

Before we jump into the usual run of "evil MOD what the **** do they know", could someone tell me who is responsible for issuing these notices in the first place?

There is usually a sound reason behind the decision, and its not down to some jobsworth civil servant wanting to make life more miserable for the troops.

I'm happy to place a substantial bet that the decision was taken, approved and authorised within a wholly military chain of command, and that there is probably a good reason for it.

[Thatch]

I have good memories of chasing the Wessex around the mound between MQs at Chivenor during Christmas Day to get the sweets thrown out by Santa.

I suppose the H&S mob would have a fit if they saw that the SAR crews used to hover over the football pitch at Southmead school and lower Santa, kids one side and houses on the other.

But that was back in the early 80's.

Merry Christmas

Neil

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Simply leave the aircraft so dirty on the outside that whingers on the ground can't tell its yellow, so they won't know who to complain about...

May not work on the shiny new 3A but it would probably work a treat on a Mk 3:ok:

...like the Mk 3 which apparently took 5 engine starts to get off the ground from a field location after Christmas lunch at a RAFA place. Allegedly the crew eventually started No 2 first, after which the No 1 decided to come onboard rather than get left behind...though all of this was hearsay and I couldn't possibly comment further...

[AHQHI656SQN]

I was delighted to see Father Christmas in the door of the ever welcome Yeller Seaking overhead Wattisham.
Merry Christmas everyone.
:O

[herman the crab]

Another yellow sleight was also seen today here - I ll not reveal the location in case of repurcussions :)

HTC

[Vim_Fuego]

Again one flew over my head late morning but location to be kept hush-hush...Good to see though.

[Bertie Thruster]

Crab; looks like that signal wasn't quite water-tight enough to be completely "wise men" proof!

[britinusa]

1435 Flt managed 3 F3's, also 1 VC10, 1C130, 1SAR seaking, 1 Lynx all flew over MPA and Stanley today in formation(Seaking and Lynx in the hover at each location). lots of photos taken. Not one low flying complaint, in fact the cruise ship parked in the harbour had all its passengers waving.

[[email protected]]

Bertie - several phone calls were made to the individual who issued this signal and, whilst he was willing to verbally sanction low flying for wavexs, he would not put it in writing.

This left everyone with a dilemma - we know from bitter experience that the guy who says it will be OK on the phone will be the same guy who is calling for public execution of the crew when a horse rider is de-horsed by a yellow Sea King.

As ever, the level of support from the 'top/rear echelons' to the front line is purely theoretical and depends on who has a career that might be damaged.

I do remember leardership being taught at Cranwell - I just don't get to see too much in the modern RAF and it starts at the top.

[Chris Kebab]

..out of interest Crab, what rank is this guy?

[Bertie Thruster]

...at least the author of the signal left enough leeway in that order for some SAR units to be able to "wave the flag" yesterday....

[spheroid]

Where in that signal does it state that you cannot low fly with Santa dressed up and waving at the kids? It doesn't - unless you count Santa waving as SAR training . If you can justify that Santa waving is not SAR training then crack on.

[Hueymeister]

Someone PM me with the guy's Job Spec/title from the signal...we can then inundate the sad muppet with signals asking him to clarify his intent, and the equally sad tonk who told him to write it. Seniors in MOD...you obviously have too much time on your hands if you have to worry about stuff like this...you bunch of time-wasting tosspots. Bah Humbug..makes oye maaad!:ugh::suspect::{:sad:

[Hummingfrog]

What do you expect in a country which is slowly descending into a place where those in charge want to control every aspect of the "peoples' " lives. Who want to know what you are doing , where and when from birth to death.

I well remember, on Xmas eve in the early 80s, the greenies festooning the doorway of Walter with 24v fairy lights and we would get airborne as it got dark, on a training navex, which happened to take in Braunton, Croyde and the MQ patch at Chivenor. For some reason there was also a guy dressed in a red suit sitting in the door way.

Children would be waving as we took a close look at suspect survivors on the edge of the housing estates!

The letters of thanks we got from parents probably proved we did more good for RAF/Local relations then any other form of PR.

HF

[Beatriz Fontana]

Now there's an idea. Nothing is hated more than bad PR... :}

[normally right blank]

Just a thought, jimlad1:

Why are you connecting these two:
I'm happy to place a substantial bet that the decision was taken, approved and authorised within a wholly military chain of command,
&
and that there is probably a good reason for it. ;)

Merry Christmas to all!

[scarecrow450]

Chrimbo 91 Staish flew F4 low level over the Islands then the C130 did the same with 'Merry Xmas' in dayglo tape under the fuse, but also had a large inflatable santa in the astro dome. It got recalled for a comp, but it still flew santa to Chile and back !
Just hoped the comp got back in time.

[EdSett100]

"Bloggs, I understand from the records that you were flying on a training sortie on Christmas Day, outside the MATZ...explain yourself."

"Currency, Sir."

"That was the answer I was expecting."

"Thank you, Sir."

"I should mention that the local childrens hospital has written to say that they were very happy to see you and Santa. Looks like a successful day for everyone. Carry on."

It can't be difficult.

[[email protected]]

Unfortunately, on Christmas Day, there was no way to do a wavex legally unless you were operating inside a MATZ. We don't have one of those and our 2nm ATZ doesn't reach far enough.

If Santa wavexs were done then it was at the Captain's discretion who then opens himself up to a whole world of hurt if someone does complain.

The Wg Cdr who wrote the signal clearly wasn't prepared to shoulder the responsibility himself since a simple paragraph or amendment to our exemptions would have done the trick.

It's too late to moan now I suppose but maybe next year someone's conscience will be pricked - either that or the ghosts of Christmas past present and future will need to visit MoD:)


Edsett - sadly it's more likely to be:

"Bloggs, a horserider was hurt when your low flying aircraft spooked her horse on Christmas Day - why were you low flying when there is a signal expessly forbidding it"

"Errrr - I was spreading cheer to the local kids and giving the RAF some badly needed positive PR Sir."

"Bloggs - you're sacked and take a 6 month OOA in the Stan before you go."

"But Sir I was only trying to do the right thing."

"We don't do what we think is the right thing to do in the RAF Bloggs - we do exactly what Air Rank Officers think is the right thing to do - they know best after all."

[arandcee]

And N Devon wouldn't be N Devon without some NIMBY sat, hovering over their keyboard on Christmas Day, just waiting to e-mail the RAF/BBC/Daily Mail/Radio Devon about low flying helicopters spoiling their peace and quiet/russel brand even though they didn't listen to the programme/'kids today'/wind farms. It's what they live for. :ugh:

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Unfortunately, in this day and age, Crab's example of the post-complaint interview is more believable than Edsett's.

One option would be to ath for PFLs, thereby allowing oneself to descend from one's 2000' navex to overshoot by 100' agl.

Or claim to be forced down by weather, although this does demand a few props such as clouds.

Good luck to all those trying to work around the NY LF ban, which is just as restrictive as the Christmas one!

[Dominoe]

First I must state that I dislike Christmas intensely and everything to do with it. ~thats why I always volunteer for duty or for an OOA - a married bloke with kids gets Christmas at home and I`ll get my time off later is my reasoning - and I feel it works fine for me (this is written from MPA as I speak).

I was on shift on Xmas day at Chivenor one day. I dressed as Santa and we flew myself and two sacks of pressies into the North Devon kiddies Hospice. When I saw all those kids I immediately found a huge lump in my throat. Those kids believed I was Santa - so Santa I was. I walked out of there with more pressies than I had taken in - cigars, bottles of booze, tins of biscuits and chocolates.

I was then winched down in front of Saunton Sands Hotel and waved to all the blue rinse brigade and was given 4 bottles of champers to put into my sack. We then flew around the villages and waved.

On Boxing Day my Father reminded me of the three stages of Father Christmas:

1. You believe in Father Christmas
2. You don`t believe in Father Christmas
3. You ARE Father Christmas

Despite my humbug about everything Christmas - landing at the Kiddies Hospice was actually very special and humbling and a huge personal privaledge. The amount of magic it must have generated for those kids was clearly evident.

To read how this was probably stopped this year (for whatever reason) is very sad indeed. A sad loss of PR for SAR and a huge loss for the kids of that hospice. Sigh .......

[Ivan Rogov]

Here is a chance for the Press to prove they can be useful. Lets hope a few Journos see this and ask some searching questions of our higher management. I wonder what spin they will put on it to hide their embarrassment, saving fuel, airframe hours, noise pollution? Don't accept any of these poor excuses!

Maybe there was a good reason, but then again having seen so many poor decisions inflicted from above I doubt it. AFAIK the SAR peeps have a training flight each shift, so there was no issue of tax payers money being wasted or increased risk to the public. An excellent use of resources to provide great PR and more importantly make lots of kiddies Christmas extra special, all of which has now been stopped :ugh:

This is the sort of thing that should be encouraged not banned! :mad:

PR/RAF = Piss up/Brewery

[bibendum]

Any news on this year's Wavex programme?

I was delighted to hear reports of santa appearing outside a childrens ward on the 13th floor recently....:ok:

[Matt Skrossa]

The good days at RNAS Culdrose with the venerable Wessex V from 771 NAS did the day time SAR cover. At the end of the Xmas day SAR Test the pilot said he would do a low fly-by of the tower. As the helicopter drew level to the tower the Duty ATCO saw two big hairy crewmen's bare pink ar*es hanging out the cargo door at the same time as the Captain, his fragrant wife and charming children appeared in the tower to wish all those working on Xmas day a 'Happy Christmas'.... priceless!

[Tashengurt]

FFS! Surely this goes firmly into the 'what harm can it do?' box. Those wringing their hands about potential complaints shold grow a pair and find something useful to do.
Dominoe, You sound like me until about three years ago. Having a sprog has meant I've re-discovered Christmas and of course I get the whisky and mince pie he leaves out for Santa!

[taxydual]

I wonder what would happen if a certain Flt Lt SAR co-pilot at a certain Welsh SAR unit who has volunteered (I understand) to work over a certain forthcoming festive season has a word in the ear of a certain Granny?

Santa Wavex by Royal Appointment per chance?

[jayteeto]

I just realised that this was originally 2008. There is probably even less chance this year. Some scrooge somewhere will be saying "how much does that cost and who is paying?". Especially with all the public sector cuts.
We will be on duty with our shiney yellow EC135 at Blackpool (not quite a SK), us and security and errrr no-one. The good news is that we will be home for tea. Best wishes to those on duty this holiday, fly safe.

[teeteringhead]

Certainly used to be MoD Centre who issued such edicts - in the distant past I was that man. But I hasten to add I would never have recommended or issued such a ban, nor did I for the 3 Christmasses for which I was the man ......

In short I agree with Leopold Bloom's post No 2. Got a few 25 Decs in the log books meself. Allus nice to fly if you've got to be at work.....

[Winco]

There's an easy way around it - the aircraft needs an airtest, simple.

Reports of such and such a snag, requiring an air test to confirm/deny symptoms etc. etc. I am sure the boys and girls of our SAR fleets will have it all sorted and get round it. No problem.

As for the prat who wrote the signal - get a life man for goodness sake.

The SAR fleets belong to this country and I have no problem at all with them flying around, on a lo lvl navex or whatever on any day of the year, waving the flag for all to see, that those that might be needed at the drop of a hat, are there ready and waiting.

Fly safe everyone, and Merry christmas to all those who will be watching over us all throughout the holiday period, and who watch over us every other period come that! Thank you and Best Wishes.

[Roadster280]

It's been a while since I wrote a signal, but I'll have a go.

FM HQ XYZ
TO ALL FLYING UNITS

IMMEDIATE

1. THIS SIGNAL COUNTERMANDS THIS HQ'S (INSERT SIGNAL REFERENCE).
2. AUTHORITY IS HEREBY GRANTED FOR LOCAL COMMUNITY RELATIONS OPS AND EXERCISES DURING THE FESTIVE PERIOD. LOCAL COMMANDERS ARE TO USE THEIR DISCRETION TO ENSURE CONTINUITY OF COMMUNITY RELATIONS.
3. FOR CLARIFICATION, THIS ORDER IS BY COMMAND OF AOC THIS HQ. ANY QUESTIONS TO BE DIRECTED ACCORDINGLY.
4. FOR ADMIN WING THIS HQ. DELETE DUTY OFFICER 25 DEC, INSERT ORIGINAL SIGNAL AUTHOR.

If only...

[teeteringhead]

Excellent Roadster - but for up-to-date Yuckspeak "Community Relations" is now "Engagement" .... :ugh:

[SilsoeSid]

Pssst;
Don't tell anyone, but the UKLFS is open again ;)

The UKLFS will close at 231700Z Dec 08 and reopen at 050700Z Jan 09.

[Finningley Boy]

Am I the only one to notice its in force from Decemer 2008 to January 2009?:confused:

FB:)

Woops, just noticed the post before mine!:ok:

[Squirrel 41]

Roadster - excellent, made I larf. One subtle amendment.

4. FOR ADMIN WING THIS HQ. DELETE DUTY OFFICER 25 DEC, INSERT ORIGINAL SIGNAL AUTHOR.

Surely should read:

4. FOR ADMIN WING THIS HQ. DELETE DUTY OFFICER 25 DEC, 31 DEC AND ALL SUBSEQUENT PUBLIC HOLIDAYS TFN, INSERT ORIGINAL SIGNAL AUTHOR.

S41

[ShyTorque]

But doesn't "SAR" = Santa's Afternoon Recce?

[grandfer]

Well done "A" Flt. for rescuing Santa today & for proudly letting him wave to all us Chiv. SAR supporters over Braunton (particularly over Saunton Park) GREAT WORK - KEEP IT UP !!!!!:D:D:D:D:ok::ok::ok::ok:

[Tankertrashnav]

I'm happy to place a substantial bet that the decision was taken, approved and authorised within a wholly military chain of command, and that there is probably a good reason for it.


Are you really Jimlad? What it is to be young and not yet cynical!

Or are you quite good at disguising irony ? ;)

Happy Christmas anyway.

[IrishSarBoy]

Some things never change! I'd forgotton how many Christmas duties were spoilt by similar flying bans. Still the last two xmas we've been out flying, sadly on jobs. Oh, arn't signals a minimum of 'Restricted' in their distribution, so posting them up on a public forum might be a little naughty?

Keep taking the pills everyone, enjoy the xmas duties and I wish you all a happy new year whatever it may bring us all:ok:




Written whilst on shift (again);)

[Roadster280]

Oh, arn't signals a minimum of 'Restricted' in their distribution, so posting them up on a public forum might be a little naughty?

Not at all. Most signals are UNCLAS. The handling required for classified (even RESTRICTED) is more onerous, and is therefore avoided when possible.

In the first few lines of the signal will be ZNR UUUUU, which indicates the rest of the signal is unclas. Merry Boxing Day :)