Economy Seating - Would you pay more for legroom?

[The Real Slim Shady]

Three threads dealing with seating in economy - seat design, recline and legroom: but would you pay more for more legroom as standard?

Premium economy varies from about 38 inch pitch with VS and BA to 45 with BD for a hefty price increase, up to double the economy fare depending on route/demand.

However, if the airlines removed 1 row in every 9 ( on a 747 with 32 inch pitch, 10 abreast) and increased the seat pitch to 35 or 36 inches it would hike the price by between 10 and 12.5%.

Would you pay that extra for more legroom and recline?

Or would you say " Nope, I'll save the extra £100 and moan all the way"

[PAXboy]

Even in the boom times of the last ten years - the answer is emphatically to save the money and moan.
American Airlines made a big play of removing seats - adverts showed the seats being removed. Result? No stampede of extra pax, so the seats went back in.
Friends of mine who could easily have afforded to pay for BA WT+ chose not to. On one trip (LHR~JNB) they got upgraded to WT+ and said afterwards that it would not have been worth the money and they were glad that they did not pay.Those that are willing to personally pay for extra leg room are already doing so but I doubt that there are more pax eager to do so. Certainly not regularly enough to make a difference. Expect nothing to change!!!

[Der absolute Hammer]

Well - I just came to Amsterdam from Johannesburg on KLM 747. The flight up is about 11.00 hours, overnight.
Had aisle seat in emergency exit at the rear - row 51(?) on starboard side.
Masses of legroom and a pretty good sleep - half civil to all the family on arrival and for that day.
Paid €50 extra for the seat and would do it again every time for a long haul night flight. Not for a day flight though.
Also - in this case, seat is right opposite KLM cabin crew bunk entrance door. In sleepy moments of being awake at night, allowed one to dimly view blue clad pretty girls climbing ladder - very restful and better than sheep!

[keltic]

Well I haven´t paid double. Economy 700 pound, Premium Economy 1000. I think for more than ten hours flights it´s worthy indeed. For flights less than eight hours.....no way, in case you find a nice seat on economy.

[Shimrod]

When flying long haul, I've generally paid between £400 and £700 for a seat in economy, so I'd quite happily pay £100 more for some extra legroom. As with the OP, I've found that the step up to premium economy is just too much, especially when buying two tickets.

[GwynM]

I recently flew BA to Buenos Airies, WT+ on the way out and Business on the way back. Well worth every penny!

[Der absolute Hammer]

Yes - BA is day flight westbound and night flight back?
So that is what I would do as well.The connection - it was in Sao Paulo? Any problems with the transit there or baggage transfer?
Thank you.....

[The Real Slim Shady]

But if you had the choice, £700 or $700 or €700 for economy at 32 inches, or £800, $800 or €800 for economy at 36 inches, what would be your choice?

I wold quite happily fork another couple of hundred notes for 2 tickets at 36 inches.

[Final 3 Greens]

I will pay a lot extra for a good seat when flying on business.

That's why it's called business class and that is what is required to get there in decent shape.

When on hols, premium economy is fine or J with miles, so 36" would be okay, the although I'd prefer 37/38 with a wider seat and have bought WT+ in the past for this.

Economy is for sardines.

[highlandchieftain]

I suppose I will always be stuck in 4th.
Its really not so bad we just make sure to pamper ourselves pre boarding and post arrival...........
I accept the fact that I am just too mean (bah humbug) and always balk at the cost of premium and then belly laugh at business and 1st fares.
Consider myself lucky that I never started out upfront and had to move back therefore I will never know what I'm missing. Chicken or beef is just fine for me and I always manage to get my share of those little bottles of wine

[GwynM]

both night flights, I got about 2-3 hours sleep in WT+ and 5+ in Business, which was a fairly solid sleep, not fidgeting and waking every few minutes.

Paid for myself, as it was on holiday. I then spent 17 nights in the top bunk of a small cabin in rough seas in the Antarctic ocean - I'd rather pay extra for the flights than a cabin upgrade.

[Seat62K]

Slight thread drift...
I tend to think that many passengers who could afford to fly in premium cabins choose not to do so when they themselves and not their employers have to pay because, unlike other aspects of their consumption (e.g., cars), it is less easy for these insecure people to show off to others how much money they have (ergo, how important they are) by doing so.
But to come back to the question, whilst I'm happy to fly short-haul in economy, I would not fly in the same cabin long-haul under any circumstances, even if seat pitch were increased. That's my view, although others will doubtless disagree!

[Final 3 Greens]

62K

I think your comment demonstrates the steeper differential in product and service on long haul, compared to short haul.

[Avman]

After a horrendous cattle class flight some 8 years ago I vowed never to fly Y class again on long hauls. And I haven't. The day my wife and I can no longer afford it we'll just simply stop flying longhaul. It all depends on the airline and the route, but I have found that in many cases (for me) Y Premium is not available or is not that far off in price to an early C class booking. KLM have good C class fares if you book nice and early (which generally one can do for leisure travel).

In answer to the question: YES, I'm one of the minority who would pay more for improved comfort in Y.

[Shimrod]

Paid for myself, as it was on holiday. I then spent 17 nights in the top bunk of a small cabin in rough seas in the Antarctic ocean - I'd rather pay extra for the flights than a cabin upgrade.

Interesting, as I preferred to do it the other way round - two lots of 14 hours of discomfort in economy on Air France, but a suite for the Antarctica cruise. I'd have loved to have upgraded the flights but even going to premium economy was over double the price (I paid £540 for the flights, and premium was something like £1200).

[garybell]

New to this so hope posting in correct place!

Flying Thos Cook next May, Belfast to Orlando, Premium Economy. Does anyone know what the seats are like and which would be the best 2 seats to try for? many thanks

[Load Toad]

Seat Guru is usually a useful site but I see they don't have Thomas Cook...

Airline Seating Charts, Best Airplane Seats - SeatGuru (http://www.seatguru.com/)

You've got over 5 months mate - just a thought but ask the airline.....?

Your Seat. Your Choice. (http://www.thomascookairlines.co.uk/yourseat_yourchoice.asp)

Find out what the plane will be - the seating plan - if you can request exit rows etc.

[Sober Lark]

My daughter is only 3 and she finds economy very spacious and leg room isn't a problem.

Bet there are many who would be willing to pay less for less legroom.

[isi3000]

Its a lot cheaper with some airlines to just buy an economy ticket and upgrade to extra legroom when you check in...

[GwynM]

Shimrod,
the ship I was on only had one suite, and it wasn't exactly a luxury liner, more a Russian "scientific research" ship not needed after the cold war, and built for the conditions with an ice strengthened hull etc. You could pay for an upgrade, but as you don't spend that much time in the cabin, it's a waste of money (to me, but lots of others disagree).

[Hartington]

I have paid for WT+ on all my recent long haul flights (say the last 4/5 years). In fact I'm paying for Air NZ Business LHR/HKG/AKL/SFO/-LAX/LHR starting any day now. As others have said when I can no longer afford it I probably won't want to undergo long haul however comfortable.

As others have said, a bit of searching can often find you a good deal on such products.

There is another reason for buying WT+ and that is that I've been told that one reason it came into being was that the upgrade between WT and C was becoming too steep. Thus when a premium card waving passenger books WT and waves the card they can be given an upgrade (to WT+) without giving too much away - that can (sometimes) lead to upgrades from WT+ to C.

[Xeque]

My current airline of choice when traveling BKK to LHR and return is EVA. A late model fleet,fabulous in flight service and really good departure and arrival times in each direction - day flight to London and night flight back.
Currently the difference in fares between Economy and Premium Economy is 13,500 Baht (£214 at normal rates of exchange but currently £270 due to the pounds' weakness). It translates to about a 30% increase over the Economy Class fare.
Needless to say you have to book very early to secure a seat in Premium Economy but at the price it is well worth it.

[MidmarMile]

Have just flown Emirates JNB-DXB-BKK-SYD return with my wife and 2 kids. Cattle class. The cost of upgrading just 1 of us to business was more than a 4 day cruise on the Great Barrier Reef in two suites. The reef won hands down.

Travelling as a family we can create much better memories by putting the available funds to use at the destination. Travelling business does not create memories!

[PAXboy]

Travelling business does not create memories!Oh yes it does!!!

You are right, MidmarMile, that for a family it is prohibitively expensive. For a couple, it can be a real positive and boost the holiday. It is all down to money and personal priorities. It is clear for the carriers that money will be the single biggest point for their customers, even without the deep recession.

[dreamwatch]

As much as I would LOVE to fly business class, it's just impossible for us. We make a yearly trip from LHR to BNE, it's a fair old journey, so I would definitely be willing to pay a couple of hundred quid per seat for more comfort/legroom. A 22/23 hour flight is not fun in Y, but I have to say last year we were on Singapore's A380 for the LHR - SIN leg and it was definitely more comfortable that the 747's. Still, 2 or 3 more inches for a £100 would be a no brainer for me. :)

[rog747]

yes i will pay more

if i can get decent long haul Y seat with a min of 34'' of legroom (which frankly is the MINIMUM that any airline should be offering to its l/h pax)
then thats fine but no way i am sitting 9 hours plus in a seat so vile i want to get off !
how come i have been more comfy in a domestic a320 or smaller jet on an hours' hop then to find myself painfully wedged in a virgin wide-body jet for a 10 hour slog>?
it beggars belief doesnt it>?

if the best l/h airlines had not put in the extra damn seats in the first place but kept the fares abit higher we still would have travelled LOL!!!

believe it or not one of the roomiest leg rooms u can get in cheapo class is with Olympic on their a340's 34'' and wide roomy seat with leg rest,
ok they may snarl at you but its very comfy !

[Seat62K]

Does anyone else remember the nine-across seating which at least some 747 operators had in the early-'70s? A bit like the upper deck lounge - didn't last long!

[PAXboy]

dreamwatchStill, 2 or 3 more inches for a £100 would be a no brainer for me.I suspect the problem is called 'product differentiation' or some such by the kids in marketing.

The problem is that, if they give you that three inches for £150, how do they continue to justify giving someone in the next cabin along an extra nine inches for £1,500?

Obviously I am just picking figures at random but they HAVE to keep the price gap high, in order to keep up the price of the really big seats. If they allow pricing to start sliding backwards, they will be in trouble, especially as they need to raise prices. (On one route I looked at as a possible this year, checking at February and October, the October price was 25% higher and you would expect it to be the other way around.)

I think that the way they are providing the few extra inches for £100/150 is the selling of exit row seats (which has been discussed here a lot). Lastly, American Airlines did a big campaign to throw out rows of seats and expand the leg room. They found it made no difference to sales as the sale is dependent upon the price. They found that people want to pay less and grumble more - and that was two years ago before the Recession.

So I do not see any carrier changing current practice and offering a bit more for a reasonable price.

[The Real Slim Shady]

32 inch seat pitch to 35 inch is around 13% more in ticket price for economy.

Personally I would have 30 inches in Economy and a superior service in the premium cabins at a price to encourage sales.

Economy is price sensitive, not service or comfort sensitive.

[timmyneedham]

BA kindly upgraded myself and Mrs TN from WT to WT+ DXB-LHR a few weeks ago and I have to say it was a lot better than WT. The quiet was the main thing I noticed as well as the increase in comfort. I would definitely consider WT+ as a paying customer but it all depends on the price difference to economy. The thing is - you don't get there any quicker in the premium cabins - you did with Concorde and that's why people used it.

TN

[Fruity Tones]

Paxboy is correct. The premium charged for Business and First is jealously guarded as it is essential for any profit. Back of the bus barely covers operating cost.

[rshbkk]

"Back of the bus barely covers operating cost."

...which is why TG is finding life tough these days. So many of its premium cabin seats are always given away to politicians, bureaucrats, superannuated air force brass and the families of the above, that it doesn't make money at the front, either. Which leaves... Oops!

Is it the only airline in the world which doesn't make money from the premium cabins? One would surmise that there might be the odd African or former Soviet outfit in the same position. What wonderful company we do keep in this country.

[Globaliser]

We make a yearly trip from LHR to BNE, it's a fair old journey, so I would definitely be willing to pay a couple of hundred quid per seat for more comfort/legroom.How about premium economy for the long sector between LHR and SIN (or wherever)? If you buy at the right time, that might be only a couple of hundred quid each way.