Your ideal Airforce.

[Yeoman_dai]

Since my other thread has causes so much angst, I thought I'd try a more light hearted one - so, you have 10-odd billion £, you don't have to worry about 'buying British' (although avoid straying out of NATO) and your brief is to create a good all purpose airforce for the UK. See what you all come up with.

So, if you're bored - have a go! :ok:

I'll freely admit i'm no expert, but I believe a left field choice would be Gripen for a Ground support aircraft - small, capable of being refuelled/armed by a team of five off rough airstrips close to the front line, good payload, yet with radar and capable of looking after itself! Plus about half the cost of Typhoons, Dave B/C, Rafale, F/A-18...even if its shorter range means it'd be less useful in the interdiction/bombing role.



Also, as a disclaimer I apologise profusely if this has been done before, I did have a quick skim but couldn't see one like it.

[Culio]

Buy Globemaster, buy fuel, fill with porn bought from remaining money (a bit of food may come in handy if it takes your fancy), fly to Hawaii. Waheeeeey.

[Yeoman_dai]

Genius! :ok:

[Backwards PLT]

Interesting. Have to make a couple of assumptions:
1. Don't have to support RN (no carrier requirement) - if we do add F35C to the list.
2. Wild ass guess at what things cost.
3. Ignore the "keep in NATO!"
4. Has to be available nowish - no dream aircraft
5. We aren't going to war with anyone too capable like Russia!

Fast Jet:
1 multi role type jack of all trades - F15E or Typhoon
1 Dedicated CAS type - A-10 with all the bits the USAF want on theirs

Heavies:
C17s and Hercs
E3s
Off the shelf airbus tanker/transport

Helos:
Don't really know, can't even pretend to be an expert (although that doesn't usually stop people on PPRuNe) but:
Apache (prob better to let the army run them)
Chinook
Smaller thing - I have seen the Merlin in action and liked it but it seems to be a bit of a marmite thing.

UAVs
Whole range, smaller ones operated by army. Plenty of Reapers or Reaper+.

Superficial and very little thought gone into it, but hey there you go.

[KeepItTidy]

Buy RAF fighter pilots and then ask them what aircraft they want. That way I will have the best Air Force in the world.

btw im not a pilot im just a backroom boy without whom nothing would leave the ground, but I know enough in the world to say we got the best no matter what equipment is given.

crikey its xmas time and im being nice , WTF I can spell as well , im shocked

[L J R]

Buy lots of Land in Maroochydore, build base, advertise its location and enjoy the retention.

RAF Maroochy anyone?

[Chris Griffin]

1. Get rid of JPA
2. Get rid of BOCS

Make the working environment easier to cope with. Then buy any airframes you want.

[pohm1]

Plenty of RAF Police to generally keep good order and ensure berets are worn.

P1

[minigundiplomat]

Lets get loads of airliners, start charging for our service and call ourselves oh I dont know... Emirates or British Airways.

By charging for our services, we could then up our level of service and pay ourselves properly, as well as sourcing new technology.

Of course, we would have to keepour costs down, so Iraq and Afghanistan would be off, and we'd have to let a few Air Officers without meaningful portfolio go.

[Flying Serpent]

60,000 Tucanos fitted with missiles and a gun..

[Wrathmonk]

Judging by the majority of the threads on Mil Aircrew then I would suggest (with tongue firmly in cheek:p) the following...

Trade in Typhoon (keep a few for the Memorial flight), scrap the rest of our current FJ fleet, and buy Vulcans, Sea Harrier, Jaguar, Lightning, Buccaneer, F4, Canberra. Make sure they can all operate off aircraft carriers. Downgrade all current rotary assets to previous versions.

Scrap RAF Regt (the Army will cope just fine...), Movers (use Heathrow / Gatwick / Stansted etc as airheads), RAF Police (don't need them 'cause we're all good boys and girls) and PTIs (we can be trusted to keep fit)

Give everybody "flying pay".

Move all trades onto High Band.

Reintroduce the three year Cranwell officer training.

Bring back the JT rank.

Make flying suits normal working dress for everyone.

Disband MOD Air Staffs, AIR CMD, Groups etc. Give station commanders all the money and let them do as they wish.

Any money left over can be used to create a full hospital capability (inc opticians) at all units (regardless of size).

I'm sure there are more good ideas out there ....

[Gainesy]

Just duplicate the air force we had in, say, 1975.

[tonker]

Whatever is bought, could some of it that's primary job air defence please be posted an hour away in the south and south west too. Just in case.

And a few SAMs just in case a Blackjack pops up over the hills.

And i wouldn't line up all our AWACS planes in a row, in a remote part of Waddington so anyone with an large JCB could mash through a fence and cripple our AEW in a matter of minutes.

Everything to be run on a war footing. Any politician, or goverment division that is found to of wasted money on ridiculous long winded projects, that in turn lead to a degredation of our air defence could be tried for aiding the enemy. This would help focus a few minds in departments vital to our existence.

If Aircrew and engineering need it, it is bought.

Merry Xmas

[green granite]

Or alternately, save the money. Buy an answer m/c, give our potential enemies the phone No.and tell them when they wish to attack us to ring that number first. Record the message on said m/c "We surrender". Job done. :E:E

[Tiger_mate]

1) An admission that the Mull of Kintyre Chinook inquest was a miscarriage
of justice.
2) PSF Staff
3) 3 'Get you home' Travel Warrants per annum.
4) RAF Hospitals, at least 2. One of which colocated at an airhead suitable
for TriStar / C17.
5) A Medical Centre in which you can be seen by a Doctor today.
6) A Dental Centre - ditto -
7) One man - one job
8) NO Acting promtion, if you need 'em, up the establishment at Promotion
Boards.
9) Commisioning opportunities for NCA.
10) WRAF proud to be WRAF.
11) Investment in technilogically advance airframes not out of date ones.
12) Replace Dominie / VC10 / TriStar / Nimrod / Puma before they start
falling out of the sky.
13) Move AIDU and all who work there to the Falkland Islands TFN.
14) Invest in Officers & WO-Sgts Mess' so they look like an environment to
aspire to, whilst accepting that a few are already there.
15) Remove civil contractors in toto, and bring back an RAF.

[The Real Slim Shady]

Find a leader who can lead.

[Gen. Jack D Ripper]

1)Tanker/Transport, EW/ELINT & AWACS- New model based around A340-300.VIP-A340-300,A330-200 & A319.
1A) Tactical/Battlefield Airlift Transporters- C-17's & C130's

2)Air Defence-Typhoon.

3)Tactical Strike/Ground Attack/- Modify Typhoon to move the APU exhaust out of the wing root to allow Israeli style 'blended' fuel tanks to give an increased range & make it a two seater & give it a gun!!!!!.
Also have a couple of squadrons of F117's for 'special jobs'.

3A) Strategic Strike - B1's.

3B) CAS- A-10's & AC-130's.

4)Recce- UAV's plus a couple of modified F117's (RF117's) for those jobs that a UAV can't do.

Helicopters- Give the 'Battlefield Lifters' to the Army

Maritime- Give the Nimrods & SAR helicopters to the Navy

Strongly agree with dedicated hospitals near capable 'AirHeads' & introducing Flight Pay.

Increase levels of renumeration 'across the board'.

Off back to bed,now to fight off a nasty cold.
:ok:

[Backwards PLT]

F117?? Are you mad? Not even the USAF thinks that they are worth having! If you insist on stealth then F35A/C is the only way to go, although that might bust my "available nowish" assumption.

[GeeRam]

Just duplicate the air force we had in, say, 1975.

Funny you should say that..... ;)

How about as of summer of 1974.......:ok:

35 different aircraft types.....:eek:

1 Sqn Wittering – HS Harrier
2 Sqn Laarbruch – McD Phantom
3 Sqn Wildenrath – HS Harrier
4 Sqn Wildenrath – HS Harrier
5 Sqn Binbrook – BAC Lightning
6 Sqn Coningsby – McD Phantom
7 Sqn St.Mawgan – BAC Canberra
8 Sqn Lossiemouth – Avro Shackteton
9 Sqn Akrotiri – HS Vulcan
10 Sqn Brize Norton – BAC VC.10
11 Sqn Binbrook – BAC Lightning
12 Sqn Honington – HS Buccaneer
13 Sqn Luqa – BAC Canberra
14 Sqn Bruggen – McD Phantom
15 Sqn Laarbruch – HS Buccaneer
16 Sqn Laarbruch – HS Buccaneer
17 Sqn Bruggen – McD Phantom
18 Sqn Gutersloh – Westland Wessex
19 Sqn Gutersloh – BAC Lightning
20 Sqn Wildenrath – HS Harrier
21 Sqn Andover – DH Devon
22 Sqn Thorney Island – Westland Whirlwind
23 Sqn Leuchars – BAC Lightning
24 Sqn Lyneham – Lockheed Hercules
26 Sqn Wyton – DH Devon
27 Sqn Scampton – HS Vulcan
28 Sqn Kai Tak – Westland Wessex
29 Sqn Wattisham – BAC Lightning
30 Sqn Lyneham – Lockheed Hercules
31 Sqn Bruggen – McD Phantom
32 Sqn Northolt – HS Andover, HS125, Westland Whirlwind
33 Sqn Odiham – Westland Puma
35 Sqn Akrotiri – HS Vulcan
36 Sqn Lyneham – Lockheed Hercules
39 Sqn Wyton – BAC Canberra
41 Sqn Coningsby – McD Phantom
42 Sqn St.Mawgan – HS Nimrod
43 Sqn Leuchars – McD Phantom
44 Sqn Waddington – HS Vulcan
45 Sqn Wittering – HS Hunter
46 Sqn Thorney Island – HS Andover
47 Sqn Lyneham – Lockheed Hercules
48 Sqn Lyneham – Lockheed Hercules
50 Sqn Waddington – HS Vulcan
51 Sqn Wyton – BAC Canberra, HS Nimrod
53 Sqn Brize Norton – Short Belfast
54 Sqn Coltishall – BAC Jaguar
55 Sqn Marham – HP Victor
56 Sqn Akrotiri – BAC Lightning
57 Sqn Marham – HP Victor
58 Sqn Wittering – HS Hunter
60 Sqn Wildenrath – Hunting Pembroke, HS Andover
70 Sqn Akrotiri – Lockheed Hercules, HS Argosy
72 Sqn Odiham – Westland Wessex
84 Sqn Akrotiri – Westland Whirlwind
85 Sqn West Raynham – BAC Canberra
92 Sqn Gutersloh – BAC Lightning
98 Sqn Cottesmore – BAC Canberra
99 Sqn Brize Norton – Bristol Britannia
100 Sqn West Raynham – BAC Canberra
101 Sqn Waddington – HS Vulcan
103 Sqn Tenagh – Westland Wessex
111 Sqn Coningsby – McD Phantom
115 Sqn Cottesmore – HS Argosy
120 Sqn Kinloss – HS Nimrod
201 Sqn Kinloss – HS Nimrod
202 Sqn Leconfield – Westland Whirlwind
203 Sqn Luqa – HS Nimrod
206 Sqn Kinloss – HS Nimrod
207 Sqn Northolt – DH Devon, Hunting Pembroke
208 Sqn Honington – HS Buccaneer
214 Sqn Marham – HP Victor
216 Sqn Lyneham – DH Comet
230 Sqn Odiham – Westland Puma
360 Sqn Cottesmore – BAC Canberra
511 Sqn Brize Norton – Bristol Britannia
617 Sqn Scampton – HS Vulcan

226 OCU Coltishall – BAC Lightning [soon to be Jaguar]
228 OCU Coningsby – McD Phantom
229 OCU(TWU) Brawdy – HS Hunter
230 OCU Scampton – HS Vulcan
231 OCU Cottesmore – BAC Canberra
232 OCU Marham – HP Victor
233 OCU Wittering – HS Harrier
236 OCU St.Mawgan – HS Nimrod
237 OCU Honington – HS Buccaneer
240 OCU Odiham – Westland Wessex, Westland Puma
241 OCU Brize Norton – Belfast, Britannia, Comet and VC.10 as required
242 OCU Thorney Island – HS Andover, Lockheed Hercules

1 FTS Linton-On-Ouze – BAC Jet Provost
2 FTS Church Fenton – DHC Chipmunk, Bulldog
3 FTS Leeming – BAC Jet Provost
4 FTS Valley – HS Gnat, HS Hunter
5 FTS Oakington – Vickers Varsity, Jetstream
6 FTS Finningley – HS Dominie, Varsity, BAC Jet Provost

CFS Little Rissington, Kemble and Ternhill

5 MU Kemble
19 MU St.Athan
23 MU Sydenham
27 MU Shawbury
32 MU St.Athan
60 MU Leconfield
71 MU Bicester
103 MU Akrotiri
431 MU Bruggen



I was bored for an hour.......:sad:

[minigundiplomat]

Westland Puma ? Even I wouldn't accuse Wastelands of that!

[GeeRam]

Couldn't be arsed to right Westland-Aerospatiale......

How about WA Puma then.....:O

[Tiger_mate]

Twas Sud-Aviation in 1971 when they were made, or rather assembled by Westland.

[minigundiplomat]

they were made, or rather assembled by Westland.


Bit like an airfix......

[Gen. Jack D Ripper]

Backwards PLT

F117- It's available now, combat proven & relatively cheap compared to the F35. Think of the other things you could spend the money on if you had an effective 'stealth striker' in the bag?

Is it stated policy anywhere that the F117 IS being replaced by the F35? The USAF managed to keep the "Wobbling Goblin' secret for 10 years before they needed to admit its existence. How do we know that a 'Son of Stealth' isn't lurking around Groom Lake or Tonopah? The USAF constructed enough to make a squadron then, how can anyone say for definite that they haven't done it again?
:ok:

[Yeoman_dai]

Time to open myself up to more ridicule, but i'm bored, so here goes...

Tanker - Airbus A330 MRTT
EW/ELINT & AWACS - E3 Sentry (if it ain't broke...)
Transport - C-5, C-17 and C-130 (best in the world esp the C17)
Air Defence - Typhoon (getting it anyway, and its good)
Tactical Strike/Ground Attack - Gripen/GR4
Strategic Strike - B1's (i'd rather have B2's but the B1's are positively small change compared to the $835million a B2 costs :ooh:)
CAS- Gripen (cheap to buy and maintain multi-roler good for other jobs too)
Recce- UAV's and GR4's

Helicopters- Give the 'Battlefield Lifters' to the Army but make sure that there are at least 3 full chinook squadrons, and 2 Merlin

Maritime- Give the Nimrods & SAR helicopters to the Navy - its their bag after all.

FAA - Navalise the Gripen, cheaper than F35's, far more capable of operating on rought short runways, plus greater capability than a GR9.

Strongly agree with dedicated hospitals near capable 'AirHeads'



A complete overhaul of the rank structure, to alleviate the top-heaviness of the force...




NB I saw the Shackleton mentioned in that list....'the best thing about hearing a Shackleton taking off, is that your not on it' - flying in it being likened to being in a tin shed in a hurricane. Amusing...

[Flyingblind]

Tanker/Transporter etc A330F + VIP pallet for HMG
C-17B
A400
C-27J
CSAR Merlin

Air Defence/Strike Typhoon
Interdiction/Strike F15E+
EW GR4 (EW)

Global Hawk for I spy type stuff
Predator for reaching out and touching someone type stuff

MR4 for RN
Rafael for RN
Hawkeye 2000 for RN
NH90 to replace Sea King
FLynx

Chooks and Merlins to AAC
NH90
FLynx
Twin Otter 400

PC21
Hawk 129
Beech 400
Beech 350
EC135

[minigundiplomat]

I think this thread should be titled 'Your Ideal Navy' looking at these posts.



In which case - Junglies/Soggy Moggy's and Harrier to RAF (almost there)

Lynz/Gazelle to AAC

[chopper2004]

My ideal air force
*Within type squadrons always 1 x for conversion type training)
Multirole
8 x Sqn of F/A-18E/F (x 2 for AD, x 2 potentially to offer as coalition carrier ops on USN CVN and probably France Aeronavale so need crews to carrier trained) and 15 a/c per sqn.

CAS
8 x Sqn of x BaE/Boeing AV-8B Harrier II Plus and Harrier II preferably crews cross trained for carrier ops with rotations on carriers.

4 x Sqn of Hawk 100 for CAS

2 x Sqn of Reaper UCAV

Transport and Tankers

Mix and match of 10 x Sqn with Boeing C-17A and Lockheed C-130H/J (preferably 1 x SF Sqn and aforementioned a/c equipped with FLIR, advanced ECM fit and tanking capabilities for the Harrier and some rotary wing force)

5 x sqn Airbus MRTT

1 x Sqn of VIP with Airbus A340, Bombardier, Boeing 737BBJ, Bombardier Global Express and AW-101 and EC-135P2

Rotary Wing (my favourite!!)

10 x Sqn of AgustaWestland AW-101 Merlin with 2 x sqn assigned to SF and CSAR/JPR however in effect all be equipped with AAR

10 x Sqn of Sikorsky UH-60M Blackhawk for the shorter medium lift and SF support


2 x Sq of Eurocopter EC-635 for liaison, VIP, emergency response.

Maritime Role

5 x Sqn of Boeing P-8A and P-3C Orion

6 x Sqn of red/white/yellow/black painted DEDICATED to civilian and military SAR


ISTAR

3 x Sqn Boeing E-3D Sentry

1 x Sqn of Sentinel R.1

5 x Sqn of Raytheon King Air 200 ELINT

2 x Sqn Global Hawk

Training:

EFTS:Cessna 172 x 4 sqn

Basic: Pilatus PC-9M x 6 Sqn

Fast Jet: BAe Hawk Lead In Flight Trainer x 4 Sqn

Rotary Wing Basic: Eurocopter EC-120B x 1 Sqn

Rotary Wing Advanced: Eurocopter EC-135 X 1 Sqn

Multi engine: Raytheon King Air 200 and Hawker 800



Officer training,

Leave it at 6 months, but maybe extra month with more emphasis on counter insurgency COIN and low intensity conflict and security

Flying Training:

6 weeks EFTS, 9 months basic (though rotary wing and multi engine can escape this route and go straight to rotary wing and multi engine)

Fast Jet: 1 .5 years include basic weapons application and delivery.

Rotary Wing Basic, 6 months

Rotary Wing Advance 6 months

Multi Engine: 8 months

OCU to Combat ready
Dependant on type but between 6 months to a year

Armament

Fixed wing

ASRAAM
AIM-120 AMRAAM
GAU-3M cannon
Paveway IV and JDAM
Maverick AGM-65
SLAM/Harpoon
CRV-7
Aden cannon
AGM-114 Hellfire
Brimstone
General purpose bombs
Depth charges

Rotary Wing
GPMG 7.62MM
M134 GAU rotary gun
Stinger twin launchers
For pure AA/AD

Patriot and Rapier and hand held Stingers.

Bases

Like the present structure but with more at each, and re open some disused such as Sculthorpe, Bentwaters (mix of SAR force and Support and maybe SF and F/A-18EF). More assets at places like Wyton, Wittering,

More Super Hornets deployed frequently to Germany, Iceland, Baltic Sates as well as Cyprus and Gib. Plus frequent training with USN for carrier ops and with USMC for Harrier ops and detach squadrons and assigned crews to a CVN or LHA

Uniforms::E

Keep it the same, more encouraging for females to wear skirts (barely black hosiery as well or glossy) employed at duties in office, desk, level otherwise DPMs, preferably multi purpose...urban camou/ with hint of sand.

Wings; well sorry to say but like the USAF/USN/USMC/USN..can we have the NCO aircrew, WSops TO HAVE WINGS like their pilot brethren but with either the letter N, AE, IN for intel/linguistic) with the wings.

And of course grow bags as primary uniform for aircrews irrespective of role and be worn daily execpt for special occasions and important meets with the top brass from HQ.

[minigundiplomat]

Chopper,

try telling Percy your binning the Chinook in favour of Merlin's/Blackhawks and Eurocopters.

All 3 are capable aircraft, but you have no heavylift capability. And also no mention of AH. Is that a deliberate ommission in order to leave them in the hands of the AAC? I could see the sense in that.

Or just an ommission?

How about.....

RAF

4 x Sqns CH47 (including 1 SF and a maritime flight of RM embedded for 3 Cdo Bde sppt)

4 x Blackhawk Sqns (including a maritime flight of RM embedded for 3 Cdo Bde Sppt)

2 x Merlin Sqns (202 and 22)

Army

6 x AH64 Sqns

2 x Blackhawk Sqns (replace Bell 212/LUH Lynx role +commonality with SH)

4 x Kiowa Recce

1 x Littlebird Sqn (SF Sppt)

Navy

2 x Merlin Pinger Sqns

2 x Merlin Utility Sqns (SAR)

And a fleet of military squirrels and increased fleet of Bell 412 for all 3 services use up to end of MEARW.

[pr00ne]

Gainesy/Gee Ram,

"replicate the RAF of 1974 or 75?"

Are you mad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was a part of THAT Air Force. Seeing as it's principal task was to defend against a conventional Warpact thrust across Central Germany with all the UK AD and maritime associated tasks, I would say that it was woefully inadequate, FAR more inadequate for it's main role than the current lot.

NO hardened facilities, no HAS, all flight lines nice and neat for anyone who cared to take a pop.

NO war stocks; fuel, munitions, spares etc for about 4 days use. AAM etc even less.......

A strike force of tired Vulcans, 100% committed to tactical nuclear SACEUR use in the event of hostilities.

A small tactical strike force with 10% held back for theatre tac nuke use in RAFG.

A tiny AD force of 5 frightening and 1 solitary F-4 squadrons that would have been hard put to defend Lincolnshire let alone the UKAD.

NO heavylift SH, largest SH we had was the Wessex, 1 solitary Sqn per theatre.

Short range SAR Whirlwinds everywhere.

Finally, a tactical dogma that was an embarassement to all concerned.

Take off the rose tinted glasses, please!

[chopper2004]

Minigundiplomat

Havent mentioned the AAC and FAA yet!! :)

Anyhow I said the Eurocopter EC-135 for liaison/VIp never mentioned anything heavier. What on my list was the Merlin!!

More to come:ok:

[GeeRam]

Gainesy/Gee Ram,

"replicate the RAF of 1974 or 75?"

Are you mad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was a part of THAT Air Force. Seeing as it's principal task was to defend against a conventional Warpact thrust across Central Germany with all the UK AD and maritime associated tasks, I would say that it was woefully inadequate, FAR more inadequate for it's main role than the current lot.

NO hardened facilities, no HAS, all flight lines nice and neat for anyone who cared to take a pop.

NO war stocks; fuel, munitions, spares etc for about 4 days use. AAM etc even less.......

A strike force of tired Vulcans, 100% committed to tactical nuclear SACEUR use in the event of hostilities.

A small tactical strike force with 10% held back for theatre tac nuke use in RAFG.

A tiny AD force of 5 frightening and 1 solitary F-4 squadrons that would have been hard put to defend Lincolnshire let alone the UKAD.

NO heavylift SH, largest SH we had was the Wessex, 1 solitary Sqn per theatre.

Short range SAR Whirlwinds everywhere.

Finally, a tactical dogma that was an embarassement to all concerned.

Take off the rose tinted glasses, please!

Whoa there.......wasn't wearing rose tinted specs actually.....:rolleyes:

Gainsey mentioned 1975, and I just posted my reply on a "you mean this?" basis.... ;)

I assumed he meant in terms of it's size then, not advocating using actual types and structure of the service of then, but today, which would of course be a bit nuts......:ugh:

[Gainesy]

Yes, I meant in size terms not actual aircraft types.

And without me in it.:)

[chopper2004]

Army Aviation

1 x regiment = 4 Sqns Sqn = 3 Flights, Flight = 4 x a/c

10 x AH Regiments of AgustaWestland W/AH-64D Longbow

15 x Heavy Lift Regiments of Boeing CH-47F

20 x Utility Regiments of UH-60M or in revitalising the dead, WS-70 with RTM engines

10 x ISTAR Squadrons with Predator and Hermes and Watchkeeper and Firescout and King Air 200

1 x VIP Flt with Hawker 800XP and VIP plush interior EC-135 :=

1 x Communications Liaison Regiment with King Air 200 and 1900D

1 x SF Regiment with MH-60, WS-70 and Predator and EC-635

3 x Training regiments with EC-635 and EC-120B and Cessna 172

[chopper2004]

Minigundiplomat

Of course in an ideal world and fantasy there would be a very large army!!:ok:

Last but not least Naval Aviation

8 x Sqn of AV8B and Plus II with the same armament as my air force

5 x Sqn of MH-60R for ASW/ASUW and general tasks, pref armed with Hellfire and Penguin all destroyer and frigate based

*sqn size = x 10 a/c*

10 x Sqn of MH-60S for Vertrep/ Special Ops, CSAR, Plane guard. equally armed with Hellfire and rotary cannon, and rocket pods

6 x Sqn of AW101 ASH for Marines support

3 x Sqn of AW-101 AEW

(The latter above same as what Italian Navy uses)

Fixed wing support in form of CN-235, King Air 200, and Guflstream V for VIP

Training, EC-120B and EC-135 and King Air 200 and Citation (latter for multi engine and NFO/TACO)

UAV; Firescout

[Yozzer]

You can have all the hardware in the world, but you need to look after the human interface that operates it first. Compared to the post march on Downing Street (By wives & familes) (1978ish) todays caring sharing heirarchy are pretty poor in the leadership, terms and conditions departments. As it happens, pre '78 was pretty punk to, and the halcyon days were but short lived before financial constraint set in at about the same time as Gulf War part one.

We are still some way off fighting wars with umanned computer operated gadgets that require no human involvement. I am sure a Sci-Fi writer would have a field day with the theory though.

[pr00ne]

chopper2004,


"Of course in an ideal world and fantasy there would be a very large army!!"

What kind of wierd world do you live in? Surely in an ideal world there would be NO armies, anywhere?

I dread to think what you get up to if your FANTASY is, a large Army...........

[exscribbler]

Theodore Roosevelt had it right: "Speak softly and carry a big stick."

When planning your perfect RAF - and, while you're at it, the Royal Navy and the Army - bear that in mind and you won't go far wrong.

[Question_Answer]

Gen J D R

Is it stated policy anywhere that the F117 IS being replaced by the F35? The USAF managed to keep the "Wobbling Goblin' secret for 10 years before they needed to admit its existence. How do we know that a 'Son of Stealth' isn't lurking around Groom Lake or Tonopah? The USAF constructed enough to make a squadron then, how can anyone say for definite that they haven't done it again?"

F-117 was of course retired from the USAF earlier this year, but no doubt there are a few in good flying condition. I'm with you, there has to be something coming out of Area 51, "Aurora" having been the speculation for ~20years. More recently the "Bird of prey" was an interesting concept, advertised as a one-off, like we believe that story ;). Personally, my favourite that did provide excellent service is the SR-71 Blackbird.

[Speed Twelve]

Overall, chopper2004's defence procurement plans are sensible policies for a happier Britain, but what's this?????

EFTS:Cessna 172 x 4 sqn

I ain't spending my working day sitting next to students in that piece of Spam scrap. It handles like a Routemaster bus and doesn't even go upside down... Must try harder!

How about the big-engined retractable Grob trainer instead? Oh hang on.....


:ok:

[chopper2004]

PrOOne, SpeedTwleve

Happy xmas guys and apologies if I went OTT, the brief moment of madness I had with inserting the 172 should have been the old Bulldog (my fav) ..however in hindsight what I meant was the screening by the USAF to see those who have the aptitude to fly.

My fantasy of a large army would be akin to below
http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4286


(scroll down lower the page please)

Polish Police - Page 2 - Military Photos (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=100866&highlight=poland+police&page=2)

:ok:

[Air Defender]

Most pilots want an aircraft that will go faster, higher carry everything, be invisible and stay airborne indefinitely whilst still being comfortable. Easy solution we could have several thousand of Santa's Sleighs fulfills all requirements.

Sorry I couldn't resist it is christmas.:ok:

[ZH875]

Ideal Air Force


Bombers - Lots
Fighters - Lots
Transport - Lots
Tankers - Lots
Helicopters - Lots
Servicemen/Women/Officers - Lots
Civvies - None
Royal Family playing with 'their' taxpayers toys - NONE

[Rigger1]

Civvies - None

Why not?

Using ex forces guys and girls in certain areas - in a job, say UAS's techs, or 3rd line deep maintenance, some training roles, where you won't / can't be deployed, saves a fortune and alllows the forces to retain a massive amount of experience that would otherwise disapear.

[Tiger_mate]

Civvies:
Why not?

The list for "Why not" in a ideal world is an extrememly long one starting at 'Service ethos' and filtering down towards 'Station Guard Force / Secondary duty manning', whilst the list "For" is a very short one "Cost Cutting".

That every single member of the Royal Air Force worldwide could be seated in Old Trafford with empty seats left over for the Air Cadets to pad out says much about the true capability of UK Defence Plc. Add to this the museum pieces that we are flying and the Oxford corroner will have enough to go on for decades.

Who would want a chair at the AFPRB 2009, for that surely has to be the crappest job that anyone could have in the coming year.

[Rigger1]

I hope all the ex service men and women out there who are still employed as 'Civvies' working for the forces feel valued and still members of the team, because if they pack up and go home, you aint half in the ****.

Remember not long from now all those who are now serving will be out and it's a strange world out here, where people suddenly don't call you mate and think you are a has been who knows nothing. You can drive up to the gate where you either stood, or commanded a few weeks ago and have to prove who you are without just waving a 1250, and no you can't just pop on to see a friend if they are not expecting you, and it will come sooner than you think.

[brakedwell]

Royal Family playing with 'their' taxpayers toys - NONE

Why not? One has to mix with the hoi poloi from time to time so why should'nt one dress up in fancy dress and play with their aeroplanes?

[zerva]

1: Empty your pockets and work out the budget.
2: Spend 89% on kit with 'Made in America stamped on the side'.
3: Go to Israel. Spend 10% on getting them it make it better.
4: Spend the last 1% burning all your old kit to avoid pointless circular arguments re polishing turds/buying British, Nimwacs, blah, blah, blah.

(P.S. Can anyone find me a combat pilot how doesn't like flying a 'F-any double didgit', Chinook, Blackhawk, KIOWA, AV8, Predator, Reaper?):ok:

[calumwm]

Tornadoes and Apaches at AEFs, *look at age :p

and get rid of civvy security on stations, replace them with the reg, and relocate the bases to Britains roughest towns and cities - give em a bit of action, without being deployed!

[SirPercyWare-Armitag]

Who cares what aircraft as long as Scampton Colt and Chiv are reopened?

[Pontius Navigator]

1. Get rid of JPA
2. Get rid of BOCS

Make the working environment easier to cope with. Then buy any airframes you want.

£10Bn, wholly unrealistic, try Tn.

Add Dii, that is over £7Bn on its own.