'Women airline pilots are best'

[shortfinals]

Really? Well, the argument is presented here: 'Women pilots are best for modern airlines' - Learmount (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/learmount/2008/12/women-pilots-are-best-for-airl.html)

Apparently they are better at teamwork which, in the latest generation aircraft, is what it's all about (assuming basic aptitudes, of course).

I think it's dangerous to generalise. I've worked with good pilots and indifferent ones, and the pilot's sex doesn't seem to have much to do with it. But why are there so few women who want to do the job?

[Jumbo744]

I think it's dangerous to generalise. I've worked with good pilots and indifferent ones, and the pilot's sex doesn't seem to have much to do with it.exactly, nothing to do with sex or race. Just good skills, a bright mind, and experience I think.

[Whirlygig]

But why are there so few women who want to do the job?
One cannot answer a question or discuss a topic like this without generalising!! And, ipso facto, any women responding on this forum will most likely already have an interest in aviation and therefore will not be representative. Most of my female friends may admire me for flying helicopters but most cannot understand any earthly reason why I should want to!

Women's brains are, generally, wired differently to men's (although some women can have "male" brains and some men have female "brains" - and this has nothing to do with sexual orientation). Women are, generally, better at language skills whilst men are better at spatial skills. Although there is plenty of research to back it up, it is general and there will always be exceptions.

OK, from my point of view - why don't I want to be an airline pilot (and I don't)?

For the same reason as I don't want to become a dentist; because I have no interest in it. :}

Cheers

Whirls

[whyisitsohard]

The problem with women pilots is simple: they go and get pregnant, then their line is covered by their colleagues, then the girls usually come back after mat leave and do a new rating or refresher sim, then they get pregnant again.

I'm amazed airlines take on any girls of breeding age. They cost a fortune.

And these are the comments of one who has no axe to grind, as I have a goodly family of my own.

V1!

[KandiFloss]

I'd lOVE to be an airline pilot, which is what i'm working VERY VERY VERY hard towards :ugh: . I think that it is perhaps not an automatic career choice for females, either because it is seen as a 'male' career, or because there aren't many female-pilot role models who young girls can relate to. As a secondary school teacher many staff and some of my pupils (girls and boys) think that it's cool that I fly.

Personally, I've always been in awe of aircraft, and although the dream is still MANY moons away i'll have to settle with watching aircraft at Manchester (Shhh ... enough about that!). I hope that people don't read this and laugh, but I find even sitting in a flight deck exciting ... ok i'll stop there. I'm not sure if you can compare driving with flying, but I would say that i'm also a better than average driver, even than most men, and get really frustrated by women drivers who dither/faff about/have no idea of spatial orientation. I would also say that i'm technically minded, can handle several challenges at once, and maintain a level head.

Being married to an airline pilot I have heard of stories of 'bad' piloting skills/aptitude, of both male and female pilots. I don't think that women who choose to fly make worse pilots, but I do feel as though there is a lot of pressure on females to fly A1 because if they don't men might say "Oh it's because she's female". I also think that men give each other more 'slack' if things go wrong.

[biddedout]

Whyisitsohard

Unfortunately, most airline Flight Ops Managers are still living in an era where they cannot get their head round maternity leave. When there are 101 outstanding projects which desperately need sorting and which need pilot input(sorting out manuals, performance data sim training scenarios planning etc), the best offer of ground job these morons can come up with is 9 months of photocopying and filing duties. Give them the right ground jobs to do and they could more than justify their salary.

Regarding the recent article about Female Space Shuttle Comanders in the Log. I wonder if NASA got them to do the photocopying when they were on maternity leave. Probalby not.

[daria-ox]

At some point in life woman has to have a child, a lot wants to. So what? You're away for a while but then your back, maybe in the next few years you'll be gone again for few months, what matters is that you know how to get the job done right, and the fact that you love flying. Isn't that all about?

I love flying, and yes. I'm a girl :E You don't have an idea of how much I get 'slagged' from a lot of people I know, at college and at work.

'Oh my God. You want to be a pilot? Hahaha. I would never fly with a woman because she can't do the job right'

Flying isn't only for guys. Maybe not a lot of females like it, but it's the same with males. My male friends think that I'm 'stupid' and 'crazy' and I keep wasting my life. But I think exactly the opposite. I have keen interest in Aviation, and always wanted to become a pilot, since a really young age ( it was since I went on the plane first time in my life, holidays in 98' :E

This is sex discrimination. Females and males have their own pluses and minuses. Most of guys think that a woman should sit at home, cook and clean, but it's not everyones dream. Is it?

[Whirlygig]

I think that it is perhaps not an automatic career choice for females, either because it is seen as a 'male' career, or because there aren't many female-pilot role models who young girls can relate to.That may seem like a rational reason but, I do believe, on the face of it, most women are just not interested in flying. Simple as. Nothing to do with role models and gender stereotyping (and women themselves can be just as guilty of this as men). After all, Pilot-Chick and Daria-Ox, did you you need a role model to arrive at your career choice? I'm guessing not!

The "issue" of pregnancy and children is something that affects many employment sectors, not just aviation. For example, a veterinary student and employer will invest a lot of time and money into training and qualification; however, veterinary practices don't use "potential pregnancy" as an excuse not to employ women (aside from it being illegal to use it as a reason!) as there is an equal mix of male and female vets. Plus there are also paternity leave rights now!!!

And Daria? Not all women want or can have children!!

Cheers

Whirls

[irishone]

Lol god some of those comments are hilarous. Not every woman wants a child, personally not my cup of tea...so no thanks!
It's all relative really, I wouldnt say woman are better pilots. You get good and bad in both.
We are better at everything else though! :P




....jk...before I get shot.

[Clandestino]

Thanks for the link, Shortfinals, but I see no arguments there. Everything I see is OAA's sales pitch. Seemingly they're running out of wannabees to train so they're trying to get more girls into aviation. They must be desperate if they're using such a nonsensical statements as "In an Airbus cockpit, there is a much shallower authority gradient".

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

I'm with Whirls on this one. Most of us girls just aren't interested, just as I am totally uninterested in golf or train spotting.

I actually LIKE being a flying instructor, am just not interested in airline flying... Shift work, marginally less boring than sitting in cattle class, away from home a lot, and having to put up with company politics doesn't float my boat.

Similarly I am just not interested in having screaming kids living in my house and taking over my life. God forbid, they might turn out like me. Quite happy as Auntie/Godmother, thanks!

I have had male and female students that are rubbish at flying, and male and female that are brilliant, and all stages in between. One the whole the way males and females learn, retain knowledge and problem solve is very different, which is what makes the job interesting, but the outcome is generally the same.

[BoeingMEL]

...Yep, gals can be much better at language stuff. (In fact, one time I got home late after a 4-week long-haul jolly, Mrs BM let go with such colourful and vindictive language that it took 3 weeks prescribed meds from my AME for me to recover.) Cheers bm:\

[Re-Heat]

although some women can have "male" brains and some men have female "brains" - and this has nothing to do with sexual orientatiom
Might be worth looking up the programme about orientation where the subject of research, and presenter, was John Barryman.

[jaimz1982]

Not sure about the question of are women / girls / lady Pilots better than men! That's a debate I don't want to join into, not whilst I still want to use my meat and 2 veg!

However, I am definately of the opinion that female Pilots are much better looking than male Pilots!! Much better!!!

[daria-ox]

I said a lot of woman wants to have a child, should have changed the 'has' to 'will'.:E Personally, I don't want screaming kids running around my house too.

[ali1986]

I dont see any reason why women pilots shouldn't be better or that they should either especially when your suposed to have a team on the flightdeck not just one person.

If they perform just as well as a man does as a team on the flight deck then i would see it as an asset to have their point of veiw, as women tend to be more logic than men in the way that they work i would say.

Also it would be intimidating for a girl to walk into this male industry, so i think thats another reason why we sadly dont see more.

It would be interesting to see what women thought about working with men and men working with women and women working with women when flying.

But overall I dont think it should matter what the other person sex is.

However i am with jaimz1982 on Women pilots being much better looking, :ok:

[Port Strobe]

women tend to be more logic than men in the way that they work i would say

And I'd say that's a load of tosh. However I do realise generalisations can only really come from one's own experience, quite obviously we've been exposed to different women :E

[Halfwayback]

With a handle like 'Port Strobe' and

been exposed to different women

you sound like a real little flasher!:}:}

HWB

[Nashers]

dont know about the flying part, but if a womans car parking is anything to go by, were going to have alot of wingtips that need to be resprayed!! either that or were going to have loads of traffic on taxiways from missed turns!!!:E

wonder what parallel parking in a 747 would be like...!:}

love you guys realy!:ok:

[mona lot]

You can't do this in a 'bus!

http://jethros.eu/fun/fun_pages/female_pilots.htm

[Max Angle]

We have a good bunch of lady pilots in our company (bmi), and although not a huge number in percentage terms there are enough of them to have changed the work environment and atmosphere in the company very much for the better.

As to competence, my experience is entirely the same as for my male colleagues, most are very good, some are really excellent and a few have struggled to make the grade, most struggled successfully and one or two didn't.

I agree with some of the posters above, there is no reason at all why a woman can't do the job just as well as a man but there are probably just fewer women who want to do it and that is almost certainly not going to change. It is, at the end of the day, a good job if you are interested in aeroplanes and aviation but with the hours and long periods away from home it can be a pretty strange way to earn a living and doesn't suit everyone, male or female.

[skysiren]

Nashers

Like soooo many men, you seam to have it in for women wanting to persue their dream jobs. As for your coments about women pilots clogging up the taxi ways. Only last week whilst I was with my student taxiing to the hold, a male pilot of a business jet somehow found himself at the wrong end of the runway. Not sure how that happened, maybe he was to embarrased to ask for directions ???

I often find that my female students are far more focused and situationally aware during their flights than their male counterparts who just wanna fly fast........

[Whirlygig]

It's less stereotypical than some of the facile comments from the men on this thread! What's sauce for the goose eh?

Cheers

Whirls

[worldpilot]

Situational awareness and informed decision-making in the cockpit has nothing to do with sexual orientation or gender. :D

WP

[mona lot]

To cite the article at the top of this thread;

"In the old round-dial days, both pilots had to form a picture in their heads of what the three-dimensional flight situation was"

So now with glass cockpits it would seem situational awareness is now redundant:ugh:

[IrishJetdriver]

Very different animals, men and women. In my FI days it was usually the blokes that clammed up once in the aircraft. Women are usually much more at face value although most of my "little surprises" have been presented by women, most notably releasing the controls, then saying "you have control" as we drifted serenely towards the grass. All this in a medium jet!

Women are allegedly better at multi-tasking and language skills are usually stronger. I can eat a sandwich while looking out the windscreen but not sure if counts as multi-task.

Mate of mine is a psychologist, and he was telling me how women can go to the shops with no apparent plan and come back having spent a small fortune. It goes back to when primitive people were simple hunter/gatherers. Women would set off not really knowing what they were expecting to find and thus would select many different things as they went along. Men on the otherhand would know they were looking for an Antelope but would disregard or not notice all the other flora and fauna around them.

Incidentally two of the best commercial pilots I ever flew with are women and one of the greatest test pilots ever was a woman. Hanna Reich. They do have babies though.

[ali1986]

Yeh just look at Amelia Earhart the first woman to fly solo across the atlantic.

Theres even a film being made about her

The Official Website of Amelia Earhart (http://www.ameliaearhart.com/viewheadline.php?id=4481)

[Whirlygig]

Not sure of your point there Ali; she also went missing, presumed dead, during a circumnavigational flight.

However, she wasn't the first person to fly solo across the atlantic, she was the first woman. If Amelai Earhart hadn't done it, another woman would have.

Cheers

Whirls

[ali1986]

Well none the less she was an inspiration.

I didnt say she was the first person to cross the atlantic i said she was the first woman.

''If Amelai Earhart hadn't done it, another woman would have'' well that's like saying if Neil Armstrong hadnt have walked on the moon some one else would have

i dont see your point:confused:.

[Whirlygig]

My point is, if Amelai Earhart had been the first person to cross the Atlantic, then that would have made her achievement all the greater; as it was, she just did something that a man had done before her. To be the first person to do something is more of an achievement than to be the first woman, the first gay, the first black, the first ....

Granted, in the age and time at which she did she would have fought more prejudice from society than women now, but, sooner or later, a woman would have made the same achievement.

Your anaolgy with Neil Armstrong fails because Neil Armstrong's achievement was down to hundreds of scientists and engineers and major Governemt funding in order to get mankind on the moon. Yes, if Neil Armstrong hadn't been the first, then someone else would have been as the NASA would have made sure of it!

Cheers

Whirls

[ali1986]

I'm not sure if i agree with you there, you shouldnt say that just because man did something before her, means that man is better at flying.

that is absolutely not true

[Whirlygig]

Please read what I am saying Ali; I am NOT saying men are better, I am saying that men and women are equal (in standing) and that it only because of previous societies, prejudices and even religion, that women have been held back. But when we are in a state of sociological flux, changes in inequalities are inevitable.

Cheers

Whirls

[ali1986]

''But when we are in a state of sociological flux, changes in inequalities are inevitable''.

lol

[Nashers]

skysiren, chilax! i was kiddin!! my cpl instructor was female and i thought she was great!

still think were better at parking than u girls though!:p:}

[worldpilot]

Mona Lot, from my perspective, situational awareness is more than the three- dimensional picture you mentioned. It is the "BIG PICTURE" based on several factors that determine the options we have available for maintaining a high level of safety during the duration of flight. Glass cockpit definitely enhances decision-making but has not made situational awareness redundant.:=

WP

[mona lot]

World pilot

That was my point and I totally agree with you. The BIG PICTURE is so much more then spending all day staring at a pretty multi coloured EFIS or ND display. I was being flippant and I apologise.

Anyone who thinks that the flight deck authority gradient is a function of the instrument fit is talking out of their vent and needs to spend some time on line. Authority gradient is more to do with the personality of both crew members and has very little, if anything to do with instruments and even less to do with gender!

Is the mumbo jumbo in this article seriously suggesting that graduates of modern FTOs cannot reliably and accurately interpret a good old fashioned HSI or RMI. And if they can they will be at the bottom end of a very steep authority gradient?

[redsnail]

All this crap about the cost of women becoming pregnant is just rubbish.
What about the cost of a bloke having a heart attack?
What about the cost of a person leaving after a couple of years for another company?
It's still a cost.

Women better than men? Women worse than men? Who cares. Men being worse than other men. Phht. Non event.

[TO MEMO]

very well said, redsnail

I have flown with women also and just like men, some are damn good, and some are not so good.

I can`t believe that ideia came from such an organization as Oxford academy... bull****! Crap!

Being a pilot is much more as for any other job, it`s not a question of gender but having the right qualities all together.

[Rj111]

I think if you trained 100 random males and 100 random females to be pilots, the males would be better at it. But that doesn't mean some females cannot be top pilots too.

[Checkboard]

I think if you surveyed 100 random 23 yo males and 100 random 23 yo females, the males would be chauvinist idiots. But that doesn't mean some males cannot be top blokes too. :ugh:

Why didn't you just say "Boys are better than girls ... nyah nyah!" :suspect:

[isi3000]

the males would be better at it

Where is your reasoning for this? Been watching the comments for a while but this one is too ridculous to ignore :ugh:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Flown with brilliant female pilots and rubbish ones. The chromosones don't matter a damn.

That is the final word. This thread is closed.

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