IFR FPL handling ?

[cvlux]

hi all,
let say that I want to fly from Lydd to Exter low level OCAS. I would like to know: is there a differance in the way that ATC handle the flight if fill it via homebriefing.com vs. the filling to the tower?

[julian_storey]

If you are OUTSIDE controlled airspace, you don't need to file a flight plan.

[Chilli Monster]

However, if you do file one the handling is still the same no matter how you do it - straight to IFPS.

As you're outside CAS however the only units that will get a copy will be the departure airfield and the destination. None of the en-route units will get it. So, as Julian points out, there's no need and, to be quite honest, little point.

[flightlevel1985]

Surely filing a flight plan would set off over due action if you failed to arrive ... Plus it acts as a booking out procedure for the destination airport.

[Chilli Monster]

A pre-departure phone call achieves the same thing.

[flightlevel1985]

Apart from the fact that the flight plan has the extras on the bottom, ie fuel endurence, equipment carried etc ... Just looking at it from a safety point of view.

[IO540]

A simple VFR route like

DCT ASTRA DCT NEDUL DCT GIBSO DCT at 2500ft

works fine and is accepted by IFPS (just tried it).

The problem is that when you depart from Lydd, they will realise you are not using the enroute IFR system and will not hand you over to London Control, so you will not get any kind of IFR service, and you may as well fly it non-radio. They will hand you over to London Info, which won't give you any CAS transit and no radar service.

If you wanted to get the pukka airway service, radar all the way, you need to file a decisive airway flight plan with a high level route, and the one I can get now is

LYD R803 MID R8 SAM R41 NORRY L9 BCN N864 EXMOR

which files at FL100 but is a totally silly route with a massive 60% overhead over GC. And you won't fly that route either because London Control will give you something else...

The only point in bothering to go "proper IFR" in a case like this is if you want to climb above icing layers, which you can't do in this region otherwise because Class A base is FL055 or lower.

A "tower" should send an IFR FP to IFPS (Eurocontrol) but sometimes they don't, when it is obvious that you are just messing about at low level, and they treat it as VFR and send it to the destination and FIS (London Info) only.

[Red Four]

'A pre-departure phone call achieves the same thing.'

A pre-departure phone call without a FPL (and departure message) does NOT set off overdue action.

[ShyTorque]

But a "responsible person", iaw with CAA advice, can and should be designated to do just that.

[Chilli Monster]

And there's no reason that you cannot designate ATC at the arrival aerodrome as your "responsible person".

So Red Four - it WILL initiate overdue action (and I should know, I've done it often enough in the day job ;) ) Even without being asked to, it's prudent to start the action "just in case".

[mm_flynn]

What flightplans do and do not do with regard to overdue action seems a bit of a mystery.

My understanding is -

1 - Everywhere other than the UK, if there is a flightplan that has a departure message and is not closed by 30 minutes past the ETA - Overdue action is started.

2 - In the UK OCAS flightplans (either VFR or IFR) are not actually closed, so there is no automatic process to start the Overdue Action - hence the requirement to have a nominated person.

That seems pretty simple, UK Flight Plan doesn't cause anyone to do anything if you go missing.

However, it seems if there is ATC at the destination field and they have a departure message and you don't show up - there is a high probability they/ATC will initiate Overdue action. Even if there is no flightplan but a PPR booking or a handling request they may well notice you haven't arrived and do something?

So I think this means that even though the FPL doesn't provide any guarantee of Overdue action, if you have filed a flightplan (or called for PPR or in any other way indicated a probability of arriving) and change your mind, a quick phone call to your destination is in order.


Is this correct??

[Another_CFI]

mm.flyn You are not strictly correct regarding overdue action and closing of Flight Plans. In the UK Flight Plans are not "closed" since the destination airfield is responsible along with others for inititing overdue action. Therefore if you have filed a Flight Plan and fail to arrive at the expected time then the ATSU at the destination will initiate overdue action.

The relevant extract from the Manual of Flight Information Services, for those airfiedls with FISOs is "Overdue action is not related solely to the filing of a flight plan. If, at any stage of a flight the pilot has made his intentions clear and subsequently does not arrive or report when expected, FISOs should seriously consider taking overdue action". The wording in MATS Pt1, for airfields with ATC is almost identical.

The nomination of a responsible person when arriving at an airfield without an ATSU ensures that appropriate action is initiated if you fail to arrive when expected.

[crjlover]

funny thing. I tried (filling it direct to the IFPS) both routes given by IO540 and it look like that both flight plans goes to the same addresses.
I will check it tomorrow when I have more time.

[IO540]

An IFR flight plan should be addressed to two Eurocontrol addresses (one address in Brussels plus one in Paris). This is the Big Computer in Brussels.

That is the easy bit.

The tricks start when you come to fly it. The low level route will end up being ignored by the IFR units which would have controlled you had you taken the high level version.

The mechanism behind this is complex and even though I have had it explained by various ATCOs, I never quite got to grips with it, and in any case the treatment differs a lot between the UK and elsewhere in Europe.

It starts with the allocation of a squawk.

If you take the high level route, you will get a specific IFR squawk allocated, which normally lasts the entire route, right across Europe perhaps. This squawk might have even come from Big Computer himself. Once you get airborne, when ATC radar picks up that squawk, the Big Computer says "G-XXXX is with us now, let's give him a service" and your callsign and filed route pops up on ATC screens all along your route within seconds, and when you call them up on the radio, they know all about you and give you a climb to FL100 or whatever. Just like an airliner. They don't need to know your departure, destination, inside leg.

But if you depart from Lydd on the low level route, nobody will give you that squawk because Lydd did not phone up London Control to ask for it; the Big Computer will never know about you, after about half an hour will forget about you (maybe), and you may as well have gone goode olde VFR (which in Class G, could be in solid IMC and nobody will give a damn).

There are certain ambiguous combinations in between, e.g. if you file for FL060 which is kind-of halfway between being a proper pilot and kerb crawling, and expect a service from London Control and a climb to FL150 or whatever. It is quite easy to get some squawk (from a Class D airport, for sure) but not the pukka Big Computer one, and when half an hour later you call up LC for a service they will tell you (politely) to go away because Big Computer has dumped you because it never saw the squawk it was hoping to see.

That is why the best way to play Big Computer is to file a flight plan for a really really obvious airways level (FL100+), with a really really obvious airways route (whether it makes sense geographically is irrelevant), and if there is the slightest doubt about the departure airfield knowing your intentions (which is quite possible if it is in Class G) you tell them you will be after a handover to London CONTROL.

The alternative, which is just fine within the UK, is to forget Big Computer, and hack it yourself in Class G, occassionally asking some Class D unit for a transit if you feel like the extra radio work versus the 5 minute time saving over doing a dogleg.

:)

[Fuji Abound]

IO540

Made me chuckle anyway - love it! :ok: