210 down at Sossussusvlei Mountain Lodge - Namibia ?!?

[Pow-wow]

Does anyone know anything about this yet ?
Hope everyone is ok !!!

[Voel]

Just heard it was V5RAS. No other info. It appears that all the Namibian Ppruners left the country, that's why news is rare

[Stierado]

Yup..heard it was RAS and no-one killed but plenty of broken bones...ouch...hope they´re all gonna be ok...!

[172driver]

What - again ?? :eek: Hope everyone's OK......

[dr27]

Just heard it was V5RAS. No other info. It appears that all the Namibian Ppruners left the country, that's why news is rare

Hey, Namibia; the land of multi million rand landings...wonder if insurance co are taking note...???:}

[Wyle E Coyote]

Not another one. Can't be many 210s left in Nam now. Eros used to have rows of them

[nibbio86]

Hope everything ok for the people on board.
Not another one. Can't be many 210s left in Nam now. Eros used to have rows of them
The problem is what can you replace a 210 with? 206s are probably too slow for the tipical Namibia sectors, Airvans the same or even worse. What else is on the market to take over the Centurions?

[Propellerpilot]

That is the biggest burden in Namibia: 210 is irreplacable and they are all getting old. The Namibian Market is probably too small to justify developments of a new model by the aviation industry. Times have changed were aircraft such as Cirrus are attractive for private aircraft owners - however these are not made to operate in the bush environment at all and do not offer the same payload specs. Speed is important and the 210 offers that, which also makes even the longer flights more bearable for the pax.

It also depends on the type of operation: if you are just doing pickup and drop off roundtrips like Sefofane, you could probably do everything in a Van. Flying Safaris with just 2-4 pax on board would just fall out of the programme or the booking agents would just have to be more organized to sell bigger tours and the sense of being on your own private tour would fall away and operators will also be far less flexible. That is where it also shows, how inovative a country is - in New Zealand you get PAC, Airvan in Australia etc that actually engineer aircraft for their local needs. In Namibia one probably can't expect such "innovation" even though it may be very appropriate - to have a fast, true 6 seater payload, turbine-powered high-wing bushplane.

I know the 206 is not as attractive, but it would be the only aircraft availiable that would come slightly close to offering the same kind of experience for the pax, as a 210 would offer - at a slightly higher cost factor due to lack of speed. But why are there few 206's around in Nam ? (I believe V5-ORX went down and is a write off or is she still flying?). I think it is due to the fact that there are very few operators that would actually buy new aircraft out of the box, at least that I know of and many are living off the second hand investments, that they made 10 or more years ago.

How much weight this poses on the safety issue discussed here, I don't know. As we have seen with V5-ORX - even newer models can be involved in accidents. I think first of all it is the "brain" sitting in the left seat as it is the operator and the maintainance guys servicing the aircraft, responsible for the condition, that should be looked at.

[nibbio86]

Propellerpilot, what you say sounds correct. But also here in northern Australia the 210 is the most extensively used single engine piston for charter operations, more than the 206 and the Airvan. I don't understand why Cessna chose not to keep open a little line for the production of the 210, I think there could be a niche replacemant market around the world and what the Centurion gives can't be matched by any other single currently in production. I've read that Cessna could have kept it in production if they made a modification to the wing, because it has one spar instead of the two required from FAR23 (don't quote me on that, not sure 100%). It wouldn't have been a big problem for them if they wanted to. Both the PAC and the Caravan cannot be compared with a 210 or 206, they're something completely different. The thing that I would be keen to see (and fly) is a turboprop version of the Airvan, let's say something in the 350-400hp range. Now as it is, with a Lycomin IO-540 looks very underpowered, expecially at MTOW in a hot humid day in the wet season.

[Propellerpilot]

Yes I agree with the above - however generally one should gradually move away from AVGAS dependancy alltogether. The 210 is not all peaches and cream - I think they could come up with something much better and modern. When we look at reality, a lot of times C210 are flown overloaded and this has caused accidents with fatalities. We need a six seater which can also take tourist luggage legally and have no problems with high density altitude. The 210 IS limited in this sense if you fly by the book and within the law.

What concerns the wing of the 210, it is one of the strongest ever built in such an aircraft. They discontinued building because a lot of pilots in the USA forgot to put the gear down or landed on the roof because they could not handle the laminar flow high speed wing - and ended up sueing Cessna for millions of $$$ in court. That is the story that I heard.

On the one hand I am sad to leave the 210 behind - had a lot of great times with this aircraft - on the other I am happy that I am no longer confronted with the daily risks of piston operation commercially. A twin turbine definatly feels a lot safer :O

[172driver]

So, what you are really saying here is that a scaled-down Caravan is what's needed, right? Btw, there are a few 210 turbine conversions around, bit pricey though. I guess one of the reasons of the enduring popularity of the 210s is just that - price. They are relatively cheap, fast and not too thirsty. To the best of my knowledge there is nothing comparable out there (other than perhaps the 206/207).

[Voel]

Here is the article on the accid but unfortunately in German. Bruchlandung bei Sossusvlei (http://www.az.com.na/lokales/bruchlandung-bei-sossusvlei.78057.php). Boils down to the fact that the pilot did a balloon landing, nose wheel broke off and flipped over. All ok but with some broken bones and scratches

[172driver]

So, porpoised on landing..... sounds like Propellerpilot has it right :(

[Propellerpilot]

For those that do not understand German, if I read that article from a pilot's perspective (if that what is discribed in the article is what really happend and I stand under correction), it is definatly not the 210s fault, more so the inexperience of the pilot - it shocks me personally that something like this took 500 hrs to surface, he was either not taught properly how to land this aircraft, not understanding the aerodynamics or he was in a state of mind and lack of awareness for whatever reason unknown to me - he was simply not in control of his aircraft on landing and also did not manage to take vital actions to regain control immediatly. Laminar flow wings actually make this situation worse.
This happens when you come in slightly fast and fly the aircraft onto the runway, so when the pilot tries to flare, the plane gets airborne again due to excess speed, it then looses speed which causes the nose to drop down (also by the pilot pushing the control-column slightly forward instead of back, in order to get closer to the runway and not to stall), by doing that, the plane accellerates again, the pilot flares and the aircraft gets airborne again decellerates - so it continues like a vicious circle until there is no more speed to flare and the nosewheel goes into the ground. The only way to stop this is to take action by either going around immediatly once the occillation has been identified (which the pilot probably tried according to the pax description - but it was already much too late and that is when the aircraft flipped over - a go around can be hard in a 210 because you are already behind the drag curve speed wise, with full flaps and all you will need FULL power to save the situation and get away from the ground, it will definatly be a slow step by step cleanup after speed is finally slowly gained - if you are overloaded or stalling by forcing back the controls to quickly: no chance). The other solution is flaring slightly more to prevent the nose from dropping to let speed bleed of and taking into account, that in the worst case, you might drop onto the main gear from a few feet higher (and harder) than normal, when stall speed is finally reached (after all this is what you want), but there will be no damage to the aircraft and no injuries, if done correctly - also it will help putting just an inch of power back to stabilize the approach and to avoid dropping hard like the CEO of Scenic Air suggested in the article, unfortunatly his pilot did not take any of these actions before it was too late.

So bottom line: not good - people injured, holiday ruined and last but not least a write-off that could have been avoided as well. :ugh:

[172driver]

Propellerpilot, excellent description for non-pilots. Happened to me once, shortly after gaining my PPL (I ended up using the technique you describe, i.e. continue the flare with a little bit of power left in to maintain control and bleed off speed - eventually made a 'firm arrival'). Sure as hell learned from it :eek: Shouldn't really happen after 500 hours, but there for the grace of God.....

Btw, this has nothing to do with it being a 210, this is very basic flying skill.

Anyway, best wishes to the injured :ok: