PIC in the USA

[patelv6]

Does anyone know whether PIC time while doing an FAA instrument or commercial rating in the US can be counted towards a JAR CPL or IR when converting .

JAR requirement states you need a 100hrs PIC to begin CPL and 75 hrs PIC for the IR.

Is logging PIC hours the same?

[BRS_flyer]

Solo PIC time is logged in the same way, however be advised that you can count safety pilot time as PIC under FAA rules but not under JAA so if you want to convert straight away avoid schools who do that during hour building for FAA CPL.

[Whirlygig]

JAR requirement states you need a 100hrs PIC to begin CPL
You sure? I think it means you must have 100 hours PIC before licence issue, not course commencement.

I don't know about FAA but in during a JAA CPL training course, all time is logged as Pu/t since you are undergoing training. FAA rules do seem to allow safety pilot time to be logged (whereas JAA doesn't) but actual training courses (whether FAA or JAA) must surely be dual!

Cheers

Whirls

[BigGrecian]

Does anyone know whether PIC time while doing an FAA instrument or commercial rating in the US can be counted towards a JAR CPL or IR when converting .

All down as dual. All training with an instructor is Dual under JAA.

Under FAA can be logged as PIC however, most students where I trained kept a logbook for their FAA stuff where they logged it as PIC and then a logbook which they logged it as dual for the JAA puropses then went onto continue to use for their JAA stuff.

[Capt Loop]

When I did my FAA Instrument Rating and the FAA IR Check Ride ALL my flying was PIC.

As a JAA Flying Instructor I queried this and was shown in the FAA FAR/AIM that as I was a qualified pilot, I was the pilot in command. This EVEN included the IR Check Ride as I also queried this with the FAA examiner.

I would agree that in JAA states you would log this as Pu/t. And the Instructor would log the PIC as the Student, is undergoing training for a rating/licence.

I cant comment about the FAA CPL but am assuming it is the same.......

[nh2301]

Under FAA rules you can log PIC any time you are rated in category and class, and sole manipulator of the flight controls.
But just because you are logging the time, doesn't make you the actual PIC. During IR instruction, the instructor has to be the actual PIC, since you're IMC.
For the safety pilot example, you must agree before the flight that the safety pilot is the actual PIC, while the pilot under the hood (You must be VMC for this) can log the PIC time as the sole manipulator.
By the letter of the rules, you could also have an instructor in the back seat giving instruction and all three logging PIC time.

[tbavprof]

Under FAA, the only one logging PIC during IR training in actual IMC should be the instructor. You're not allowed to operate PIC under IMC without the rating.

Checkrides are always logged as PIC. It's not training, you are demonstrating your proficiency. A bit of the chicken-or-egg dilemma, but I've never met a DPE or FSDO officer who stated anything different.

[Rotorhead1026]

Under FAA, the only one logging PIC during IR training in actual IMC should be the instructor

Incorrect. 14 CFR 61.51 is "aircraft rating" related only.


You're not allowed to operate PIC under IMC without the rating


Correct, but the discussion is about logging PIC, not operating as PIC.

Under 14 FAR 61, if you're handling the controls and rated in the category, class, and (if app.) type, you can log PIC. To be sure, it's not the "P1" type of pilot-in-command, so if you're filling out a job app for a foreign employer it almost certainly wouldn't count. It does count for FAA ratings. I can't help with the JAR stuff, but nh2301 and earlier posters seemed to have things right. No offense intended. The whole PIC thing makes little sense to me, but that's how it works. Have a column for each "type" of PIC and you should be well-covered. In fact, have a logbook with lots of extra (blank) columns so you can cover both sets of rules. The airplane won't fly until the weight of the paperwork ... :ugh: