Military exemption to age-discrimination legislation

[CirrusF]

The UK armed services currently have an exemption from age discrimination legislation, allowing them to set upper age-limits to recruitment.

The US have much higher upper limits, depending on trade etc, and these have all been increased over the past few years in order to meet recruitment targets.

Why are UK age limits still so low? As long as a candidate can meet the educational and fitness requirements, and has enough years ahead of him/her to repay the training investment, does age matter?

[AR1]

The Aussie limits are higher too - for an Eng Off role - they'd take me at my age! (well maybe not me at my age)

[airborne_artist]

Why are UK age limits still so low? As long as a candidate can meet the educational and fitness requirements, and has enough years ahead of him/her to repay the training investment, does age matter?

Because they have no shortage of applicants who have the qualifications required. When they can't get enough applicants they'll either lower the qualifications bar, or raise the age limit.

By example, you can join the RN as a schoolie officer up to the age of 35, because they could not fill the posts when it was limited to 28. They still push them through most/all of the outdoors stuff on Dartmoor, and some of the wrinklies are so feeble that they can't make it :=, I'm reliably informed.

[CirrusF]

General Requirements | Aerospace Engineer Officer - Armament | Defence Jobs (http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/airforce/jobs/AerospaceEngineerOfficerArmament/GeneralRequirements/)

Crikey mate, you're not wrong. Maybe I'll dig out my NZ passport from the attic.

[NickGooseBrady]

Wouldn't touch TM with a barge pole if I were you! Dullest branch on the planet. Take it from someone who once flew helos in the RN and then for various reasons (not least my complete lack of rotary flying ability) joined the branch. If you like aeroplanes and also being a bit "military" - ie working hard, playing hard and having a little adventure in your life then FORGET TM!! It really is 0830-1600 boredom. Albeit well payed boredom. I am now sticking with it until pension (5 more years) and then sodding off to the airlines (if they are back on track by then).

Seriously, do your homework, DO NOT believe the glossies!

Cheers NGB :ok:

[airborne_artist]

CF - I'm with NGB - don't even think about it.

[althenick]

I've often wondered about this. The fact is that the population is staying healthier for longer. for example we're seeng people run marathons without problems well into their 50's. So if someone can make the grade in all aspects of his/her appication then why not?

I think it would be no bad thing to have some maturity in the Junior messes to mentor some of the youngsters. :ok:

[AR1]

I guess the cost/return figures in a force that retires people at 55 aren't good enough to recruit 40 somethings.

Interesting post accusing the 'wrinklies' of being feeble, we aren't fit enough to do the job, yet when somebody makes a serving do PT you get in a huff because its not relevant.
Make your mind up! ;)

[NickGooseBrady]

Dude, there is only a couple of teaching posts left. Seriously, only about 3 in the whole branch and they are first jobs out of training which you would move on from after 2 years anyway. The rest of the teaching posts have all gone to civvy contractors who get paid less then half what you would be on. This is also another issue, you will spend your entire career working with Civil Servants. I am soon joining yet another establishment where over half who work there are Civil Servants. This makes life a total ball ache as it means you will get pinged for doing all the crap extra jobs that the strawbs refuse to do.

Yes you can go green beret if they manage to fit you in on a course, however that doesn't make you a Marine and you certainly won't be off doing fun bootie stuff, it will be back to the office for you. There may also be very very very limited opportunities to do some Int type work but again I can think of one TM who has managed to do that in 7 years.

I repeat again, if you enjoy teaching then this is absolutely no longer the specialisation for you. If however you enjoy organising meetings, taking minutes, being a general dogsbody, analysing training needs, doing stacks and stacks of paperwork then go for it!

At the very least, if you insist, then what about the equivalent in the RAF at least their stations are largely manned by service personnel (trust me, it makes a huge difference) and you can join an RAF Flying Club. You may even bag some back seat FJ rides. Ultimately though I would just steer clear of Training Management even if you are in the right age bracket, it is not worth it!

PM if you want an honest frank chat!

NGB :)

[Trojan1981]

In Australia, the Upper age limit for Pilots (at time of entry) are:

RAAF-45
RAN-49
Army-52!!!

I know of at least one long serving Navy observer who is 63 years of age! He was an observer on S-2 Trackers when Australia had a carrier!

If they are up to the job then why not?:ok:

[CirrusF]

In Australia, the Upper age limit for Pilots (at time of entry) are:

RAAF-45
RAN-49
Army-52!!!


Are those stated limits just fig-leaf cover for Australian age discrimination legislation - or do they actually take candidates of that age? Or do all older candidates "fail" the interview for unstated reasons?

In the UK, employers (other than the military) are not permitted to overtly age-discriminate. All this means is that candidates who actually don't have a hope of getting the job because of their age waste their time filling out lengthy application forms.

I have now filled out the online application for RAN aircrew so we'll see what happens!

[Trojan1981]

Due to recruiting targets not being met, older people are being recruited. I have seen recruits (not pilots) in their late forties. Most of them bring outside skills and that is probably a big factor. The oldest pilot cadets I know of were in their mid thirties, but I have been out for a while...

The economic downturn may affect this as the ADF has an exemption too.

[PPRuNeUser0211]

The canadians have a similar rule to the down-unders. So long as you can join, complete training and give a minimum stated return of service before mandatory retirement (i think is how the rules work!) then you're allowed in, otherwise it would be age discrimination. Obviously you have to pass the rest of the selection process with the youngsters...

As for BritMil discrimination... they have areas at OASC where they're practically begging to be sued right now that it's not pretty. Prime example is eyesight, with guys getting turned away at selection with better eyesight than those already in the service and flying with specs....

But as has already been pointed out, GD(P) has always been massively over-subscribed, and they have to fill nav slots somehow!;)

[anotherthing]

In the UK, employers (other than the military) are not permitted to overtly age-discriminate...
Not quite true - NATS has an open and legal age discrimination policy for its ATCO applicants.

It has nothing to do with return of service, but everything to do with the likelehood of someone above a cerain age succesfully passing the training.

There will always be people above the stipulated age who would be capable, but the numbers decrease as you get older. There has to be a sensible cut off point.

On top of that, as A_A alludes to - people still have to do the Dartmoor training - I no longer serve, but I'd be a bit peeved if someone joined a fighting force who could not even do the basic training. If there is no need for TM's to do the basic training (Dartmoor etc) to fulfill their task, then get rid of the branch and make it 100% civvy.

[Wader2]

If there is no need for TM's to do the basic training (Dartmoor etc) to fulfill their task, then get rid of the branch and make it 100% civvy.

Good point. There was a nurse who wanted a commission. She was mighty peeved when she was rejected and even tried sexual harassment claims. Didn't wash as her boarding officer was female.

Essentially many can do the trade but can they also serve as a serviceman?