Jet Airways Problems

[SERTORIUS]

Things sound dire at Jet Airways.
National pilots theatening lawsuit for Breach of Contract.
Expat pilots threatening action for the same reason.
Massive outstanding unpaid bills.
What is going on?

[Left Wing]

MUMBAI, Dec 8 (Reuters) - India's largest private carrier, Jet Airways Ltd (JET.BO: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), said on Monday it would lease out five aircrafts to other airlines on a wet-lease basis.

India's largest private carrier, Jet Airways Ltd said on Monday it would lease out five aircrafts to other airlines on a wet-lease basis.
It would lease out two aircrafts to Gulf Air Company for four months and three aircrafts to Turkish Airlines for six months, the company said in a statement.

Under wet lease agreement, the operational control and maintenance responsibility of the aircrafts would remain with Jet, it said. (Reporting by Janaki Krishnan)




© Thomson Reuters 2008 All rights reserved

[Geebz]

Careful what you read in the press. I would say they only got 50% of the story. But I could be wrong. I'm an Expat, have National pilots as friends. Both sides, company and pilots, remain in negotiations. I suppose it will take a few more rounds before they come to an agreement.

No doubt Expats are the target though.

[dragon330]

It seems that both the Nationals and the foreign pilots are threatening breach of contract.

How come both?

[merlinxx]

Why not ask them ?

[Sandstormer]

It is bad. Contract with the expats has been broken by the company without notice, in many areas, including announcing pay cut, suspending contractual home to duty ticketing, changing rostering practices, reduction of leave( by 2 weeks), and stopping meal allowances when away from home in base hotels. Oh and expecting crews to facilitate a 6 month wet lease to help out the company, and then no further services required.:=

[strummerdude]

...but still asking for volunteers to fly over christmas with the wet lease....does it get any funnier????

[roscoe47]

Yes, it's true. New changes for the Jet expats:
Leave reduced to 15 days vs 30 days
No meal allowance at base station
5% Salary reduction
No interline ticketing to reach base ($500 per month instead)

Probable changes:
$2000 per month and "find your own hotel" (great for crew security!)
Eliminate Jet paying taxes

And all of this just so we can start up a nice lucrative lease for them only to be sacked after the dollars start rolling in and continue long after we have been shown the door.:yuk:

[dragon330]

I understand that as soon as the contracted terms are re-instated, normal service will be resumed. Failing that, a mass resignation is a distinct possibility.

We live in interesting times!

[Rotorhead1026]

mass resignation is a distinct possibility



I don't work for Jet, and don't know any of their pilots, but ... baloney.

This is peanuts compared to what is going on back home (USA), and there have been NO mass resignations there. People will put up with an amazing amount of grief, especially when there aren't many other jobs. I suspect Jet management knows this.

In any case it's better to hang on and try to improve conditions. If I really felt aggrieved I wouldn't volunteer for anything, would drag my feet, and would keep my phone switched off as much as I could. Spend the extra time you generate looking for another job, but never resign in a huff.

[Left Wing]

http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/353348-sia-cargo-voluntary-no-pay-leave.html

look at SQ.....:{

[Sky Dancer]

yeah well it's not like the lost their jobs..they've just been given an option

[Flaperon777]

It would be insulting to even compare the two airlines in the same sentence!
One's a disorganised collection of politicised morons led by an insecure paranoid blackmarketeer.And the other's an epitomy of an airline in every sense of the word....:D....the highest standards set for airlines have been done here ( SQ ). Need I say more....

[roscoe47]

"One's a disorganised collection of politicised morons led by an insecure paranoid blackmarketeer."

Very well stated!!!

The Jet Airways 777 operation is staffed largely by pilots whom have already served full careers at major US airlines and have their pensions. To most the opportunity to continue flying past age 60 was something they had not expected as the US had not yet changed the retirement age to 65. They were lured to Jet by a very nice 36 month contract and, once in place, have had the contract eviscerated bit by bit over the past 20 months. After just a few months in place Jet attempted to eliminate paying the taxes without saying anything to anyone. A mass resignation was threatened and the taxes were again paid, including back taxes.

There is currently a move to collect names of those willing to resign. So far the number of names represents approximately 20% of the expats on the 777 and the numbers are growing as others see this groundswell gaining momentum.

While this group has enjoyed trying to help Jet achieve world class status the frustrations with Jet have pretty much overridden the joy of continuing to fly past the time when they thought they would be enjoying their golden years. As one stated "my fun meter is pegged after dealing with the deceit."

When you consider that Jet intends to simply use these seasoned aviators to:
begin 2 wet lease programs and fly them until the nationals are trained to replace them;then be sacked while the profits keep coming in to the coffers of Jet;and to do all of this after undergoing significant cuts to their contract;I feel the chance of a rather large exodus is substantial.

Jet can ill afford to fail in honoring the signed wet lease(s) by having expats resign, but the expats easily can afford to go home.....and stay home.

We shall see.

[Sky Dancer]

Well said both of you.Jet Airways has lost the plot over the years.Too many changes at the senior management level at regular intervals over the years , marked drop in standards of flight crew and also of cabin crew.And to add to it all , till date no one has been able to ascertain the source of Mr.Goyal's funds.To sum it all up , it's just become the private sector equivalent of Air India.And yes it can never be compared with SQ or many other world carriers for that matter..:ok:

[captplaystation]

Cowboys & Indians. . . what a classic combination :rolleyes:

[kri777]

very well said.....:):):)

[fullforward]

We've some highly biased comments here...

Nor SIA is the 7th wonder of the world, nor JA is all that crap somebody is posting: I have friends happy there (or at least were happy before the huge global turndown and consequential contract degradation). At least 6 captains RESIGNED from SIA, others from EK to join JA, even being offered contract renewal (it was one year ago).

I had a very unpleasant personal experience with SIA: back on 2000 when I was flying B767 there was a program to upgrade to 777, as SIA was taking delivery of them by the dozen. I applied and was offered an interview date. I responded that, due to duty requirements, I could not atend that date and kindly requested a possible alternate date. Somebody named Jokilah Anthony ( I don't know who she/he thinks he/she is...) responded something like this: "We have no alternate dates and from now on consider this invitation cancelled"....What a ridiculously arrogant person!! I just took off from my of options working for that kind of people.
I have no ideia how are things today, but from the posts I've seen above there are very arrogant guys working there! How you dare to comment about the technical standards from a company you don't work for??? What you know about that?

[fullforward]

Better check your sources.

I met JET 330 Fleet Manager today, through a common friend, and he commented about only the two going to Gulf. Nothing else.:confused:

[Aeronotix]

From what one hears, 4 B-77Ws are lined up for wet-lease to Turkish for a 6 month period, which may continue into a dry-lease mode for a longer duration. 2 A-330s are going on initial wet-lease to Gulf Air. Crew for both will go on a rotation basis.

One way to lessen the financial mess and keep going till the aviation tide turns.

Aeronotix

[Flaperon777]

Yes,
I confirm what Aero said.
Only difference in what I heard is that the numbers are 4-777's and 3-330's.....
Well lets see.....:(
PS-fullforward- Pls ask Manoj.......he'll give you the exact picture. If you know what I mean!

[in FACT is]

fullforward, yes I'm agree with you 98% of SIA staff are are very arrogant guys working I had the same experience too in late August 2005 with the same person (she)Jokilah Anthony I think she is replaced now with somebody less arrogant, but the attittude of the staff are the same, they think SIA the only place pilot's will apply, and thank's GOD I'm not working with them and I'm happy where I'm now:ok:

[hamil]

Hey, old chaps, cool down, please …

Individuals like J. can be found everywhere and I suppose we, as expats, have learnt from all airlines that they have their own personnel willing to be a jerk with someone, and that staff comes in different levels, including some level 6 fully operational. Maybe Jet Air has been in a different stage at this time, but there is a famous old Spanish saying: “No creo en brujas, pero que las hay, las hay”.

If some years ago you didn’t manage to get a job with SIA, fortunately hundreds of expats did, and so far they can be unhappy with a lot of things - as usual, but is there any difference where you are now? - however the atmosphere is not bad as you have been said. I’m really sure we could say the same about your current airline, EY, EK or whatever, but before starting a dispute among colleagues in different jobs we must understand there is not a perfect place as expat where we can put all together a good and stable all-year round lifestyle with our families (I don’t believe if your wives have absolutely no complaints), the best salary in the industry and, of course, having a problem-free job for all those long years we have to stay out of our countries.

Good luck for you guys at Jet and SIA as well, but we must become a community before bashing each other.

By the way, how has the situation been in Mumbai lately and any expat pilot was directly affected during those terrible days (along, of course, with other foreigners and locals)?

[blaireau]

Some expats managed to escape to Air India before the embargo.

One has described Jet Airways as "a smooth well oiled machine by comparison"

I have an active imagination, but this is a bit of a challenge!

[Rotorhead1026]

has described Jet Airways as "a smooth well oiled machine by comparison

I don't work for either operation, but I have heard this from multiple independent sources and have seen the difference myself. It seems to be true. The difference in contract terms should be a clue.

[awacs]

Guys,

I'm and expat working for IndiGo, and we are having a problem. It seems the company is making noise about letting us go home this rotation. Something about the security clearences for our airport pass. Is anyone else having this problem?

[captplaystation]

I am not in anyway involved, but if it smells like bullsh1t it normally is bullsh1t.
Very convenient excuse after the troubles, and of course you have no way of knowing what it takes to obtain this newly enhanced clearance so you can't contradict them.
Sounds more like we want rid of you (collectively I assume) and this allows us to do it without being open to various (well founded ) accusations.
Sounds like you ain't welcome any more :confused:

[Left Wing]

LONDON: A Jet Airways pilot was arrested by armed police after staff at London's Heathrow airport warned he may have drunk too much to fly, a
newspaper reported on Tuesday quoting police.

Michael Harr, a 62-year-old ex-US marine, was taken off the flight to Mumbai Sunday by officers and subsequently failed a breath test at 9.30 am in the morning, The Sun reported.

He was due to be first officer on the Boeing 777 flight and was in the cockpit, preparing for take-off when police took him away.
A spokesman for London's Metropolitan Police said: "At approximately 09.30 a.m. on Sunday December 21, officers attended an aircraft at Heathrow Airport and arrested a man aged 62.

"He was arrested on suspicion of being aviation staff performing an aviation function whilst exceeding the proscribed alcohol limit - contrary to Section 93 of the Railways and Transport Safety Act 2003. A breath test was administered."

Harr has been bailed to reappear in court at a later date.

[Chipmunkpac]

How could you miss out her highness Joyce..(surname not sure) plse don't insult her by leaving her out. What an attitude she had...enough for me to run in the opposite direction.

[Flaperon777]

Chipmunkpac,
Why don't you go get a face wash and freshen up a bit huh? What's this a forum for....???!! Personal vendattas and witchhunts...??? I'm well aware of your background,and your personal axe to grind with person in question.But you have NO BUISNESS taking names on an anonymous forum.
Keep it clean my friend,keep it clean.More importantly,I would wholeheartedly DISAGREE with your point of view in regards to person mentioned.An extremely and enormously professional woman,if i've EVER seen one.But only with like minded people.
And you're best off not messing with her!
Now if you're not one of those.......
You reap what you sow my angry friend.....
But of course.You're from Jet Airways are'nt you........:ugh::ugh::ugh:
Merry Christmas.

[jet pilot 737]

Would you be from SIA

[Flaperon777]

Maybe,maybe not.But I definitely have some very good friends in SIA who'll back my info to the hilt...!

[B737NG]

Gent´s, Cowboy´s and all others.....

History has shown a fact: Before ExPat Pilots become a community and thinking united even flying diffrent Flags there is alot of water running down the Colorado and the Nile together with Christmas and New Year at the same day......It is sad to see how distinguished People of a highly seen profession clash and batch each other and react foolish. In the same moment I am thinking how are they acting in the Flight deck ?? and how is the climate to fly with them together in the same Airspace.... That just jumped into my mind when I was reading thru the responses here.

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[sky jet]

What?

"History has shown a fact: Before ExPat Pilots become a community and thinking united even flying diffrent Flags there is alot of water running down the Colorado and the Nile together with Christmas and New Year at the same day......"

Are you related to getsetgo?

[Rotorhead1026]

Are you related to getsetgo

Unlikely ... but Jack Daniels, Johnnie Walker, and Jim Beam are all possibilities.

[Acomabird]

Quote:
Are you related to getsetgo
Unlikely ... but Jack Daniels, Johnnie Walker, and Jim Beam are all possibilities.

...Now that funny .... In 737NGs defense, I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

[Che Xindamail]

And when you've known him as long as Al Pacino has, it's John Daniels.

[Sandstormer]

I hear that Jet are now doing a wet lease with Oman Air too for the A330. Does anyone know how many aircraft and when?

[fullforward]

You're in the good company of at least 1,000 Jet pilots with your doubts. Probably including company's top management.
Nobody seems to have a clue on what's really going on (or the best thing to do!!)

[Aeronotix]

This management of Jet Airways seems to have lost its way. With its callous attitude, regressive policies, and penny wise pound foolish strategies it has alienated both, the expat and Indian national pilots. When the industry tide turns and demand rises they will find many an experienced flight deck crew across fleets gone to greener pastures.

A once reputed scheduled operator may reduce itself to a leasing company!

Aeronotix.

[fullforward]

"A once reputed scheduled operator may reduce itself to a leasing company!"

Sad, but true..this is an ongoing process...

[Geebz]

India is in contraction at the moment so the flavor of the day is to trash contracts with any and everyone. India aviation will grow again. There is no doubt about that. It will be interesting to see what kind of talent they attract when the growth picks up at that time. Since contracts are broken without consideration of the foreigner, I imagine the next growth phase will cost Indian carriers dearly.

[Aeronotix]

You bet it will cost them dearly. And its not just the foreigners whose contracts are broken. Indian pilots are suffering too with the career regression policies thrown in that violate the original career progression policy signed between their association and management. At least, the expat pilot can look out for greener pastures now and later. The Indian pilot is bonded for his contract period and also with the ridiculous 6 months one sided notice period made mandatory by DGCA. Suppose one just has to wait till the tail winds blow again.

Aeronotix.

[Geebz]

You're right! And I don't blame the Indian pilots for demanding more for themselves, nor for seeing the foreign pilot as an obstacle to their career progression. However, it is probably counter-productive to gang up against the foreigner in this environment. They can be the Indian National pilot's biggest ally. Otherwise management will whipsaw one group against the other.

As long as pollution and corrpution are around, there will always be a brain-drain in India and pilots are no exception to that. As a result, India will need to attract experienced senior commanders... especially considering growth will indeed take over again simply due to demographic trends.

The first thing you need to do, as an Indian pilot, is demand is that the government remove such a retarded and corrupt law like the 6-month notice. Totally unfair, totally unjust and just not what free-market economics is about. Now is the time to get moving on that action, not once growth sets back in. The next thing you need to do is develop communication channels within your union so that the expat pilots stay informed and work with you, rather than against you. This last episode played out in the press and ultimately proved counter-productive to all.

[gabu1234]

Been here for quite some time now, and I guess the only hopeful part of this airline, is it cannot get any worse(or maybe it can).

I am running far away......

[Schumi - Red Baron]

MUMBAI: Hit by economic slowdown, private air-carrier Jet Airways will be leasing out four of its wide-bodied Boeing 777 aircraft to Gulf Air

Earlier too, Jet Airways had leased out two of its A330 aircraft to Gulf Air for four months from December last.


Are they still operating on international routes ???:confused:


Taken from:
Jet Airways to lease 4 Boeing-777 aircraft to Gulf Air-India Business-Business-The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Business/India-Business/Jet-Airways-to-lease-4-Boeing-777-aircraft-to-Gulf-Air/articleshow/4177981.cms)