Crazy to think of Scotland based work?

[dnheli]

Greetings;

My corporate dept in the NYC area is closing and I'll be jobless in a few weeks.

Among many ideas is offshore (or other) work, but based in civilization. Some ancestors hail from Scotland, which got me to thinking about looking for work based there. Certainly a uninformed notion, hence the request for feedback.

I'm qualified for the work, with 19 years military and civilian flying, UH-60s and S-76s, 3500 hrs.

Mainly wondering about the work/schedule/living conditions. Am I hopelessly naive to think it could be interesting to work some days/weeks and travel the country on off days? Or is it truly brutal work?

Thanks.

[darrenphughes]

Well if you can get over the immigration problem, then the next hurdle is the 14 JAA ATPL exams(can be busted out in 6 months if you're pushing it hard). I'm just finishing up mine now, and I can tell you, they're nothing like the FAA tests. They're laden with lots of irrelevent information, as well as relevent information that is way too in depth, that some lunatic deemed necessary to fly helicopters. The the big one is the JAA instrument rating which will set you back, now you're gonna need the Vaseline for this one, about GBP£25K-GBP£30K.. You'll more than likely need that to have a good hope of getting work over there. Although with 3500 hours you might find something without it.

Your best bet might be Vegas or the GOM(especially with S76 time). Although I have heard a rumor about lay-offs in Vegas last night through a friend of a friend, whether it's true or untrue is another story.

Sorry for the pessimistic outlook, I'm normally quite an upbeat guy!!!:)

Just out of local curiosity, where are you working now?

[the beater]

From what I gather from reading other posts, there isn't much recruiting going on oop North at the moment. I'm sure that there are better qualified people here to advise you, but you would need a JAR acceptable licence with an IR. From my experience the most brutal work is in the corporate sector, so North Sea work is definitely worth a punt.
Best of luck.
I've heard that the psychometric process is 'interesting'.

[BaronG]

Well I wouldn't say it was "crazy" - it's definitely possible but it depends on how motivated you are to do it and whether you have the cash available.

I'll just list the steps again since people above have pointed them out :

1) Visa/Permission to work - without this the whole thing is no go.

2) JAA Class 1 medical - Shouldn't be a major issue and can be obtained a bit cheaper on the basis of an FAA medical, but you need to have it and they can be quite thorough. I believe I'm still correct in saying the only place an intial UK Medical can be obtained is from Gatwick in the UK (the UK CAA HQ is there).

3) CPL/ATPL conversion. Firstly there are the 13 exams. There is no "self-study" for these exams - you have to do some kind of approved course. There is (was?) at least one course that you could take on a home study basis with a company called Bristol Groundschool but even for that you have to go to their facilities in the UK for 2 weeks before each block of exams. The alternative would be a full time study course which will also take about 6 months (I suppose you could do this at the Bristow Academy in Florida).

4) CPL Flight test - this needs to be done with a CAA examiner but it's possible to do it in the USA at the Bristow Academy. This costs a fair bit - the examiner alone is expensive (around £350 if memory serves) and then there's aircraft hire on top (perhaps £250 depending on type).

5) JAA IR - This has to be done in a full IR approved aircraft, which for the UK will basically mean a twin turbine or the one single turbine that is approved. It doesn't really make much difference in the end they're all going to cost the same roughly. For an IR conversion from FAA you're looking at a minimum cost of about £19000 - this is for the whole lot and includes taxes. Bear in mind that this will take around 2 - 3 weeks, assuming you crack through it in the minimums and you'll need to be in the UK while doing it.

6) With all that stuff you can get your license issued - the best bet is to go to Gatwick and get them done "over the counter" since there are some horror stories of logbooks going missing in the post/at the CAA etc. There is a pretty hefty charge for licenses - around £110 I think per license.

7) Get a job. It's unclear at the moment but hiring does seem to have slowed a bit. Scotland offshore is Bristow, Bond and CHC. All are using various Eurocopter types and all will offer conversions if you're hired in exchange for a bonding of 2 - 5 years depending on what they need to get you.

As mentioned above, CHC have a rather difficult hiring process which involves extra written tests, interviews with a psychologist and a simulator based flight assessment in Norway. Bristow just seem to use a regular interview plus sim check, and Bond just do an interview. They all pay more or less the same, although there is some indication that CHC benefits may be a tad bit better (they still have a final salary pension for example), while Bond benefits are the worst but they pay a tad bit more to make up.

8) Commuting - the companies may offer a commuting roster. It could be 14/14 but potentially 7/7 (that's going on what I know from a colleague). If you can fit that into flying back and forth to the US then great. I don't think Bond will provide such a roster though, but I'm not sure either way. CHC and Bristow seem more likely. If you'll go to somewhere like Scatsta then you might find something nicer in terms of roster but you're in a more remote location so travelling there and back may negate the extra time.

Finally remember that unless you're offshore based then you'll need to pay for accommodation near your base.

9) Pay - IF you were to go the offshore route then you'd start as a First Officer. Bristow and CHC have BALPA negotiated payscales so you get paid based on a fixed set of criteria. FOs start at around £35000 per year and go via Senior FO to around £60000 per year based on hours and longevity of service - I imagine with your hours you be somewhere near the upper end of that FO scale to start with. Commanders are paid on a similar basis starting around £55000 per year and increasing to around £90000 per year. These are numbers for "basic" line flying pilots. If you take extra responsibilities (Chief Pilot, Line Trainer etc) then there are additional pay increments and there is the possibility of overtime and offshore allowances if you are based offshore.

Oh I should point out these numbers are before tax - in the UK the highest tax rate is 45% although I think it's going to be 40% for the kind of pay we're talking about here. To give a more practical number - if you're getting around £50000 per year, your monthly income into your bank account will be around £2800 (not allowing for any pension payments you choose to make).


Well it's not cheap or easy, and depending on your current circumstances the final pay may not even be worth it (see the exchange rate too - good one way but not the other) - but with the right attitude, the process may be fun!

One final thing, if you're able to get work in the Norwegian sector you may find you get a better solution - the Norwegians seem to get better rosters and pay than us in the UK for the most part. However, the Norwegians pay even more taxes than us so it may be the benefits are only "on paper".

BG.

[darrenphughes]

You can do a distance learning course through Caledonian Advanced Pilot Training (http://www.captonline.com) and do the consolidation weeks and exams in Florida through Bristow who have a deal with CAPT. That's what I'm doing, and it's worked out pretty good so far. 10 exams passed on the first try, and working on the last 4 now.

[Staticdroop]

The companies mentioned in the previous posts, apart from Bonds, have international divisions where you would be able to get work on your FAA ticket and S76 rating and save the bother of completing further irrelevant exams, the pay is tax-free but you will have to be aware of your own countries tax laws.
Have fun trying to get any kind of information out of them regarding terms and conditions as they tend to make it up as they go along.

[maeroda]

BaronG

regarding point 9 and subseguent: given your numbers as income before taxes, do they include per diem and daily allowances?

thank you

maeroda

[pamphletboy]

If you have ancestors (i.e. grandparents for whom you have their birth certificates) who were born in Scotland (or anywhere in the E.U.) that might make the visa easier!:8

[Bladecrack]

4) CPL Flight test - this needs to be done with a CAA examiner but it's possible to do it in the USA at the Bristow Academy. This costs a fair bit - the examiner alone is expensive (around £350 if memory serves) and then there's aircraft hire on top (perhaps £250 depending on type).

Excellent and very informative post BaronG. :ok:Regarding costs, according to the CAA website a Skill Test for a Professional Licence & an IR Skill Test is £729..:{

[Whirlygig]

The gist of BaronG's post is correct but, if you have more than a few thousand hours (I can't remember the exact figure), then you may be exempt the classroom element of the groundschool for the ATPL exams but the study still has to be through an approved school (!)

Also, the highest tax rate in the UK is 40% and has been for some time but you must also factor in National Insurance (another tax!) which varies according to income but reckon on about another 8%. This might help! (http://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php)

And the actual licence is is at least double the £110 quoted!

Cheers

Whirls

[dnheli]

Mr. Hughes; looks like I'm across the Hudson from you, in northern NJ. I know another Irishman who immigrated and made it from horse and buggy driver to S76 driver...

Thanks for the license info. I'm especially curious now, since others have indicated to me that I can work overseas on a US certificate, and that whoever the employer is takes care of the various paperwork. Am I being led astray by this latter advice?

dave

[dnheli]

Thanks to the beater, Staticdroop, and the others for your valuable comments!

Pamphletboy;
That’s an interesting thought. My grandmother was born in Perth, we found the home on a previous journey but it was a while ago. We do have some record showing her birth date and address, not a certificate though. That would have been in the late 1800s time frame. Good idea, I’ll have to follow that up with research.

[dnheli]

BaronG;

Thanks for the very detailed response. I’m not thinking of just arriving there and looking for work, I would pursue this through one of the big international firms. As such, I’m of the understanding the Visa would be taken care of and quite possibly the medicals and checkrides done in-house by staff, maybe that is wrong information. Thanks goodness I made this post to get a more realistic view.

I do see Staticdroop says I can fly without the additional exams, ratings. For the US taxpayer, last time my wife worked abroad, the federal gov’t exempts a certain amount of pay from tax, but our state, New Jersey, makes you report your full worldwide income and taxes it.

I do have a US helicopter ATP and Class 1 medical, and would look at the whole thing as, yes, a life adventure in something quite different from my usual existence.

For commuting, I wouldn’t come back to the US that often, maybe quarterly or so, with the idea to have a local apartment and travel on days off.

My current circumstances are: unemployed in three weeks but getting some severance pay. Here, hiring seems to have leveled off in the Gulf of Mexico.

What kind of life would one lead on £2800? A decent, clean one bedroom place, enough to eat, a used car? or would it be reasonably more or a lot less comfortable?

[212man]

I do see Staticdroop says I can fly without the additional exams, ratings

He is referring to working in the International divisions of the main players, not the UK. So, you would be on a 6 week on 6 week off deal in Kazakhstan, Nigeria, Ghana etc etc.

[Whirlygig]

What kind of life would one lead on £2800? A decent, clean one bedroom place, enough to eat, a used car? or would it be reasonably more or a lot less comfortable?
Yes, you'd be fine; even in Aberdeen (which is quite expensive). Atypical 1 bedroom flat would be about £500 a month and 2 bedroom £700 - houses are more expensive. You also need to consider Council Tax which is based on the size of your property.

Cheers

Whirls

[chcoffshore]

Yes, you'd be fine; even in Aberdeen (which is quite expensive). Atypical 1 bedroom flat would be about £500 a month and 2 bedroom £700 - houses are more expensive. You also need to consider Council Tax which is based on the size of your property.



And the rest...............................and thats in a bad area

[Inverted81]

Hi
I'm an ATCO at Aberdeen, and at the moment i bring home around £2800 pcm. I rent a 2 bedroom cottage, large garden, away from the hustle and bustle of city life, to the North of Aberdeen. I pay £600pcm for that. Council tax is £100 and electricity (fixed rate) each month is £70. Thats my fixed household outgoings. Depending on any other commitments you may have, loan repayments, credit cards etc etc, the salary you have been quoted should be more than comfortable. My commute incidently is only 12 miles which equates to 20mins depending on the traffic.

All the best for the coming weeks! :ok:
81

[902Jon]

From the UK immigration website regarding UK ancestry:-

This page explains how Commonwealth citizens with a grandparent who was born in the United Kingdom may be able to apply for permission to live and work here.

If this page does not answer all your questions, you can contact us.

If you are a citizen of a Commonwealth country and one of your grandparents was born in the United Kingdom (including the Channel Islands or Isle of Man), you have United Kingdom ancestry.

You can come here to work if you can show that:

you are a Commonwealth citizen;
you have a visa or other form of permission to enter the United Kingdom because of United Kingdom ancestry, or your permission to stay here in this category has previously been extended;
you are aged 17 or over;
you have a grandparent who was born in the United Kingdom (including the Channel Islands or Isle of Man) or a grandparent who was born in what is now the Republic of Ireland before 31 March 1922;
you are able to work and you plan to do so in the United Kingdom; and
you can adequately support and accommodate yourself and your dependants without help from public funds (see rights and responsibilities for more information on what this means).

So - If you have Commonwealth citizenship, with your Scottish ancestry, you have a right to live & work in the UK. If you don't, you would then have to get a working visa. To get that visa as a pilot you would have to demonstrate that there was a shortage of qualified/skilled people for your profession that is needed in the UK. With a number of pilots unemployed in this country you would be unlikely to prove a requirement.

As said in an earlier post, try the international divisions of the major companies. With a FAA licence +IR you should have little trouble finding overseas work, without the hassle of CAA/JAA licensing.

Good luck

902jon

[HeliComparator]

If oil stays below $50 it might not be a good time to spend a lot of money trying to get an offshore job in Scotland. Typically flying activity lags behind oil price a year or so, and so far we have not seen much reduction in activity but its early days...

HC

[Phil77]

Helicomparator: using your argument we should have a blast next year with the oil prices have been 3.5x higher than the year before (with a sudden decline in fall next year) :E :rolleyes:

[ShyTorque]

What kind of life would one lead on £2800? A decent, clean one bedroom place, enough to eat, a used car? or would it be reasonably more or a lot less comfortable?

How does tatties, neaps and haggis sound? You only get the haggis in season if you can shoot straight.

[Ivor_Novello]

Surviving in Aberdeen on less than 1k a month.
Not ideal, but can be done.

Don't see a problem with 2.8k a month available ;)

[dnheli]

Fantastic replies, all!

I'll continue to pursue this as one of my options, hopefully if it works out I won't be displacing a local unemployed pilot.

dn

[902Jon]

dnheli

So do you have Commonwealth citizenship?

If you do not, (and are not a European citizen) you cannot get a work permit.
UK companies can be fined big money for hiring non-europeans that have no right to work here. Much the same as your US green card system I guess. You could get all the licenses and qualifications but it wouldn't change your nationality and therefore employment status.