Teaching in aviation without any wings...

[speaker]

I've just failed my class two medical so my flying wont be a career option, not even in a Tomahawk on my own. :confused:

But what i'd love to know if possible from someone here is:

Are there any career paths in teaching within aviation that dont involve me having to have a licence or actual flying experience? Teaching in a sim, theory class, systems training classes or something? How do people get into the simulation area of work, are they always ex line pilots? Ive got 8 years in IT but dont feel im where I want to be industry wise so would love to move into aviation.

Im just assuming without my own wings the options are limited but I have no idea of what the training side of the aviation industry is like or anyone to ask except here

:ok:

[BelArgUSA]

Suggest you consider career as dispatcher in flight operations.
If you do the FAA DISP training, takes about 2 or 3 months and US$4,000...
Then from dispatcher, you could teach classroom flight planning.
To teach other pilot subjects - consider FAA Ground Instructor certificate.
Then combine Dispatcher/Instructor privileges... No medical required.
Best of luck
:)
Happy contrails

[Superpilot]

A good percentage of people who teach ground school subjects are not ex line pilots. They are in fact ex mechanics and systems technicians. Depending on which IT discipline you work in, there could be an easy transition path for you. What exactly do you do?

[Lew747]

speaker- how did you fail your class 2 medical if you dont mind me asking?

Lewis

[eliasg17]

Suggest you consider career as dispatcher in flight operations.


Could i ask what actually does a flight dispatcher do?Is there any jobs in europe?How much is the average salary etc?:ok:
Speaker sorry for jumping your thread:}

[speaker]

Interesting, so the FAA will allow you to teach certain things without flight experience. I wonder what the case is in New Zealand.

My background in IT is abot 8 years of tech support and network admin stuff. Im 27 but would consider going back to college if I could get the money together to do something aviation related.

Lew747 I failed on my eyesight, right eye is 6/9 but left is 6/32 and even if im considered monocular I cant pass as my uncorrected vision is so bad. Really sad because i'd done 5 hours of my PPL allready and now feel that there's not much more point in continuing if I can never fly solo or pass the exams. :ugh:

[Lew747]

Sorry to hear about that speaker :( It's such a shame that if fail a medical you can do no more. What about flying in the states? I hear their aviation medicals are far less stringent than over here in CAA-Land. Unless, your eyesight is that severe? (Sorry I don't know much about eyesight and exactly what 20/20 means etc).


And in regards to this thread, I would also find it interesting to hear if anyone can become commercial airliner simulator instructors too without any real flying experience.

Lewis :ok:

[mad_jock]

Could i ask what actually does a flight dispatcher do

It depends which system your under.

FAA they seem to do/ have more say about the flight than the ones in the UK.
They seem to have more of an input into the flight planning etc.

In the UK they organise and make sure all the bits of paper are exchanged before departure. And generally sort out all the different ground services that the crew request, it really is company dependent. They have no input into the flight planning. You get some very switched on helpful dispatchers which make the turn round effortless. And you have others which we are pretty certain are employed under the mental health help in the community scheme although this could just be the result of working for Service Air for more than 2 months.

[Pugilistic Animus]

an FAA dispatcher is responsible for weight and balance and creating a safe legal flight plan that will meets air carrier restricitions using operational control philosophy

you are required to have the ATP body of knowledge and have an approved course of study--that includes the topic listed in FAR part 67??? I will provide a link ----it is also advisory to check out the practical test standards for ATP/Flight dispatcher

I hope you still fly ---you don't need a medical to fly, just to fly solo---and perhaps you could;););) indeed check out the FAA license---because such cases here are not always absolute

and perhaps [since you said Class 2] you could get a Class 3 so that you can still enjoy the lovely air up there:)

good luck ---with your flying---

PA

[Pugilistic Animus]

Oh yeah if you decide on the ground school instructor option don't forget to


Wash most of 'em out in ground school:E

Ya gotta Break 'em up --- Break 'em up!!!!:}


Papa Alpha:E

[CB-LOVER]

6/6 OR 20/20 vision means that the person tested can see at 6 metres what a normal person can see at 6 metres. 20/20 is the old number used and i think it signifies feet instead of meters.

thank you!

P.S: my friend i do feel sorry about your situation but as you are passionate about this field (AVIATION) do not stop now... chase your dream. PM me anytime and i can give you some info.

[Leezyjet]

Just because you failed your Class 2 doesn't mean that you can't fly; depending on why you failed it, you might still be able to pass the NPPL Medical - which is less stringent.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to check out the guy's location first before offering him hope of other alternatives for him to fly. In New Zealand, the NPPL is the National Pub Poker League and I'm not sure one needs a medical to partake in that.:rolleyes:

There are numerous training jobs in aviation that can be done without wings, it just depends on what you want to do and in what area. I'd contact some of the training providers in your part of the world and go along for a chat to see what your options are.

:)

[speaker]

Thanks for all the replies folks :) Yeah i've thought about the states also, seems to be a whole bigger world of GA and commercial aviation there that could hold some career options. Not sure what my visa situation would be, im an Irish citizen in NZ on a working holiday but would like to stay in NZ longterm.

IT is just boring me a lot, its the same stuff day in and out with different people. Im going to speak to some people down at the aero club and see does anyone have any suggestions also for non flying aviaton career options. Dispatcher doesnt sound overly interesting to me, i'll just have to see what other options there are.

Simulation work would be right up my street if I could combine IT with aviation. Maybe i should start selling custom built PCs to run flight sim software or something. But work in a certified full motion sim would be great, no idea how to get into that are though. Maybe i'll try contact some manufaturers or AIRNZs training dept.

[ariel]

Speaker

Depending on how you interpret a paragraph in the initial class 2 requirements for the UK, you may be able to get a class 2. Below is said paragraph:

If you have substandard vision in one eye due to amblyopia (a ‘lazy’ eye), you can gain a Class 2 certificate if the visual acuity in the ‘bad’ eye is no worse than 6/18 and the visual acuity in the ‘good’ eye is 6/6 or better, which can be with correction. If you do not meet these requirements you should be aware that the National Private Pilots Licence does allow pilots with monocular vision to fly light fixed wing aircraft.

What I'm unsure of is if they accept refraction for the good eye, the bad eye, or both. If it's both, there's no reason why you can't get a class 2. (In UK anyway). If not, you meet the requirements for the UK NPPL.

Worth a mention...


nb just realised you're from NZ, BUT maybe the above about class 2 will apply there.

edited to say. I'm pretty certain that as long as the 'bad' eye CAN be corrected up, you can get the medical.

[Adios]

With the IT background, perhaps Sim Engineer would be within your reach. Some companies offer apprenticeships for it.

[MartinCh]

I feel for you.

I lost couple years I could have used towards flight training for pro career.
All because of thinking I wasn't going to be a pro due to my eyesight.
Turned out to be very minor thing that does not deteriorate (much) with age.

No idea how it works in NZ regarding medicals and vision requirements.
Others already suggested ways 'around' it, although different countries.

I'm short of experience to say something about sim, ground isntructing etc.

I love flying in any form. I also see past 'powered' aircraft (I'm going to be pro heli pilot and will do FW as well)
You can always be involved in aviation in non-flying position and fly recreationally in your spare time.

What about microlight flying, paragliding, gliding? All interesting airsports.
I did paragliding in the past, recently started gliding. Going to start/continue FW/RW training. I'd still fly even if commercial job not an option.

Have a look at medical requirements for gliding in New Zealand.
Once again, not sure about NZ, but nowadays you have self-launched motorgliders and touring motorgliders (SLMG and TMG) and at least in the UK at present, these fall into gliding or NPPL flying.

Best of both worlds with less stringent medical criteria (very likely).

Btw, if you decided to emigrate to the US (thanks to IT experience you should be able to sort immigrant work visa) and had an eye surgery, you should be able to get past the hurdles more easily. I don't want to swear on it, but their vision requirements aren't so tough as JAA system (especially pre/post eye surgery) and funnily, there's a clause in CFR (FARs) mentioning the fact that person does not need FAA Class I or II for instructing in light aircraft and (if I remember correctly, it's been a while since I read it) if you're instructing post-PPL student who's PIC in some (non-IFR I think) further training, it's even easier.

Problem probably is to get to stage of having all the certificates/ratings. I guess it's there for persons who somehow lose commercial medical but are still capable of instructing. So may not work for you.

EASA guys want to tighten medical rules for gliding instructors (compared to what we have now in the UK), but you may actually be able to instruct in gliders in NZ. Have a look at this. True, most places would be for spare time weekend instructing and you could have a job connected to aviation during week.

Some don't see forrest because of trees.

If you love flying, there's no reason to stop flying completely. If you enjoy lessons, why stopping? As long as you're aware of your situation and don't overspend. Once you're good at it (and still prevented from flying solo legally), you may buddy up with a PPL holder for some leisure flying where he's PIC and you could have a go inflight. Dunno. Be creative.

Pilots frequenting D&G subforum may help if you are going to settle in NZ.

[hef]

Sorry if this has been mentioned, but...

I'm sure you've thought about it, but what about laser eye surgery?

I understand there is a period of time (I wouldn't a a clue how long it is though) after you have the surgery that you can't fly though.

A friend I've mine recently wanted to join the police force here in NZ, but he failed the eye part of the medical (one eye was a bit off). He had laser eye surgery, waited 6 months and took the medical again. He passed and he is now in police college.

Also, if you want to apply for citizenship I would start now, it's a VERY long and difficult process these days.

[MartinCh]

Also, if you want to apply for citizenship I would start now, it's a VERY long and difficult process these days.

NZ legislation changed in 2006. It takes 5 years of residency and little time away (unlike UK system) per year to be eligible for citizenship. Since you're skilled, it should not be a problem once you have a job that would offer you permanent employment.
Then you should be able to score residence permit and not just work permit. Time on work permit doesn't count towards citizenship anymore.
Working holiday's good start as it's much easier to sort job offers and paperwork onshore - very true in the case of NZ immigration.

hef,
Can't speak for NZ, but JAA rules as of now require a person to be within certain limits PRE-op. Also the huge difference between eyes is an issue, not just dioptries. So being blind and seeing just fine after surgery may not make you eligible for medical just like that.
I don't think police force or other 'casual' job would have the same standards.

Enough blah blah, it's all down to NZ and their CAA medical standards.

[speaker]

Thanks for all the replies folks. I think i'm going to keep on doing the course and just try buddy up with other PPLs and just enjoy it. I should be happy I can see and am healthy and can get to fly in some form. :)

[172driver]

Just stumbled upon this thread.... first of all, speaker, it's great to see you're not giving up. Flying can be very satisfying, even if you're not in the P1 seat. I sometimes take a friend of mine up. He's been a very accomplished PPL (more hours then I have), but lost his medical. Now I fly P1 and he flies the a/c. I'm sure there are many similar situations out there.

On a very different note: IT and aviation should actually be a perfect combination. You're probably aware of the way modern a/c are built, i.e. basically created and test flown in a computer long before the first parts are machined. I've seen some of the more advanced stuff in this field and it is simply stunning. There should be ample career opportunities there, albeit perhaps not in NZ.....

[speaker]

Yeah there must be some way in. I don't have to stay in NZ but private flying is pretty cheap and accessable here compared to other parts of the world, there just doesnt seem to be much work in aviation.

Im sure I can keep flying and enjoy it, I managed to win a recent comp held at my aero club for non-instrument precision circuits which was flying circuits at the correct height and speed with a tea towel held over the instruments :) I must be a good pilot if i've beaten others at that game :)

I'd still love to hear from somebody in the sim training or sim design area, i've been reading about Flightsafety and CAE, makers of full motiion sims but would lve to hear from someone that works in the industry.

[chephy]

Is eye surgery an option? Is it permissible? I've been thinking about it myself. Even though I do meet the visual acuity requirements for all classes of civil aviation licences in Canada, I'd still not mind not having to wear glasses.

If you really want to pursue your dream, you might also consider immigration. There likely are countries that accept immigrants and that would allow you to meet the requirement. I know, it sounds very extreme, but as an immigrant myself I can assure you that it's possible and not even a totally crazy move.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Hmm, IT competencies, plus a flying passion. Thoughts:


- Simulator development

- Flight test engineering

- Avionics development and testing

The last two, particularly combined (avionics flight testing is a big activity these days, needing some very competent engineers who also fly)

For all of these you mostly need an appropriate degree these days. However, if you've already got some form of technical or scientific first degree, then an MSc in something like avionic systems, aerospace engineering, etc. might be the way ahead.


However, as others have said - chase the medical options; to quote the late Randy Pausch, "brick walls are put in your way to see if you want something enough".

G

N.B. PMs me your EMail address would you - I might know of the perfect medical non-dependent flying job for an aviation obsessed IT specialist, which opens up in about a month and can make sure you get details.

[speaker]

Surgery is out as my problem cant be fixed by a laser as its to do with the shape of my eyeball itself afaik. I've just heard back from the doctor who said he's 99% sure i'll fail but he's put it into the CAA just in case theres a chance they'd let it go through under flexability with some kind of endorsment.

I've just heard about the RPL but wont be able to make that as you still need a class 2 origonally.

I dont have a degree but would consider going to college if required, i've read up on some avation management courses that look interesting.

Genghis could you PM me some info if possible? I'm in NZ by the way im presuming that job would be UK based? Thanks though :)

[smith]

Are you really sure you want to do this at this time?

I find it difficult to understand that you would up sticks and relocate to the USA for a dispatchers job! Am I missing something here? Especially in these economic times of uncertainty if your IT work is pretty stable, IFWY I'd buckle down and get stuck into it, you ain't gonna make that kinda money as a dispatcher. After a few years of you being stuck down there and them being up there, I don't think you could take it anymore, the green eyed monster would rear its ugly head.

Sorry for being so negative but your love of aviation ain't ever gonna pay your mortgage. The best thing I can see is keep your IT work and work part time at your local flying club, even try and teach some ppl ground school or something like that. Moving to the states for a dispatchers job would be madness IMHO.