Flight Training ....where?

[abirpatel]

hey fellow bloggers,
my name is abir patel from india.

i wish to persue my ppl-cpl-ir in one of the usa,canada, new zealand or the uk and have been convinced by what both air d(usa),wings academy (NEW ZEALAND) have to offer
just that i need an expert advice as to which country and school to pick to pick and the criteria are

1) cost efficiancy
2) sufficient airport exposure
3) hours (since with the ongoing job slump as of now, only the ones with the hours i.e the experianced are entertained)
4) reputation of the school
5) recognation of the school, also an edge when it comes to employment
6) Good past record when it comes to teaching, accidents etc
7) facilities( obviously)

id be obliged if someone could enlighten me in this regard

REGARDS,
A M P

[Whirlygig]

I think the most important thing is to get the licence of the countries in which you are netitled to work. There is no point getting a New Zealand licence if you have no right to work there or if that licence is not valid in your country.

You will also need to consider any licence conversion costs!

Cheers

Whirls

[abirpatel]

hey,
obviously id go to a country recognised my ICAO for my training. about work, a foreign national has to acquire a work permit to work in any country, and under current circumstances i dnt think any country would have openings for freshers !

[Whirlygig]

Yes, that's right. So, assuming you're an Indian national you would be better off getting the licence which is recognised in India or, if you go and get another country's licence, you need to consider the cost of licence conversion.

Aviation licences are not internationally recognised. I have a JAA licence; I cannot fly commercially in the USA or Australia without converting my licence to FAA or CASA (and getting a work permit!). Not all ICAO licences are valid in each ICAO country.

Cheers

Whirls

[abirpatel]

i just need sum1 to tel me which country to go, which school and why.
im assuming a lot of people have truckloads of info here,,,
or im hoping atleast

[Adios]

Nobody in the Europe, where most Pprune members are, is going to be able to tell you which school to go to because you need to obtain DGCA ratings. You can't work outside India, so don't get ratings that aren't good there.

That said, I did a bit of research on JAA to DGCA conversion recently and the conversion is fairly simple, but it will cost you a bit. Going from memory, a JAA Integrated course would leave you about 30 hours short, while a JAA modular course would give you the minimum 250 hours needed for DGCA conversion. You would need to do a couple of extra cross country flights, as DGCA requires three of them, two of which are longer than required by JAA. You would have to get an Indian Medical, Radio license and take several DGCA Theoretical exams.

I would not recommend a JAA modular course because Indian airlines won't care at all whether you did a JAA modular or integrated course, so do the less expensive modular route if you decide to train in Europe.

Indian airlines can and do hire First Officers with just a CPL and no Instrument Rating, but having a JAA IR would probably make you more attractive to an Indian airline.

The least expensive route would probably be to take FAA ratings in the US then convert them to DGCA, but I have not researched what this would require, nor can I recommend a US school.

Some reputable modular schools in the UK are Atlantic Flight Training, Cabair, PTC in Bournemouth, Oxford Aviation Academy, Bristol and Exeter. There are dozens to choose from and other members may add to this list, as it is not exhaustive by any means and I have probably left off some good schools.

[Bealzebub]

This "ICAO licence" is almost completely meaningless in any event. All but a handfull of very small, mainly caribbean nations are ICAO member states. In any event ICAO does not issue pilots licences. There is no compelling evidence to suggest that those few small islands that are non ICAO signatories issue pilots licences either.

As has already been pointed out, there is no automatic interchange between licences issued in one state for that of another. Any acceptance or conversion requirements depend on the requirements of the state to whom the application is eventually made. Obviously countries and supranational authorities with a large aviation infrastructure including flight training will provide the majority of licences issued. At this time that is probably the FAA in the USA and its territories as well as the European JAA member states. However countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Canada, South Africa will also contribute a significant number. To perhaps a lesser but increasing degree, other signatory nation states are also developing training institutions based on either their own, or foreign licensing requirements and standards.

An extract from the ICAO website:
ICAO does not issue any licences. Licences issued by ICAO Contracting States on the basis of Standards and Recommended Practices of Annex 1 – Personnel Licensing, are habitually called ICAO licences. This has led many to believe that there is a specific ICAO or international licence. The fact is that there is not one single international licence issued by ICAO or any other organization. States issue their own licences based on national regulations in conformity with Annex 1 specifications and validate licences issued by other Contracting States on the basis of bilateral or multilateral agreements or the fulfilment of nationally legislated requirements.

Any pilot who wishes to fly on an aircraft registered in a State other than the one that has issued the licence, needs to obtain an authorization from the State of Registry. This authorization is generally given by the State of Registry through a validation or a conversion of the foreign licence. In general, the validation process is used for short-term authorization while the conversion process is used for longer-term authorization.

Validation of a foreign licence

When a State validates a foreign licence, it recognizes it as valid for use on aircraft on its own registry. The Convention on International Civil Aviation and its Annex 1 do not contain specific requirements for the validation of licences beyond establishing the principle and the fact that the validity of a validation, cannot be extended beyond the validity of the supporting licence. As a result, conditions under which validation is granted vary from State to State. It depends on the level of privileges required and on the origin of the licence. It is generally easy to obtain a validation for VFR private flights, but more stringent rules may exist for professional licences. The applicant may be required to get additional training and/or to take new exams.

Conversion of a foreign licence

As an alternative to validate a foreign licence, a State may issue a licence that is based on the foreign licence held by the applicant. In doing so, the Licensing Authority accepts the fact that holding a foreign licence is an acceptable way to demonstrate compliance with its own national licensing regulation. The conditions for the conversion are generally similar to that of a validation.

[sarfarosh]

3) hours (since with the ongoing job slump as of now, only the ones with the hours i.e the experianced are entertained)




Canada would be good since they have shortage of Instructors these days and they issue work permit easily for students who did their entire training in Canada.
And once you are in canada it's not that hard to get visa for USA to get your type rating for beggie....
So get some single engine experience(forget about Multi) as an Instructor,get type rating in US and head back with tones of hopes!!! And yes the conversion is still there.... :ok:

[mrwilko]

Hi
I can recommend PFT at Bournemouth in UK.
They do modular training and as well as the info you may see on their website they have just started to do ppl also. They satisfy all the criteria you described including having a base in an airline environment amongst full motion simulators you can have access to if you wish

[zztopgunzz]

check strikewing.com, its a site in under construction. but I think you might be interested

[Halfwayback]

Having looked at the site I would advocate caution. It is a slick site but I am not sure that you would want a Philippines CPL with all the conversion problems of making it either a JAA or FAA licence. (It is noteworthy that the person promoting the site only joined Pprune today!)

My advice would be to go with the mainstream licences. Given the current financial times it is going to be a buyers market over the next couple of years.

HWB