Which book?

[whyisitsohard]

Guys, I'm an ATPL f/w about to embark upon a PPL(H). Which text book...Pooleys or Wagtendonk? Or neither? Or both?

Anyone got one they are getting shot of?

David

[GS-Alpha]

I don't know about Pooleys, but I too am an ATPL(A) doing my PPL(H). I bought Wagtendonk, and read it cover to cover once. The weather was bad one day a month later, so I thought what the hell, I'll try the exams. I passed them both, so the book must have been adequate.

The only thing I will say about the book is that the author clearly does not know what the coriolis effect is. He seems to think it is another name for the conservation of angular momentum.

[EN48]

Depends on what you want it for. To pass an exam or to fly a helicopter with insight and skill? Dont know about Pooley's, but I'd rate Wagtendonk high on the theory side, and Coyle (Cyclic and Collective) high on the applied side. There are many others which I have found useful as well. A recent thread solicited recommendations on books on helicopter aerodynamics - you might search for this for a number of useful books. In the event of a fire in which I could save just one of my helicopter books, it would be Coyle. I recently made the transition from plank to helo, and Coyle's book took some of the mystery out of it. Highly experienced helo pilots might consider Cyclic & Collective too elementary, but as someone relatively new to helicopters, I found it a goldmine of practical info that might have taken many years to discover from first hand experience.

That being said, you wpould probably do well to own a shelf of helo books, as no single one does it all well.

[Bravo73]

Don't bother with the Pooley's - it's riddled with mistakes. :=

[alouette3]

One word of caution though. Depends on which side of the Atlantic you are taking the test. There are quite a few differences in terminology (eg:Tail Rotor Drift vs Transalating Tendency; Ng,Nf vs N1 and N2 etc). That might be a little confusing to the beginner. But if you grasp the concept and have an instructor explain the similarities--- piece of cake.
I would recommend Shawn Coyle's book too. I use it as a refresher a lot and it is very easy reading.
I have tried Ray Prouty too :eek:. NOT recommended for the beginners or the faint of heart and short attention span.
Alt3

[Pandalet]

If you want something that specifically covers the (UK) PPL(H) syllabus, check out Phil Croucher's PPL(H) book - I forget exactly what it's called, but I believe Transair stock it. Or you could PM him directly and ask (he posts here as Paco).

If you struggle with Wagtendonk a bit, try Principles of Helicopter Flight by Jean-Pierre Harrison. It's a bit hard to find, as I believe it's out of print, but it's far more readable than Wagtendonk, and covers some stuff that he doesn't.

[chester2005]

For the UK i found Wagtendonk quite sufficient for the PPL(H)
For the ATPL(H) P of F(H)exam Shawn Coyle's Cyclic and Collective together with Wagtendonk were quite sufficient for me to get 93%.

I would recommend them both , I personally don't think a great deal of the Pooleys book.

Chester:ok:

[whyisitsohard]

Thanks guys. Indeed, paco has PMd me.

As for Blondes and Brunettes, well, I once met these sisters downroute ...:mad:


david

edited ps...

The paco book seems to cover everything, i.e. too much. I dont really want to pay to read HPF, Nav, Met etc. My light aero stuff is up to snuff as an instructor. I really want the dynamics. I have looked for the cyclic and collective and it's not available on Amazon, surprisingly. It is available from the states but that seems a long way to send a book. I'll keep scouring the UK shores for a copy. Thanks again.

[KNIEVEL77]

whyisitsohard,

I've got the Pooley's book.......it's a bit difficult to read for a trainee.

As for the other 2 books, you can get them both from www.flightstore.co.uk......Cyclic and Collective by Shaun Coyle for £24.95 and Principles of Helicopter Flight by W.J. Wagtendonk for £11.99.

After reading the posts on this thread I may have to invest in both of them too!

[VeeAny]

I think Pacos book is worth having just for the bits that you don't know about, yes it has some stuff that some of us aren't interested in but the PofF stuff is good, I can't remember if there is any peformance stuff in his PPL one but that is woth having the Professional book for as a reference.

Shawns book is excellent, but a bit too much for the newbie student. I read it when learning and didn't understand half of it, now I find it an invaluable reference when teaching or revising.

You are bound to find some bits that you don't understand or disagree with, the good thing is that you can always email these guys and I'd bet that if its wrong it gets changed in the next edition. The same cannot be said for some of the older texts produce by some national authorities which are quoted as Gospel and still wrong.

[ShyTorque]

Shawns book is excellent, but a bit too much for the newbie student. I read it when learning and didn't understand half of it, now I find it an invaluable reference when teaching or revising.


But you will have the advantage of the author as a regular contributor here on this website, under his own name.

[parabellum]

This one by John Fay is pretty good too:

AbeBooks: Search Results - the helicopter and how it flies (http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?bt.x=57&bt.y=12&sortby=3&sts=t&tn=the+helicopter+and+how+it+flies)

[Shawn Coyle]

VeeAny:
I'd appreciate knowing which bits of the book you found difficult - always looking for improvements.
Any others who have suggestions also welcome to pm me.

[ppng]

How deep do you want?

"Rotary-Wing Aerodynamics" by Stepnieweski & Keys

ISBN 0-486-64647-5

[paco]

if you can find a copy, as it's been out of print for years, Jean-Pierre Harrison's Principles of Helicopter Flight is about the best basic one I have read. PM me for an alternative source for Shawn's book.

Phil

[SASless]

Shy,

Don't feel bad....I have heard Shawn did not understand half of it when he was writing it!:oh:

[ShyTorque]

SASless, I don't feel bad - I haven't read it, I was quoting someone else :p

[KNIEVEL77]

Shame that Jean-Pierre Harrison book is out of print! If anyone know where I can get a copy i'd be grateful of the info please!

[SASless]

Whatever happened to the "Blue Book" that Sikorsky put out.....kinda thin....not more than about a hundred pages....and written so even US Marines could understand it. I found it to be a very good explanation for concepts we all need to understand.

Perhaps Nick has one stashed away with the cover cut off it as it might be considered enemy propaganda by his new Bosses.

[birrddog]

The FAA Rotorcraft Flying Handbook (http://www.amazon.com/Rotorcraft-Flying-Handbook-FAA-Handbooks/dp/1560274042) is worthwhile too, regardless which continent you learn to fly in.

[Pandalet]

The Jean-Pierre Harrison book isn't that hard to find - last time I was shopping for books, I found 5 or 6 copies at sensible prices. Just do some digging on t'intertubes - try the usual suspects (Amazon, fleabay, Abebooks, etc). Harrison is an excellent read!

[Paul Cantrell]

Not only do I agree with birddog that Rotorcraft Flying Handbook is a good resource, it's free online on the FAA's web site:

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/media/faa-h-8083-21.pdf

[KNIEVEL77]

I've spent ages searching the net for it and can't find it in the UK or abroad......one day one will pop up on Ebay i'm sure!

In the meantime can anyone recommend any other 'must have' books for a student currently training for their PPL(H)?

Here are some the books I currently own:

Pooley's Helicopter Manual (Principles of Flight) H R Quantick
Official Robinson R22 Pilot's Handbook
Official Robinson Flight Training Guide
Robinson R22 Information Manual
Robinson R22 A Pilot's Guide John Swan
The Helicopter Pilot's Manual Volumes 1 and 2 Norman Bailey
Helicopter Flight Training Manual Transport Canada
Rotary Wing Flight Nicholas Ean
The Private Helicopters Guide Steven Sparrow
The Helicopter Pilot's Companion Helen Krasner
Flying the Robinson R22 David Dixon DVD
Official Robinson R22/44 Safety Awareness DVD

[VeeAny]

Shawn

If I can remeber I'll gladly PM you.

Just to be clear my comment is not a criticism, I think that your book is just pitched at a level I hadn't achieved when I first read it. I think if you tried to make it into 'Then Janet and John' Book of helicopters it would ruin it.

If it aint broke don't fix it,.

Cheers

GS

[EN48]

Not exactly a book, but a "must read" IMHO: the NTSB, CAA, etc accident reports, at least for the make/model you are flying, and similar (such as all light helicopters) if you can stand it. A humbling and instructive use of time. Also the FAA Special Report on the R22/R44 published mid 90's.

[KNIEVEL77]

EN48,

I bought the R22 Safety Awareness DVD direct from Robinson and it has been suggested to me that I shouldn't watch it until i'm well through my training as it might put me off flying altogether! :eek:

K77.

[Shawn Coyle]

At the risk of starting another war, and obviously I have an interest in this, but the FAA Rotorcraft Handbook has a lot of errors and a very poor buildup of information. It's currently in re-write, from what I understand.

[206Fan]

I bought the R22 Safety Awareness DVD direct from Robinson and it has been suggested to me that I shouldn't watch it until i'm well through my training as it might put me off flying altogether!

Yea id agree there aswel, i walked out of the room after seeing the bit of the R22 coming down in the UK somewere due to carb ice.. Thou it does open your eyes!

How much is that DVD K77?

[KNIEVEL77]

Davy,

It's $30 plus shipping direct from Robinson although i'm sure Transair or Flightstore will sell them......or no doubt you could get a 'copy' from Fleabay!

[R44-pilot]

There's always kind enough people out there who will give you a copy of Robinson safety DVD cheap :ok:

[EN48]

it has been suggested to me that I shouldn't watch it until i'm well through my training


This is the ostrich method of training. What you dont know can still hurt you.

Not sure from your post if you are familiar with the NTSB accident database. This lists every US R22 and R44 accident (more thna 400 IIRC), with supporting details, and in most cases, a probable cause. Far more useful, IMO, than the Robinson video (which is still definitely worth watching more than once). Google NTSB aviation database for a link.

At the risk of restarting a war, the R22 is perhaps the MOST demanding light civilian helo in the fleet. It is in your best interest to find out as much as possible about this acft (assuming you are training in it.) The R44 is less demanding, but shares certain characteristics.

[whyisitsohard]

I've ended up with cyclic and collective, at least for starters.

Haven't started it yet as been out flying my flexwing microlight the weather is so nice.

Thanks for the input

david

[KNIEVEL77]

I've just started to read the Wagtendonk book.......is it me or have other 'trainees' found the book hard going? :{

Can anyone suggest a more easier read for students? :O

[206Fan]

is it me or have other 'trainees' found the book hard goin

Yea i found it a bit hard aswel when i first opened it but i battered on through it and understood it more as i read on, excellent book thou, keep at it!

[KNIEVEL77]

Cheers Davy!

I still can't find that Jean-Pierre Harrison book ANYWHERE!

[HillerBee]

In the US the Robinson R22 Awareness DVD has to be watched before you start flying the thing.

I don't see the need for a PPL(H) student to read every book on the market.

Cyclic and Collective is my preferred one (although a bit advanced for the beginner at some points)

[paco]

I keep asking Jean-Pierre to republish his book but he is too busy. If I find any I will stock them and let you guys know of the availability.

phil

[DennisK]

I see Capt Phil isn't going to push his own superb PPL manual, so I'll do it! I'd have to say having read the initial copy while in draft ... I rate it as highly as Shawn Coyle's excellent item and ditto the infamous AP 129 of my RAF days. Buying both has to be a good idea.

Just a side note from one of the COFs in this business. Who remembers the Royal Air Force's way of promoting AP 129? As a randy youngster, I well recall the busty bombshell Diana Dors holding the AP 123 manual to her ample bosom. Underneath was the caption. "AP129 covers everything!"

Ah ... golden days.

Happy new year to everyone.

Dennis K

[nerf97]

Hello folks, just wondering if anyone could give advice on a book I can read on heli flying. I been reading the one with Wagtendonk and sure it is good stuff. Principles of Helicopter Flying is really good one. I need to know other book(s) so I could buy it without having to go through the whole library. Thanks guys.

[Impress to inflate]

For My ATPL(H) I found chicken Hawk helped the most !! And that was a good few years ago now.

[HOGE]

See if you can find an old copy of this book.

Keeps it fairly simple.

Amazon.com: Basic Helicopter Handbook (Faa Reprints Series): United States. Federal Aviation Administration: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Helicopter-Handbook-Faa-Reprints/dp/1560270047)

[newhelikid]

Hi,

I have just started my PPL H (done 6 hours so far) and I want to get a good book.
Now, the stuff in the transair shop etc does not interest me. I am looking for an old school classic so to speak!

I am a fixed wing pilot and I had the same problem when I was doing the fixed wing training a number of years ago. I found, the older the book, the better it was!!

An old pal gave me a copy of "Stick and Rudder by Wolfgang Langewieschie" which is ancient but I have NEVER come across a book like it today. I learned so much from it when I did my PPL A years ago. Trevor Thom is like reading the Bible compared to it (who has the time to digest that!!!!)

Is there a PPL H version?
What did you guys read in the 60's/70's for your basic rotary training?

Thanks.

Call me old fashioned but I think our pilot training books where better back in the old days!

[MonikaS]

Hi,

I've just started my PPL and was thinking to get some books. Does anyone has used Pooley's books that don't need anymore and want to sell them?

Also after passing your license does anyone still use books from time to time?

Thanks

[paco]

I could mention that a certain PPL(H) book is tablet friendly and has all the material required for the new questions in it - and before anyone mentions that they don't want to read too much information, I suggest they take a look at the syllabus :)

Phil

[Hot and Hi]

Also after passing your license does anyone still use books from time to time?Yes, I do, really often.

For PPL studies I would recommend Wagtendonk; once you have some experience, or for CPL ground school add Coyle "The Art ... of Flying Helicopters". At that level Coyle's Cyclic & Collective might still be overwhelming, but later that's the ultimate book.

[Thracian]

I'd recommend (before or after license doesn't matter)

- Shawn Coyle's "Cyclic&Collective" and "Little book of autorotations"
- Greg Whyte's "Fatal traps for helicopter pilots"
For some more aerodynamical insights:
- Ray Prouty's "Helicopter Aerodynamics" (a 2 volume collection of his articles)

By the way, the FAA "Rotorcraft Flying Handbook" is freely available at https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aircraft/ as a pdf.
Keep in mind, that the new version is called "Helicopter Flying Handbook" which is also available at https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/helicopter_flying_handbook/ as seperate pdfs per chapter or as one big pdf.
On these pages you'll also find many more interesting stuff (not only, but partly also rotorcraft related).

Have fun

Thracian