RAF Flight Ops Officers and Colour Vision

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

I have found a document on the web which states that Flight Operations Officers in the RAF would require CP2 standards of Colour Perception to perform the role.
This document is dated Summer 2007, and I wondered if anyone can categorically confirm if this is still accurate.

I couldn't get the info from the RAF at an AFCO, and have tried searching on this board but without success.

Thanks in advance.

[Grabbers]

Strange, I didn't think there was any qualifying criteria to be a Flight Ops Officer. Other than the prerequisite failing of all aptitude based courses of course. :E

[Molesworth Hold]

That's a terrible comment on a fine body of people. With the recruitment problems that TG9, has it has become increasingly apparent that a Flight Ops Officer, with the correct training is able to operate at the level of a junior SAC. Regarding the colour blindness, I suppose it is possible that a Flight Ops Officer may be required to drive on an airfield, in this situation they would be required to differentiate between the turquoise traffic light and the turquoise traffic light.

[lazyrs1]

Ring the AFCO again - they are fobbing you off. If they dont know they should ring OASC medical and find out!

[Pontius Navigator]

Molesworth, not at all. It is to be able to distinguish between white and black coffee.

[taxydual]

Hmm, cheeky kids!!!

I'll have you know, in my day, a seviceable pulse was all that was required.

Ex OpsO sends

:ok:

This link (you may have seen it) gives you some gen re Colour Blindness plus a phone number to ring.

Good Luck.

Health - Who we want - RAF Careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/istherafforme/health.cfm)

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

Thanks so far.

Basically, the job I'm interested in is Flight Ops as I know my colour blindness will preclude me from flying.
The AFCO told me to get an eyetest done with the Isihara and Homes-Wright lantern tests independently. The results are then sent to Cranwell and they would tell me whether I am up to Flight Ops eyesight standards. The AFCO told me that they can't do any more until I get my results back, and they couldn't find anything or anyone to advise on the specific eyesight requirements during my appointment with them.

I found a document online yesterday which had Flight Ops down as requiring CP2 colour standards, which I'm very sure I can't attain. At the moment, I'm trying to find out the standards required as it may save myself and the RAF the cost and hassle of eyetests and the Cranwell results.

[taxydual]

AWR

AFAIR, CP2 is normal Red/Green perception.What are you like at traffic lights?
Can you tell Stop from Go?

This thread (on our pongo colleagues site) will probably muddy the waters further, but......

Army Rumour Service > > Forums > > Boards by Arm / Service (roughly) > > Just TA > > Addition to TA Medical (http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=108661.html)

And this

http://www.assoc-optometrists.org/uploaded_files/pdf/06-raf.pdf

[Pontius Navigator]

I'm trying to find out the standards required as it may save myself and the RAF the cost and hassle of eyetests and the Cranwell results.

Joking aside, self-diagnosis is a complete waste of time.

They are experts, thye are paid to make decisions. Let them decide.

[spheroid]

I wish we had a Flight Operations branch in the FAA....its a real pain doing it all yourself....and whilst Im drippin....how about some survival equipment people to look after our Flying clothing....that would be a bloomin novelty.

[Grabbers]

Spheroid

I'm sure you're surrounded by people perfectly qualified to do the Flight Ops Officer role. How would your bins get emptied?

[Irish Tempest]

I do find it a lil bit strange that the RN and and the RAF have the following variance in eyesight standards:


All are stated min standards

RAF (Pilot)
Uncorrected 6/6
Corrected N/A (as 6/6 is as good as it gets)

RN (Pilot)
Uncorrected 6/12
Corrected 6/6

As (i understand it) all RN aircrew 'we' employ are taken on with the ultimate aim of getting them into single seat F/J ie GR7/9 and later JSF... (if they haven't collected their pension by then!!)

The RAF (i assume) does the same with a view to getting someone into a F/J.

Bottom line - if you eyesight is not up to the the RAF standard but can be corrected to 6/6 then you potentially good enough for the RN!

Making ready for the flood of Joe 90's tomorrow.....:ok:

IT

[spheroid]

The Duty Officer empties the bins..... after he has cleaned the crewroom.... Is that what Ops people do...? What do they really do and if they are important then why can't we have any?

[Pontius Navigator]

I wish we had a Flight Operations branch in the FAA....its a real pain doing it all yourself....and whilst Im drippin....how about some survival equipment people to look after our Flying clothing....that would be a bloomin novelty.

Quite agree, we still don't know what it is like having it done for you. :}

Safety equippers OTOH are worth their weight in gold.

[teeteringhead]

It is to be able to distinguish between white and black coffee. .... that's a bit cruel Pontius ...


..... they need to know the difference between blue and green chinagraph too ;).....

[Pontius Navigator]

.... that's a bit cruel Pontius ...


..... they need to know the difference between blue and green chinagraph too ;).....

Unless it is night ops when they need to distinguish between white and yellow, hence the coffee requirement too.

[taxydual]

Hmm. It's easy to tell the pubs have turrned out early!!

Ex OpsO sends



Without us, who would work out the nutty ration?




:ok::ok:

[Grabbers]

Any 6 year old?

[Pontius Navigator]

Without us, who would work out the nutty ration?


The copilot or one of the knockers. In my 6 tours in Ops not once did we ever do nutty bars.

And the telephone rules were quite simple. Nearest to the telephone answered the phone, nearest to the kettle made the coffee. RHNP.

[minigundiplomat]

Ive watched a series of Ops Spt OPSO's pass through the Sqn and can honestly say, with the right training, some may make competent corporals in the future.

Some, would make excellent DSS statistics.

[Scarlett O'Hara]

Get a grip people - I thought Ops Officer bashing was ancient history.

There are some excellent Ops Officers out there who make a major contribution to the running of the RAF. Yes, the Branch suffered on creation primarily due to some crazy recruitment procedures i.e. you have to go ATC first and only if you fail can you go with your first Branch choice. And Desk Officers haven't helped when they post people with little, or no experience, into challenging roles.

Good luck AlphaWhiskyRomeo and hope your eye sight meets the required criteria. Don't let the negativity here put you off.

[Rigger1]

As for making tea / coffee , I thought that was the holding officers job.

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

Thanks for the related replies to my original post.

Although I've not yet taken the exact test that the RAF have asked me to, I've previously taken part in tests and research for university and CAA purposes. The results identified me as a dichromat - meaning I have moderate to severe colour blindness of the "Red-Green" variety.

Due to what's been mentioned above, I'm going to work on the fact that the CP2 standard still stands and I will have to consider another career.

[minigundiplomat]

Actually I think you will find that is the loadies job


I refer you to your previous post.......

[FrogPrince]

Flight Ops can't be that hard. The TA will be doing it soon...

:}

[plans123]

So no change to the calibre of Flt OpsO's then...... all wannabe's! :}

[taxydual]

Round objects

[unclenelli]

Anybody requiring driving on an airfield must be CP3 minimum (requires a "lantern test" at the Med Centre) or CP2 SAFE.

The reasons being, the traffic lights on the airfield are low level lights (red & green side-by-side), and the fact that ATC or Runway Caravan can transmit 1 light at you.
If you can't tell red/green/white apart, you would be a danger on the airfield as you could enter an active runway!!

Within the last 2 weeks, I have personally refused an airfield user permit F600A to a contractor who was as colour-blind as a bat (at his own admission and confirmed by an Ishihara Test (coloured numbers and dots and lines))

All TG9 are required to be CP2 SAFE and I believe all Flt Ops Branch should also be CP2 as they have a remit to be Incident Commander/SLOps/Wg Cdr Ops as part of their career progression.

[Grabbers]

AIDU

I think the point Uncle Nelli was making was that the inabillity to differentiate between red/green could have and has had serious consequences. Just because someone thank goodness saw fit to put you out to grass at AIDU and you have forgotten the implications of someone who misidentifies signals, don't diss the man breaking the link in the chain. Now, run along and steal someone elses oxygen, boy.

[Mahogany_Bomber]

I thought I might add my opinion on the related debate on the usefulness of OpsOs.

It's always amusing when the same tired old "all OpsOs are rubbish" comments are trotted out. Yes I know this is an internet rumour site and therefore uninformed comment and jumping on the bandwagon are are often integral to the discussion but the standard "my mate was once on a sqn which had a first tourist Plt Off OpsO straight out of Shawbury who was sh*t" really isn't much of a story is it?

The Flt Ops specialisation is like every other; some within it are good, some are bad and the remainder sit somewhere in the middle. It has suffered (and continues to do so to a lesser extent) as a consequence of a recruiting policy which on occasion looked like a request to send the RAF's sick, lame and lazy into the specialisation. The posting policy was equally questionable at times, replacing experienced GD personnel in keys posts with shiny first tourist DE OpsOs was always going to lead to failure on occasion - but whence lies the blame?

All the while OpsOs are cheaper to employ than Fg Branch personnel they will remain; equally, as long the specialisation lacks a staff structure, strategic plan and in particular robust post-graduate-training (and STANEVAL procedures) it will suffer from the inability to remove those who are failing to perform.

If your OpsO isn't up to scratch have you helped in their education and training or simply logged onto an internet forum and had a moan? If you see a knowledge or skills gap in an individual (and this doesn't just apply to your OpsOs) that you are able to address then take the time to do so, don't just walk away moaning about it. Yes you're busy and yes it's probably not directly in your TORs but as professionals don't we all have a duty to improve the knowledge and skills of those around us?

Enough of my soapbox, thoughts on the above?

MB

[minigundiplomat]

post-graduate-training


You mean homework?

[Mahogany_Bomber]

Homework, on the job training, distance learning, ground school (lite) or a combination of them all. Whatever is necessary in order to provide structured Phase 3 training. And lessons in not giving po-faced responses on PPRUNE!

[Pontius Navigator]

MB, I admit my initial experience was with the initial introduction. We had two Admin branch transferees and two ex-SNCO. One SNCO quickly made sqn ldr.

The Admin branch officers exhibited little keeness to learn the trade. A horsey, knitting circle was the prefered option rather than head in the books of which there were many.

One upbraided her 1st RO that he had not given her any jobs to get her teeth into. His response was that much work was available and she could have used her initiative and sought work herself.

The ex-SNCO re-wrote the crash-disaster plan from first principles as a self-generated work.

More recently I asked a question that had been common knowledge 10 years ago and wanted confirmation that the system was still in use. None of the Ops Os had every heard of it. The SOpsO, to give her her due, researched the question and found the answer. The procedure still exisited but it was no longer done on station. That is where breadth of experience comes in.

I agree with the Staneval type approach. Does the OpsO have the spatial awareness of nearby airfields? Nearby could be 2000 miles or more away for the ST and AT force. What is their met awareness? Can theyt anticipate conditions leading to early deterioration of visibility before the forecaster calls them? And so on.