View Full Version : "No one has EVER been made reduntant"
A spokesman for the MoD said: "No one has ever been made redundant in the armed forces. The retention figures are particularly strong at present." Qoute from various broadsheets today.
I am sure I can remember people getting what was known as a "Blue Letter" in the 70s. Am I wrong or are the MOD getting it wrong - again?
The Armed Forces Redundancy Schemes (http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/0E5372B7-0CC6-4CE6-A139-C6AA26B5196E/0/Redundancybookletjan07.pdf)
Hansard: Service Personnel: Fitness (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200506/ldhansrd/vo050704/text/50704w05.htm)
Lord Astor of Hever asked Her Majesty's Government:
How many personnel since April 2003 have been permanently medically downgraded below the standard for their arm or service; of such personnel, how many have been selected for redundancy; and of those that have been selected for redundancy, how many will be eligible for redundancy compensation. [HL719]
Lord Drayson: While the numbers of medically downgraded personnel are centrally held, it is not possible to ascertain whether an individual has been downgraded below the standard for their arm or service, as the data only records when an individual has been medically downgraded to a level below which they are deployable. Deployability is determined by either the physical efficiency standard for Army or the medical employment standard for Navy and RAF. Fitness for arm or service is determined by the PULHHEEMS code (a system of medical classification) and differs for each arm and service.
Of the three services, only the Army and the RAF are running redundancy programmes. In the Army, some 120 officers were selected for redundancy, all of whom, at the time of the redundancy board, met the appropriate medical standards. A second phase of redundancy is still to be made but no personnel have yet been selected for or invited to express an interest in redundancy. In the RAF, of the 855 personnel permanently medically downgraded since April 2003, still serving in the RAF and still medically downgraded, some 15 are due to leave on redundancy terms. All personnel selected for redundancy are entitled to the appropriate redundancy "compensation".
1st Dec 2008, 14:01
I can sense a "My office, hat" moment coming on :E
Prat of the first water for not checking obvious facts
1st Dec 2008, 14:29
This was Jul 2005, so what brought it up now?
A2QFI, your memory is quite right. Certain trades and ranks were allowed to volunteer but senior officers were also made redundant.
I well remember one such who had been promoted to sqn ldr long after he thought he had been passed over only to get a second blue letter less than 6 months later. A real b^ll-buster.
The terms of the 72-73 scheme were apparently very good. A problem arose, IIRC, that the monetary value was set at the then pay rate but the redundancy didn't take effect until 75-76 by which time the Thatcher pay rise had kicked and completely b^ll^cksed the original figures. There were lots of unhappy people around although some managed to withdraw their apps.
By 76 we were of course short of people :)
1st Dec 2008, 14:56
I left under the '72-'73 scheme. We could decide a date on which to leave up to March '74. I officially left in March '74 although I started my new job, under the guise of re-settlement, leave due etc. in the Jan. The terms seemed quite generous at the time but I do recall there being a rather good pay rise in April '74 although I was not bothered by it I recall some guys were.
Several members of the AAC are about to be made redundant!
1st Dec 2008, 15:29
It was a quote from the Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/3536738/Armed-forces-enjoy-recruitment-surge-thanks-to-the-credit-crunch.html)- apparantly the credit crunch / recession is having a positive impact on recruiting for the Armed Forces, mainly due to the job security (their words not mine!).
The particular quote is about half way down.
Thank you Wader2. I further recollect that, at the time, those selected appeared to be ones who were the biggest drain on the Budget ie officers with 3 children at boarding school were a better deal to get rid of than people who used the state ducations system.
Is that redundant due to aircraft out of servise and re-trained or out of a job redundant?
1st Dec 2008, 15:51
I have vague memories of Golden Bowlers being given to several of my father's colleagues around this time. Not sure if they were compulsory or voluntary, but they certainly were paid to leave before their time was up.
1st Dec 2008, 16:34
Another bunch of RAF aircrew were allowed voluntary redundancies in 1994. Not being old enough by just a couple of years I left at my 38 point instead. A same-ranked pilot colleague, who was slightly older than me, left under the redundancy scheme about the same time and walked away with a whole load of dosh.
1st Dec 2008, 18:21
Was one of the mid 70s' compulsory redundancies though luckily fell on my feet. They wondered why they were a bit short' of ME aircrew in 82'!
1st Dec 2008, 19:00
There were actually a few within the last decade or so. I'm thinking about the weird and wonderful trades (radiographer, kennel maid etc) but there were definitely a few redundancies. Of course, someone may argue that these chaps/chapessses were given the opportunity to re-muster. Yeah, right.
1st Dec 2008, 20:21
Some of those in 1994 were COMPULSORY redundancies and it was known as Black Tuesday. I think it was in the October? We had to wait around all day long whilst those who were getting the axe were called in one by one. I know of one Air Eng who was with me on Applied Flt at Finners who went under a great deal of protest! Ended up working as a prison officer at Doncatraz.
Granted Sir, a lot of them had volunteered and were happy to go. This was also the time they did away with the Sim trade (L Tech ST) in toto and Stats people. I knew a lot of ST's who were far from happy at going even if they were getting a full 18 months pay (tax free) and 16/22nds of a full pension.
Part of options for change, or was it the peace dividend?
No that's it I remember it was the Tories meanest of all defence cuts..
Front line first ha ha ha ha!! :ugh:
I applied for it in the 90s and when those letters were sent out, was in Bosnia. The Battle Group colonel called me in, cast his eyes over a signal and said 'I think I've got some good news for you.. you're not being made redundant by the RAF.'. 'Good news my arse' I said.. 'I applied for it'.
We were doing FAC - guess who had a personal motivation issue for a few days?
2nd Dec 2008, 06:55
The very latest compulsory redundancies were the Clerk Caterers who declined the marvellous opportunity to remuster to Steward or Chef, the next will be the Painters & Finishers when that trade is fully contracted out next year.
2nd Dec 2008, 07:01
Isn't being turned down for re-engagement a form of redundancy? If so, I can think of a lot of people who were made redundant during the 70's.
2nd Dec 2008, 07:59
My nephew, a substantive sergeant in the Royal Tank Regiment , was made, no choice about it, redundant. A few months later after he had settled into civilian life they asked him if he wanted his job back!!!
2nd Dec 2008, 08:07
Isn't being turned down for re-engagement a form of redundancy?
Good point Blacksheep. I left after serving 19 years with 3 years seniority which meant a full 22 year pension, gratuity plus redundacy. However I knew guys (some ex Halton) who could only extend their service from 12 to 15 years, not 22. They were then turned down for re-engagement to 22 years and left at the 15 years point with barely anything. Not surprisingly they were very resentful about the deal I and many others received. They were among the best too.
2nd Dec 2008, 08:28
This might well be going back further than intended, but the MOD did say EVER.
2nd Dec 2008, 09:43
Wrathmonk, good point. I mis-read it and thought it meant no redundancies this time round..
Some of those in 1994 were COMPULSORY redundancies and it was known as Black Tuesday.
This was also the time they did away with the Sim trade (L Tech ST) in toto and Stats people. I knew a lot of ST's who were far from happy at going even if they were getting a full 18 months pay (tax free) and 16/22nds of a full pension. :ugh:
The complusory redundancies were made because they abolished the trade group, ergo, no trade, no job. What made no sense however was that several L Tech ST were trained and flying an AT on the E3 and they were also made redundant at the same time as the sqn was trying to work up.
The argument was that their E3 tour was a one-off and at the end of the tour they would revert to a ground trade that had been abolished so they had to go NOW. :cool:
2nd Dec 2008, 09:45
That picture, (from Henry Crun), reminds me of my days at Middle Wallop during flying training(1964/5), when the course commenced a picture was taken and displayed in Ground School, as the course progressed if an officer candidate was chopped he got a neat bowler hat painted onto his head but if an NCO candidate got chopped he got a rather obvious big cross right across his face!
2nd Dec 2008, 20:18
The Fleet Air Arm made a number of aircrew compulsory redundant in 1994. I still remember the tale of one chap who having been forced to hand in his ID card then rang up the RN recruiting office and applied to rejoin..... they asked him wht made him think he would be a good Observer and he replied...
"Well, I'm still in date for my dingy drills if that counts"
3rd Dec 2008, 13:56
Wader2, Re your last The complusory redundancies were made because they abolished the trade group, ergo, no trade, no job. there were several Eng Tech A compulsory redundancies in the '94 cull. I remember seeing 3 very upset guys from the hangar at the secret helicopter base in Hampshire as they were kicked out not at their request, conversly a lot of chaps upset as they didn't get the redunancy. As this was a good payout at the time.
3rd Dec 2008, 18:48
I left in the '96 Redundancy which had very attractive financial incentives - only had 5 years to do anyway. Having already done 31 years 1 month and 20 days I think I repayed my training costs.
It was the 1975 Scheme which was "Positively the last Redundancy Scheme the RAF will ever have". Within 2 years they were writing to people who had left asking if they would like to rejoin. I believe that some of the replies were not what they expected!!
3rd Dec 2008, 19:20
After a year out, they wrote to me and asked me to come back as a HRR (High Readiness Reserve) pilot. They offered me a daily rate and travelling expenses. Motor mileage from Luton airport to Odiham and back to Luton, that is. They expected me to fund the other 12,000 miles of the journey every time I went to work. And presumably to bring my own car with me on the plane.
3rd Dec 2008, 20:27
I were but a young lad in 75 on C watch R12 Staxton Wold. About 35 on a shift 4 days on 4 days off. Came back off 4 days at home, shift down to 20 odd. They just went and were never seen again! Lost some excellent characters back then.