Fined for landing early?!

[Tigger4Me]

I flew with a charter into Gatwick last night. While waiting at PFO we were pleased to see that the outbound was coming in 30 mins early. Despite that we were kept waiting for boarding and once seated the Captain made an announcement I’d not heard before. He apologised for keeping us waiting but the reason was that if he had boarded us and departed when he could, we would have arrived into LGW 1 hour early. He said that would have resulted in a very heavy fine for the airline. As it was we would depart on time but still arrive about 15 minutes early and well within the parameters for fine avoidance. “It’s a Gatwick thing,” he said. That raises several questions in my non-professional mind:

1. What are the “parameters”, i.e. How early do you have to be before you get fined?
2. How much is the fine and is it variable according to how early you are?
3. By saying, “It’s a Gatwick thing,” am I correct in assuming that it only occurs at LGW?
4. What justification is there for the fine?
5. Are there ever any mitigating circumstances that they accept? For instance, I once took off from MCO on time but thanks to a strong jet stream arrived about 90 minutes early. Should that have been foreseen by the crew and departure time delayed or do the powers that be with the penalty ticket book fine them regardless?

In the event, apart from some turbulence, we had an excellent flight arriving 35 minutes early so I hope that didn’t cost them. My thanks to flight deck and cabin crew for an excellent flight. :ok:

[The Real Slim Shady]

The noise ban.

If you land or take off within a certain time the fees are escalated enormously. Similar at MAN.

[Alteburger]

Tigger

The airline I work for has a base at Gatwick and the information that has been provided to us is that the system is to avoid abuse of runway slots. If you arrive at LGW more than 20 minutes early, your departure time is scrutinized and, if that is more than 10 mins early, your airline is fined. Apparently there is a computer network which allows departure times to be monitored, certainly on our European network. It is possible though it seems, to renegotiate this runway slot on occasions usually by the company, (though ATC have helped me out by doing this on a couple of quiet evenings) if you are potentially going to be infringing the allowed window.

[Skipness One Echo]

In recent years early in the morning there would be nowhere to park at Gatwick. With the loss of XL, NWA, Continental, American, Zoom and others, that's not the issue it was recently.

[B Sousa]

They must get a rebate if they are late, all that I have been on are.

[Avman]

Same applies at AMS. Due to very strong tailwinds (jetstream) we were deliberately delayed 40 mins beyond STD leaving IAD so that we could arrive 30 minutes ahead of STA at AMS without penalty.

[Otto Throttle]

There are a number of major European airfields classed as 'co-ordinated' airfields.

Arrivals into (and presumably departures from) these airfields are monitored, and operators who repeatedly arrive significantly ahead of their scheduled arrival time, run the risk of being fined if they do not make efforts to remedy the situation.

As I understand it, provided operators depart no more than 5 minutes before their scheduled off-blocks time, then an early arrival will not be penalised, nor will one-off early arrivals be penalised. The system is primarily to discourage the difficulties caused by repeated early arrivals, with early being classed as 20 mins or more ahead of schedule.

I'm not certain, but I believe weather factors and ATC speed control will also negate any risk of a fine as these are outside of the direct influence of an operator.

[Tigger4Me]

Some interesting replies. Thanks everyone.

[MarcJF]

stops the locals setting their watch by the planes, but on the other hand if you choose to live near an airport, station etc.....

[Chesty Morgan]

Tigger,

I did a bit of digging when I first heard about these fines. The bottom line, after much e-mail to and froing, is if you leave on schedule (no earlier than STD-5) and fly at your flight planned speeds you will not be fined for arriving early, no matter how early that is. This is certainly true of the European and UK airports that I fly into but others may vary.

Off the top of my head:

Amsterdam, Dublin, Alicante, Nice, Faro and about ten others I can't recall at the mo.

CM

[EGCC4284]

It apply's to 4 UK airports and the fine is £20,000.

We can land 20 minutes early, and not earlier than that.

Thomsonfly FO

[Tigger4Me]

Thanks EGCC. So obviously not a Gatwick thing then. Maybe a BAA thing or is your own base also included. In other words, where do I need to fly from to make sure that you drivers can get me home in good time if thay can! ;)

[Ratatat]

Have had a few aircraft say they cannot land before a certain time for fear of being fined.
A quick call to apron and you are told it is a "do not park on stand before ..." restriction.
Rarely anything to do with noise quotas. Stand is normally available, but you have the ridiculous situation of extra fuel being burnt unneccessarily, be it holding in the air or on the ground.