Punk wearing RAF jacket interviewed by police

[JessTheDog]

According to the Daily Mail, a contestant on University Challenge has been interviewed and warned by police for wearing a RAF No 1 jacket with medal ribbons. Apparently he could have been breaking the law by "impersonating an officer" and "wearing medal ribbons he was not entitled to". However, the mohican seems to reassure me that the wasn't impersonating an officer (which is not an offence and, in any case, even serving personnel can wear uniform as fancy dress as long as it is obsolete/non-standard under QRs) and I doubt the spectacularly-hirsute young lad even knows what medal ribbons are.

So, why aren't the police always so particular in chasing up complaints - particularly involving obscene phone calls made on air which were far clearer breaches of the law?

Excuse me while I yawn and stretch a little....

What next? Round up those wearing German Army shirts or US Army jackets?

Punk student on University Challenge is a dead ringer for Vyvyan from The Young Ones | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1089279/Punk-student-University-Challenge-dead-ringer-Vyvyan-The-Young-Ones.html)


He doesn't look like your average University Challenge contestant.
Indeed viewers could have been forgiven for thinking they were watching a rerun of The Young Ones, which once featured punk character Vyvyan in a spoof version of the student quiz.

But while violence-loving Vyvyan was from Scumbag College in the Eighties comedy, back on the real University Challenge James Archer was representing the altogether more august King's College, Cambridge.

And in a move which Vyvyan would have been proud of, he has been warned against wearing his medal-adorned jacket in future by police after viewers complained that he was breaking the law by imitating an RAF officer.
Yesterday the second-year social and political sciences student claimed he decided to dress like this to dispel the 'stuffy' image of Cambridge.

The teenager was contacted by the police who warned him against wearing the clothing in the future.

Peter Wells, spokesman for Cambridgeshire Police, confirmed that a complaint was received from a retired member of the RAF.

He said: 'We can confirm that we received a complaint from a retired member of the RAF about medal ribbons being worn by one of the team members on University Challenge.

'We informally advised the student concerned that it could be an offence to wear medals to which he was not entitled and he took our advice on board.'
James, who is in his second year studying social and political sciences, appeared on the show three times in total, each time wearing the jacket.
He said he was surprised when he was phoned by the police after the second episode.

He said: 'I got the jacket from an army surplus shop and apparently it's illegal.
'After a previous programme, someone complained to the police and they phoned me and said it was illegal because I was imitating an officer.
'They said they wouldn't do anything, though, and the other episodes had already been recorded with me wearing it.'

[Archimedes]

First of all,the chap was wearing a Corporal's No1 jacket (it had the tapes on the arm), which meant that he wasn't impersonating an officer, and second, I rather think that there's no law against it. Which law bars the wearing of surplus military uniform which still has rank tapes, medal ribbons on it? Does this mean that Army Surplus stores such as the one in Taunton which sells JHWs still replete with RM insigna upon it is facilitating the commission of a criminal offence?

Had he been wearing a PC's uniform, then he would've been in breach of the law. Likewise, I don't think that there's any UK equivalent to the Stolen Valor [sic] act in the States, so his wearing the medal ribbons left on the jacket when he bought it can't be an offence either...

Unless some law which would kill walting at a stroke has appeared without anyone here or on Arrse (with its infamous Waltenkommando unit...) spotting it, then the police would seem to have been wasting their own time?

On top of that, the bloke's hairstyle would mean that you'd have to be exceptionally pedantic to argue that he was impersonating a member of the armed forces.

[airborne_artist]

So the police have time to ring a punk who wears an old uniform jacket. They must have all the criminals locked up, all roads safe, no missing dogs and nothing left to do.

Or perhaps not :ugh:

[diginagain]

So he was a teenage acting Corporal, then?

[JessTheDog]

I've racked my brains to see how this could be considered offensive. It is probably a little in bad taste, at most. However, there is a long and distinguished history of students and young types with outlandish hairstyles wearing military surplus uniforms....in my young days (harrumph) it was girls with dyed hair, German Army shirts and boots.

What should be of grave concern is the limits precedent this could set for selling on old uniforms after retirement! :uhoh:

I kept my No 1s and No 5s, wouldn't want to sell them on personally.

[preduk]

So the police have time to ring a punk who wears an old uniform jacket. They must have all the criminals locked up, all roads safe, no missing dogs and nothing left to do.

Sadly when someone makes a complaint we have to investigate it regardless of our opinion on the matter. I would much rather be out chasing idiots on the street than question some guy trying to make a fashion statement.

[airborne_artist]

Sadly when someone makes a complaint we have to investigate it regardless of our opinion on the matter.

No, you don't. You can tell the person that it's not worth pursuing, and that you have better things to do. I know you can't really, but what ever happened to common sense?

[Pointy Pilot]

How come when I had my wheels stolen from my car nobody could be arsed to even come out, let alone investigate then? :ouch:

[airborne_artist]

The Telegraph says he was impersonating an officer. I can think of a few who have done that, all on full pay :E

[philbky]

I wonder just how much truth there is in the story. If it is of the same standard as many of the "stories" in the Daily Wail, it will be just that, a story (even the details are garbled in the piece), an inflated piece of nonsense, based on the flimsiest foundation, whipped up to stir the ire of Middle Englanders.

If a "retired member of the RAF" can't tell the difference between an NCO's and an Officer's uniform, then how would he know that wearing medal ribbons was illegal?

As far as it goes, many descendants of decorated and now deceased servicemen proudly, and rightly, wear their relatives' medals at Remembrance Day services and, whilst they have a legitimate reason and the contestant didn't, the practice, if illegal, has been allowed for decades and the law is supposed to be evenly applied.

I saw Monday's edition of UC and my only thought was that it always amazed me, and still does, how many young people will happily wear redundant military uniform from choice, whilst at the same keeping as far away as possible from military service.

On the point of the Police "having to investigate a complaint", how come that doesn't apply when petty robberies from cars (radios and such) are reported and all the Police are prepared to do is issue a crime number to back an insurance claim?

[strontium.dog74]

What are the rules on wearing uniform if you once served then? ie you served some time and have now left? I always thought that they couldn't wear uniform either but thought I'd ask anyway?

[Aeronut]

Archimedes,

A Corporal is a Junior Non-Commissioned Officer by the way so yes he was impersonating an officer, just not a commissioned one.

[airborne_artist]

HairyNuts - I think Archimedes knows the difference between an Officer and an NCO :ugh:

[GolfSierra]

He could well have been breaking Section 2 of the Uniforms Act 1894:

"It shall not be lawful for any person not serving in Her Majesty’s Military Forces to wear without Her Majesty’s permission the uniform of any of those forces, or any dress having the appearance or bearing any of the regimental or other distinctive marks of any such uniform: Provided that this enactment shall not prevent any persons from wearing any uniform or dress in the course of a stage play performed in a place duly licensed or authorised for the public performance of stage plays, or in the course of a music hall or circus performance, or in the course of any bona fide military representation."

Personally, I think common sense has a place in these matters.
(and I know I need to get out more)

[mr fish]

saw MOTORHEAD in concert a few years back, lemmy was (as usual) wearing an iron cross, i guess i should now be upset that one of my heros was fighting for the bad guys:(:(:(
p.s, i was nearly deaf for days after-thanks lemmy:ok:

[Phil_R]

On two occasions I've been involved in dressing actors in RAF uniform.

On both occasions, they were asked if they would please mind not hanging about outside the building having a fag in public while wearing it.

Then I went to an RAF station and there, hanging around outside the buildings having a fag, were lots of people in RAF uniform.

Ho, hum.

[Arkroyal]

Airborne, you beat me again as usual,

I was just about to admit to impersonating an officer for 16 years, and getting away with it!

What tosh. And the police wonder why they are held in such contempt.

[Flarkey]

was the punk not a member of Cambridge UAS?

[cresta10]

http://dallasvintageshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/military_airforce_uniforms.jpg


Do you need someones permission to buy and wear from this Dallas Vintage and Costume Shop Blog Archive Dress Uniform Jackets (http://dallasvintageshop.com/?p=445) shop..

Leave the guy alone...:suspect:

[November4]

If he had been wearing the uniform in order to gain something - miltary discount perhaps - then there might be a Fraud by False Reprsentation there (makes a false statement with intent to make a gain or make someone suffer a loss)

But in this case - what a waste of police time (if the story is true)

Fraud by False Rep could be applied to those identified on the SAS imposter rumbled (http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/351772-sas-imposter-rumbled.html)

[Shack37]

He did very well on the program, despite intense interrogation by Herr Paxman he refused to answer any questions. wouldn't even give name, rank or number.
A credit to his team, who lost unfortunately so we won't see him again.
s37

[ShyTorque]

he refused to answer any questions. wouldn't even give name, rank or number.

Good on him, he deserves a medal..... Oh.... :oh:

;)

[Zoom]

Hope he wasn't wearing wings. Now that would have been a crime! :=

[goudie]

Hope he wasn't wearing wings. Now that would have been a crime! :=


Just as well he wasn't, could've been mistaken for Gaipilot

[AllTrimDoubt]

More of a crime was his impersonantion of "The Young Ones"

Anyone else amused by the moment?

[Aeronut]

airborne armpit

"I think Archimedes knows the difference between an Officer and an NCO"

One would hope so - But that aint wot he said.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

The point being that the infringement of impersonating an officer extends even to junior, non-commisisoned ones.

[Karl Bamforth]

One day whilst bored half to death and scanning QR's for those funny snippets I found one that stated " If an airman is not wearing his head cover then he is not in uniform" (or words to that effect) This in effect meant that Joe SWO couldn't tell you to put your hat on, as without it you were not in uniform anyway.

I never did get up the courage to try it out.

But if my memory is correct his hair style would preclude the wearing of said hat and therefore couldn't be considered to be in uniform.

Are QR's on the internet yet? They make great reading.

Another one was:

When walking past a female an airman is allowed to keep one hand in his pocket to avoid embaressment to either party.

[reynoldsno1]

Oh dear, I let mrsr1 wear my old No.1 jacket & SD hat (with all regalia) to a fancy dress party, and her friend wore my old mess kit - looked quite chic with a forage cap. The fit was a bit on the loose side....:}

Should I give myself up to the local constabulary now ......???

[Blacksheep]

The SWO at Waddo stopped a scruffy 'erbert who he took to be a member of the Hawker Siddeley work party from 2 Shed. Wandering down the main drag with his hands in his pockets and sporting a fine mullet with mutton chop sideburns and wearing a Corporal's battledress blouse with red and white striped football scarf and woolly pom-pom hat. He bollocked the chap for wearing the jacket with the stripes, Queens crown buttons and the albatrosses still on it.

The trouble was, Tom B******* was a real RAF Corporal from Line Servicing Squadron. :rolleyes:

[12 twists per inch]

At least it wasn't a flying suit - its definately not a flying related task ;)

[parabellum]

Just a personal view but I think that anyone who wears a military jacket that they are obviously not entitled to is just making a complete arse of themselves and are being a tad disrespectful to those who wear the uniform legally, (unless it is a private party etc).

Two points, I believe it is an offence to wear military medals in public that you are not entitled to.

It is my understanding that if one wears medals on behalf of another at a remembrance parade or suchlike then they should be worn on the right side of the chest.

[airborne_artist]

Parabellum - I grew up in the punk era, so I suppose I see it differently, and it does not worry me. The reaction you display is just what they want to provoke; they like the fact that your blood has boiled. Treating them as just another individual neutralises them.

[scarecrow450]

Just hope the punk was'nt gay as well !!!:mad:

I am a gay punk thinking of not joining the RAF, can anyone advise ?

[ShyTorque]

I advise you to join the navy instead, along with the rest of them......

[Archimedes]

AA/Aeronut

airborne armpit

"I think Archimedes knows the difference between an Officer and an NCO"

One would hope so - But that aint wot he said.

The point being that the infringement of impersonating an officer extends even to junior, non-commisisoned ones.

I had mistakenly inferred that the complainant had been very specific that the chap was impersonating a commissioned officer. This came about from my habit of reading anything in the Daily Mail at speed to make the experience as short and painless as possible...

[Laarbruch72]

Zoom wrote: Hope he wasn't wearing wings. Now that would have been a crime

And that's worse than wearing a long service medal ribbon how exactly? Get over yourself.

I've got no real problem with yoofs wearing bits of military kit, if that floats their boat. I'd rather they didn't, and it does piss me off a little, but hey, we fight for their right to do as they please so I can't complain too much.

The medal ribbons are a different kettle of fish I'm afraid. I worked damn hard for two of the ribbons he's wearing, and he can just go and wear them willy nilly? No, I'm sorry, **** him. Get them off.

I know Sgt Pepper et al have had a history of wearing military bits of dress, and good on them. Decorations is too far though.

(PS: The police didn't "investigate" this, they merely recieved a complaint, and an officer rang the lad up and told him not to be so provocative in future. The lad agreed it wasn't the best choice. End of. Let's not make out there was some sort of official case file).

[sitigeltfel]

He is a silly, immature, attention seeking little boy and discussion such as this only serves to boost his kudos among his equally pathetic peer group.

It is not as if someone out there would mistake him for a real corporal, is it? His actions are designed to create a reaction and he has got what he wanted. Best just to ignore him and let him find some other toys to play with.

[FlapJackMuncher]

For my 18th birthday I was given a small handful of cash by my parents and went up to London to spend it.
I trawelled Tottenham Court Road and bought a ghetto-blaster (this wasn't yesterday you understand) and from a small shop off Carnaby Street the closest thing i could find to Adam Ant's French Cavalry jacket. This turned out to be a Royal Marine Band's jacket - (not even remotely close I know, but it fitted and had a bit of gold piping. Must see if i can find it.)

Should I turn myself in or choose option B?
A.
"Alright Officer, i'll come quietly"
or
B.
"you'll never take me alive, copper"

[Laarbruch72]

^^ How about you just make sure it doesn't have medal ribbons on it that you're not entitled to wear? Then you can wear it as often as you please, it's not really going to offend anyone.
(Well, as long as you don't wear the trousers, a white helmet, and carry a trombone around with you!)

[FlapJackMuncher]

Trombone!!
Bah. Lightweight.
Tuba or Bass drum if you please.

(if i can find it this Christmas I may have to treat myself to a nice white belt, very fetching)

[aw ditor]

See the Uniform Act of 1894.

[Zoom]

And that's worse than wearing a long service medal ribbon how exactly? Get over yourself.

Sense of humour failure, eh Laarbruch? :rolleyes:

But since you asked, I worked damned hard for my wings and plenty of people can just go and wear them willy nilly as well. Get them off as well, I say.

[XV277]

For all your Punk needs:

Disposal Services Authority (http://www.edisposals.com)

Desert pattern shirts seemed especially popular amongst the general public this summer

[Shack37]

"Seems a bit rich to be slagging the guy off based on his dress-sense, with associated snide remarks hinting that he's some kind of low-life, while conveniently ignoring the fact that he's at Cambridge University."

That makes it ok then!:rolleyes:

[N707ZS]

Heard Prince Edward was on the TV uniformed and wearing medals, out of curiosity were did they come from?

[Logistics Loader]

The plods picking on this guy would explain the following.:

I was doing 120mph down motorway

After drinking 2ltrs white wine

6 cans Cider

smoked 2 spliffs

thought i was flying a Harrier...

and i got away with it....!!!

Yeah right...

have the authorities got nowt better to do than go for petty things like this student who is probably naive !!

as for HRH Edward..

Honours
Appointments
10 March 1989 – 2 June 2003: Commander of the Royal Victorian Order (CVO)
2 June 2003: Knight Commander of the Royal Victorian Order (KCVO)[8]
23 April 2006: Royal Knight of the Most Noble Order of the Garter (KG)
1 August 2004: Personal Aide-de-Camp to Her Majesty The Queen (AdC(P))
11 May 2005: Honorary Member of the Saskatchewan Order of Merit (SOM)[9]
Decorations
10 March 1977: Queen Elizabeth II Silver Jubilee Medal
1990: New Zealand Commemorative Medal
2 June 2002: Queen Elizabeth II Golden Jubilee Medal
7 June 2005: Commemorative Medal for the Centennial

so thats his medal entitlement etc

[corsair]

I don't know what the fuss is about, every second person seems to wear some form of military surplus. Building workers all seem to have a piece of desert DPM. It's hardly illegal if it's sold off officially.

Interestingly if it was Irish military issue, he would be arrested and charged. Because there actually is a law against wearing current issue gear here. It was in place to stop the IRA from poncing around looking as if they were a real army. So ironically the IRA often wore British gear:ugh: Which wasn't illegal.

[soprano54]

So just to confirm he wasn't actually a serving member of the RAF then?

[SimonRG10]

S3 Uniforms Act 1894

It is an offence for any person not serving in Her Majesty's forces to wear without Her Majesty's permision any dress having the appearance, or bearing any of the distinctive marks of any such uniform.

Exemption for stage plays etc.

[AR1]

Its one thing dressing like an article of forestry, but personally I found display of rank and medals ever so slightly offensive (possibly because I never attained either...) And that's coming from an ex-punk.

Anyway his team were sh*t and they lost - all that education for nothing eh?

[unclenelli]

Doing my Xmas shopping (early due to OOA LTA Xmas Eve) in Lincoln I saw a youth (aged about 20-ish) wearing a Gp Capt Great Coat (may have been a VR(T) Gp Capt)
OK so it was baltic cold, but a great coat???

[Solid Rust Twotter]

No you haven't.

I'm Spartacus.

Any form of camoflauged kit was not allowed to be worn by anyone except the police in SA pre 1994 due to the security situation. The law is still in effect and has never been rescinded but the wearing of camo is now overlooked because of the preference of the youth to trot around in urban disco camo. SA Plod are next to useless so it probably hasn't even occurred to them. Perhaps UK Plod merely ignores it on the whole unless it's broadcast on national television and becomes a bit in-your-face.

At least he's not going around saying he was up on the balcony with the few thousand others who claim to have been there.