Bangkok int'l airport closed

[SuanLum]

Can't find any threads covering this. The Anti government protesters(PAD) closing Suvarnabhumi airport in Bangkok today.BA have cancelled some flights and diverted/rerouted another,not clear as to when the airport will reopen.

[beamender99]

There are lots of news reports of events - Google News?

[raffele]

BBC reporting: BBC NEWS | World | Asia-Pacific | Bangkok protesters fire on rivals (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7747886.stm)

BA have cancelled flights: British Airways - Latest News (http://www.britishairways.com/travel/flightops/public/en_gb?p_faqid=3544)

Pretty serious stuff by the sounds of it

[ZFT]

All departing flights cancelled with only limited arrivals.

Local media report 10,000 stranded.

Yet another own goal by the PAD and further evidence of an ineffective (Thaksin puppet) government.

[chiglet]

Yet another own goal by the PAD and further evidence of an ineffective (Thaksin puppet) government.

I might be wrong, but I thought that Thaksin was popular outside the Cities....:confused:

[B747-800]

just received info that the airport might open this afternoon/evening but a final announcement should be made later in the day.

all outgoing pax from yesterday afternoon/evening are stranded. all flights are being diverted as of this time.

Suvarnabhumi Airport | New Bangkok Airport Guide (http://www.bangkokairportonline.com/)


Suvarnabhumi Airport closed for security reasons

Tags: News (http://www.bangkokairportonline.com/taxonomy/term/1)
For security reasons, Suvarnabhumi Airport will be closed from 9pm onwards after anti-government protesters blocked entrance of the airport.
Acting Airports of Thailand (AoT) president and Acting Suvarnabhumi Airport Director Serirat Prasutanont announced shortly after 9pm on Tuesday that the airport cancelled all departing flights.
For the time being incoming flights are still arriving, but airport operations have been greatly disrupted.
Hotline number for airport inquiries: 02-1321882 and 02-1321888.
Thai Airways flight information number: 02-3561111.

[mark sicknote]

747-8

Pls. keep updating if you have a reliable source.

Best,

Sicknote:ok:

[ZFT]

Chiglet,

I might be wrong, but I thought that Thaksin was popular outside the Cities...He's still popular in the north which only goes to prove you can fool some of the people all of the time.

[daz211]

Protesters have taken over the CONTROL TOWER :eek:.

[Scouser1]

Do try and keep us posted. My husband is crew on the BA9 that should have operated BKK-SYD today. He's stuck in the hotel and not getting a lot of info locally......thanks...

[WillMac]

From Thai Airways website:


Thai Airways International - Australia - Royal Orchid Holidays (http://www.thaiairways.com.au/thai_special_offers_desc.asp?special_cat=What%27s%20New&id=198)


Updated : Wednesday, 26 November 2008
Please check traveller information and advice at www.smarttraveller.gov.au (http://www.smarttraveller.gov.au/)


As a result of political demonstrations at Bangkok Airport, please be informed that Bangkok Suvarnabhumi International Airport will be closed until 6pm Bangkok local time (10pm AEST).




Not sure what their source is though.

[Will Hung]

Tourism levels already 50% down for an economy based on rice and tourism.

Well, that should nail it. Nice one PAD !!!

[stickyb]

From the Bangkok Post site about one hour ago



(BangkokPost.com) About 30 People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) guards wearing masks on Wednesday took control of Suvarnabhumi airport’s air traffic control tower to check the daily flight schedule.

PAD security head Samdin Lertbutr together with a group of guards entered the air traffic control tower and negotiated with the airport officials. The group said they wanted to make sure that no flights will leave or enter Suvarnabhumi while checking whether Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat’s flight would arrive at the airport.
Initially, airport officials permitted five of the guards to enter the tower, but the guards later requested the officials to let all of them go through to prevent the police from using the tower as a command centre against them.

They have also been quoted elsewhere as saying they will stay in occupation at the airport and keep it closed until the government resigns.

[stickyb]

Do try and keep us posted. My husband is crew on the BA9 that should have operated BKK-SYD today. He's stuck in the hotel and not getting a lot of info locally......thanks...

I am in Thailand at the moment, and can reassure you that your husband is very unlikely to be exposed to harm if the stays in the hotel, or stays away from the areas occupied byu the protestors. One thing I wouldn't do is put on uniform and attempt to go to the airport.

[TopSwiss 737]

Also stuck in BKK until further notice.... :ooh:

I can confirm that not much out of the ordinary is going on around our hotel here (city centre) at this time.

Still, I agree with stickyb: stay in the hotel and remain clear of large crowds.

Rgds TS737

[Juzz51]

I'm stuck in BKK at the moment. After a big night out last night I had no choice but to go through the protesters in order to get back to my hotel. Speaking to some of them the general consensus seems to be that they'll shut down the airport for as long as they have to. Could be stuck here for a while I guess...

[stickyb]

There is a news conference from the head of the military on tv at the moment. he appears to be saying government has resigned and new election will be held

Correction - he is saying that governemnt should resign. Seems the military has finally taken sides.

[peterperfect]

I can't think of too many better cities to be stranded in this weekend !

[B747-800]

don mueang is reactivated. flights are going in and out from there but on an irregular basis.

flights which took off before the closure and are enroute to Suvarnabhumi are diverted to don mueang or chiangmai.

[stickyb]

flights which took off before the closure and are enroute to Suvarnabhumi are diverted to don mueang or chiangmai.
or to U-Tapao near Pattaya. (UTP or VTBU)

Someone I know was on the EVA flight from LHR and they are now queuing with hundreds of others to go through the one immigration desk.

[ZFT]

VTBD was reactivated months ago for domestic flights , however it is only receiving the occasional international flight. No international departures from VTBD.

Also it seems no more reservations are being accepted for domestic departures from about 2 hours ago - just in case!

[Bangkokeasy]

Reliable sources I have report that certain of the cargo sheds at Suvarnabhumi have been commandeered for use by security forces. I expect that there will be some action tonight to reclaim the airport.

[Thaihawk]

The following flights are known to have diverted to U-Tapao(VTBU/UTP) on the 26th,

KMI302 B727 K Mile from SIN
IC853 A320 Indian Airlines from DEL
IC693 A321 Indian Airlines from BOM
TG508 A330 Thai from KHI
U63785 A320 Ural Airlines from SVX
TG520 A330 Thai from DXB
TG941 A340 Thai from FCO
LY081 B777 El Al from TLV
ET606 B767 Etheopian from ADD
OS025 B777 Austrian from VIE
BR68 B744 EVA from LHR
XF737 TU-204 Vladivostok A/L from SEL

[Thaihawk]

A highly reliable source in Bangkok in the airfreight industry reports the Airports of Thailand(AoT) have announced that Suvarnabhumi airport will not re-open before 18.00 local time on the 27th(11.00Z).

A further announcement will be made tomorrow.

[1station]

Can anyone confirm if AY095 HEL-BKK landed safely and if so what time. Friends were on board and can't make contact.

Thanks.

[Thaihawk]

AY095 from Helsinki was cancelled today according to the AOT Suvarnabhumi webpage.

[1station]

My apologies I was referring to the previous days operation, arriving BKK on the Tuesday evening. I know the flight was delayed approx 6 hours ex HEL.

[harrogate]

Reliable sources I have report that certain of the cargo sheds at Suvarnabhumi have been commandeered for use by security forces. I expect that there will be some action tonight to reclaim the airport.

I've been in text contact with a pal there and he says he thinks things are starting to happen now. Heavily armed police, rather than armed forces is the perception.

Any clarification from anyone?

[raffele]

I just heard on the news that the PM landed at a different airport within Thailand. From what I can gather, the reason the airport was stormed was to stop the PM landing there. Now that the PM has landed elsewhere in the country, surely the PAD can give up blockading BKK as there's no need anymore...

My thoughts to all those stuck there, particularly those stuck airside who can't move either forwards or backwards. Hopefully you'll all be able to get going shortly

[harrogate]

The protesters know that the PM flew in to Chiang Mai yesterday, but they're not about to pull out of the airport. It's strategically important to them. They have said they'll continue to keep the airport closed until the PM resigns, so it's stalemate.

What happens next at the airport may well be key to whether or not the uprising spreads to the streets nationally. It's interesting, because I don't think the army are gonna get involved if the government asks them to. It looks like a not very well disguised military encouraged coup.

[goathead]

A TRUE BANANA REPUBLIC IN PROGRESS....:ok:

[Rainboe]

My experience of Thailand is not of a banana republic. Things work there, the infrastructure is sound, hospitals good- Bumrungrad Hospital is of world class. Electric supply fine, public transport good, business environment good. I love the place. We have civil strife over politics- exactly what we will have in the UK if we don't get this awful government out along with our horrifyingly dreadful spendthrift leader! It could happen here. Might be only me, but I will do my best!

[harrogate]

I think you're talking about the psuedo-middle class and heavily westernised orbits of Bangkok and similar cities.

Other parts of the country (and swathes of Bangkok) aren't anywhere near as developed as that. Take a train out of Bangkok and experience from the comfort of your air conditioned train seat how the other four fifths live.

But nor is it a Banana Republic. It's similar to a lot of other Asian countries in that the trappings of a modern western lifestyle are in abundance, but the whole infrastructure buidling era has been bypassed in many areas, even though it had a big infrastructure boost a few years ago when Uncle Sam was in town. You can have your broadband and your 3G phone there, but don't expect civic amenities and utilities. Seen many ramshackle shacks with satellite dishes in my time. The decent infrastructure that was put in place a few decades ago is crumbling in many areas. Sounds a bit like Britain dunnit.

And yes - I have lived and worked there a fair bit over the years. Up in the north, in the middle and down in the south. It's a cracking place and I wouldn't change a lot of it for the world, but it's got big problems and the biggest one is the turbulent political scene (nationally and locally). It's hard to see how they'll ever have harmony, because anarchy seems to pervade a certain section of every generation.

And given that it's a nation built on exports, I fear for the future of Thailand. The economy there is on the brink and I don't think you'll see any Tiger affected more by the global downturn than Thailand.

But yeah, apparently the mission to re-take the airport is on. Interesting times.

[1station]

Can anyone confirm if AY095 HEL-BKK landed safely on Tuesday evening and if so what time. Friends were on board and can't make contact. Their parents are concerned.

Thanks.:ok:

[harrogate]

I did a search for diversion info, and the website I found said it never left HEL.

"Finnair
AY095 HEL - BKK, departing 25NOV08 from HEL cancelled
AY096 BKK - HEL, departing 26NOV08 from BKK at 0035, delayed to 0300"

[Dream Land]

Great country and great people, my flight yesterday cancelled, hope they work things out soon.

[Off Stand]

I am in SYD at the moment (we were one of the last flights out of BKK just before it closed) and this afternoon instead of operating the BA010 to BKK, we are taking it to SIN. From there, we are not sure what will happen. We have the a/c from yesterday's canx BA010 to BKK, shame as we wouldn't mind an extra 24 hours here.

Our rosters still say that we will be operating BKK-LHR on Saturday, but who knows.

[B747-800]

the thais have now closed also don mueang. only upt is at the moment receiving flights destine for BKK.

according to our station in BKK they expect a "clearing" of the terminal within the day. there seems to be heavy troop movement in the area.

anybody can confirm that?

we were able to ferry out one a/c which was on the ground empty. so its all now for us water under the bridge except the revenue losses and the poor angry pax sitting in BKK.

we are coordinating with our crews in BKK to take a rent-a-car to KL and than go DH back home.

this is a real mess in Thailand. spoke to our reservation department and we have about 70% cancellation to BKK till january.

other airlines are in a similiar situation and are getting cancellations by the hundreds per hour for BKK.

how is UPT handling the traffic? any experience on turn around time there for A320?

[Juzz51]

A state of emergency has just been called for both airports in Bangkok. Police have been assigned to break up the protests. I assume they'll use all necessary force. Also it has been announced that the main airport will remain closed until at least 6pm 29th November.

[B747-800]

station manager is reporting heavy police movement in the area - good that he's home - any news from there?

[Juzz51]

No news yet. The PM was suppose to officially announce the state of emergency at 8:30pm, its now 9:00pm. I suspect once the police are in position he'll announce the state of emergency and they'll begin the process of removing the protesters. There will probably be a bit of bloodshed tonight one could assume...

[Thaihawk]

Very few flights are diverting to U-Tapao.I posted a list of yesterday's ones.

AS for turn round times,these are best described as protracted.Probably the best performance yesterday was BR68 from LHR to TPE which was on the ground for 4 hours.

A Ural Airlines A320 was on the deck for 9 hours and the 2 Indian Airlines A320/A321 were on the ground for some 13 hours.

The El Al flight departed from here around 05.00 this morning,some 5 hours behind time.

Bringing the PAX from BKK is no easy task and delays for catering and immigration add to the problems.

Today's diversions up to 20.00 local time were UN505/506(B777),S7859/860 (A310) and TK061 (A330?).

Bangkok Air are operating some additional flights from the south into here.

[Thaihawk]

Around 18.00 hours local time a statement wes released stating that both Bangkok airports would remain closed for another 48 hours.

At the same time a state of emergency was declared at both airports,which among other things prohibits gatherings of more than 5 people.

As the Army are reluctant to intervene,the government would appear to be powerless to halt this protest.

The PAD have blockaded Government House for some 3 months already,and as their numbers at Suvarnabhumi run well into the thousands,a settlement needs to be arrived at,or these airports could remain closed for some time.

Any attempt at removing the protesters by force could result in Suvarnabhumi being trashed.

The trouble here is for a settlement to be arrived at,someone has to lose face,which in Asia is a big no-no.

[B747-800]

Very few flights are diverting to U-Tapao.I posted a list of yesterday's ones.

AS for turn round times,these are best described as protracted.Probably the best performance yesterday was BR68 from LHR to TPE which was on the ground for 4 hours.

A Ural Airlines A320 was on the deck for 9 hours and the 2 Indian Airlines A320/A321 were on the ground for some 13 hours.

The El Al flight departed from here around 05.00 this morning,some 5 hours behind time.

Bringing the PAX from BKK is no easy task and delays for catering and immigration add to the problems.

Today's diversions up to 20.00 local time were UN505/506(B777),S7859/860 (A310) and TK061 (A330?).

Bangkok Air are operating some additional flights from the south into here.

@Thaihawk, thanks mate for the info. we got similiar info from other airlines and decided to shy away for some flights into VTBU.

what do you think of the other option of collecting pax in bkk and hire a coach/es for them to go to Phuket? does that make sence?

[Thaihawk]

B747-800,

It,s a long way to Phuket from BKK,Surat Thani may be a better option as it is around half the distance from BKK,and the airport is just off route 4.

They don't have scheduled international flights,but charters operate from there time to time,so arranging immigration should be no problem.

They built a new terminal there in the late 90s,so the airport should be a good choice to use.

Other options might be Khon Kean,some 300 Km north,or Phitsanulok,again around 300 Km north of BKK.

Best of luck.

[harrogate]

It,s a long way to Phuket from BKK,Surat Thani may be a better option as it is around half the distance from BKK,and the airport is just off route 4.

You are kidding, right?

Surat Thani is nothing like only half the distance from BKK. Surat Thani and Phuket are only marginally further away than each other from BKK as the crow flies, and the difference is only a couple of hours by bus. Done the journey from BKK to Surat Thani and Phuket many, many times by bus, car, air and train.

from:Ratchadamnoen Nok to:4153 to:8.061405,98.31665 - Google Maps (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&saddr=Ratchadamnoen+Nok&daddr=4153+to:8.061405,98.31665&hl=en&geocode=FQD20QAdKqD9BQ%3BFcgGiwAdmNzpBQ%3B&mra=mi&mrcr=1&mrsp=2&sz=7&sll=9.459899,99.744873&sspn=5.665377,9.887695&ie=UTF8&ll=10.962764,102.194824&spn=11.264074,19.775391&z=6)

[raffele]

I know that BKK was evacuated of travellers last night/earlier today (GMT) but I've not heard anything about those stuck airside - have they been able to be evacuated to hotels etc? Or are they still in the airport as their visa's have now "left" the country and are therefore stuck?

I see that airlines are planning to run services to/from/via BKK from Friday, pending further updates about the situation at the airports

[Juzz51]

An update on my situation...went out on the town tonight, nothing different, no major police presence or anything like that, although we are no longer near the airport. Our company has decided the best plan of action is to book the crew on a charter flight out of the airport at Chon Buri tomorrrow, that plan is about 80% sure for tomorrow. We'll see how it goes.

[Oftenfly]

Concerning raffele's comment that `airlines are planning to run services to/from/via BKK from Friday, pending further updates about the situation at the airports,' at least publicly the airlines have been doing this for the last two days. It would be helpful to know whether, on Friday, the information on which these plans are based is more authoritative.

[simflea404]

Does Tiger Airlines still fly Udon Thani - Singapore? Sounds a long way to go but is in fact closer than Phuket. Also, many taxi/mini bus drivers are from the NE and so the fare tends to be much cheaper...5k-7k has been quoted in last last year for the taxi trip. Hotel accommodation isn't Bangkok standard but still good and 800 Baht can get you a double, 1700 baht a suite...3-4* standard.

Just a thought for those needing to get away soonest.

JH

[harrogate]

Tiger ditched the Udon Thani route.

Shame that. It was quite useful.

[Ejector]

Saturday November 29, 2008


Web Bangkok Post | The World's Window to Thailand | PAD, Thai politics, Thai government, People's Alliance for Democracy, Thailand, News (http://www.bangkokpost.com)
Region in chaos as air links severed

The severing of air links with Bangkok - a vital air hub that handles 3% of world air cargo and 100,000 travellers a day - rippled through the region with airlines scrambling to reroute passengers and freight as hopes for a quick resolution to the crisis faded.

The government yesterday backed away from a threat to use force to disperse the protesters who have shut down the capital's two commercial airports, setting the scene for a prolonged disruption to transport across the region and a massive blow to the kingdom's economy.

Since Tuesday, dozens of airlines have cancelled all flights to and from Bangkok until further notice while others made special arrangements to rescue passengers stranded in Thailand, some by utilising U-tapao airport.

Suvarnabhumi airport is one of the world's most "densely connected" airports, serving about 100 airlines with flights to 184 cities in 68 countries, said Andrew Herdman, director-general of the Association of Asia-Pacific Airlines.

"The biggest impact is on Thai Airways. Their hub is shut and crippling their operations," said Mr Herdman. "The ripple effect for other Asian carriers in rerouting passengers and cargo causes a significant knock-on disruption."

On a normal day, about 100,000 passengers pass through Suvarnabhumi, Mr Herdman said. "That's a lot of inconvenience for a lot of people," he said.

Thai Airways, losing 490 million baht in revenue a day with its fleet parked on the tarmac, said yesterday it would try to operate flights from U-tapao airport.

But it was unlikely U-tapao could handle more than a trickle of extra passengers. U-tapao's car park has room for just 100 vehicles and its terminal can accommodate only 400 people at once.

Cathay Pacific Airways scheduled two flights yesterday and today from U-tapao airport to bring home Hong Kong residents, said spokeswoman Carolyn Leung. Air Macao and Malaysia's AirAsia are also planning rescue flights to U-tapao.

Tourism officials and economists says the tourism industry's losses over the remainder of the year will balloon to about 150 billion baht, equal to 1.5% of gross domestic product, with two million or more travellers canceling their plans.

Exporters in Thailand are aghast at the mounting costs of lost trade, estimated by the Federation of Thai Industries at two to three billion baht a day.

Singapore Airlines' six daily flights to Bangkok were halted for a third day. Japan Airlines has stopped all five daily flights between Bangkok and three Japanese cities, including Tokyo, since Wednesday.

[tbavprof]

VTBU simply can't handle it all. The notice from ThaiNewsLand (http://www.thainewsland.com/?l=en&a=365365) lists 12 of the 20 additional airports. But like U-tapao, though the runways may be sufficient for traffic, passenger, ramp, immigration, security and customer service facilities will be lacking.

At least 3 of those alternates have previously been closed by the protesters.


ATTENTION: Chiang Mai International Airport, Phuket International Airport, Chiang Rai International Airport, Hat Yai International Airport, Khon Kaen Airport, Krabi Airport, Phitsanulok Airport, Samui Airport, Sukhothai Airport, Surat Thani Airport, Ubon Ratchathani Airport and Udon Thani International Airport are all operating normally. There has been no declaration of a State of Emergency.

[ZFT]

What load of rubbish.

Thailand on 'most dangerous' list for travellers


Thailand has made the list of the Top 20 Most Dangerous Places as compiled by the Telegraph newspaper of London.
The latest edition of the list puts Thailand as the seventh most-dangerous spot for travellers behind Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya, South Africa, Somalia and Sudan. Thailand is said to be more dangerous than Colombia and Haiti at the moment.
It justifies the Thai spot on the list because of "major political demonstrations and a temporary state of emergency" at the two Bangkok airports.
It also cites the continuing demonstrations around Government House, the Cambodian-Thai fighting on the border, and "civil unrest and frequent attacks" in the deep South.
The British "Foreign Office advises against all but essential travel to these areas," the newspaper said.

.

[GlueBall]

ASIA Region in chaos as air links severed :=

Asia is not in chaos. All air traffic is normal, except for BKK and DMK airports.

[B747-800]

we explored yesterday the possibility of operating an A330 into VTBU and decided against it. guess our pax will have to go to Phuket International Airport as we'll plan for a flight tomorrow there to "rescue" them.

haven't been for a long time in phuket..........anything special to watch out for?

[ZFT]

Was there yesterday. Same tourist junk and too many low end tourists. Much quieter than usual for this time of year and quite cool at night.

[Thaihawk]

This airport is now receiving some 50+ flights per day.The terminal area is total chaos.

As of 09.00 UTC today the ramp was full,with further aircraft waiting on the taxyways for parking places and further aircraft holding overhead as there was nowhere for them to go once they had landed.

More and more airlines are coming here as each day passes.

Turn round times are very long,with for example MH784/785 (A330)today being on the ground for over 6 hours.

Military security has been heightened to forstall any action from the PAD.

[Oftenfly]

Thai newspaper The Nation reports today (Monday 1st December) that "Airports of Thailand (AOT), the operator of Suvarnabhumi Airport, yesterday gave the green light to Thai Airways International and other airlines to remove a total of 88 aircraft grounded since last Tuesday." You can find the full story here:

Stranded aircrafts allowed to leave - Nationmultimedia.com (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/01/politics/politics_30089835.php)

[TG345]

As a "vitctim" of the current shutdown in BKK, I am wondering what are the implications, if any, for TG's slots at LHR. As these are granted on a "use or lose" basis, does there come a point after which the non-arrival of TG flights places these slots in jeopardy?

[xtypeman]

If the airline has canceled the slots prior to the operation then there is no problem. However if a few miss the net then it gets close to the 80% rule. Depends how alert the schedulers are.

Xtype

[raffele]

I'm thinking there is a chance that whoever controls the slots at LHR and other airports on a route to/from/via Thailand that when it comes to allocating slots again they might be sympathetic. After all - you can't use the slots if your aircraft are grounded through no fault of the airline

[learjet50]

i have relative in Thailand at the moment.

He was to have returned to the UK last Friday 29th with EK via Dubai

I have today had a text to say he is flying from Chang Mai with EK

Have they now re routed BKK to Chang Mia ??

[raffele]

I think Chang Mai is the military base which has been temporarily authorised for civilian expatriation. It's a very limited operation because it's a small base.

The BKK airport operator managed to strike a deal with the protestors to allow up to about 90 planes grounded at BKK to be removed and placed elsewhere for expatriation flights. Some have gone to smaller airports around the country, like Phuket.

[doug7363]

Chaing Mai is Thailands 2rd major provincial airport behind only Phuket and regularly takes international flights while there are military operations is is primarly a civil airport

[B747-800]

we flew two rescue flights y'day: phuket and chiang mai. starting today thailand (except for phuket) is off for us and will be for so for the near future.

there are rumors that the protests will stop on dec. 6 because of H.E. King's b-day, any confirmation or rumors on this?

btw, several factories in SEA have closed temporary shop because they can't receive the materials from thailand. the impact will be felt heavy starting this week.

guess thailand is going the direction of a "banana republic". it looks like an eternal impass: PAD wants government to resign, government doesn't want to resign, police and army in no mood to clear the people out of the terminal. what's next? chaos!:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[ZFT]

oldtora,

What a stupid comment. 100,000s of pax stranded, potential millions of SE Asian jobs at risk and you think it's an inconvenience!

[crewmeal]

I see on airliners.net that AF/KLM have sent rescue flights via Phuket to rescue the stranded Nationals from France and Holland. What are BA doing to rescue the Brits stranded out there?

[ZFT]

This.

British Airways is urging its customers to call the local number 02 627 1701 to register their details, as the airline is finding ways to repatriate them from Bangkok.

The airline said in a statement issued on Tuesday December 2nd that it is working with the oneworld alliance partner, Qantas, to explore a number of options to help the airline's customers to leave Thailand. It is also making preparations for when it is able to fly back in to Bangkok airport.

"In the event that we are able to offer relief flights or we are given clearance to resume flights, we will contact all customers who have registered with us in order to rebook them onto services.

We can understand how frustrating the circumstances are and would ask our customers to bear with us. Unfortunately, the situation is outside our control but we are doing all we can to help customers who have been affected," the airline said.

BA customers can contac British Airways in the UK via phone number 00 44 191 490 7901. The office is open everyday from 6am to 8pm UK (GMT) time.
The Nation 2nd Dec 08

[crewmeal]

In other words SFA

BBC NEWS | UK | Bangkok Britons wait for a way out (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7758679.stm)


Thailand: Britons Claim German Tourists Given Priority On Few Flights Out Of Bangkok Airport | World News | Sky News (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Thailand-Britons-Claim-German-Tourists-Given-Priority-On-Few-Flights-Out-Of-Bangkok-Airport/Article/200812115169548?lpos=World_News_Article_Related_Content_Regi on_1&lid=ARTICLE_15169548_Thailand%3A_Britons_Claim_German_Touris ts_Given_Priority_On_Few_Flights_Out_Of_Bangkok_Airport)

[ZFT]

Just reported here. Hopefully the beginning of the end of this saga.

Suvarnabhumi to welcome incoming flights (BangkokPost.com) - The People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) on Tuesday accepted the Airports of Thailand (AOT)’s demand to allow incoming flights to use Suvarnabhumi airport after the Constitution Court dissolved the People Power, Chart Thai and Matchimathipataya parties on charges of electoral fraud.
The first incoming flight to the international airport is expected to be within 24 hours.

[raffele]

Breaking news: BBC NEWS | World | Asia-Pacific | Thai airport protests called off (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7760592.stm)

Basically, following the dissolution of the ruling parties, the PAD has agreed to end the protest and blockades at the Bangkok airports. Passenger flights could resume tomorrow, but the airports could take up to two weeks to reopen fully

Thankfully an end to this dreadful saga for those stranded by it

[tbavprof]

Don't start counting the chickens, yet.

The full PAD leadership has not met and approved calling off the protest yet.
Although there's an agreement to allow cargo flights, AoT is still saying that BKK won't open for SLF's until the 15th.
No damage assessments have been done, but the security cameras on the field have been destroyed. And PAD took the control tower with pipes and clubs in hand.
The field still has to be re-certified.
PAD's aims were not Somchai's resignation. This past summer, they claimed they would protest until Samak resigned. The court tossed him out for accepting $400 expense reimbursement for a cooking show he hosted.
PAD continued the protest after he left, and then said they would protest until Somchai resigned. Once again, a court tossed out the sitting PM.
The government party knew about the likely outcome of this court case for months, and have prepared for it. The party name and some of the faces will change, but the core of the government will remain the same as it was before the coup in 2006.
Don't expect the PAD to stop protesting. In both cases, the courts did exactly as the PAD wanted, but the protests continued, with no concern as to what damage is done to the country, and even with foreknowledge of the likely outcome of the court cases.
The alleged agreement allows for a continued PAD protest presence on the airport grounds, and jointly operated (PAD and AoT) checkpoints outside and inside the airport. Sort of like the Somali Maritime Customs and Ransom ministry.I wouldn't hold my breathe that it will be back to normal soon, or would stay that way for any length of time.

[vitamin B]

Latest news is BKK will open for outbound flights at 2359 local time Thursday in time for HM's birthday on 5th Dec

Vitamin B

[lasernigel]

As tbavprof says in his post don't be suprised if the re-opening takes a bit of time.
Following this link has the opinion of the Acting president of the AOT.
Bangkok Post | General news | Airports cannot be reopened quickly (http://www.bangkokpost.com/021208_News/02Dec2008_news03.php)

[ZFT]

The alleged agreement allows for a continued PAD protest presence on the airport grounds, and jointly operated (PAD and AoT) checkpoints outside and inside the airport. Sort of like the Somali Maritime Customs and Ransom ministry.


This was reported here earlier by the AOT. If true, then this saga is anything but over.
I for one would never allow these mercenary thugs to check me and I doubt I'm in a minority of 1 here.
It really does seem that this present administration has lost all control.

[B747-800]

Quote:
The alleged agreement allows for a continued PAD protest presence on the airport grounds, and jointly operated (PAD and AoT) checkpoints outside and inside the airport. Sort of like the Somali Maritime Customs and Ransom ministry.
This was reported here earlier by the AOT. If true, then this saga is anything but over.
I for one would never allow these mercenary thugs to check me and I doubt I'm in a minority of 1 here.
It really does seem that this present administration has lost all control.

A reason more why we are still not planning to fly there for the time being!

[tbavprof]

Thai Airways Flights from U-Tapao not Allowed Direct to LAX (http://www.bangkokpost.com/031208_News/03Dec2008_news06.php)

Thai Airways International flights bound for Los Angeles from U-tapao are being forced to undergo thorough security checks at another airport, adding three hours to the flight time.

The extra inconvenience for passengers came after an announcement by US security authorities banning international flights going direct from U-tapao airport to the United States.
Hard to believe that TSA will lift this ban for BKK without its own inspection after re-opening. Wouldn't be surprised if EASA did the same.

[tbavprof]

But at NRT you have to pass through mini-pax screening before you're back down on the concourse for the food. Of course, that means your carry-on duty-free bottles are confiscated.:{

[stickyb]

See, this was not such a big deal. It is resolving itself, and the good-natured pax can have an extra holiday in Thailand or Penang. :cool:

I regret that you are sadly mis-informed. Anyone familiar with Thai politics will realise that the PAD have not won any victory whatsoever. The outcome of the court case that deposed PM Somchai was always a foregone conclusion, and the decision by PAD to withdraw from the airport is more of a face-saving exercise given their growing unpopularity and the forthcoming King's birthday.

When the next PM is appointed, unless some other legal trick is performed, it will still be from among the ranks of Thaksin cronies that the PAD object to so much. So, watch out for the re-invasion of the airport, maybe next week.

My advice would be to tread very cautiously for a while. I have no idea who B747-800 work for, but the idea seems sensible

[ZFT]

Sadly mis-informed is too polite!

You are all too correct with your assessment. This saga is far from over. However, next time the silent majority won't be so silent. Too many 'normal' people have seen their livelihoods go down the tube.

The opposing factions have done far too much damage for this country to recover from and there will be retribution if they attempt another airport occupation or anything similar.

The opposing elite have a lot to answer for.

[harrogate]

You'd have thought Thailand doesn't want tourists to visit any more.

For anyone who's familiar with Thailand and who travels there often, you might be interested by the news that amid all the furore of the last 9 days, the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs has tweaked the visa exemption rule again.

Although it looks like you'll still be granted 30 visa exempt days when you arrive on a flight from beyond the SE Asia region (subject to the token 'proof of onward travel within 30 day condition' that they rarely enforce anyway), if you're arriving from a country in the SE Asia region - be it by air, sea or land - then you'll only now be given 15 visa exempt days at a time.

Typically vague. The bit about countries in the SE Asia region was initially thought by those of us who discovered this change to mean neighbouring countries, but seemingly folks have only been given 15 day stamps when flying into Thailand without visas from Vietnam and Indonesia, so it seems they're not just limiting it to their immediate neighbours.

The up-side is that there's no mention in the new rules of the '90 in 180' day cap for visa exemptions, so it looks like they're returning to the good old days of unlimited border runs, albeit meaning you now have to go twice a month instead of just once.

More hassle for those dive shop workers down on the islands. Bummer.

Folks are already reporting that all land borders and airports are now abiding by these rules, so it's a cert. There was absolutely no forewarning for those people who are travelling there now or in the near future who's holiday plans could be affected by this change.

Another bullet in the foot.

[B747-800]

but interesting:

Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Kingdom of Thailand (http://www.mfa.go.th/web/2482.php?id=2490)

TOURIST VISA EXEMPTION
- According to the Interior Ministerial Announcements dated 1 October B.E. 2545 (2002), 20 December B.E. 2545 (2002), 18 October B.E. 2547 (2004) and 6 May B.E. 2548 (2005), passport holders from 40 countries and 1 special administrative region – Hong Kong SAR – are not required to obtain a visa when entering Thailand for tourism purposes and will be permitted to stay in the Kingdom for a period of not exceeding 30 days on each visit. Foreigners who enter the Kingdom under the Tourist Visa Exemption category may re-enter and stay in Thailand for a cumulative duration of stay of not exceeding 90 days within any 6-month period from the date of first entry.

for "tourist" workers a blow in their face!

[harrogate]

Apologies.

The officially translated new rules aren't up on the website yet.

However, a chap we know has done us an initial translation...

"A person holding a passport or other paper instead of a passport that has a citizenship that the Minister of State decreed in agreement with the Board of Ministers to let come into the Kingdom for a temporary period in order to tour according to the law and ordinances methodology and conditions of examination as "exempt" and to change the type of examination giving a stamp (year of) 2545 (day of) 16 of August (year of) 2545 Article 13)3) gives permission to enter the Kingom many times with a permision to stay in the Kingdom each time not more than 30 days counting from the day of entry into the Kingdom except that for an entry into the Kingdom by way of entry from a neighboring country the permission granted to stay in the Kingdom each time will not exceed 15 day counting from the day of entry into the Kingdom."

The 90 day in 6 month limit is no longer mentioned (the bit in red on the previous post), which is great. They only introduced that particular rule early last year and it's been nothing but hassle for their own immigration people because they had to sift through date stamps in cluttered passports and try to count up the total number of days a person spent in the country.

Those 90 days were counted on a cumulative basis, so whereas you were stamped in for 30 days, if you left again after, say, 4 days you did not lose the other 26 days. They would be held over, unlike when you leave having entered on a tourist visa where you lost any of your unused 60 days.

The relevance to this website is that it's probably gonna affect ground procedures for airlines in SE Asia countries that serve Thailand. They may require passengers to show their visas before boarding if they don't have proof of departure for within 15 days of arriving. Depends how vigourously the Thais will enforce the proof of departure rule (if at all).

I'll pop back on here when the official translation is up.

[ZFT]

B747-800

These regs have been in place for at least 2 years IIRC.

harrogate,

These new regs appear to be a way of deterring the illegal workers/visa overstayers doing visa runs to Laos, Malaysia, Cambodia and Burma. Can't see any impact on local tourists as ASEAN nations do not require visas and foreign tourists tend to enter from outside of these countries.

[harrogate]

ZFT

You only need to look at the gripes of the folks on independent travel websites already to see the effect it's having. Yes, most tourists enter Thailand by air from beyond the region, but you cannot underestimate the sheer amount of re-entries these people make to Thailand. Thailand has traditionally been a hub for exploring the region, but it seems to be willingly shedding this role now, which is a big mistake.

As you probably know, lots of western travellers and gapyear kids (a sizeable section of Thailand's core tourist base) arrive in the region at Bangkok and then head out around the neighbouring countries to the east, before heading back into Thailand by air or land. Some fly on from Bangkok, and others work their way down to Malaysia, Singapore and occasionally Indonesia.

The new 15 day rule is forcing them to compress their time in Thailand on their re-entry. Getting multi-entry visas is the alternative, but they're often regarded as expensive by this kind of traveller and crucially they've also got a short activation period, so they're not particularly flexible.

Given the rapid rise in the cost of travelling in Thailand for Brits, Aussies and Europeans because of the naff exchange rates at present, added to the probably ill-informed but nonetheless very real fear that has been created by the PAD protests, Thailand is becoming a less attractive proposition. People are openly put off when you look around these travel websites.

The low cost terminals at KL and Singapore, coupled with their relatively slack visa requirements and the longhaul and Australian low cost links that are now starting to grow from these 2 airports, make them an ever appealing proposition over Bangkok.

The travel industry has been seriously looking into growing the offering and frequency for alternatives to Bangkok recently (which the PAD protest has justified), and I honestly think that Thailand will suffer because of the visa exemption change.

You're right that tourists aren't the target for these changes, but yet again the Thai government has pushed through an ill-conceived raft of changes with repercussions that they clearly haven't thought through properly.

I guarantee that next year will be a much worse year for tourism in Thailand than it need be. They're already gonna have a stinker because of the recession and the PAD protests, but to now restrict the options of a key section of their tourist base is just plain stupid. These tourists I'm talking about will spend less time in the country, of that there is no doubt. Not all of them are big spenders, but sheer numbers make them significant. The search is on for the Thai alternative while Thailand does nothing to defend its reputation as the focal point of the region.

It's about time Thailand introduced a multi-entry fixed term tourist visa, or pushed ahead with the plans for a regional visa with their neighbours.

[stickyb]

It appears that these new regs may be designed to help airlines.

It seems you only get 15 days if entry by overland, but 30 days if by air.

In other words, come and stay as long as you like (no 90 in 180 rule) but you must make a flight every 30 days.

Good for business!

[harrogate]

I've already mentioned that the translation we have says that it's only 30 days for longhaul arrivals.

It appears that there's an explicit mention in the new rules that says all modes of entry from countries within the region will only get you 15 days - even air arrivals.

So to get 30 days each time, you'll need to arrive from a longhaul destination. Not sure how the low cost carriers in the region are gonna receive this. It's bad news for them.

You already got 30 days when you flew into Thailand from within the region, but now they're saying you'll only get 15 days when entering by air or land from a neighbouring country. Given the ever-growing costs of flying with the low cost carriers in the region when compared to the overland alternatives (which are good and efficient, on the whole), then it doesn't take a genius to work out that flying gives you no advantage and will cost you more.

If the translation we've been looking at is right, then this is most definitely not good news for regional carriers. The change doesn't affect longhaul operators at all.

From what I know about Thai immigration in recent years, this looks like a bungled attempt at trying to funnel people through airports rather than land borders. The 15 day allocation for air travellers arriving from within the region scuppers the plan though. I wouldn't be surprised if they either amended the rules for regional flights and granted 30 days for all flight arrivals, or just did their usual trick and didn't enforce the rules for air arrivals, even though on paper the rule still stands.

Clarity is not something they do well at all.

[ZFT]

harrogate,

Yes, you are correct. I had not considered roving tourists.

[Thaimike]

I have been living and working in Thailand for several months now and have been watching this scenario develop.Opinions are welcome from both pro & anti gov supporters there's plenty of ammo for both camps to dine out on.Having a perpetual corrupt government that bleeds a country dry dosen't help any more than protesters closing the main a/ports to try to bring change.Thailand like any country is feeling the big "C"..credit crunch!!I have local Thai friends who have businesses in tourist hot spots and have said already this year it is noticeably down on previous years due to the recession, so much so that a lot of them are closing down as they could not winter out the quiet period.I was down in Hua Hin the other day just for a short break and you could count the number of tourists on one hand, locals said it would normally be bustling by now, also the number of premises empty and up for rent is showing a grim but real picture. So be warned if you dare venture this far east for a holiday this year or next, don't think for a second that you will get a cheap deal when you land to help offset an expensive flight, you will be welcomed with open arms of course and they will greet you with a "sawadee" then they will decend on you quicker than a starving mosquito and relieve you of your hard earned cash quicker than Dick Turpin..but he at least had the good grace to wear a mask!!Pale faces you have been warned!!

[harrogate]

Having seen a better translation of the new visa exemption rule (the official translation is still not available, which is disgusting considering the rules are now in force at all borders and ports and these changes are f*cking up the holidays of people arriving in the country as we speak), it appears that passengers arriving on all flights into Thailand - not just longhaul flights - are still eligible for the 30 day visa exemption (subject to the proof of onward travel within 30 days clause, which probably still won't be enforced anyways).

So it may mean that people wishing to leave and re-enter Thailand to get another visa exemption stamp will consider taking a return low cost flight to a neighbouring country now, rather than doing overland border runs, because all land border entries made without visas will only get you 15 visa exempt days at a time.

The ever-growing price of flights with the likes of Air Asia and Tiger will probably just make people think that getting a £28 tourist visa is the best option though.

I still think it's bad for the Thai tourist industry. Considering the ever-increasing cost of travelling within the region as a whole, the cost of short notice bookings even with low cost carriers compared to overland travel options, and the relative flexibility offered by the tourist visa and overland modes of transport as opposed to strict flight timings from a limited number of airports, I just think people will either continue to use land borders and curtail their time in Thailand, or buy visas and carry on crossing at land borders. The cost of the visa and overland travel is still a much cheaper and more flexible option than booking a return flight. The visa has the added advantage of permitting folks to stay for 60 days (and extend to 90 for a fee), as opposed to the 30 days offered by the visa exemption.

I don't see longhaul operators being affected much by this particular change (although travel to Thailand in general is gonna be hurt by the other things that have happened recently), but the low cost carriers are going to feel it I think. The continuation of the 30 day visa exemption rule for flights might be seen by savvy travellers as a ploy to get them to use airlines, but with the costs of travel in the region soaring I think more and more people are already seeing shorthaul flights within the region as being a luxury that they want to trim out in order to save on costs.

People scoff at the backpacker crowd, but they are undisputably the biggest tourist revenue generators in Thailand (it's official - the Thai government stats are available online if anyone's interested, and they are surprisingly comprehensive). As mentioned before, many of them use Thailand as a hub for travelling within the region, and between them they make hundreds and thousands of overland border crossings each year. You can't understimate their input into the Thai economy.

In recent years the search has been on amongst travellers and holidaymakers for the 'new Thailand', and this move won't help Thailand's plight at all. As air links to its neighbouring countries improve and drop in price, Thailand will suffer. People are already turning their backs on Thailand anyway, and tweaking the border rules like this has a further adverse effect. Thailand is gonna hurt badly soon anyway, considering they are an export economy that relies heavily on the US for trade.

This rule change risks making tourists resent travelling to Thailand, and is certainly already pissing off a large section of its key tourism base. I don't think it will benefit the regional airlines one bit.

There's a bit of snobbery going on surrounding this issue. Some folks are saying that the change to the visa exemption rule is a good thing, because it forces people to get the 'correct documentation' (i.e. visas) together before travelling to Thailand. There seems to be an ill conceived argument that getting visa exemptions is somehow an underhand thing to do. It's not. That's nonsense. Entering a country on a visa exemption is obviously completely legitimate by design. Even leaving and re-entering multiple times to continue to take advantage of the benefits of it is perfectly legitimate too. Some people seem to suggest that 'playing the system' like this is deviant. It's not. It is the system - not an abuse of it. Visa exemptions exist for that very reason - to make certain people exempt from having to get a visa. The cap on the amount of days you can spend in Thailand under the visa exemption rule ensures that the system cannot be abused.

[Thaimike]

Quite correct Harrogate in what you say, but which ever way you play the visa rule will depend very much on what your intentions are when your down here, but I fear it will still put a lot of potential travellers off coming to Thailand. Seasoned backpackers are a canny lot and will be looking for another hub to use which will give them better service and at a more desirable cost. Thailand has I think for the time being lost it's way and to a certain extent lost it's unique appeal. The once must see jewel in the east has let it's crown slip. The usual coastal resorts have milked the trailer trash tourist to death and have nothing more to offer than another bar and a "short time sir"The more seasoned traveller looking for a cultural holiday can find that elsewhere in the surrounding countries without all the problems of Thailand in the back of their minds. Thailand is hurting right now and next year it will get a lot worse, the country is at the beginning of a credit crisis which has yet only one way to go and that is down hill, with the tourism trade on the brink of collapse thousands of thais will be out of work, revenue will take a huge blow and that will only add further problems to a government already in serious trouble itself. I'm not sure if it will survive in the short term, quick thinking strong policies and strong leadership are required at the moment to offset a collapse.. unfortunately all sadly lacking at the moment!!

[stickyb]

Please excuse me if this is thread drift, but for anyone wanting to know more about the problems in Thailand there is an excellent article in the Economist

Thailand, its king and its crisis | A right royal mess | The Economist (http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displayStory.cfm?story_id=12724800&source=hptextfeature)

[Thaimike]

Sorry off-thread again I know but....Just as a point of interest the King has on every anniversary of his birthday made a public address to the people of Thailand, not missing a single year in 60+yrs of his reign, however yesterday he was said to be suffering from a throat problem and feeling a little sick and so unable to make his usual speach this year.This coming from his son the crown prince must be a little worrying for the people considering the affection that they have for the king and monarchy in general. This coupled with his abscence during the political crisis must be more than a little disconscerting!!

[Seljuk22]

I think because of this crisis TG will reduce frequencies :eek:

http://airlineroute.*************/2008/12/additional-changes-to-thai-new-0809.html

http://airlineroute.*************/2008/12/thai-new-200809-winter-network-as-of.html

[reynoldsno1]

[QUOTE] /The cost of the visa and overland travel is still a much cheaper and more flexible option than booking a return flight. The visa has the added advantage of permitting folks to stay for 60 days (and extend to 90 for a fee), as opposed to the 30 days offered by the visa exemption.[QUOTE]

The last time I did this, it made no difference - I still got a 30 day stamp on arrival - despite protests from mrsr1 (Thai). So it was a waste of time & money. Am leaving again in a couple of weeks - staying for 40 days, so will do an overland run at Mae Sai - will let you know how it goes...

[Thaimike]

I am married to a Thai, live in Thailand and have our own business in Thailand. I have a one year multi-entry visa issued in London, when you enter Thailand they will only grant you a stay of 90 days, then you have to do a border run for a passport stamp for another 90 days!! Where's the logic in that.. other than it's a bl**dy good money making scheme for the immigration/government services, you also have the added expense of having to purchase a visa for the country you are entering only to immediately turn around and pay a re-entry fee to come back in all with a smile on your face!! Surely one year should mean one year?? You don't hear of people entering the UK with a visa already issued for an extended period only to be told you have to exit and re-enter within the expiry date on numerous occasions.

[reynoldsno1]

Arrived a few days ago with a visa - queued in the Thai passport line, and lo! got a 60 day permit !!

Qantas were terrible - 2 hour delay in NZ due to "sudden" notherly wind change, and consequential "redistribution of freight and baggage" on the 737 WLG-SYD. Missed the connection, but rebooked on Emirates flight the same night (good) and arrived in BKK 2 hours late but no baggage (despite assurance). Bags arrived 24 hours later... no compensation offered, though we had to buy underwear etc.... :ugh: