Ireland to England in a R22

[R44-pilot]

Hi Fella's (and any Lady's)

I was wondering if any of you could give me any pointers etc on flying a R22 from Ireland back to England?

Have any of you done it before etc? Anything heads up I cold use etc....

Obviously i'll be taking a little life raft to keep the CAA happy etc.

Oh and I HATE water! lol :ok:

Would appreciate any tips.

Thanks

Lou:confused:

[206Fan]

Ehhh is there no Raven II's about you can take over? The 22 wouldn't be my choice at this time of year to ferry across the irish sea!

[R44-pilot]

LOL, no me either!

It's bringing it back to the England to it's new home.

Yeah a Clipper 2 would be much nicer but unfortunatly not possible.....

But thanks for filling me with so much confidence! :ok::ugh:

[HillerBee]

Just fly from Rosslaire to Haverdfordwest, probably 30 min or less with the wind from the west. Make sure you have a reasonable ceiling and good visibility so you can see the other side when you're at 2000 ft.

Remember the engine doesn't know it's over water.

The only thing you need is a life-vest, now as another precaution I would consider an immersion suit, if it goes wrong a life-vest alone won't help you at all in the cold water of the Irish Channel.

[R44-pilot]

Crikey! Pilot plus 1 pas, life jackets, immersion suits, rafts, fuel...... Better not eat breakfast ey!

You guys did read the title right?? It's an R22! lol only joking, I know, I know, i'm gonna die!! :{

[Whirlygig]

No, you're only gonna die if the engine fails over the water! :} If the engine fails at any other time, you only might die or be seriously injured!! :p

Are we helping here? :)

Cheers

Whirls

[Dragpin]

You would be better off taking another pilot who has done the trip a few times rather than another passenger. Immersion suits is a very good idea and a PLB.

[Hughes500]

How about keeping it in Ireland, there are enough R22's spoiling the sky over here already

[Vertical T/O]

No, you're only gonna die if the engine fails over the water! http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif If the engine fails at any other time, you only might die or be seriously injured!! http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Are we helping here? http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

Cheers

Whirls


What?????? You gonna Die if the engine fails over water????????? Bull****!!!!!!

Your gonna die if you dont do the right thing if engine fails over water.

[Whirlygig]

Try saying, "ha ha very funny!" Vertical T/O!! :\

So why not help the original poster and explain the "right" thing in an R22 over the irish Channel!!

Cheers

Whirls

[R44-pilot]

Thanks for all the great advice fellas............ :ugh:

Yes it's only serious if the engine fails..... If it was any other time of year I would much prefer a engine failure over water than land in a 22, I know i'm gonna get....well if you auto right you'll be fine.....blah blah blah.... To be honest you can practice engine off's day in day out, but it all depends what actually happens when it does go for real.... and especially whats below, all very well having lots of fields in the UK, but go find one that is'nt ploughed this time of year..... there few and far between!

If it was lovely sunshine I'd much rather loose a 22 to the sea than rolling it on a field or wires etc... Obviously it's the damn water temp thats the problem with the Irish sea! you'd nearly be dead before you drowned!

I'll look into the options, maybe getting it shipped....

But ya know some times engines don't stop! :rolleyes: hehe.

Oh and MR HUGHES 500, I know theres a few 22's about the UK but we're not all fortunate enough to be flying the ferrai of the skys! I'd like to fly a 500 more than any other ship in the world! Hell i'd just like ago in one! It was that helicopter that got me hooked on the damn things! Larry Hagmens, Deadly Encounter film, awesome! :ok:

[pilotmike]

Don't be too put off by everyone. Just be aware of the risks and take sensible precautions. I delivered a 44 from Weston, near Dublin, to Suffolk via Liverpool last December for a friend. It wasn't a problem - other than the upset it has apparently caused on another thread through being advertised on ebay! I wore both a drysuit and a lifejacket for the crossing.

Check your PMs.

[Floppy Link]

Fly to Larne in Norn Iron,
turn east, follow the ferries across the North Channel (short water crossing)
Keep going east to Carlisle
You're now in England.

Sorted :ok:

[Brilliant Stuff]

Maybe get the company frequency of the rig aircraft which ply those waters so they can send you a fast response rescue dinghy.

Wear loads of clothes, preferably ones which keep you dry.

Travel high.

[OffshoreHeli]

Put it on a trailer and go by ferry. Ha
:ok:

[22clipper]

Just watch yourself over large bodies of water on overcast days squire, once ocean & sky merge to a gray continuum you got problems. I kinda lost the horizon over lake Eyre once, much scarier than all the horror stories I heard about dunkings.

[RINKER]

R22 Clipper wth you on that one , done quite a few water crossings now.No scary moments yet but could have got into that trap if it weren't for a good friend Atpl h . He came with me on a few trips and of course my first one.On that trip as I lifted from a coastal airport and coasted out I was climbing merrily on a nice but hazy day as I passed 1000ft he said " that's high enough" , with respect I never doubted his wisdom but always wanted to know the reason . I replied I'd like to go higher in case it all goes quiet, to which he said," if the engine quits your going in the water anyway so this is high enough to sort that out but if you continue climbing with this haze you will loose a good horizon for reference , now which do you think is more likely to happen? ". Served me well in later flights especially in slightly worse conditions too.

[philbky]

The most sensible suggestion has been made by Floppy Link. For the extra miles over land and fuel burn over Ireland and the UK, you get a maximum distance from land of 22 miles and you would be operating in a much more easily searched area than any other alternative if everything goes tits up.

[Hughes500]

Seriously
Having been dunked and thrown off a boat in a F10 gale in the Mil for sea survival think long and hard about what you wear and take
Essential is an emersion suit with warm clothing underneath
ELT
Life jacket
Liferaft

Most will laugh at this, I can assure you having spent 1 hour off Plymouth in the sea with water temp of 5degrees the sea is an unfunny place to survive.
I do a lot of windsurfing this time of year and wear a 5mm wet suit. Still get cold after a couple of hours. Normal clothing in the Irish Sea probably 30 mins at most before hyperthemia and death.
Choose the shortest distance across, check the weather, very difficult to make out an horizon in grey cloud, grey sea if you cant see the land.
Most of all enjoy it and the last tip, the ac will sound different when you coast out, nothing wrong with it just your hightened senses.

[Too Old To Die Young]

Is it just Floppy Link and myself with any sence. Take the shortest sea crossing you can. Donaghadee to Port Patrick about 10 mins, on to Carlisle then the world is your oyster.

[philbky]

Possibly, but I have sense, see reply #18

[Hobbit]

Floppy Link is absolutely correct. I've done the trip lots of times in a Gazelle and the reassuring sight of a ferry is a tonic. For those who like the idea of ditching try the dunker and dinghy training. Even when fully equiped by Her Majesty sea survival is a daunting business.

[CarryOnCopter]

Not to dramatic unless something goes wrong which the answers are in the previous post's.

As it's from Ireland go from Carnsor Point on the SE corner of Ireland direct to Haverford West, have done this many times in an R22, about half an hour as posted before.

Apart from all that's gone before do try and get high for radio reception, get's a bit lonely otherwise, if this does happen you can try getting a relay from another aircraft or check in with 121.5 because they seem to be able to get to parts others can't reach, hmm.

Don't think it is all over when you coast in if you are going inland, wx, wx, wx.

Safe trip.

Did I mention wx?

[500e]

Follow the Cat, you could try deck landing.:E
http://www.aidan.co.uk/lg/NiBPandOCat7Y17.jpg

Life Jacket, immersion suit and Epirb for me!! been in the water, went overboard from boat, with auto inflate life jacket (Auto inflate a no no in helio\plane) floated around for 20 minutes, would not recommend.

[RavenII]

I can't hear that stupid "the heli doesn't know if you are over water..." line anymore.

Fact is: If that engine quits on you over the channel, it will take SAR quite a while to get you out. The water is cold and the waves are not exactly low.

If you want to take that chance, enjoy your flight!

[CarryOnCopter]

Well you could have done it by now, all doom and gloom from most. Beg, borrow, steal survival kit, make your plan, check wx suitable, go.

Wx is your number one, did I mention that before??

[CVR]

Just book a ferry ticket, bring the wheels and roll it up the ramp. sit back and enjoy the view, then roll it off the other side. I did it back in the DEC of 88, the weather was crap and i needed to get home. It takes up less space than a car and trailer. I can still see the look on their faces when i landed at the port, and a good one for the bar stool too........:D


Fly Safe and Enjoy

[[email protected]]

Talk nicely to the ferry companies, they all have nice big landing areas on top of the boats, especially the Fast Cat - get on it just as it leaves, wait until you are the other side, take off and coast in. Voila - sea crossing in an R22 without the exposure (unless of cousre the ferry sinks):)

Ah, one problem - the fast cat might exceed the Vne for an R22:)

[500e]

Good thought, Crab, there is always something I forget:E.

[lotusexige]

I heard a variation on this story some years back. Someone from the UK had bought a 22 in Ireland and the deal was to include delivery to the UK. When the aircraft arrived with both vendors aboard the guy who had bought it noticed that they did not even have a life jacket between them. When he enquired they told himthat they had simply flown it to the docks and pushed it onto the ferry and reversed the procedure on arrival.

[R44-pilot]

LOL, love the idea of pushing it on a ferry with it's wheels! It could be possible if you were good enough friends with port managers or what ever they are.....

Landing on a CAT? don't think i'd have the minerals, even it it was moored up!

I think the ferry routes has to be the best idea, at least they can pluck our cold limp bodys out if we crash near them!

Still, it's been offered to be delivered so I may not need to do the trip anyway, will let everyone know if we do though..........

Thanks for the good suggestions and thanks for the others.... they made me laugh. :ok:

[SASless]

Just carry a bar of soap.....no body takes saltwater baths!;)

[206 jock]

Here's how one guy did it from the USA...offered to me as an option on a RoRo, but I ended up containerising mine.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/flyingsniffer/DSC00440.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/flyingsniffer/DSC00441.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/flyingsniffer/DSC00446.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/flyingsniffer/DSC00457.jpg

The RoRo was eye-poppingly expensive, though not as expensive as the guy who opted to airfreight a Bell 430 to Europe in December last year to make sure he got it here before the Danish VAT window closed....and then they extended the availability!

For Chrissakes, I hope they fly the damn R22 across! Can anyone quote the last time an R22 had a mid-flight engine failure without some operator-induced screw up being a factor. For sure, do a bloody good A check before you set out, but do it for the adventure!

[helimutt]

Ok look, I need some night hours, spend lots of time flying over water anyway. Tell you what, you pay for my airfare over there and i'll fly it back for you one night. I have my own survival suit and not really bothered about the water bit anymore. :ok:

[chopjock]

how is it possible to fly a Robo over the Irish sea at night? What do you use for visual references?
Last time I did it (in a 500)I was feet wet for 45 mins in daylight.

[Bladecrack]

Ok look, I need some night hours, spend lots of time flying over water anyway. Tell you what, you pay for my airfare over there and i'll fly it back for you one night. I have my own survival suit and not really bothered about the water bit anymore.

Are you serious Helimutt? If so, you must be pretty desperate for night hours.. I fly an IFR twin (float equipped with raft ELTs and Lifejackets) across the North Channel (Irish Sea) several times a week, day and night and I wouldn't even consider doing a night crossing in an R22 at this time of year.

Lately the freezing level has been between 1000 & 2000ft, and while the METARS for say, Belfast and Prestwick can on occasion seem quite good, I often encounter low cloud, mist, rain showers, turbulence etc, over the sea, meaning I have to go IMC for periods. If you go low level you will have no comms with any ground stations, and little chance of a visual horizon at night. It sounds highly risky to me.

BC

[helimutt]

I also get to fly the old multi eng, IFR equipped, floated, lifejacketed, liferafted type too, but come on! What price adventure??? This would be for kicks man! :E:E:ok:

Bladecrack, any jobs going?;)

[Gordy]

206Jock had the right idea--albeit a little overkill---just land it on your pickup and drive it on the ferry, we used to do it daily to get the thing back to the office in town, R-22 will do the same:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j35/helokat/scan0022.jpg

[bolkow]

Irish helicopters have a pad just a mile from Rosslare off the main wexford road if you wanted to top up before you go, by prior arrangement. Its used for the lighthouse releif chopper.
From rosslare I think you steer 125 degrees and that will take you past tuskar rock for the welsh coast, and then as someone already said haverofrdwest would be the soonest after coasting in, approx 15 or so miles inland.

[bolkow]

Irish ferries actually have a helipad on the deck aft of the funnel, its able to take a sea king I beleive.

[chopjock]

I was stuck at Haverford for two days in bad weather once, waiting for a window to cross the Irish sea. I tried asking the ferry companies and the captains. They refused because of insurance reasons.
Eventually I had to go with the weather as is. I went low level all the way along the ferry route. I buzzed two of them in the rain on the way over.:)

[Tailboom]

Ive done the crossing loads of times in r44's Squirells and once in a R22, I picked up a 25 knot headwind as I coasted out of Cahore point for H-West I'd ran out of positive thoughts by the time I'd got there !!!!!

Seriously though its very straight forward if you need to speak to anyone then you will have to be at least 3000 ft, but its an easy flight and a great adventure if its your first time, take a life jacket, PLB etc and you won't have a problem, just make certain you don't mix up cloud for land !

[MBJ]

Forget the passenger. Small one man dinghy strapped into left seat. Immersion suit and lifejacket. PLB. Lots of fuel. GOOD weather!! Working GPS. Flight Plan. Then cross wherever you like! Dublin-Caernarvon is good because you have an active SAR station on the route at RAF Valley :)

[TRC]

I've deliberately avoided this post, but curiosity has got the better of me - so here's my 2 bobs worth...

There have been lots of suggestions and opinions offered ranging from the downright sensible to the pretty wierd.

The immersion suit with lots of warm stuff underneath is a must, as is the good quality lifejacket (not the self-inflating type) with spray hood. A reliable SARBE/PLB is also a must-have. A dinghy? Well of course.... No mention of floats so far, so I guess that you won't have them.

If you do have to ditch and assuming that you pull off a perfect touch down in a benign sea-state, you have get yourself and your "little life raft to keep the CAA happy etc." out of your helicopter which will have the bouyancy of a punctured crowbar. Have you done a dunking course? If you haven't and it comes to the worst, you will be doing it for the first time for real. Not an ideal arrangement.

Now, we all know that engines can't tell that they're over water, and as you say "But ya know some times engines don't stop!" Engine failure is only one reason why you might end up in the water.

If you have to do this trip, plan for the worst - don't hope for the best. Take the shortest overwater route and only in the best weather.

I did this trip once in a 206 without floats. It was summer, we had the suits, jackets, dinghy, SARBE, flares, you name it. Precisely one mile short of half-way, the engine chip light came on. Conversation dried up rather as we headed for Valley (it wasn't the shortest over water route). We made it, but although the chip was the size of an ants eyelash it could have had a fully legible part number on it for all we knew.

Forget about landing on the ferry, they'll NEVER let you do that.

Good luck, let us know when you've done it.

[Batidora]

TRC has it right but don't forget the ELT (Emergency Transmitter). I have made many cross water trips of +100Nm. I took 4 man life raft, ELT, crash kit (3ltrs water, survival gear, fishing line + hooks etc) all placed on passenger seat attached to life raft. Didn't wear a survival suite, just a life jacket, but I was in the Med in Summer. Would wear one over Irish sea.

The ELT will help SAR find you.

Good luck