Army - Jpa

[Kite Runner]

Concern over Army expenses fraud - Yahoo! News UK (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20081123/tuk-concern-over-army-expenses-fraud-6323e80.html)

'The incoming head of the British Army warned of widespread fraud by officers and soldiers in the economic downturn, in a letter leaked to a newspaper. Lieutenant-General Sir David Richards, who takes over as chief of the general staff in August, expressed his concern that servicemen were pilfering and abusing the Army's joint personnel administration (JPA).'

Could this mean that Dirty Percy is actually Dirty Thieving Percy. Hmmm, wonder if there is an issue with the other Services?http://static.pprune.org/images/icons/mpangel.gif

[dallas]

Army chief warns of officers on fiddle - Times Online (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5213612.ece)

The incoming head of the British Army has warned in a leaked document (http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/fraud2.doc) of widespread fraud by officers and soldiers fiddling allowances and pilfering.
Lieutenant-General Sir David Richards, who will take over as chief of the general staff in August, said troops had been caught exploiting a trust-based payments system by putting in bogus claims for expenses and allowances.
He accused some of his 94,000 men of reacting to the recession by using the system like “a cash machine”.
“I am becoming concerned over the prevalence of fraudulent behaviour as well as what I can at best describe as ‘sharp practice’ and at worst dishonesty,” he said in a letter to key commanders last week.
Previously all claims had to be signed by a senior officer but the joint personnel administration system (JPA) allows soldiers to put in claims via computer. They are checked randomly. “There are soldiers and even some officers who view JPA as a ‘cash machine’ and are processing fraudulent claims in the belief that if caught they will claim ignorance and hope to refund the monies with no further action,” Richards said.
“While this may be an acceptable excuse for a small number of our young soldiers as they develop competence on JPA, it is inexcusable for our commissioned, warrant and noncommissioned officers.”
A defence source said: “Every single sample they have looked at this year has turned up examples of fraud: journeys that never happened, entertainment that isn’t justified. Richards would not be getting involved if this wasn’t serious.”
Other sources said some soldiers and officers felt justified in padding their claims because when the £250m JPA system was introduced in April last year many soldiers and officers were badly underpaid.
Richards accused senior officers of misusing allowances for entertainment and education: “I am concerned about the abuse of allowances, in particular where individuals may not be in clear breach of the rules but are certainly in breach of the spirit or underlying intent.”
A former commander of international forces in Afghanistan, Richards is commander-in-chief UK land forces. He told all commanders to ensure that any claims were properly supervised “to protect the less virtuous from themselves”.
He added: “Petty pilfering of stationery and other commodities is another area that is not only a clear breach of our values and standards but an unnecessary drain on resources that could be better spent looking after our soldiers.” Members of the army are eligible for allowances ranging from £1.50 a day for staying in another barracks to £11,000 per child for boarding school fees if the parent is based abroad.
Officers above lieutenant-colonel are entitled to first-class travel and the use of expensive hotels. All claims must be justified and receipts must be kept for three years, but some like mileage allowance or travel do not require receipts. If a soldier or officer stays with a friend or relative instead of ina hotel, they can claim a “privately arranged rate” of £25 a night.
A senior officer said any soldier caught deliberately making false claims would be court-martialled and could face a dishonourable discharge.

Nothing to do with JPA being an ill-thought out, poorly implemented and badly designed system that inundates the untrained user with unfamiliar options, provides no help to what people can claim, compounded by a hopelessely overloaded remote 'help desk' and non-existent local advisors then? Thought not.

An average lawyer should be able to get all but the very blatent fraudsters off the hook.

[glad rag]

entertainment that isn’t justified.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH:cool:

[GreenKnight121]

Ummm... claiming travel that never occurred has NOTHING to do with any flaws in the system, but EVERYTHING to do with persons making deliberately false claims!

Unless you are proposing that the system is so confusing that it creates false memories of going somewhere they never went?

[PPRuNeUser0211]

GK, have you ever used JPA? Trust me, it's not so much a question of claiming for a journey that never happened, more a question of claiming the incorrect rate (for instance the number of guys that incorrectly select ODR which is twice the mileage rate of normal!), as for the rest of the allowances system, don't even get me started!

[Evalu8ter]

Hmmmm, how about a flat rate per diem, with a varying amount depending on what country you're in? You could call it, I don't know, a "rate" perhaps? Nice and simple, with no arguements or "confusions".

Not to defend those that deliberately set out to embezzle the tax-payer but this does look like a case of the brass back-slapping themselves by introducing JPA/Capped actuals (with obscure advice over what is within ones entitlement) in the hope of shaving £Ms off the T&S budget, and now complaining that savings targets aren't being met. At the same time, they ensure it's first-class all the way with PSOs/ADCs exploiting every loophole quicker than a Herc mate at a check-in desk....

I do wonder if this (along with the disgraceful "perks" nonsense last month) is "shaping the battlefield" for the removal of the CEA.

As for Richards getting involved..I'd of thought that getting his troops out of Snatch landrovers is a better use of his time. Clamping down on T&S and Allowances is not going to solve the chasm in the Departments finances.

[spheroid]

Before you can submit a claim on JPA you need to obtain a Budget control form from your line manager. Once the journey has been approved then you can submit the claim. Without that approval there is no claim. How can you submit a claim without the approval of your line manager?

Previously all claims had to be signed by a senior officer but the joint personnel administration system (JPA) allows soldiers to put in claims via computer. They are checked randomly. In the RN they still have to be signed by a senior Officer and they are ALL checked.

[Lurking123]

Is this his first 'pitch' as CGS (Des)? If so, I think his staff officer needs to work a little harder and brief him on things like Afghanistan, recruitment & retention and morale. I'm sure the whole allowances thing is important, but is it worthy of his attention?

[Compressorstall]

I have to say that most cash machines I've used don't take most of the morning just to give you hardly anything at all. Gen Richards should be court martialling these people for having so much time on their hands that they can access JPA - if we spent less time trying to manipulate JPA perhaps we would have more time to fight the wars...

[Tiger_mate]

An example of the poor JPA claim system. I recently had a one-way car hire and was instructed to hand it back to the Hire Co with a full fuel tank. Duly completed and receipt obtained. >>No facility on JPA to claim back the 'actual' of a tank of fuel. Advised by P Staff to call it a "taxi" and mention the petrol costs in the remarks. All done satisfactory insofar as my expenditure has been recovered but surely scope for a 'false claim' as no taxi was ever touched.

I am sure that many such stories exist, and in my opinion, the law should only be laid down once the 'system' is functioning correctly. My understanding is that a JPA upgrade is imminent.

[VinRouge]

I am sure that many such stories exist, and in my opinion, the law should only be laid down once the 'system' is functioning correctly. My understanding is that a JPA upgrade is imminent.

What they upgrading to? SAMA? :E

The problem is the system is too damned slow. I have been audited numerous times now due to JPACs inability to update the latest FSI figures at the beginning of the month. Its not as if they dont know they are going to change do they?

[Corrona]

And if only the tax payer knew how many man hours (££££) it takes to actually input legitimate claims. I've witnessed seniors officers scratching their heads for half a day whilst trying to figure out how to claim their entitled expenses following a couple of days of detached duty.

I'm not condoning genuinely fraudulent claims, however the allowances JSP seems to me to written to deliberately make it hard to understand.

[Dengue_Dude]

On the fiddle??

It wasn't so long ago the RAF's Air Member for Personnel was done for soliciting in a mens' toilet. . .

I suppose that was OK, because he didn't claim expenses. God some of these people are so full of sh1t.

If fiddling is endemic, then look at the causes, put them right and THEN get all righteous.

[Grabbers]

I did laugh when I read that some of his 'beef' was with those who whilst not breaking any rules, didn't follow the spirit of the system.:):):):):):):):):):):)

[taxydual]

And as for nicking HM's biro's and paperclips........tut tut :=






Dallas' links lead to this.

The Latest Fiddle Guide

Service Allowance - Main Page (http://www.modoracle.com/service_allowance/)

[Two's in]

This is a clear and obvious smokescreen generated by the incoming CGS to shift focus from the continuing lack of support and provision of Duty of Care by the MoD. This would almost be funny if the man were not being serious, imagine being up to your nuts in bad guys in some exotic location and wondering what else the spineless maggots that pass for leaders could think up next to pi$$ you off - you would never see this one coming in a month of Sundays.

If the integrity and ethics of Officers, Warrant Officers and SNCOs can be besmirched so easily by a shiny arse pen pusher, you have to wonder what on earth the JPA system has delivered that allows such a huge breach of trust to occur. For whatever reason General Richards chooses to judge his drop-short mates by such astonishgly low standards, how on earth does he get off applying it to the entire Armed Forces? Classic Gunner Man-Management.

“While this may be an acceptable excuse for a small number of our young soldiers as they develop competence on JPA, it is inexcusable for our commissioned, warrant and noncommissioned officers.”

- and what's this? It's only a crime if you should have known better? With my scant knowledge of the Law this little known principle seems to have eluded me. Love to know what the acid test for "competence on JPA" will be. The man is a complete pimmel-kopf.

[parabellum]

The three most useless things in the world, the Pope's balls, a mans tits and the Gunners!:}

[dallas]

Love to know what the acid test for "competence on JPA" will be.
FFS Two's! You've got to be so careful on this forum - that throw away remark could result in an annual days training for everyone in the RAF, down at Admin Wg (or BSW, or whatever...), or a Q- competency along the lines of Equal Ops. We have a moral responsibility not to assist their airships to come up with stupid ideas.

Careless talk costs (hours of people's) lives! :=

[Pontius Navigator]

I did laugh when I read that some of his 'beef' was with those who whilst not breaking any rules, didn't follow the spirit of the system.:):):):):):):):):):):)

Many moons ago one CAS was horrified when he found that pay was exceeding 50% of the RAF Vote. He thought we should be happy with less and not push for more pay.

Not long after it was revealed that some £0.5m - half a Vulcan in those days, half a Tiffy in today's money - was unclaimed in T&S. Ever since I saw it my duty to keep that underclaim as low as I could :)

Now T&S is always seen as the easy hit. Back in the 70s - to stay here where T&S is expensive or divert to there where it is cheaper but will require more fuel to fly a second leg home.

Or the 80s with charging for stays in the mess on weekend landaways; OK, we won't go then :)

So is education for the Services. But education was always seen as a benefit to the individual, the Service and the country.

[FrogPrince]

For my sins I earn my crust from Oracle Apps (though not HR/Payroll). I have always scratched my (CIMA-qualified) head at the way that JPA accepts expense claims with little or no audit trail or supporting documentation.

In my Monday - Friday life I have been scanning receipts into jpg format for years now and attaching the jpg to my online claims. Oracle can do this, if properly configured. In our new DII world authorising officers can approve claims electronically. Oracle can do this too, if properly configured.

How much for a job lot of cheap scanners ? Would it need a new IPT ??

It's certainly an odd one to put at the top of the new CGS' To Do List.

FP

[Milarity]

Scanners are not supported by DII(F).

[Jimlad1]

In the Generals defence, the memo may have been done last week, but who actually wrote it - and was it at his behest, or done by an overly keen SO trying to look good?
More to the point, CINCLAND has done plenty of things since the announcement of his appointment - 99.9% of them though haven't been leaked to the press.

[cockanelli]

How about get all the UK Armed Forces Daily Subsistence claimed from last year, divide by the number of nights spent away = flat rate thrown into your bank account for every night that you are away. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose but it all evens itself out. People I have spoken to have also gone further to suggest that they would accept slightly less money in order to do away with the dreaded JPA claims.

One of my crew recently was told that he couldn't buy a chocolate bar and claim for it and then in the same conversation told that you could only claim for what you could buy in the Mess!! Someone has to clarify this as at the moment confusion reigns. I would suggest it is not a case of fraudulent claims - although this system does encourage fraudulent behaviour - but that of not knowing what is and isn't claimable.

[collbar]

:ugh:Clarification!!!! don't make me laugh

[dogstar2]

The old system of getting a rate 1 was brilliant. They gave you a wad of cash which YOU decided what you spent it on. It was enough for you to get a good meal of your choosing. In addition, the system was virtually impossible to defraud (unless the person lied about being away - simple).

The military has now introduced a much more complicated system and in doing so has introduced temptation to commit fraud to those weaker people who were previously protected by the simplicity of the per diem rate.

People also feel disenfranchised because the employer is effectively telling them what to spend their entitlement on (interpretations of what the done thing is varies from base to base) and is a area open to misinterpretation.......or perhaps an allegation of fraud.

The system cost an awful lot to bring in, it must cost a fortune to audit and every time we lose a soldier, airman or matelot to a courts martial, there goes another wedge of cash it cost to train. Lets also consider the hours and hours I spend inserting the receipt information, the photocopies I have to take to keep the correct records. All of these costs are hidden. Frankly the whole process is a total waste of time for everyone in the military and presents nothing but down sides and hidden costs. The old 1771 took more time I hear the HR people say - not if you tried to put a claim in between Thurs and Monday - no access to JPA - its busy come back in 15 minutes....A TOTAL WASTE OF MY TIME!!

I would much prefer a reduction of say 20% of the current rate given as a perdiem sum. It would save everyone the valuable time they need to devote to the overstretched force they are currently in and would help us all avoid having to decide what is appropriate and what is not. It would also help those with weaknesses to stay on the true path!!!!

Every other military I have come across still use per diem rates......why not us - It worked for years and then they suddenly changed it. Come on top brass. Look at the situation, realise that your plan has not worked and use your moral fibre to MAKE A SENSIBLE DECISION TO REVERSE THE CAPPED ACTUAL EXPERIMENT.

[Grabbers]

Dogstar,

What were you thinking? Reverse a decision? Use your moral fibre? You were kidding right?

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Scanners not supported by DII (F)? Well that's a step in the right direction isn't it....

tw@ts...

So what is one supposed to do to e-file a paper document?

(for those who haven't served at an HQ penal colony, e-filing is the latest,greatest thing in the world of accountability and organisation. The only snag being that when dealing with people outside of your organisation sometimes they're inconsiderate enough to send you something on paper, rather than electronically... Several solutions exist, the neatest of which is to scan said document and place on appropriate e-file... God I hate the year I was forced to spend at PTC....)

[adminblunty]

When JPA was introduced DCDS(Pers) said that any increase in allowances costs because of fraudulant claims would be offset by the savings in disestablishing allowances....

Even when we had rates and checks by allowances, fraud was rife, it certainly was on det in Italy.

Anyone remember the 40ish court martials at 2 MT Sqn in 2000/2001.

It has always gone on and always will do.

[dogstar2]

Admin Blunty,

Fraud has always happened, in that you are correct and it is certain that the occasional false rate 1 occurred. However, assuming that the basis for claiming day subsistence is valid (ie that person will be away from unit for more than 5 hours etc), the capped actual system has opened up more temptation for our personnel to commit fraud. Previously they took a rate 1 allowance and did with it as they wanted. Now there is a temptation for the weak to fraudulently self certify or to get hold of dodgy receipts. The rates system required no auditing and this issue did not even come into play as receipts did not play a part in the whole system. The sad thing is that we have failed the weaker members of our forces by giving them a system which has inherent temptation. I do not like this as it will risk bringing the armed forces into disrepute. Give us lets say £20 per day for > 5hours away done and dusted - no accountants required, fewer courts martials, much much less wasted computer time (especially waiting for terminals to come free for those on the Front Line without a system sitting on the desk (Front Line First - remember) and I mean quite serious levels of computer time with the slow JPA system we have which seems to be encountering a large number of problems at the moment.

[Hueymeister]

Rumour abounds that Waddington has allowed personnel to 'self certify' the max for a JPA DS claim in a bid to reduce the paperwork burden of audits. Can anyone clarify?

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Huey,

Will be watching for any responses to that with great interest :ok:

[Hueymeister]

Anyone? Gone very quiet...

[VinRouge]

Perhaps it needs its own thread Huey?

Like the whole JPA/allowances system needs to hold national meetings between the key bases to ensure that all individuals receive the same allowances and not just a local interpretation of the rules....

For example... Describe 1 drink with your meal... Is this:

1) a half bottle of wine

2) a Large glass of anything you can pay within DS

3) A small glass of your cheapest rat Pi$$ that will leave you with bad guts for a week?

How about cheque encashment? According to QRs, we are entitled to cash up to £100 into local currency. Not so according to local regs on some bases. And there was me thinking it took an act of parliament to change QRs, not a local admin to mandate otherwise on base...

[ZH875]

Describe 1 drink with your meal.

As much as I can drink and a packet of crisps. :p

[Brown Job]

To return to the original thread, yes there may be one or two of our soldiers that do milk the system, BUT the real problem is that some of our more junior soldiers really aren't very bright, nor are they expected to be experts in allce regs. Therefore they take random guesses at what they might be entitled to and then wonder why the auditor rants at them.

[VinRouge]

Saw this Alex Cartoon (torygraph, bl00dy hilarious) and thought of this thread....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01128/DCAL051208-3_1128017a.jpg