CPU clock stopping on an upgrade/newbuild.

[Keygrip]

Depression has finally set in. I turn to ask for help.

Leftover from my new build in February, I find a new ASUS M2N-SLi Deluxe mobo sitting in a box on my shelf (one of my shelves).

Wife is running a perfectly happy XP OS on an IDE HDD attached to a very old (micro ATX) mobo that can only handle 1gb CPU and 512 RAM - me decided to swap the motherboard and upgrade to digital graphics.

Why? Because I can! (...and our survey says <insert noise that is impossible to spell>).

Over time, I...

Bought an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Black Edition CPU. 2.8 gb dual core.
Bought 4gb RAM
Bought a humongous CPU cooling fan and heat sink.
Bought a new 650W power supply.
Bought a new Hitachi 500gb SATA HDD.
Bought 2 x new LiteOn SATA DVD burners.

Installed the leftover motherboard
Installed a leftover GeForce8600GT graphics card.

Turn it on, press DEL to enter setup. System clock counting - suddenly stops.

Not overwhelmed with mobo fit to old case - bought a new case.

Turn it on (single beep from speaker, RAM counted correctly, three SATA devices detected [no IDE drive - so no OS yet]).

Clock stops after approx 25 to 35 seconds.

I've tried another chip (from the PC I'm using now to type - same problem - but both chips run perfectly in my current machine).

I've tried another CPU cooler (swapped it with the cooler from the machine I'm using now).

Very frustrated, very disappointed wife.

Reminds me perfectly of the "If it ain't broke - don't fix it" saying.

Any thoughts? Any guru's on holiday in Orlando?

[Saab Dastard]

single beep from speaker, RAM counted correctly, three SATA devices detected [no IDE drive - so no OS yet].

If there are no bootable devices, you should get at least an "operating system not detected" sort of message - is that what you are thinking?

What's the boot order in the BIOS?

Have you got a floppy drive and bootable disk to test with?

Have you got an IDE CD drive to test with?

That's what I'd be looking at first - I don't trust this new-fangled SANTA, or whatever it's called!! ;)

SD

[jetcollie]

There are several threads available through Google indicating that you need a recent BIOS version to support Athlon64 X2 chips and certain types of memory chips are not compatible. Here's one thread that tries to solve these issues:

ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe - Not! First Impressions (http://www.motherboardpoint.com/t61112-asus-m2nsli-deluxe-not--first-impressions.html)

Good luck.

[Keygrip]

Saab...not trying to get that far.

I'm starting the machine (which is effectively new build) and entering BIOS/CMOS setup utility by clicking DEL before it attempts to boot up.

I see the system clock (at the wrong time setting) ticking away. I just tried again after a 2½ hour break - the clock ran for 4 mins 3 seconds and then froze.

If I shut down (hold the power button) and instantly restart the clock runs for a variable - but in the region of 25 to 30 seconds - then freezes.

JC - many thanks, will follow the link. Thanks.

The CPU works fine in my current machine - which has identical motherboard and memory chips in it. Must admit, I don't think I've tried it for over 4 minutes though. Hmmm.

It's making me suspect a heat problem. I did get a comment some time ago about "paste" between the heat sink and the CPU. The heat sink has been fitted/removed numerous times during the battle. Could this be a serious contender? Do I go anywhere specialised for the paste? Radio Shack?

[neil_1821]

To be honest i don't think it'd be a heating problem, usually if a computer gets too hot it will shut itself down to avoid and permanent damage, however you could try using some past between the heatsink, it's not much and for what you'd gain or loose it's probably worth it.

I don't know enough about dual core processors or your type of mobo, but there's a little battery on there that keeps all the clocks in sync usually, it might even be worth taking that out, or replacing it for the amount it would cost you

[Saab Dastard]

I'm sure that jetcollie's link is likely to be the most fruitful - having had 2 ASUS mobos, I can attest to the fact that what their specs say they can do and what they actually support can be rather different.

I'd be surprised if the CPU could be overheating in the few minutes - seconds really - that it is running. But you should certainly make sure that the old paste is removed and new applied before finishing the build. When it is up and running it's going to be HOT (it's an AMD).

SD

[Keygrip]

I tried the collies lead (geddit?) and didn't feel to get anywhere. The folks there were saying they couldn't get into the BIOS settings - I can get in, can see the clock ticking away at what it believes to be the correct time (hrs:mins:seconds)...then the seconds stop clicking and all contact is lost - no mouse, no keyboard actions. Nuth'n.

If I then restart, it kicks off again, having timeshifted to where it believes the time is now - so that would suggest that the mobo battery is OK. It is *keeping time*...it just freezes and stops showing a time count.

I'd be amazed if it does run hot after the build. It has three case fans and a liquid cooled heatsink the size of Blackpool Tower.

[twiggs]

I would be inclined to update the bios (http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=M2N-SLI%20Deluxe) to the latest version.
Changing the battery prior to doing this will ensure your battery is good and secondly will clear the CMOS to default and maybe solve your problem anyway.

[Avtrician]

Try a new Bios battery, it may be a bit flat, and unable to hold time and settings information (especially as it seems the board has been hiding in a cupboard somewhere. This is certainly the easiest thing to try.

[Keef]

You say you have water cooling, giant fans, and the rest... and old heatsink paste. I'd lay the blame at the lack of paste.

I don't know AMD chips (tried one once, had problems, went back to Intel), but if they generate that much heat, then the paste is a vital part of the installation. Without a heatsink, that chip is going to go past max operating temperature in a pretty short time, and will then shut down. No or inadequate paste = no heatsink.

I bought a laptop, years ago, at a very good price. I found out why: it would shut down after some random length of time, then come back after a while, then shut down again. The fan ran continuously. I opened it up, found NO heatsink compound, and smeared the chip with the Thermpath I use for power transistors. Problem solved, fan ran very occasionally, and laptop worked flawlessly till I upgraded. My daughter still uses it.

I use Thermpath, but I bought my pot of the stuff about 20 years ago - I don't use a lot. I'm sure it or something similar is easily available from Maplin etc. You don't need much of it, but you do need to clean off any old gunk from the chip and the heatsink face. I use isopropanol to do that.

[Saab Dastard]

My approach to troubleshooting would be to remove everything bar the CPU and 1 stick of RAM (I'm assuming there's onboard VGA) and see what happens. Assuming that you have thermal paste on the CPU, to be certain.

If you get that going, take it from there.

If not (and you have already verified the CPU), try a different RAM module, and if that doesn't work, it's a faulty mobo.

SD

[Keygrip]

Bought a small tube of thermal paste - came with a small plastic "spreader" for smoothing it out.

Carefully cleaned the CPU top and heatsink base with isopropyl alcohol, squished a blob of thermal mush on the CPU, spread it out *very* neatly. Put everything back together.

Turned it on (24 hours from last attempt [so cold]).

6 minutes 4 seconds then locked up again.

Turned off and back on again. 54 seconds to lock up.

Turned off and back on again - ooooooooh, different....one long beep and three short beeps from the speaker.

Turned off and back on again. 24 seconds, locked up.

Put it away, returned to this machine to a) drink coffee, b)post this and c) play Second Life.

Sigh.

[twiggs]

If you still have problems after checking the graphics card then I would again suggest resetting the CMOS, instructions from the Asus support are here. (http://support.asus.com/troubleshooting/troubleshooting.aspx?SLanguage=en-us) When you get to this page click <motherboard> then look at both a) motherboard failed to boot up and b) system freezes. The latter has the clear CMOS instructions.
If you still have no joy a bios upgrade is worth doing.

[Keygrip]

Thanks for trying.

I did the CMOS procedure as per the ASUS website. I also double checked the graphics card.

3 minutes 52 seconds to freeze.

Sigh.

[Keygrip]

Another attempt bit the dust at 3 mins 46.

No onboard video - so can't take the card out.

[Keef]

I think you said the display powers up. So you get the GeForce card's own display first, then the Mobo's bits about the BIOS, memory installed, etc - yes?

It then sees three SATA devices - hard drive and two DVD burners - yes?

So something's working, then it gets the hump.

Will it boot from a CD or a DVD in one of those DVD burners? Do you have a Knoppix CD (always a useful thing to have lying around)? Will it boot that?

Since we've eliminated the absence of heatsink paste, try SD's suggestion - remove all but the graphics card and one stick of memory (so no drives). See if that does the same.

Do you have another graphics card lying conveniently around? Anything would do, even an old PCI one - anything that will fit.
Graphics cards get very hot, and if there's something wrong with one, it can pull large amounts of current so that the voltage available drops too low for other bits to run.

[twiggs]

What happens if you press <ALT> + <F2> during POST instead of <Delete>?
This should go direct to the EZ Flash 2 feature in the bios.

Ditto Keefs post, all attempts should be done with the bare minimum attached.
You can even try with no graphics card if you don't have an alternative one lying around, just listen carefully for the beep codes.

This motherboard should have 2 yellow and 2 black DIMM slots.
It will accept one DIMM module in any slot, but if you have 2, it will only accept them in either the yellow or black, not a combination.

It is also recommended that the BLUE PCI Express X 16 slot is used for single graphics card mode.

[Keygrip]

Thanks for the last two replies - I *will* have a go at them. I can "borrow" the graphics card from my current machine (this one, "Deep Thought") as both it and the mobo are identical to the ones in the new build (to be called "Deep Green").

My uneducated understanding is that as long as I click "DEL" whilst the message "Hit DEL to enter setup" is on the bottom of the screen, the PC will not even attempt to "boot" - as I've clicked it into some sort of limbo, or pause mode.

I've not tried any media in either of the hard drives, nor does the HDD have *ANYTHING* on it - completely bare, brand new, disk (or disc). There is currently no operating system on this machine. I thought the boot system and OS loading was done when I hit "Exit and save" in the BIOS set up screens. No?

The OS (Win XP) is on an IDE drive which is connected to my current machine (Deep Thought) as a fifth drive - this gives wife her own .pst files and documents, on her own drive, which is planned to be mirrored onto the SATA drive when everything works. The IDE drive will then become a .pst/documents "back up" drive.

On the subject of the plug ins - the video card is indeed in the blue slot, the two RAM sticks are next to each other in the two slots nearest the CPU, one black, one yellow.................oh!!

(Built in pause).

Back. Removed one stick of RAM from yellow socket, powered up, computer noticed change in RAM, froze after 3 minutes 28.

Tried with other stick of RAM instead - froze after 2 minutes 18.

Put them both back in the two black slots, froze in two minutes 15.

Sigh (again).

Will try without the drives next time (just unplug all the SATA leads from mobo end?).....but does that not confirm what I said about "boot system" above?

Frustrating - yet fascinating.

[twiggs]

You are correct that the boot sequence does not activate till after the POST or after you exit the bios setup.
Are you able to get into the bios setup at all after pressing <Delete> during the POST?
If not, then try <ALT> + <F2> during the POST.

If you have any reason to suspect that any of the jumpers on the motherboard have been tampered with since you left it on your shelf, then you might like to make sure they are all correctly located in their default position.
Another thing to check since the processor has probably been off and on the board a few times during this process, is to make sure none of its pins inadvertently became bent.

[Keygrip]

Yep, can get into BIOS every time (for an unknown and variable length of time) - that's how I see the system clock and date.

Wrong time and date - but running until it freezes.

[twiggs]

When you say bios, are you referring to the POST?
does it look like this?
http://biorobots.cwru.edu/server/howto/buildcomp/post/post.jpg

[stickyb]

What was the CPU in the old machine? You are not trying to switch from Intel to AMD are you?

Either way, how did you get round the problem of the motherboard drivers? You need to install the new ones that came with the mother board, but I don't think you can until you are running on the new board - bit of a catch 22?

[green granite]

You could try asking the question here: Motherboards, Bios & CPU - Tech Support Forum (http://www.techsupportforum.com/hardware-support/motherboards-bios-cpu/)

[Keygrip]

No, twiggs, it's when that screen shows that I hit the "DEL" key and get into a whole world of demons and dragons of settings.

Everything is "toggle", dozens of little presets like boot order, hard drive health monitoring, auto or manual finding of components....all sorts of stuff.

Have to click F10 to save and exit. Then it starts up again from zero.

Go to the page you show - see extreme bottom left - hit the DEL key and you will see what I mean.

The CPU in original macine was a small, 700MHz thing - not sure of brand - but it's now in the trash/dustbin :{:{.

The current chip is an AM2 and an AM2 mobo.

The chip that I loaned it from this machine was another AM2, Athlon 64 X2 (6400 model).

[twiggs]

Ok that's good, just wanted to be sure of how far you get.
So you can get to the EZ Flash 2 feature in the bios?
I think an attempt at bios upgrade is about your only alternative left apart from trying a different mobo.

Try going into EZFlash 2 and become familiar with how it works.
If the system still freezes after a couple of minutes that might still be enough time to try an upgrade.
When you are sure of what needs to be done, download the new bios file to a flash drive.
Pressing <ALT> + <F2> instead of <delete> will save you time and send you straight to the utility when you are ready to do it.

What is the bios version currently?
Do you have the motherboard setup CD?

[Keef]

I'd be wary of trying to write a new BIOS with the thing freezing after a few minutes. If it decides to freeze while writing the BIOS there may be no way back.

Try the different graphics card option first!

[twiggs]

Agreed Keef, but I am assuming Keygrip has tried all advice that has been suggested to now.
I would also like to know first if the system does freeze whilst in the EZ flash utility in the bios setup. (just using the utility not actually doing the update)

[Keef]

Indeed!

My main machine developed an occasional and random disk fault that I could NOT run down.

It turned out to be a duff ribbon cable from the hard drives to the motherboard. I'd bought a new 500GB hard drive, and was thinking about a new motherboard, when it occurred to me. Probably the cheapest item in the PC.

[Keygrip]

Tried it today with all three SATA devices unplugged at the mobo end.

3 minutes 52.

[Keef]

Have you tried it with a different graphics card?

[green granite]

Try putting the old psu into it and running it with just 1 stick of ram and the video card and see what happens, then plug in a sata disc and see if it can see it. Power supplies can cause all sorts of strange things to happen

[Keygrip]

Replacing the old PSU would require a rubber mallet or sledgehammer - it's a different socket type.....and the "old" one is in the trash (unfortunately).

Graphics cards exchanged - identical cards in this machine (Deep Thought) and the upgrade/new build machine (Deep Green) - consecutive serial numbers.

The graphics card that was in the new build is now happily running in this machine - no pioint in swapping them back.

Graphics card that WAS running in this machine, was put into Deep Green - 3 minutes 27.

Tried a reboot and alt/F2. Took me to a page entitled "EZ Flash BIOS ROM Utility B327"

It went on to say "FlashType: PMC Pm4GFL004T LPC/FWH"

Current ROM
Board M2n-SLI Deluxe
Version 1400
Date 02/14/08

Alt/F2 didn't display a clock, so wasn't in a position to check the time.

Will try again later when I get my instrument approach stop watch out of the car (yes, I do still time my approaches - I'm old, you see).

[twiggs]

Since you can get into the bios settings, can you set the correct time and date?

[Bushfiva]

Sounds like something's overheating, and it it's not the CPU, it's something else that should be heatsinked but isn't. Tried touching all the chips and heatsinks? You're looking for a chip that's incredibly hot, or a heatsink that's cold (because it's not sinking heat). I don't know if you've done it already, but in the minutes available to you before it locks up, I'd nip along to the "turbo settings" or similar, and set it to safe, or default mode or whatever it's called.

But what I'd personally do about now is sneakily buy another motherboard without telling anyone.

[Keef]

But what I'd personally do about now is sneakily buy another motherboard without telling anyone.
You and me both ;)

Actually, before doing that, I'd put my test meter across the outputs of the power supply when it's working, and again when it isn't.

I've changed lots of power supplies over the years (probably several a year for the various folks I "look after"), and only one motherboard. They have a habit of dropping one of the power rails.

I've not needed a hammer to do that - they're usually held in by four screws.

But I think this is a new power supply and a new case because the old one was dud.

[Keygrip]

It is, indeed a new power supply - but bought from the High Street and not shrink wapped (which suggests it was opened previously).

Test leads have been across the outputs during it's "running" - didn't think to search for volts after the freeze.

First time I tried to set time and date, it was a few minutes after boot up and it froze as soon as I started banging on keys - so I just stopped trying. Will try that again, today.

I've already started perusing the pages of www.newegg.com (http://www.newegg.com) for another ATX form, AMD motherboard, that will accept the same components (RAM pins, video card, CPU, 3xSATA) but does not have the name ASUS on the box. Disgraceful company that do not deserve one cent of anybodies money.

I would have ordered one - but America closes for the day tomorrow (Thursday) and the sales start on Friday.

[Keygrip]

Had another thought - the PSU has two, independently wired, four pin plugs for the CPU. Seems there are some 8 pin power units out there and you have to use both plugs to accommodate them.

I switched the leads in the hope of finding non-stop volts (if they ever did stop - not tried the multi meter yet).

Turned it on, successfully set the correct time and date before it all stopped at 3 minutes 17 seconds.

I creep towards ordering another board, don't I?

Sigh.

[twiggs]

Now that you have managed to succesfully set the date and time, what happens upon reboot? Is the date and time still correct?

If you are planning on getting a new mobo, then an attempt at bios upgrade is worth trying as it won't cost you anything if the board is going in the bin anyway.
3 minutes should be sufficient time, but a few practice runs in the EZ Flash utility, without the new bios file, would be wise so that you mazimize the use of those 3 minutes.
When you are happy, save the new bios onto a flash drive and give it a go.

[Keygrip]

Yus. Real time and date remembered.

ASUS sent me an e-mail a few days ago about another subject. I mentioned my disappointment with the company customer support (ASUS customer support? oxymoron).

They said they will re-open the case that I started in February. They proudly say that somebody will telephone me on Monday.....or Tuesday. (Maybe!).

[Keygrip]

The new motherboard is scheduled for delivery on Thursday.

[Saab Dastard]

I take it won't be another ASUS? :}

SD

[Keygrip]

To be fair, SD - when the stuff I've had with their name on the front works, it worked well.

When I needed help from them - absolute bag of <expletive deleted>.

No, for the sake of $48, it's a low brand name, "Elitegroup" ECS A780GM

Cheap enough to be worth the risk - even just for a component check. See what faults this one will throw up.

[Keygrip]

New board installed (no 1384, doh!!).

Ran like a dream, turned it off at 4hrs 30.

Now just got to put the old IDE HDD back in and see if it will boot up.

[Keygrip]

All runing rather well now.

Installed a genuine copy of XP Pro and activated it with MS.

Installed all the drivers for the mobo.

Connected the machine to the rest of the home network, installed the local printer (but couldn't find the network printer [yet}.

Ran Windows update a few times to get SP2 and a few new tweaks - wasn't offered SP3 for some reason.

Then I notice the configuration.

There are two identical optical drives in SATA 4 and SATA 5, and a brand new, therefore totally empty until this occurrence), 500Gb HDD as SATA 1.

Windows partitioned the drive, installed the OS - but called it "Drive I" (India) and classes Drive C as a "Removable disk - no media".

I'm sure that is going to cause tears in the (near) future.

[Saab Dastard]

In order to ensure that Win XP installs to C as you want and expect it to, I find that you have to make certain that there are no formatted partitions visible (apart from C) when you start the installation.

Disconnect other physical disks, don't create other partitions on the installation disk.

SD

[Keygrip]

Well, it took a bit of doing - but we're there!! Yay!! :ok:

Turned out that the drive assignment was because I had installed an internal card reader into USB controller 2 - and it was read as four removable media slots. C D E & F

This apparently pushed the HDD to be named drive I behind the four card slots and two optical drives. G & H.

Removed the USB plug, re-installed XP, reconnected USB. Then set about doing all the updates again.

Off to the shop for an extra digital video cable, then she can have the new graphics card installed.

Made the machine connect to the home network, found it's printer (but, curiously, not the network printer) - just need to load Office, update Office, transfer the .pst files for wifeys e-mail and then install her old IDE drive as a .pst back up drive.

Also have to figure out how to control RealVnc to see the machine from my desktop viewer. The server has been installed already.

Phew. I need a beer.

Many thanks for all your input everybody. Very much appreciated.

[jimtherev]

Your vast but hitherto unheard-from audience applauds you!

[Keef]

Also have to figure out how to control RealVnc to see the machine from my desktop viewer. The server has been installed already.

Are these Windows machines, or Linux?

For Windows, you don't need RealVNC (unless you happen to like going that way).
Remote Desktop Connection will do much the same and is easy to set up.

[Keygrip]

Windows, Keef.

Recommended, free, easy to use once rigged. I just have to work out what the settings are to allow my office machine to connect to it.

All home network will be operable from my "home office" computer which is my desktop, running Vista Ultimate, laptop sending out my radio stream in office running Windows XP Home (won't do remote access), laptop in lounge connected to LCD TV (running Vitsa Home Basic), new machine will be running XP Pro in spare bedroom.

Both laptops already have VNC servers on them and are accessed as required (regularly for my radio stream) from the keyboard and screen(s) used by my desktop.

It's really just to cut down on "GoToMyPC" subscription which was getting carried away. Now I can remote to my office machine from any internet connection and run my entire network (if I need to).

[Keef]

Yep, I use RemoteVNC to control the Linux box (in Essex) when in Norfolk. It does that well.

I have it set up on both Windows machines (primarily to link to Linux) and can use it between them. I just find Remote Desktop Connection easier.

The Essex place has a fixed IP address, and the machines there are fixed IP from the router, so it's all very straightforward to operate.

The only wacky side-effect that I've never bothered to fix is how it handles printers.
The main desktop in Essex has two printers on it, and there's a printer in the Norfolk house (used by the laptop when I'm up here). The Essex printers are shared on the network, so I can use them from the laptop or the Linux machine. When the laptop connects to the Essex PC via the VPN, the PC adds the printers it sees on the laptop (no idea why). It ends up with its own two printers as viewed through the VPN via the laptop. It also picks up the Norfolk printer and the WinFax settings from the laptop.

Then, when I disconnect from the VPN, it gets all upset that four of its printers have vanished, and spends the next little while searching for them. The event viewer displays its panic! It's not a problem, since I'm not there anyway, but it is odd.