USAF pilot discusses F-15 versus Su-30MKI

[Argonautical]

This article and video may be interest to the boys and girls who fly the heavy metal. Did it quick search but didn't find it, so it may be new to the forum.

Pilot's YouTube indiscretions could trigger wider air power debate (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/11/10/318544/pilots-youtube-indiscretions-could-trigger-wider-air-power.html)

[Been There...]

It was deleted so I wouldn't expect this one to last too long either!

Regards

[soddim]

I bet the USAF would like to get this off the web!

USAF pilot describes IAF Su-30MKI performance at Red Flag-08 - The DEW Line (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2008/11/usaf-pilot-describes-iaf-su30m.html)

[mr fish]

i never had the bottom line on shar with regard to VIFFING, although lots of stuff was postulated in the 70s, was it a tactic with real merit??
if the shot failed would the " out of speed, height and luck" routine come in to play??

[Modern Elmo]

I bet the USAF would like to get this off the web!

Why is that? The gent says that the F-22 is better than the SU-30 ( the M model? ), but F-15's without AESA radars and F-16's other than Block 50 are not.

For we know, this video might be a deliberate USAF leak to sell the need for more F-22's and maybe F-35's.

[soddim]

Maybe, Modern Elmo, they are happy with the overt criticism of the French and the attitude in general to foreign participants in Red Flag. Maybe they are also happy with the message to Congress. In my country we do business differently and we try to keep our operational comparisons and other secure information to ourselves and those that need to know.

[Trojan1981]

:suspect:Sounds like propaganda to me...

I read that the Idians were instructed not to use their radar and other systems to their full extent during red flag. People who have been to these excercises know that the results on an intrumented range can be easily controlled by the home team.

The perfect example is the fact that the first 'Kill' of an F-22 was scored by an aggressor F-16 in Alaska, does anyone think the F-16 is a better fighter than the F-22? Of course not.

The only true test is on a live two way range, when the flag drops, the bulls:mad:t stops....

[Modern Elmo]

Maybe, Modern Elmo, they are happy with the ... the attitude in general to foreign participants in Red Flag.

The USAF dude was quite grateful that the Indians provided a suitable situation to evaluate the Su-30.

[galaxy flyer]

Might note Elmo's address!!

[Bushfiva]

Very interesting comments about the activities of the French aircraft, too, in the second video.

[Modern Elmo]

I read that the Idians were instructed not to use their radar and other systems to their full extent during red flag. People who have been to these excercises know that the results on an intrumented range can be easily controlled by the home team.

OmiGawd, you're on to it, Dr. Kopp! The USAF rigged the Red Flag exercises. The Americans cheated to conceal the shocking truth that SU-30's are much better than F-22's!!!

[saudipc-9]

Seems to me like a fair, unclassified assessment of how things went. I didn't see any "indiscretions" except for maybe for the turn rates but I'll bet that is not secret nor the actual abilities.

[RansS9]

And the sustained turnrate for the typhoon (at equivalent altitude/density) would be?
Interesting observations about over zealous use of vectored thrust in the horizontal. All the airshow routines as far as I know show its' use in the vertical.

[Trojan1981]

OmiGawd, you're on to it, Dr. Kopp! The USAF rigged the Red Flag exercises. The Americans cheated to conceal the shocking truth that SU-30's are much better than F-22's!!!

Thanks for your contribution:ok:

[icarus sun]

What the Col said was not a surprise. F15/16 coming to end of life,Su series still being heavily updated. F22 much better starting its service life, would expect to be better aircraft. About french antics normal everyone does it. Dont ever use laptop with sensitive data on any commercial aircraft,if you want to keep it secret. Lots of snooping going on.:ok:

[busdriver02]

The real story here isn't that the French snoop at joint exercises (everyone does) or that the Indians limit themselves at joint exercises (everyone does) or that the F-22 is better than the SU-30. The real story is that the Indian Air Force has proven to be a very professional force with the capability to learn from their mistakes and once you add some interoperability equipment to their list of toys, they will be a true coalition asset for future operations. Overall, this is a good story. The western world has gained a peer ally.

[Modern Elmo]

Co. Somebody in the vid. is pretty much talking the USAF sales talk line regarding F-22, which is:

(1) F-22 besser than SU-30, however

(2) Rooskies catching up, Roosky aircraft improving

(3) Therefore USAF needs more F-22's sooner to keep all safe.

(3) F-35? Delay discussion till later. Translation: delay F-35 to get more $ for F-22 in fiscal years '09, '10,'11. Delay, not cancel.

(4) Service life extension with ee-lectronics upgrades for some F-16's and F-15's, no mo' entirely newly built items of same. Span transition to F-35 that way.

(5) US mil. certainly does want be friends with IAF, French not dis-invited, but no need to help sell their airplanes.