Hello,

just wondering if this would be a good time to get back into aviation. I understand there is now no hiring from 'big brother', and hence the trickle down effect....

I did my CPL in the mid 90's and experienced the bottom of the 'cycle' then, hence my tentativness. So I'm hoping we are not going to go through all that again. e.g. 3000TT min for right seat on 15 seater.

I have 500 TT 150 m/e, and obviously a very uncurrent MEIR.

May contemplate doing the ol' C-Cat, and when I think about it, I have no aversion to doing. Bearing in mid of course, the pitfalls of choosing the establishment where to do this.

Any wise foresight and suggestions would be gratefully received by this Generation X'er.

Hmmm..even when the aviation job market was pumping 18 months ago, there was still a hardcore group of GA owners who refused to adjust their pay and conditions to suit the times. Its sad that the hiring couldn't go on for a little longer just to make it happen. Now they'll all be chuckling that its back to the 1980s slave labour market:ugh:

It will be a great day when employers pay the average wage for pilots

If you don't mind going to Australia it would be worth a look and trying to get something there. I dare say it might even be a speedier progression there than NZ.

Thanks for the suggestion re Australia. I did the Slingair (Kununurra) stint back in the late 90's when still single, unmortgaged, and kid-free (well, as far as I know anyway), but this is not an option now due to acquiring all three of the above.

I did my MEIR training through GBA back when they were touting free (?) 20 hours co-pilot time as a carrot. This co-pilot time was never finished, as I broke my leg in a skiing accident, so I wonder......? Who is the go-to person there these days ?

GBA did interviews about a month ago.
(pay $100 a day)

So $75 in the hand what a joke

I can't remember now if that was net or gross, I think it was net in the hand.
But if you are doing duty of 10hr+ ...minimum wage?

Might be a joke but got me into a nice shiny plane with a working autopilot, and room to stand up.
Small pain for big gain.

Thanks for the feedback. I see a lot more diligence required by me on this.

Might be a joke but got me into a nice shiny plane with a working autopilot, and room to stand up.
Small pain for big gain.

And this is why Pilots bring the doom on themselves, the gain in the end becomes 'pain' because someone will always sell their mother, and do it cheaper than you will. ANZ along with the regionals, have not hired for a while, so suck up the pain and reep what you sowed.

GG

GG,

What the :mad: are you talking about? Do you even live in NZ?
Air Nelson are just starting more guys off a recently finished ground course, plus a bunch of guys doing their line training, and Eagle are interviewing for 11 f/o's very soon.

No one will work for free and shouldn't, but GA pays what it pays. Thats life in NZ. No one has to sell their mother or soul. I sure as hell didn't, and wouldn't have worked for free either. I'm reeping the sweet sweet crop I sowed and it ain't too bad from my seat up above the GA crowd.

Your dreaming mate,

Sun air just lost its freight gig, so the drivers are lucky to do a flight a week and eagle wont be taking anyone on anytime soon!

Let's face it, you can drive everywhere in NZ pretty quickly, that really limits GA charter and plentiful RPT, most kiwi pilots leave the 9th state and head for the mainland.

:ok:

Dear MR/MRS minimum_wage, where did you hear this information from??

Is this true, Eagle hiring 11 fo's, sounds exciting

And, Nelson, too

Is this true????

Fs1200

My guess is they are interviewing 11 CTC cadets, not hiring.

Its a rite of passage in any industry to start off on lower wages and work up from there, but they need to still pay a FAIR wage that leaves a little over for food after having to pay most of their $75 for a tank of petrol to get to the airport in the first place.

Air NSN just interviewed last week. (hmm you might want to tell the boys and girls that were interviewed last week that Air Nelson aren't interviewing...)

Eagle interviews are up and coming

Pac Blue still interviewing and hiring...

Let's face it, you can drive everywhere in NZ pretty quickly :eek:

?&^&*??

Auckland to Gisborne is a what 6 or 7 hour drive, or a 50 min flight.

How about Wellington to Christchurch? That's got to be 8 hours including the ferry.

I dont know if either you don't live in NZ or just haven't been south of the Bombay hills for a while but the difficult terrain and relatively small population versus land mass area surely make this a country very suited to air operations.

It is a bit of a mindset thing though.

Anything over 2 hours, kiwis take a cut lunch. 4 hours, the overnight bag.

I still find the idea of driving for 10 hours strange.

I think I'd rather fly for the 50mins for sure than take on kiwi roads!
(South Island driving was much more enjoyable though)

"Sun air just lost its freight gig, so the drivers are lucky to do a flight a week and eagle wont be taking anyone on anytime soon!"

Shit, you really should tell the Sunair guys/gals who still pass through Ohakea's airspace every weeknight this. I'm sure they will be very interested to learn they aren't carrying anything :ok:

Good to see there are people on here who actually are in touch with the scene in NZ as well. Looks like GG is in his little aussie GA world and is in
fact the one dreaming. He also hasn't driven in NZ before. What a :mad:.
Sun Air isn't an airline, lets face it. It's GA. I'm talking about the link carriers here that fly the Koru.
Interesting if its 11 cadets for Eagle. Feel sorry for the captains they have to fly with when shit hits the fan.

And don't worry guys who read this who have just FINISHED their Air NSN ground course or have had interviews on Tuesday and in Dec, it wasn't a dream, The Green Goblin didn't spike your drink. It really happened.

Yes nelson are still interviewing for 2 new aircraft that arrive next year, Havent heard much about whats happening at the NZ division of NASA (Eagle) but the bottom line is things are going to slow right down and probably stop.
The economy is lunching itself, GA Outfits like sunair will find it hard with reduced freight volumes and companies looking to reduce costs.Less tourism as well makes it hard for scenic operators. Not to mention the increase in costs due to the low dollar. Talk of redundencies at Air NZ. If you want a stable job in aviation, join the Air Force.

Green goblin did you come thru GA? It amuses me how everyboby cracks on about how pilots screw it for everyone by accepting shit conditions when they came through the same system. If you came thru before min wage then he reaped what you sowed. get off your soap box.

water wings: just because the planes are flying, doesnt mean their making money which is the important part.

ZK-NSN - But how could this be...

Keen to hear about "redundancies at Air NZ".......????
The boys and girls at Air NZ would be surprised to hear about them. Did you mean LWOP?

Thats the word on the street. Who really knows but come winter its going to be interesting times. Parking up the 747's combined with lower demand could mean cut backs. You talk to any Air NZ jet driver, i bet they arent updating the Bentley this year, not with fife the knife at the wheel.

Mr T: your giving me nightmares.

huh? As Thump mentioned, the leave without pay situation right now IS because some of the 744s have been parked up already. And those that have taken the offer are off laughing making $$ while the sun shines in the sandpit.

However Air NZ main is still interviewing at present, building a holding pool of pilots sitting on 'yes' letters.
Meanwhile, and I am speculating here, Eagle is trying out the CTC cadets slowly, ready to see if they can take on more when it comes time for big brother to take a bigger bite of their pilots. Remember the so called Air NZ Cadet scheme is due to be launched next year.

Mr T: your giving me nightmares. - anything with McK is a nightmare!

However Air NZ main is still interviewing at present, building a holding pool of pilots sitting on 'yes' letters.
Meanwhile, and I am speculating here, Eagle is trying out the CTC cadets slowly,


Waikato Times Article 23 Nov 08


http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq104/H3LuxNZ/Waikatotimes23nov.jpg

I'm sure everyone congratulates 'Bank Angle'. Enjoying Gisborne? Anyone know if Fanta Pants is still building PIC time in the C172 to meet Eagle S.O.P requirements? or what I'm really interested to know is who paid for it.....:hmm:

"Keen to hear about "redundancies at Air NZ".......????
The boys and girls at Air NZ would be surprised to hear about them. Did you mean LWOP?"

I bet they were surprised when they heard it. I guess its kind of leave without pay. Granted its not pilots but the high priced items are prime targets.

How much do these "cadets" have to pay to get through CTC's course?

How much do these "cadets" have to pay to get through CTC's course?


According to NMIT fees summary below but more than likely out of date(jan 07) - Nmit website for DISA(ATPL):

>Fees Summary


As at 1 January 2007
Student fees include GST.
CoursesFixed Wing

Ground Theory3,800.00

CPL Practical42,000.00

Optional Practical, 50 hours7,500.00

Instrument Flight Rules (IFR)15,370.00

ATPL Courses3,930.00

All students pay NMIT separately the compulsory student union fee of $100.00 +GST per EFTS. Uniforms and head sets are not included in the fees and are not funded through NMIT. Non-aviation courses needed to complete the Diploma are not included in this fee summary.

Note: Fees listed on this site are from 2008 and may change for 2009. They are indicative only and may vary with course selection. Exact fees can be confirmed as part of your enquiry or application.
*Programme fees: include GST, but an additional compulsory student association fee also applies.
#Course fees: include GST and the compulsory student association fee.

NMIT | Study Diploma in Aviation Science (ATPL) Courses in Nelson Marlborough (http://www.nmit.ac.nz/portal/TemplateID__1977428/TabID__3689/DesktopDefault.aspx)

Water Wings, where are you coming from? There seems to be the odd pilot at Eagle who do their best to make these guys feel unwelcome. They have done a very good job by all accounts and deserve recognition, why are some people so quick to judge them?

By the way, you won't find any flight hour requirements in the SOP.

Sounds like 'bank angle' was doing his job. A few too sensitive people around in this industry. If a parameter is exceeded it is the PNF'S job to call it, this shouldn't be taken personally by the handling pilot.
It's quite difficult as an fo to fly with skippers who do not have enough confidence in their own ability that they get upset whenever an fo just 'does his job'.:ugh:

Tall poppy syndrome strikes again.... Good on the guy, obviously takes some pride in what he does.

water wings - outing peoples identity is pretty bad form.

"what I'm really interested to know is who paid for it....." Thats good, were not! Jealous much? Better go read the definition of S.O.Ps dude.

tehoroto - Well said. Better to speak up than make the papers.

Hmmmm, ladies, are we floggin that dead horse again, the little ctc upstart....WAS DOING A FAMIL, IE: NOT EVEN PART OF THE OPERATING CREW SO HAS NO RIGHT TO SAY ANYTHING.

Hmmmm......I may have brought a 'Pandoras box' to the table with this thread, which has deviated somewhat from what I was originally inquiring about.

In the interim since I posted this thread, I have been trying to 'nut' out from other sources (yes there's life beyond PPrune :ooh: ) what my chances are now that the aviation gods have once again started playing hardball by stalling any mass recruitment, and, trying to quantify how long they intend to do this, is like trying to ascertain the depth of a hole.

So, what I am starting to see is that the proverbial goalposts are moving back, back in favour of the Employer. My chances are just like any other 'wannabe', but collectively we 'wannabes'are now starting to move in a quagmire, rather than the 'firm track' of the last couple years.

Apologies for the prosaic dirth, but I think the 1990's may be back. :{

water wings - outing peoples identity is pretty bad form.

I actually have no idea who komac2 is. My remark was sarcasim intended for all the people out their, not aimed at one individual but I could have worded it better. I apologise if this was misinterpreted.

Does anyone know any fact that Mt Cook are going to be parking ATRs over January / February with crew taking leave without pay? :confused:

Just the word going around down here.

Oh dear Oh dear!
'Always Inverted' you are either showing your inexperience in the industry or explaining the bloody reason why I must undergo a recurrent CRM course every 2 years. An extra pair of eyes on the flight deck will always be welcome on a flightdeck I am held responsible for, especially if the said eyes hold a pilots license.
Appologies if this is off topic but we have too many tossers in this industry who are only interested in themselves and not promoting a healthy cockpit environment. :ugh:

TH , Well said - there's too many egotistical sky god's in their first turboprop job with no concept of CRM or TEM ..

in regards to Eagle/CTC just notice this in one of the other Prune threads:

Yesterday, 12:42
You kiwi guys have some good news as well with Eagle (ANZ subsiduary) now coming online as a full partner. 2 guys just been interviewed today following the success of 2 guys on earlier NZ Cps

Press release:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
17 November 2008
Eagle Airways Provides Career Opportunities for CTC Wings Airline Pilots
Air New Zealand subsidiary Eagle Air says a new relationship with airline pilot training
organisation CTC Aviation is great news for young pilots looking to fast-track into an airline
career.
Eagle Air recently employed the first two New Zealanders to graduate from CTC’s
Commercial Pilot Programme in Hamilton, and today formally marked their graduation with a
function at CTC’s Crew Training Centre at Hamilton International Airport.
Eagle Air General Manager Grant Kerr says he has been impressed with the CTC graduates’
levels of knowledge, skill and professionalism.
“They’ve gone through line training with Eagle and they passed with flying colours. The very
airline-specific training they receive from the moment they join the CTC Wings programme
means, upon graduation, they possess the exact skills we require to be a First Officer with
Eagle Air,” he says.
The first New Zealanders to graduate from the CTC Wings Commercial Pilot Programme are
Joseph Lambert and Daniel Stark. They are employed with Eagle Air as First Officers based
out of Gisborne. Both young men grew up in Hamilton and are Hamilton Boys High
graduates.
Mr Kerr said the CTC Wings programme was advantageous to both the airline and young
pilots looking to get a start specifically in the airline business.
CTC works with a growing list of global airline partners, which includes British Airways,
CityJet, DHL Air, easyJet, easyJet Switzerland, Jet2.com, Jetstar Pacific, Monarch, Thomas
Cook and Thomsonfly.
“To date, one hundred percent of our graduates have obtained employment with one of
CTC’s partner airlines in Europe. And, globally, one of the benefits of training with CTC is
that cadets know we are focused on helping them gain employment,” said John Jones, CEO
of CTC Aviation New Zealand.
“Our relationship with Eagle Air allows us to demonstrate this key point to New Zealand
cadets as well. We can never guarantee employment, but there is more certainty for them.”
Mr Jones said applications coming in from New Zealanders are running high ever since the
company announced its CTC Wings programme was open to Kiwis in 2006.
He explained applicants recognise CTC Aviation is different from other aviation training
organisations because it has a sole focus on airline pilot training.
“CTC Aviation sets itself apart because we only train pilots for placement with airlines. For
someone with no flying experience, it takes around 18 months to complete our Commercial
Pilot Programme.
“Because we have this sole airline focus, we are able to customise recruitment solutions for
our airline partners around the globe. And, our rigorous selection process ensures our
partners are getting the very best airline pilots out there,” he said.


http://www.ctcwings.co.nz/pdfs/news/Eagle_CTC_partnership_announcement_17nov08.pdf

NZ division of NASA (Eagle) .


Love it

“They’ve gone through line training with Eagle and they passed with flying colours.”

Since when was failing a check considered 'Flying Colours?'

Not like they are the first ever to fail checks, hell this is Eagle we're talking about. But why the ego stroking bull:mad:?? Who the hell are they trying to fool. The only people that need convincing that these cadets can step up it seems are the majority of Eagle line pilots... and this will do nothing for the cause. :ugh:

Oh this is a tasty thread LOL.

From what I heard (source extremely reliable) "Bank Angle" as you call him here pulled a crew up when on a 1F famil flight! Hes not the first to do this either :ugh:

Bloody funny though:}

Does anyone know any fact that Mt Cook are going to be parking ATRs over January / February with crew taking leave without pay?

Just the word going around down here.

Ummm the answer is NO, it was mentioned by the powers that be but you must remember we are in negotiations and this sort of thing is standard company tactic.

Regardless of your views on the ctc career path and those who take it, is an undeniable fact that the rest of us had some of the best times and experiences of our life in GA that you will never ever see in 20,000hrs of airline nonsense.

If I had my time again Id still choose my all years of poverty and fun in GA over a huge debt and year 1 pay at eagle.

:ok:

Ummm the answer is NO, it was mentioned by the powers that be but you must remember we are in negotiations and this sort of thing is standard company tactic.

Thanks, I thought it sounded a bit weird when I heard it. :ok:

My thoughts exactly waren9!!!

Year one at Eagle is GA

True, i learnt heaps in GA about flying (and budgeting)and made some great mates, I wouldnt trade SOME of those experiences for anything.

As for speaking up on a famil, i think your damned if you do and damned if you dont.

"the little ctc upstart....WAS DOING A FAMIL, IE: NOT EVEN PART OF THE OPERATING CREW SO HAS NO RIGHT TO SAY ANYTHING."

What a load of bullsh!t. Just because your sitting in the back familing doesnt mean your a total leper. In the organisation i work for i can say with confidence that nobody would mock you if you were concerned and spoke up on a famil. I quess it come down down to how you approach things and whether the crews main concern is safety or saving face.
I find it pretty rich calling him an upstart when 70% of eagle F.O's had similar experince levels to him at this time last year.

still burning eh mattyj

Year one at Eagle is GA

You must have had a very sheltered GA progression MattyJ.
No turbine a/c capable of 1000ft/min s/e in my GA time....no multi-crew or air-conditioning either....or ops department organising everything, nor reliable engineering services or TCAS or EGPWS or refuellers or monthly rosters or staff travel and MBF contributions.....not even mobile phone coverage most of the time let alone access to a shop to buy food.....yeah eagle is reeaal tough, not sure how you do it !!:D

I know guys that fly citations, part 91..and theres a few twin turbines operating around on part 135..is that not GA?

I know guys that fly citations, part 91..and theres a few twin turbines operating around on part 135..is that not GA?
Yip...i reckon it probably is.
Still don't think that Eagle is GA though.It is way more airline than GA.

So.. who is interviewing around NZ as far as airlines go, and what is on the cards for the next 12 months?

Just have an opportunity to gain Single Pilot IFR in a Turbine Multi in my current job up until now it has been VFR only, but will mean another 12 to 24 months before I look at the airlines.

Suggestions (serious ones only please). Do I stay because things have slowed considerably or wait because things are going to be ramping up mighty quick soon?

I'd sit tight for awhile, get that IFR multi experience!! It’ll put you in good stead for later on when the link companies start more interviews. At the moment everyone is waiting on big brother.:ugh:

Thanks! I'll stick it out for another few years, actually quite enjoy the GA flying I'm doing at the moment! :ok:

Its going to be a long wait if you are waiting on the big koru. The holding pool they are creating is for use in about another year. And then we will all be p***ed when the new cadet scheme pilots are ready to go about then too I would say, to take their place.

Some interesting NZ Aviation figures:
2564 currently active aeroplane CPL/SCPL/ATPL NZ licences.
1912 aeroplanes are on the CAA register.
315 of those are multi engine.
244 after 71 Boeing and Airbus accounted for.
194 after 50 Link aircraft.
146 multi engine aeroplanes below a B200/Metro/J32 etc
(i.e approx whats left to get your experience on before getting out of GA)

add into the mix the new pilots being trained every year in the whole country, close to 360 CPL(A) for 2008, kinda puts things into perspective...

Edited: got some upto date figures, so now I will make this a new post/thread http://www.pprune.org/d-g-general-aviation-questions/353329-nz-scene-snapshot-stats.html

Prozac.....anyone ??!!

Thanks DeltaT for that illumination.:\ That is the type of information I need to collate in order to assess whether I get back into aviation or not. My heart says "go for it", my head says "nooooooo......"

On the flipside though, "you have to be in to win", as the analogy goes with Lotto.