Group Shares

[kuchemann carrots]

Hi,
I'm starting to look around for my first aircraft group with very limited knowledge. I have read the other threads and have taken the advice on board.
Having looked around, I have discovered that there is a very wide band of costs. Firstly, what should I expect for between £2-3000 in the 4 seat market. And what would be a good ball park figure for both monthly and hourly rates. I understand that the club needs to be charging enough, but also dont want to pay over the odds.
Finally, what are peoples thoughts on no-equity groups. I have researched one which is £110 p.m. and £70 p.h. (C172)
Thanks for your help.
KK

[Choxolate]

Well this is a very open ended question. For £2000 - £3000 the aircraft will depend on how many are in the group. With 4 or 5 in the group the only 4 seater that would probably be possible would be a tired Cherokee, with 12 in the group then you would be in the £35k range and could, maybe, get something half decent.

It does depend on the number of shares. The fewer shares then (generally) the higher the availability and (probably) a better looked after aircraft, the more shares then the lower the unit cost per member. I know this is fairl obvious but it does make your question almost impossible to answer.

I believe the legal maximum is 20 members - which at £3k a member is a £60k aircraft - with 2 members it is a £6k aircraft.

Monthly costs are usually somewhere between £50 and £150 depending on aircraft. whether it is hangared or not, how much is going into a contingency fund etc. etc.

You don't get owt for nowt

[119.35]

Choxolate is spot on. It all depends on the value of the aircraft and the number of people in the group. A big factor that affects the value of the aircraft and the subsequent share price is how many hours does the engine have left? Also, what sort of state the groups bank account is in and whether there is sufficient in the 'engine' fund to cover an impending replacement or any big mechanical bill that is on the horizon? Bearing in mind that a 172 recon engine is probably circa £12k and a new one circa £20k.

Is the non-equity group that you have found £70 per hour 'wet'? Prices do vary region to region, but I doubt very much that you will be able to beat that price if it is £70 per hour wet?

To give you a comparison, I'm in a 172 'equity' group based in Norfolk and pay £65 per hour wet (plus £50 per month fixed and £135 club membership per annum).

Shares in aircraft are notoriously difficult to sell. So I would certainly consider a non-equity group if you can find a good one which also avoids the risk of any future unforeseen bills/expenditure.

Good luck!

[Maoraigh1]

Besides the plane, check on the groups financial position. If a group has a sensible engine fund, then engine hours don't matter. If it does not, then the share devalues with every hour flown. Check on the age of the instruments and avionics, as well as the airframe.
Shares are not easy to sell. However I calculated that less than 70 hours would give me a profit over renting when I bought a group share in January 1990. I flew that within a year. I'm still in the group.