Vliegenier
2nd Nov 2008, 13:49
Hi everyone, yes I am a wannabe too. I want to give up the joys of self employment for the joys of flying. I have some very good options, but I'm not sure which would be the best way to go, so I'm putting it out there for you to read and maybe get some good feedback. I am 48, and not so naive that I think I can climb the ladder with one of the majors. Financially I am secure, though not rich, and will eventually need to earn some money, but that is not the biggest motivator for now. I've been living in Ireland for 10 years now. Before that I spend 10 years in Las Vegas where I learned to fly. I have my FAA PPL, with an IFR and ME rating, and a total time of 240 hours. Here are my options as I see them:
1) Move to Florida and get my commercial cert. Enroll in one of those schools that offer "First Officer Training" like Jet Uni, or Gulfstream Academy, and hopefully if and when things pick up, get a job with a commuter. Once I have sufficient hours, I would do my ATP, and apply with a fractional operator, where I have good connectiions. The advantages to moving there are: I have a place to stay (until my father in law sells his appartment which will not be easy in this market), the weather. And I think the total training time will be the quickest.
The disadvantages are: Moving to the US. I lived there for 20 years and would prefer the continent where I am from. I'll have to pay for medical insurance for the family. There are no part time jobs in my field where I could earn some extra money until I get hired. I have no connections in the aviation world in Florida.
2) Could move to Las Vegas again. I have loads of connections there. Friends who are CFI's and friends who own twins. They would gladly help me get my commercial and get me more twin time economically. Could get my CFI as well and work at that a bit. My captain friend would help me get a job if there are any. The advantages there: My connections and the weather. Loads of p/t jos in my former line of work (casinos) which provide good health insurance. The disadvantages: Will have to buy a house, or blow $1500 a month on rent. Also, no schools that offer FOT courses. I know they are not the greatest way to go but those schools do taut about how they offer High altitude training, Jet/Turbine training, CRM,
line training etc. to "professional standards". That has to account for something because when times were good, guys were getting hired by commuters straight out of those schools, with minimal hours. I feel it would take longer to get hired and I might be less competitive. After all, once there's a job opening there will be loads of applicants fresh out of these schools. All I have to offer are some ratings and hopefully the required minimum hours, but little knowledge of jets & turbo props.
Then there is option 3, which I was not aware of until I started reading these forums (and thanks for the good info): I could stay in Ireland and try to convert my license. Ok, FAA paper isn't much good here, but surely the 240 hrs I have account for something? I would be able to keep my business, which affords me plenty of free time and a descent income, and go for a frozen ATPL. Could do most of the ground work on line too. The advantages are: Wouldn't have to make a costly move, wouldn't have to sell the house, cars, furniture & appliances at a huge loss, keep VHI, keep the business.
The disadvantages are: Living in Ireland. The people here are the nicest, but the weather is truely always crap. It's too expensive to live here, and it is not a good place to raise our daughter with class sizes approching 40 students or more (she's only 21 months. I know, I start everything late in life.). The training will take far longer here than in the US, but I read that airlines in Europe will hire guys with only 250 hrs, so surely the smaller operators will too. And my age may be a problem here. In the US they have raised the retirement age for ATP's to 65. At the fractionals and cargo runners there is no age limit; you only need to pass you medical every 6 months after a certain age I think.
So, what would you do? Is there a job prospect out there for a 48 year old rookie (50+ by the time I get my ATPL)? Or should I go to the States?I'd be happy enough flying for low cost airlines eventually, or any of the not so glamerous flying jobs, and I'm not looking to make a 6 figure salary.
I am fully aware of the hardships I have to endure (heared the horror stories from my pilot friends), but most importantly, the old ball & chain is very supportive, and is willing to suffer right along side me. I welcome any and all comments, hints or suggestions from anyone, especially those in the know. No need to sugarcoat it either, I can take it
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Vliegenier
1) Move to Florida and get my commercial cert. Enroll in one of those schools that offer "First Officer Training" like Jet Uni, or Gulfstream Academy, and hopefully if and when things pick up, get a job with a commuter. Once I have sufficient hours, I would do my ATP, and apply with a fractional operator, where I have good connectiions. The advantages to moving there are: I have a place to stay (until my father in law sells his appartment which will not be easy in this market), the weather. And I think the total training time will be the quickest.
The disadvantages are: Moving to the US. I lived there for 20 years and would prefer the continent where I am from. I'll have to pay for medical insurance for the family. There are no part time jobs in my field where I could earn some extra money until I get hired. I have no connections in the aviation world in Florida.
2) Could move to Las Vegas again. I have loads of connections there. Friends who are CFI's and friends who own twins. They would gladly help me get my commercial and get me more twin time economically. Could get my CFI as well and work at that a bit. My captain friend would help me get a job if there are any. The advantages there: My connections and the weather. Loads of p/t jos in my former line of work (casinos) which provide good health insurance. The disadvantages: Will have to buy a house, or blow $1500 a month on rent. Also, no schools that offer FOT courses. I know they are not the greatest way to go but those schools do taut about how they offer High altitude training, Jet/Turbine training, CRM,
line training etc. to "professional standards". That has to account for something because when times were good, guys were getting hired by commuters straight out of those schools, with minimal hours. I feel it would take longer to get hired and I might be less competitive. After all, once there's a job opening there will be loads of applicants fresh out of these schools. All I have to offer are some ratings and hopefully the required minimum hours, but little knowledge of jets & turbo props.
Then there is option 3, which I was not aware of until I started reading these forums (and thanks for the good info): I could stay in Ireland and try to convert my license. Ok, FAA paper isn't much good here, but surely the 240 hrs I have account for something? I would be able to keep my business, which affords me plenty of free time and a descent income, and go for a frozen ATPL. Could do most of the ground work on line too. The advantages are: Wouldn't have to make a costly move, wouldn't have to sell the house, cars, furniture & appliances at a huge loss, keep VHI, keep the business.
The disadvantages are: Living in Ireland. The people here are the nicest, but the weather is truely always crap. It's too expensive to live here, and it is not a good place to raise our daughter with class sizes approching 40 students or more (she's only 21 months. I know, I start everything late in life.). The training will take far longer here than in the US, but I read that airlines in Europe will hire guys with only 250 hrs, so surely the smaller operators will too. And my age may be a problem here. In the US they have raised the retirement age for ATP's to 65. At the fractionals and cargo runners there is no age limit; you only need to pass you medical every 6 months after a certain age I think.
So, what would you do? Is there a job prospect out there for a 48 year old rookie (50+ by the time I get my ATPL)? Or should I go to the States?I'd be happy enough flying for low cost airlines eventually, or any of the not so glamerous flying jobs, and I'm not looking to make a 6 figure salary.
I am fully aware of the hardships I have to endure (heared the horror stories from my pilot friends), but most importantly, the old ball & chain is very supportive, and is willing to suffer right along side me. I welcome any and all comments, hints or suggestions from anyone, especially those in the know. No need to sugarcoat it either, I can take it
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Vliegenier