Where to go in Florida?

[Treanair]

Hi all.

Im an irish student wishing to complete part of my training in Florida. I currently have an irish ppl and the 14atpl exams passed.
I wish to bulid 70hrs, do a night rating, JAA CPL SEP and a JAA multi engine rating. I'll then do my multi IR back in Ireland.
The schools i have been looking at so far are Orlando Flight Training, Ormond Beech Aviation and European Flight Training.
Does anyone have any good/bad experience of these or am i over looking somewhere?
Any other tips/advice would be appreciated.
Thanks

[vlieger]

Don't go to any of the JAA schools for hour-building, they are quite a lot more expensive than the FAA schools. If I were you I'd first build my hours in one of the cheaper FAA only schools in Daytona Beach, for example. Try
flyaussieair.com (http://www.flyaussieair.com/) (website down at the moment apparently)
or
Air America Flight Center, LLC - The Leading Flight School and Aircraft Rental Center in Daytona Beach, Florida (http://www.airamericafc.com/)
They're decent and cheap, I know people (students and instructors) who have been there. You can take the planes overnight and do some really long cross-countries (Bahamas!), something that is impossible at OBA as you only get $3 back per gallon (pricey).
Just make sure you have applied for an FAA PPL licence before you get here, otherwise you'll be wasting your time (very common mistake for JAA hour-builders) as you need that piece of paper!!
As for CPL and ME, I only know about guys who have done it at OBA. Good instructors, though plane availability is a problem at times, and of course don't be foolish to think that Florida weather is perfect. It's not, sometimes you lose a whole week because of weather (granted, mainly during the PPL stage when doing solo X-countries, this is less an issue for CPL. That said, when I was there in April some CPL guys had been there months and were not happy at all).
To be honest, I would only build my hours in Florida, which is perfect for that kind of thing (just challenge yourself to go into busy airspace, go to Jacksonville or Savannah, good fun. Don't simply burn holes in the sky but plan proper routes, maintain a set altitude and heading, etc.). CPL I would do in England as you'll need that experience of the British airspace.

[Treanair]

Thanks for replys guys.
Slight change of plan now. I am now going to travel to Florida just for hour building to begin with. I think ill go with Air America Flight Centre. ($68 an hour for their C150 sounds good to me?) While im over there ill visit a few schools and see which would be most suitable for CPL, Multi rating etc.
Ive been told a few conflicting stories, which i hope someone will be able to clear up.

Heres my understanding:

1. Verification of Foreign Licence: I need to fill out application form and send to FAA along with copies of my JAA PPL and JAA Medical. But, do i need to first do a night rating? Ive been told the FAA PPL entitles you to fly at night, and therefore i need to do my night rating before i go?

2. TSA: Only needed for multi rating? Not needed for hour building / CPL / night rating?

3. M1 Visa: Only needed for training (CPL / Multi / Night) But not needed to hour build? Can i apply for M1 Visa now, or do i need to first pick school and get them to send me I-20 application form?

Lastly, i have been told that if i just get a FAA Medical, I will be able to do a checkout with an aircraft rental company / FAA school, and hour build till my hearts content, as if I was a solo FAA student? Sounds a bit dodge, but if anyone can offer any wisdom on this?

Thanks again.

[mcgoo]

1, you need to fill out a form on the FAA website here:

Airmen Certification: Verify the Authenticity of a Foreign License, Rating, or Medical Certification (http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/foreign_license_verification/)

and fax them back to FAA and CAA (CAA will charge you about £40 for the priviledge), you need to start this about 90 days before you are due to go, mind you if you fax the forms it will happen a lot quicker, mine took two weeks.
There is no night rating just a night qualification, 3 hours dual, 2 solo, although I think if you don't have this they can mark your FAA license with a no night restriction.

2, Correct
3, Correct and yes you need to get an I-20 off a school to start the visa process.
Last one is wrong, you need to have at least the FAA based on license to fly PIC in the US.

[nh2301]

You can fly PIC with just a medical/student pilot certificate, however you'd have to be solo, every cross country flight would have to be endorsed by an instructor, and you'd have to have training first.

It's a lot of limitations given the ease of picking up a based-on FAA cert. You'll have more fun if you can fly with the friends you meet, etc.

[tbavprof]

Would need the TSA to do a multi or CPL.

[Matthew Adams]

Would need the TSA to do a multi or CPL.

Not for CPL.

At Primary level only required for:

Inital flight training
Multi Engine Training
Instrument Training

[MetalGear]

hi,
I just got back from hour building in florida. Went with Aussie Air. Tricky to get the hours I wanted to do, due to availability and in the begining they wanted me to do it all at night. I was a bit reluctant to begin doing 4hrs per night due to the fact I had just gotten my night rating.
The night rating i got at oba. They told me i didn't need TSA/Visa or any of that stuff which saved a lot of paper work. Also their price includes accomm. Just went over on the visa waiver program and got 50 hrs in 3 weeks and a night rating.

[BigGrecian]

The night rating i got at oba.

I'm pretty impressed that you confessed to violating US Immigration Law on an open forum. :bored:

[nh2301]

Doesn't really sound like he did.

Hour building and night rating don't need a visa.

[User_Irish88]

Hey check out the flight school in venice here. (http://www.fftc.info/) Or check out Flight Safety (http://www.flightsafetyacademy.com/) in vero beach which is a good location as its an easy location to hours build from. Anywhere in Florida is a good place to hours build just because there are millions of airports. Quite alot of airspace aswel including a huge military area in central florida

[BigGrecian]

No such thing as a night rating; however the night qualification involves training, which in turn falls under an M1 visa - ask USCIS they're more than happy to oblige, and tell people when they're out of status. :E

Agreed, for hour building no visa required.

[nh2301]

Less than 18 hours trainging and not the purpose of his visit, which was hour building. Such a short period of training doesn't qualify for a visa. He couldn't get one if he applied for it.

Information on what does and does not require a visa is available on USCIS's website. I suggest reading before giving people the wrong advice.

[BigGrecian]

I am fully aware what constitutes an M1 Visa, regarding the 18 hour of study a week.

However, US Immigration, and particularly the officer for South East Florida, will be more than happy to inform you that flight training of any kind requires a visa, and was more than happy to send someone home during my time in the states this year. "If training is required, visa is required" is how it was summarised.

Agreed, the reference material is grey, and sometimes hard to find.

I certainly wouldn't take the chance.
I just pity the guy who was sent home / or to the Bahamas to change his visa :ok:

[nh2301]

It's not grey at all, it's black and white.

Who exactly would go to the expense of travelling, getting the visa and returning for the sake of a few hours training? It would be cheaper just to finish in the UK, if that were the case. Your story makes no sense.

If it's a full time course of study (more than 18 hours per week) and the primary purpose of your visit, you do need a visa. Otherwise, you can use the visa waiver program.

This stuff isn't complicated. The rules are simple and well spelt out. If you don't understand, you shouldn't be giving people advice or criticising them for doing something entirely legal.

[purpleplane]

Flight safety in vero beach are excellent.

[B2N2]

hi,
I just got back from hour building in florida. Went with Aussie Air. Tricky to get the hours I wanted to do, due to availability and in the begining they wanted me to do it all at night. I was a bit reluctant to begin doing 4hrs per night due to the fact I had just gotten my night rating.
The night rating i got at oba. They told me i didn't need TSA/Visa or any of that stuff which saved a lot of paper work. Also their price includes accomm. Just went over on the visa waiver program and got 50 hrs in 3 weeks and a night rating

MetalGear, I assume you did you time building on a US "restricted" Certificate?
Or do you hold a full FAA PPL?

In case of the restricted certificate all of your night flying is dodgy.
The restricted is called restricted because it carries all of the restrictions of the foreign license it is based on.
The night qualification at OBA was not added to it yet.
So even though you did the night qualification it wasn't added yet to your foreign license. So you did not hold the proper certification to fly at night in the US on a N-registered airplane.

From the pft website mentioned above:

Professional Flight Training's offices are open Monday through Saturday from 8 am to 5 pm. They are closed on Sunday. Flight Instruction is available seven days per week including early mornings and evenings. Professional Flight Training does not permit overnight travel, trips out of state, and/or to the Bahamas.

Due to the intense nature of our programs, on time attendance is a must. A student must cancel his/her lesson with the school a minimum of 24 hours in advance of any scheduled flight or ground instruction. If a student is twenty minutes or more late for a lesson, then the lesson will be canceled and the student will be charged as a “No Show”. Also, if a student reports for a lesson and does not meet the school's minimum financial requirements for receiving instruction, then the lesson will be canceled and the student will be charged as a no-show. If a student incurs three no show fees within a thirty day period, the student may be asked to leave the program and will be charged as if the lesson had taken place.

That's pretty harsh.....

[BigGrecian]

I think the no show policy is perfectly fair.
Most schools have similar policies.

If you have even one no show(s) you probably need to evaluate whether you have the personal standards required to be a pilot...

Also if the instructor who gave the night training gave the night endorsement, then that makes your FAA PPL valid at night even though it's based on the JAA licence, which doesn't have the night qualification yet.

[B2N2]

If you have even one no show(s) you probably need to evaluate whether you have the personal standards required to be a pilot...

No show is always possible, for whatever reason. You're dealing with people here remember.

Also if the instructor who gave the night training gave the night endorsement, then that makes your FAA PPL valid at night even though it's based on the JAA licence, which doesn't have the night qualification yet.

Sorry, have to disagree with you again......
No it doesn't. FAA PPL includes the night, there is no night qualification under FAA.
The only night exemption is if you reside and take your flight training in Alaska.
You cannot claim privileges, for which you have taken the training, that are not listed on your certificate yet.
The FAA restricted carries all limitations listed on the foreign license; if there are no night privileges on your foreign license you cannot fly at night..period.
They have to be added first by the CAA, then you need to apply for a new restricted.

Consider this scenario:

Lets say I hold a JAA PPL SEP. I apply for and receive a US certificate based on it.
I take MEP training at one of the JAA approved schools in the US.
I pass a skills test with a JAA examiner.
So training is completed and skills test passed.
Can I now go fly a N-registered twin solo (or with passengers even) because I have done the training?


I DON'T THINK SO.....




Remember, the US restricted I hold carries all the privileges and restrictions of my JAA PPL (SEP)

[BigGrecian]

Out of 5 schools I flew at they all had similar no show policies, and they were UK/USA/Cyprus. A valid reason is obviously OK, but something like sleeping in, or late were not accepted after the first warning.

Your correct there is no night qualification under FAA.

I know of at least 6 schools who use this method to send Foreign Licence pilots solo at night.

Your local FSDO will be able to verify that as long as you have the current bi-annual (Something which isn't in the FARs but is in the DPE handbook) and night endorsement your good to go.
Part of the basis of this is because, the night is not a RATING, and works in the same way as say; a complex endorsement.

And the last scenario doesn't work because a multi engine is a RATING.

Neither does a JAA PPL say anywhere that the "privileges may not be
exercised at night" there is no worded restriction on the JAA Licence.

It's all in the tiny technical details. :ok:

[nh2301]

There are two separate night flying endorsements. One is for private pilots who have completed their flight training in Alaska, and have then completed night training. This confers no privileges but must be shown to an examiner to have a certificate reissued without the night flying limitation.

The night flight endorsement which would be useful in this case is the one which is more commonly given to a student pilot, which allows solo night flight, subject to limitations. In the twin example, an instructor could also issue an endorsement to act as PIC of an airplane for which the pilot is not rated, which would allow the pilot to fly solo before licence issue by JAA in exactly the same way.

This is different from a complex endorsement, as they would have student privileges only. No passengers, etc.