29th Oct 2008, 17:36
Are these suitable words when you clear pilots to deviate for WX?
- TS on route. Report if you need avoiding action.
- Report avoiding action completed etc.
29th Oct 2008, 17:51
I wouldn't use the phrase avoiding action for weather - it's more for urgent action instigated by the controller to avoid a collision (or, maybe, a loss of separation). I tend to use 'advise if you wish to deviate...'.
29th Oct 2008, 19:57
I agree with Spitoon. "Avoiding action" implies that separation is lost or is about to be lost, and the instruction given along with it may be necessary to prevent a collision.
"Weather avoidance" is a pretty good term to use, depending on the standard of English of the pilot in question. I usually give try to give own navigation rather than a specified heading to get around weather, unless separation demands otherwise or the pilot has suggested the heading he/she needs. Then I'll say "report when able to accept vectors" or "report when able to accept a [direction] turn" and this seems to keep most people happy.
29th Oct 2008, 20:36
I would go with "weather avoidance" too. Is there anything in PANS-ATM?
I remember (a NATS?) "avoiding action" working group a few years ago; title still makes me smile :)
29th Oct 2008, 21:18
Completely agreed! That's for URGENT action. It's originated from our teachers at work here in Moscow ATCC.
Scooby Don't, we don't vector around CBs, too. All we need is to know crew's
intentions BEFORE 'avoiding action' into prohibited area.
29th Oct 2008, 21:50
At my academy (Entry Point North, Sweden) we are instructed to use (for weather avoidance when turn requested by pilot):
"XXX turn approved. Report clear of buildups/CB's"
If we initiate the turn ourselves we use the phrase "turn left by XXX degrees, avoiding weather".
The phrase "avoiding action" is reserved for - well - 4uck-ups:)
31st Oct 2008, 19:42
well,I`d rather say "deviate" for weather and "avoid" for a quick action due to anothe traffic.:cool:
31st Oct 2008, 20:59
Having thought about it bit more...
Weather avoidance is something that pilots normally request (rather then being offered). We then give clearances according to that request. This means that there is no real need to mention weather avoidance in phraseology (as the pilot knows already!).
Weather information on the ATC radar is useful (when displayed) to help anticipate requests for weather avoidance from pilots, but not as a sole means of determining the extent of and issuing 'avoiding' instructions.
1st Nov 2008, 10:24
Imperator1300, these are the features of our overrestricted area (see location). We can't allow ourselves even an immediate pilot's report about having started to deviate - too late if he goes left instead of right. Every deviation must be agreed in advance if you don't want to write explanatories afterwards. Hope, you understand. So I gave you an example at the very beginning:
"TS on route. Report if you need avoiding action."
That's why summer is a real hassle for us.
3rd Nov 2008, 00:34
Every country that I have worked in has always reserved the use of "Avoiding action" for last minute ooopps, got it wrong, turn for traffic :(
The words "Avoiding Action" were supposed to grab the attention of the pilots and elicit an immediate response, similar to "Expedite" for climb/descent.
If weather is an issue then I justl advise pilots "CB's reported over XXX, advise if you need to deviate".
If they come back "request deviation left/right of course (or 20 degrees etc) due weather" then I approve such, "Deviation left/right/as required, cleared direct XXX when able" etc.
The "avoiding action" bit was purely separation based, not wx.