Does anyone have an idea what tax plus all the extras such as pension etc an expat has to pay when working for a German company but not residing there?

Hi there,
first of all, where DO you live?

Hey there,

I live in the UK.

Most of the flying is not in Germany either so it's just down to the fact that my income originates in Germany from a German company.

The grey area is the social tax side of things. Basic income tax is understandable but if I don't actually live in the country, am I still required to pay the added extras such as health, state pension etc. etc. as I pay for this in the UK? Solidarity tax?:confused:

Any help is much appreciated!:ok:

Well, the other way around works like this. You pay social security and tax in the UK. You then get a document stating that you paid social security in the UK, this document is then used to get a "KrankenKasse" card in Germany so that you can go to a doctor like a German tax payer would be able to. If the German authorities ask for income tax you present them with your P60 (or whatever it's called) to verify that you have paid tax in the UK. A double tax agreement between Germany and UK stops the German tax man from tax you again. End of problem.
I believe that in Germany the "basic" tax law looks at your issue as "Company based in Germany, you pay tax in Germany". Then you have to make your applicable tax deductions at the end of the tax year, ie 1st of Jan.

od

A double tax agreement between Germany and UK stops the German tax man from tax you again

In German its called Doppelbesteuerungsabkommen. Tax and health insurance are 2 seperate things btw. I worked in Luxembourg and residet in Germany, I paid my dues in Luexembourg, including health insurance, got a card of a german insurer and was covered i LUX and D.
Should not be a big deal.
Any "Steuerberater" (tax advisor) should be able to assist.

As far as I know you are required to pay both taxes and an social insurances in Germany and none in the UK. There are agreements among EU countries to mutually recognise contributions to each other's social system so that your able to claim benefits in the country that you live in.

If you earn for example 12x7.500 EUR in Germany, your deductions will look like this:

2.343,00 Wage tax
128,87 Solidarity supplement (for East Germany)
210,87 Church tax

522,38 Pension
110,25 Unemployment
308,16 Health
39,19 Nursing care

And you will end a up with a whopping 3.837,28 EUR.

Correct, but you don't have to pay church tax neither do you have to pay for health insurance as long as you get a private one, and they are cheaper then the 300-something mentioned here. Not 100% sure you have to pay for the pension either since you don't live here, however, I think you have to put money in to a private one then. Remember, if you stop working in Germany within the first 5 years, then you will loose you contributions. :ugh:
You can also make deductions for all sorts of things like living costs in two countries, any house loans in the UK, child care in the UK etc etc. My advice, get a German tax guy to do it for you!

od

Church tax - maybe, private health insurance - you are not eligible for a private insurance unless you have earned at least 44.100 EUR a year for the last three consecutive years.

Cheers guys...thanks for your contributions. Good info!:ok:

If you earn for example 12x7.500 EUR in Germany, your deductions will look like this:

2.343,00 Wage tax
128,87 Solidarity supplement (for East Germany)
210,87 Church tax

522,38 Pension
110,25 Unemployment
308,16 Health
39,19 Nursing care

And you will end a up with a whopping 3.837,28 EUR. who wants to work in germany if the taxes and other contributions are more than 50% of the gross income?:ugh::ugh::ugh: now i understand why i have so many working in non-EU airlines. they seem to excape the tax burden.

I don't want to say to much about the methods used.

You need to talk to an european tax adviser sooner rather than later.

If you don't all sorts of issues can arise which will hit you hard in the pocket until eventually they sort themselves out.

The normal method with IT consultants was for the consultant to actually work for a UK company (there are ones which only do this sort of thing or you can set it up yourself and do your own payroll) then the company be contracted to the customer for the provision of your service. Its actually not that bad doing it yourself and if you reg for VAT you can claim it back for all sorts of "office" supplys.

There are other offshore solutions (don't you love that phrase) which are supposed to be legal which are the ones I don't want to discuss but be very careful with these. An awful lot of very large tax bills landed on peoples door steps last year when the IR put a big effort in to bill everyone from the Y2K IT boom before the 7 years was up.

PS In no way am I qualified to give tax advice on the various methods of fiddling the tax system in the UK and Germany.

Hi Orangedriver,

can you explain a bit more what you mean with this;
Remember, if you stop working in Germany within the first 5 years, then you will loose you contributions. :eek:


I looked everywhere regarding that sentence. Could not find anything.

I presently work in D for about 4 years and would think about leaving D.

Hi Guys

Please be warned that the taxation in Germany for airline crews has changed! :{
Before 1.1.2007 you could pay Taxes where you live. This is the common legal way in all European countries.
If you fullfilled the legal criterias, which were more than 183 days away from Germany, your " Centrum of your Life" was not in Germany etc. etc. you had to pay taxes only for the amount of work you did in Germany.:ok:

THIS HAS CHANGED!

the amendmend is valid since 1.1.2007

The law makes an exemption for " Aircrews, working for a german company"
in this case you pay your taxes where the company has its base -) GERMANY!

This is aganinst all European law, Agreements between states (Doppelbesteuerungsabkommen) and (Gleichberechtigungsgrundsatz), which means that equal subjekts of law, should be treated equal.

Check this out!

A Hapag-Lloyd captain who flies planes and lives in Spain pays taxes in Germany, another Hapag-Lloyd captain lives next door to his collegue in Spain, but is a captain on a containership. He pays taxes in Spain. Same employer, same rank, but different taxes.:ugh: Wellcome to Germany:yuk:

Dont be fooled by promises of low taxes if living abroad. Get a good legal adviser for decicion making.

Blue skies

Lars

That's absolutely correct! I used to work for a German company, but be based in another European country. I only had to pay German taxes for the portion of my work that took place within German territory...

But this has changed. Be aware and talk to a tax advisor (= 'Steuerberater'). This will be money well spent (won't cost much!) and avoids a lot of problems for both you and your employer.

Best of luck!

Steuerberater
Doppelbesteuerungsabkommen
Gleichberechtigungsgrundsatz
KrankenKasse

you krauts have strage words and that's already a reason why not to work there.

my opinion about taxes: you can never win but the government you are paying your taxes for is always the big winner. sounds like in a casino to me.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

yes, you eingebildeter Blödmann, we have strange words. This is for people like you. Better stay away from this country with the strange words- we like them. And we do like also the strange words from other countries.

Yes, ther German language is full of funny, long words. My favourite word that I teach new flight attendants is "Mindesthaltbarkeitsdatum" for "best before date". But occasionally, German words are much shorter than the English term like "übermorgen" for "the day after tomorrow".

Hermann, calm down. No need to get personal. Don´t prove Blackadder to be right, when he once said:

"Bloody germans, can´t take a joke!"


you krauts have strage words and that's already a reason why not to work there.

Ever been to Poland? Now thats is complicated. Or Wales, for long words?

Your world is shrinking mate....

to be fair the brits have been taking the piss with the tax in Germany for bloody years.

And you have to understand them.

They really are nice people. Their sense of humour is there but has certain limits.

Understand that it isn't one country and what one german finds funny translated 300nm north or south won't work.

The dodging church tax and other such social tax's is considered worse than saying Princess Di was a bit of a slag and didn't have a clue what she was talking about when it came to land mines.

We are different, learn please to deal with it. Our generation of krauts are worth talking to.

Hi All

Im still registered as freelance here in the UK, but employed by a company in Germany and paying tax there ! My accountant here in the UK knows nothing of German tax, so I will need to contact a German Accountant/Tax adviser !

Anyone know of an accountant in the UK that could do both accounts ?

Spam Up

So here we are again, this time with a different company!!!

The company is not German but most of the flying is based out of Germany. Where do I have to pay tax? If I am spending most of my time in Germany but being paid from abroad, can I still opt to pay my health insurance in the UK (I am English)? I know they have a dual tax agreement and am therefore not concerned about income tax, It's the health and unemployment tax that is the killer!

know the feeling - check your PMs.

Wouldn't happen to be an Austrian company by any chance would it?

Hi guys,

Could any of you explain which would be net salary for a First Officer working for JetBird?
They offer 40000 EUR Gross and I am not German.

Thank you!

40000€ : 12= 3333 gross per month -> round about 1930 € net per month:{, single, no children!

Brutto-Netto-Rechner: Was von Ihrem Lohn noch übrig bleibt - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten - Wirtschaft (http://www1.spiegel.de/active/bruttonettorechner/fcgi/bnrget.fcgi)

Even you are not German, you have to pay tax there! Base Cologne!
Greetings

Assuming you are single, no kids, living in Germany and are a member of the church:

40000 gross

minus 8144 Tax
minus 695 Church Tax
minus 3160 mandatory Health Insurance
minus 560 mandatory "Loss of Work" Insurance
minus 3980 mandatory State-Pension-Scheme

leaves you with about 22970 Euro/year !!!:sad:

Hope that helps. There are several Tax.Calculators ("Steuerrechner" or "Gehaltsrechner") in the net (German language) like on www.focus.de (http://www.focus.de)

Cheers

SV

Hey, guess we figured out the same numbers!!

SV

Thanks AERO75,

My second question is:

Is this salary enough to live correctly, being single and having to rent a flat in Cologne?

Thanks again!!

Yes it should be enough. Cologne is not so expensive as Munich or Stuttgart.
For a small flat (near airport) you will pay round 450€ all incl..

Hope it helps

Has been really helpful!!!
Cheers

You are welcome, please check your pm.!

Cheers

You don't need to pay church tax.

You can opt out but they might send someone round to inform you that your chances of getting to heaven have been decreased by this choice. In my experience the Frau's in the HR department have a real problem with you doing this. They will lie and bugger up the paper work so the church can get the money.

Also if you are a Brit you can pay class C national insurance over here and get reciprocal health cover in Germany. I paid 7-10 pounds a month and got a insurance card with full cover which my other colleagues reckoned was worth in the order of 3000 DM a year.

My German accountant cost 600DM a year and boy was she worth it.