Prince Harry to become Helicopter Pilot

[Aerospace101]

Sky reports he is 'undergoing selection'

Being a sunday evening I assume he is actually at OASC now? That is if he has to do aptitude tests for AAC...

[Archimedes]

It would appear that he does:

BBC Report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7692010.stm)

[MerlinV8]

Right Harry, take a seat....

Tell us what aircraft you would use to impress your girlfriend with?

The biggest and most expensive one I could find sir! but it has to be able to land in the back yard sir, maybe a Harrier sir!?

[serf]

BBC report this morning indicated that he would be non operational!

[The Helpful Stacker]

BBC report this morning indicated that he would be non operational!

If he ends up on Gazelles or Lynx thats a bit of a given isn't it?

They're hardly likely to send him to Iraq or Afghanistan on Lynx as it'd struggle to lift his bodyguards in the back as well as anything else useful at the same time.

[dallas]

The article does say there's around a 50% failure rate for selection. :hmm:

Somehow I think he'll scrape through...

[The Helpful Stacker]

Do you think he'll follow the usually AAC career path for officers though?

I wonder if the press will be as interested when he is propped against a desk at Wilton?

[dallas]

I've a sneaking feeling he'll have his eye on Apache, even if its denied here.

[The Helpful Stacker]

But if he is going to be non-operational what would be the point in training him on the Apache?

At least William will fulfill a useful role on the SAR fleet carrying out a UK operational tasking. What is the non-operational role of the Apache?

[Flik Roll]

The Sun says Harry wants Apache HERE (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/royals/article1858787.ece) :ok:

[The Helpful Stacker]

Well good luck to him.

I hope that if he does qualify and makes it onto the Apache he will get the chance to go back on ops as its obviously something he really wants to do.

[HARRIERPILOTNAS]

Just a Bit of Banter:- Here's another one of the Royals that Will Wake up on Morning and find there Wings in a Corn Flakes Packet!! :ok:

[Gainesy]

if he does qualify and makes it onto the Apache he will get the chance to go back on ops

I think that's probably his cunning plan to get back on ops.:):ok:

[dallas]

But if he is going to be non-operational what would be the point in training him on the Apache?
None I suppose - it'd be a bit like training CAS on Typh... None I suppose.

The Sun says Harry wants Apache HERE (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/royals/article1858787.ece) http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif
Crikey, I should be on telly as a 'military expert'.

Has Wills got his scraper yet, by the way?

[Aerospace101]

Apparently he has passed the 'aptitude' tests so well done to him.

What does AAC grading consist of? is it like the fleet air arm grading?

[airborne_artist]

What does AAC grading consist of? is it like the fleet air arm grading?

Yes - according to Armed Forces - a7a3.1 - British Army - Army Aviation - Army Air Corps - Aircrew Selection and Training (http://www.armedforces.co.uk/army/listings/l0091.html)

"Army Flying Grading (AFG) is conducted at Middle Wallop. This consists of 13 hours, over a three week period, in a Slingsby Firefly 160. The aim of this course is to test aptitude in a live flying environment and to identify whether students have the capability to become an Army pilot."

In the good old days we had the opportunity to solo on RN FAA grading, Wx allowing, but I know that this has been withdrawn from 727.

[Faithless]

Just a Bit of Banter:- Here's another one of the Royals that Will Wake up on Morning and find there Wings in a Corn Flakes Packet!!

:=Not so if he goes AH.......It will be hard work all the way through...No gizits in the AH world :(

[Mikhail Sharpowicz]

So He'll be going to Wattisham if he stays SAR at 22 Sqn, or if he gets Apache, at 3 or 4 Regt. Poor Fella...

Oops - not reading properly. :ugh: Spent too much time away in sunny Greece. Maybe we'll get both of the Royals!!!

[Gainesy]

I think someone is a tad confused.:)

[hulahoop7]

I wonder who did the aptitude test for him? Did it involve painting a picture?
I can't imagine he'd be too fast with his mathematics.

[airborne_artist]

Did it involve painting a picture? and with his art teacher nearby, it is alleged (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/may/10/schools.alevels2004)?

[Rossian]

Geeeez! What is it with you guys? This subject always seems to bring out the mean-minded, petty chisellers sniping away from behind their noms-de-plume. Do you ever realise how you come across to other readers? A lady I knew a long time ago categorised such people as sh88ty pr*cks which I think sums them up perfectly.
The Ancient Mariner

[1.4G]

This is prune, the military forum mate. Just sad ex military people with nothing better to do with their time.

[hulahoop7]

Are you sure your first name is not Charles?

I always find the biggest sh88ty pr*cks to be those people who cheat to get ahead. They can sometimes end up in the dangerous position where their lack of capabilites puts others at risk.. you know like being a pilot of a helicopter with a load of blokes in the back..etc etc.

But I guess its a great British tradition to have the oaf running the show.

[Tourist]

Hulahoop.

If, after training, he is a danger then fair enough to give him sh1t on here.

To judge him before he is given a chance just makes you a small minded jealous tw@t.

[percyprune]

:*

Christ, give the guy a break!!!

There are 2 ROYALS who want to serve, all be it in limited capacities and all that happens is that they get slagged off! :confused::confused:

UK military is on its knees, poor motivation, poor equipment and poor civil perception :mad:

Now, potentially there are two young gentlemen of high birth who want to do their best for their country. One of them will be King! And supposedly, mostly you, the very people who have signed on for the Piece of Silver have an issue with it :ugh:

Give them a break, let them find out what is happening, give them time to mature in service, don't look at only today about you, but the future, when they are in their 40's, King and Prince, with their hand's on experience behind them. At least then there will be someone of influence who will understand what HM FORCE'S have to deal with.

Or is it expected that Euan Blair and Brown Minor will come to the colours and educate the useless and self serving politicians and their ilk about what being a soldier, sailor or airman is!!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes: :oh::oh:

Good luck Harry and Will's, enjoy, absorb and learn!!! :ok::ok:

[spheroid]

UK military is on its knees

No its not.

poor motivation

Well, thats your fault - its your job

poor equipment

Some of it is.....but some of it is first rate.

poor civil perception

Possibly

One of them will be King!

One of them may be King!

[percyprune]

spheroid

My point was simply this:

The UK military is stretched to its limits. On its knee's was the wrong way to put it. However I typed that after two bottles of a good red, so my thougth process was a bit muddled :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Motivation and leadership must come from and be directed from above, be it from a Flag rank or from a lance corporal. If there is a percieved lack of such motivation then the system will break down. The lack of such leadership from politicians will only exacerbate the situation. As an individual I can be motivated and I can try to motivate those around me, but it is not always an easy situation. Only this morning I was discussing this with a line engineer about motivation and qualification. He made the point to me that there are individuals who have lesser qualifications and types than he has, but who are in QA and recieve more pay! Thats fine if an individual wants to be in a QA position, but for the dedicated liney's it seems a tad unfair that they percieve themselves as worth less for the hands on job that they do.
There is also the new and unsavoury influence of H and S to deal with, where the line between sensible and ridiculous is being blurred. Penalizing troops while in theatre for speeding on the ramp on a call out or dictating that standby crews cannot have a particular type of food, is taking things a little too far!
Equipment: Agreed, some excellent, some not. However, the fact of the matter is that procurement and planning is quite often playing catch up with what is required in the field. Look at the lack of winches on the battlefield helicopters, which was only resolved after the mine field disaster.
Civil perception: Once again, the perception felt within the Forces that they are not appreciated for what they do by the general civilian population. There are examples of fantastic support, the Red Arrows auction, which raised over 1.5 million pounds, however, the feeling on the ground within the Armed Forces at squaddie, sailor and airman level is that they are overstretched, under equiped and not appreciated for what they do. The fact that they are proud, motivated and have a burning desire to do the best they can is simply not appreciated.As for the future King, he should be one of the two unless their father wants to hang in there indefinitely!!!

At the end of the day, all I am trying to say is, is that it is better to have someone at their level on board, than not.

percy :ok:

[FCWhippingBoy]

Sorry if this has been answered somewhere else ...

OK, so William was born 21 Jun '82, which means that at the time he served in the South Atlantic, Andrew was 2nd in line to the thrown and was unlikely to be king unless something happenned to Charles.

Currently, Harry is 3rd in line and is unlikely to become king unless something happens to William.

What exactly is the difference between Andrew's circumstances in '82 and Harry's now?

Granted, the publicity would potentially be greater these days, but surely the opposition knew of Andrew's presence in theatre in '82 also?

I can understand the reason for denying William the opportunity to serve operationally, but why Harry?

[knowitall]

"I can understand the reason for denying William the opportunity to serve operationally, but why Harry? "

last time i checked the argentinians didn't cut prisoners heads off and broadcast it over the internet

nor did we have the world wide web and 24 hour news channels reporting Prince Andrews every move in 1982


times change

[zorab64]

It's sad the Military should be slagging off their colleagues so readily (you're meant to stick together, girls & boys), it just sounds like snobbish jealousy - especially given the Times report today that both support for, and recruitment into, the Services is significantly greater than in recent years/months.

The Services have an ability (and the funds) to train to a level that is unaffordable in Civvy Street - and are highly regarded as a result. Military Wings are not "gifted" to those unable to cut the mustard, although those of slightly lesser ability may be posted to slightly less demanding roles / aircraft. Sadly if HARRIERPILOTNAS is actually anything like that, he does not put his Service or his trade in a good light by his poor use of basic English, however bigotted - (it's "their" cornflakes, not "there". Post #13).

See thread in Rotorheads for more! :)

[Faithless]

Well said Percyprune.

Good luck Harry and Will's, enjoy, absorb and learn!!!

Harry has had combat experience and wants to return...Hats off to him :D

All this is new to William as he lacks combat experience....he has tasted flight after serving with all three services and wants to fly as a career.

You should be privileged and honoured he wants to fly with RAF.

To Royals serving Granny & Country, and for the respect they give to all three services, I for one take my hat off to them.

Well done lads and welcome to the best area in the Military.....Aviation.... What ever service it be! :D:D

[airborne_artist]

And he passed:

"Prince Harry (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/fc/prince-harry.html) is to train to become an Army Air Corps (AAC) helicopter pilot after passing the unit's selection process, Clarence House has said."

He has passed grading, it says.

Full info (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20081211/tuk-harry-chosen-to-be-helicopter-pilot-6323e80.html)

[NickGooseBrady]

I have it on very good account that he didn't go to the bar at Wallop once until he had squared away his checks. He was also a little slow at picking up CCT flying but otherwise nailed it. He has passed just like anyone else. Well done Sir! Not bad for a "Strawberry Blonde" either.

[PPRuNeUser0139]

Good luck..!
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/Geoff_Cooper/ani2.gif

[FLY 7]

:ok: on passing the selection process.

Personally think it's great that William and Harry are carving out their military careers in helicopters.

And, :ok::ok::ok: to Harry for presiding over the 'Children of Courage Awards' at Westminster Abbey earlier this week. Those who were there said he was absolutely brilliant.

[midsomerjambo]

Quote "To complete the flying course, the Prince spent 13 hours in a Slingsby T67 light aircraft receiving lessons from an instructor but did not have to fly solo."

How come he didn't get to solo? I'd have thought for the stude's own confidence and self-belief you'd always want to send him solo in whatever he's trained in, and I'd have thought 13 hours was more than enough to send him to bash a few circuits on his own. Now admittedly I'm only a glider pilot (who can't afford a PPL :() so I don't really know what would be required. Can someone tell me what the requirement to first solo as a powered ab-init would normally be (I'm assuming, perhaps wrongly, that there would be a minimum dual time).

MSJ

[B_Fawlty]

Sadly if HARRIERPILOTNAS is actually anything like that, he does not put his Service or his trade in a good light by his poor use of basic English

I think previous posters more in the know about these sort of things have determined that he/she belongs to that esteemed trade of Walt-ery for which a haphazard approach to spelling, random useage of upper case letters and an excitable fondness for exclamation marks are very much de rigueur. :E

[Parson]

Midsomerjambo,

I don't think the Middle Wallop grading course is aimed at going solo, though I'm sure a few do. If he follows the standard AAC course, he'll have a another 40 hrs fixed wing before he goes rotary.

[Art of flight]

Unless AAC flying grading has changed recently it still aims to grade applicants for suitability (or otherwise) to attend the full Army Pilots Course, ie try to weed out the probable failures and the training risks prior to loading on an expensive flying course.

None of the 13 flying hours are solo as each exercise is designed to allow the student to demonstrate to the instructor an ability to learn and fly each exercise to a satisfactory standard in the limited flying time available. A solo sortie would be difficult to grade so is therefore not part of the grading course.

Generally students solo within 8 hours of starting the full course.

Good luck to them both and hope to see them at Wattisham, now, any sons and daughters of our politicians like to have a go?

[airborne_artist]

I passed RN grading at Roborough thirty years ago last month, and was fortunate to go solo before the FHT. Not all who passed got a solo, as it depended on weather, time etc., but it was common.

RN grading is now done by 727 at VL, and they don't go solo, either, so perhaps a keen bean-counter found a way to save 10 minutes flying time/fuel etc for each student who passed, and got his way. The grading aircraft for FAA and AAC are now provided by PFI, so it seems highly likely to me.

[midsomerjambo]

I just think my first 3 solo circuits were the best flying time I ever had (silver duration notwithstanding - oh for a Vulcan pee tube in a K18 :\).

[Senior Pilot]

Prince Harry has chosen to fly Apache attack helicopters - a decision that will almost certainly pave the way for a rapid return to Afghanistan.

By Thomas Harding, Defence Correspondent
Published: 6:41PM BST 06 May 2010

The prince had originally opted to fly Lynx helicopters, used for surveillance and passenger transport, but Royal sources have said he had a “last minute change of mind” and will fly Apache helicopters instead.
The decision could mean he returns to Helmand Province in the next year, once he passes the tough conversion course onto the military’s most advanced helicopter.

The Army is said to be pleased with his decision as there is still a shortage of pilots to man the 67 strong fleet of Apaches.
But it will raise constitutional questions as the Prince, known as Lt Harry Wales, will almost certainly be involved in close combat.
The Apaches operate in an infantry support role in Helmand in which their 30mm cannon allied with highly accurate targeting systems means that they are regularly used to kill the enemy.
They are also equipped with Hellfire ground attack missiles and rocket pods that can cause devastation to Taliban snipers or vehicles. However, there have been incidents in which Apaches have accidentally killed civilians or been involved in friendly fire incidents.
Prince Harry, who is regarded as a highly accomplished pilot, will complete a conversion to type course at Middle Wallop, Hants, before he becomes a fully qualified Apache pilot.
“He’s able to do it, he’s keen to do it, he’s skilled enough to do it and he will be allowed to do it,” a Royal source said.
Prince Harry last served in Helmand for 10 weeks in 2008 as a forward air controller carrying out the highly skilled job of dropping bombs on the enemy.
However, a return to the front line is likely to lead to complications after he was forced to abandon his last operational tour when an American blogger ignored a media blackout request to reveal that he was in Afghanistan.
Prince Harry will be awarded his provisional wings, known as “brevet”, after he successfully completed the demanding Operational Training Phase.

Daily Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/theroyalfamily/7687341/Prince-Harry-to-fly-Apache-attack-helicopters.html)

[SilsoeSid]

There is still a shortage of pilots to man the 67 strong fleet of Apaches.

I'm sure I read somewhere that there was a shortage of Apaches for the xx strong compliment of pilots!

The same paper;
Three quarters of Army's Apache attack helicopters not serviceable - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/7662754/Three-quarters-of-Armys-Apache-attack-helicopters-not-serviceable.html)

[Thelma Viaduct]

How many UK Apaches have never actually flown?

[Two's in]

How many UK Apaches have never actually flown?

That is a closely guarded secret, known only to the purveyors of air conditioned storage hangars in Shropshire and the bean counters who slash the supply chain budgets to HM Forces.

[scarecrow450]

Unfortunatley there are no AH64's in store at Shaw at the mo. May be a few at Wattishame?

[Sloppy Link]

There are no AH64's at Wattisham either. There are, however, Apache AH1 in abundance....ish.

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Why did Harry get to "choose" which to fly? I thought he would have gone where "service needs" dictate, as per most of the rest of us. Or is this common in the AAC world, that you all get to pick what you fly?

[parabellum]

Could it be anything to do with Harry not wanting to be a co-pilot on the Lynx for the first half of his tour, or wouldn't that have applied to Harry?

Harry probably isn't going to be allowed to make a career in the AAC so the powers that be may want to cram as much as they can into the time available?

We didn't get a choice, half our course finished up on Skeeters!:)

[Gnd]

Everyone gets a choice* and the AAC doesn't have co-pilots. Either a pilot or Commander (a more aggressive version of aircraft Captain). He was an aircraft Captain the first time he went solo, as we all were, so will do his time before getting command regardless of airframe.

If a pilot shows proficiency, willingness, passes the pilots course and is deemed acceptable by the selection process then they will fly the Apache. The Wildcat is far more technically advanced (it’s 40 years newer) and will be equally as complicated - especially when they realise it could be heavy armed!! Would you all question it in the same way?

Well done and good luck, I wouldn't be able to do it I bet.

* The RN, AAC and RAF let you have a 'preference' as well - either way, all 3 decide on requirment and ability, that may be where the lack of choice comes from?

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Yes, the RAF and RN let you have a preference, but the driving factor is always service requirement. In all the streaming and role disposal boards I've been involved with, I can only remember one case where someone's preference was actually taken into account.

I'm just surprised that the story is written as if the Prince was told he had passed, then asked "well, what would you like to fly next?" Anyone else could "choose" Apache and then go where the need is greatest or where their skills fit better.

[parabellum]

the AAC doesn't have co-pilots. Either a pilot or Commander (a more aggressive version of aircraft Captain). He was an aircraft Captain the first time he went solo, as we all were, so will do his time before getting command regardless of airframe.

Thanks for that, wasn't at all sure how it went these days. I came through in 1964/5 (!) in the days of the 'Integrated Flights' when one was posted back to the Air Troop of one's regiment/corps or posted to an AAC flight/Squadron that needed pilots. All rather different now:O

[GreenKnight121]

If a pilot shows proficiency, willingness, passes the pilots course and is deemed acceptable by the selection process then they will fly the Apache. The Wildcat is far more technically advanced (it’s 40 years newer) and will be equally as complicated - especially when they realise it could be heavy armed!! Would you all question it in the same way?

Yes, they would.

There is a certain group that hate the Royals, and are convinced that no Royal is capable of being proficient & skilled enough to tie their shoelaces, the lack of which skill is hidden by a massive government cover-up and campaign of lies about their physical co-ordination.

These persons are convinced that Harry (& William) are NOT skilled & qualified to fly military aircraft, and that they are getting into (and through) their schools etc via a process of disregarding of flight training & safety standards, which slides them through without the ability to safely operate said aircraft... "they just get away with it because they are Royals, after all" is the automatic response of such persons.

No need to exert yourself pointing out the truth of the matter... the "Harry-haters" refuse to accept the validity of anything that shows the brothers to be anything other than over-privileged incompetents getting a free ride through life.

[mlc]

I have no doubt they have proved themselves proficient to operate the aircraft.

I have my doubts that they were subject to the same criteria when initially selected.

[Gnd]

Doubt away - the CFI is not one to be pushed about and is at his career goal so would not yield! He got the job because he can and is wanted, not because he (specifically) wanted.

The AH slot is because the Army needs AH guys and he is good enough. End off!

[whistling turtle]

Didn't William get into the RAF for Pilot training despite the fact that he needs to wear corrective lenses/glasses which would automatically disqualify another potential candidate in the same situation....

[Neptunus Rex]

Not true any more, Mr Turtle.
Corrected eyesight has been accepted in the RAF for many years. There was a student on Jet Provosts in the middle 70s who wore glasses (as did several QFIs.) This student came very high in the final graduation order and went on to fly fast jets. He also had a minor skin problem and had a chit from the MO to grow a beard!

[MOSTAFA]

And isnt Harry a Ging'r?

[Mike Oxbig]

But the MOD is an equal opportunity employer, so hair colour doesn't matter anymore.....................

[whistling turtle]

Hi Neptunus Rex,

Though I don't doubt that there are established RAF pilots who wear glasses, gaining entrance to the service as a pilot when one wears corrective lenses is a different story. Here is a link to the visual requirements necessary for admittance http://www.assoc-optometrists.org/uploaded_files/raf_july_07.pdf

[MOSTAFA]

Is this how you spell "touché".