ATPL SELF-STUDY: How Difficult could this Be?!

[SilveR5]

Hi all..

First, I'm about to enroll to JAR-FCL ATPL complete course soon, all from zero-hour experience in flying... for the ATPL Theory, I think it will be only Bristol.gs with me, but I'm afraid that it might be too difficult to study all the 14 subjects of the ATPL on my own without instructors. I hope I'm wrong about such thoughts!! what do you think?

Second, many schools offer the whole thing PPL/CPL/IR/ME/ATPL Theory ALL IN JUST 13 MONTHS!! OF WHICH THE "ATPL THEORY" PART IS TO BE COMPLETED WITHIN 5 MONTHS ONLY!!!!
is this really possible "in real world" while maintaining the minimum required level of skill and knowledge? :suspect:

I really hope to get your feedback and to learn more about your experience with ATPL studying

Thank you..

Wish me luck...:ok:

[G-FATTY]

SilveR5, Ive just completed my ATPL ground school full time residential, which was over 6months, and found the whole course to be completely mixed. From VFR comms to Gnav!

My view is anyone can pass these exams after looking at the databases available for hours on end, which everyone does leading up to the exams, but if your after a good understanding of the subjects I personally felt in 6months full time that there is so much stuff to learn that I would not be able to do it over 5 months self study!

There were a couple of guys on my course who started self study and moved to residential, they didnt even get through some of the progress tests to be accepted for the exams. When they came to residential, they were among the top end of the group!

I was looking at self study myself but after completing it all now and looking back im glad i didn't. I made great friends and contacts along the way and we kept each other sane - just about! Don't let me get you down though!

Self-study would not be for me but has and will be for many others. - You just asked for peoples views! Hope it helped.

Good luck with it all

[agent.oen]

There's 14 books to cover and most of these books are over 400pgs thick. If the whole theory will be done in 5 months, then you're likely looking at a school who will put most effort on studying the question bank not the actual theory you should find useful for your career as an airline pilot. In other words, I would guess the school is focussing more on getting you through the exams and skipping the information worthwhile knowing for your career.

As for self study... I would recommend this to someone who either has some experience in aviation or else who is quite good in engineering and logical thinking. Some subjects do get tricky!

AO

[Trippple]

I'm currently sitting my ATPL's and while we are blasting through at a huge pace, I would rather it if I could take the time and properly learn more than merely the required knowledge. Unfortunately, this is not an option for me - but I would definitely say if you have the time then use it.

As for the self-study, it may be alright studying the easier subjects like human factors and met, but it would be a challenge trying to learn flight planning and systems by yourself.

[Whirlygig]

many schools offer the whole thing PPL/CPL/IR/ME/ATPL Theory ALL IN JUST 13 MONTHS!! OF WHICH THE "ATPL THEORY" PART IS TO BE COMPLETED WITHIN 5 MONTHS ONLY!!!!
This sounds to me like full-time integrated training whereas SilveR5, it sounds as though you are planning on the modular route (self-study etc). Of course the above is possible of you're in a classroom every day with a teacher breathing down your neck and you're a hard-working student!! Actually, whilst I know of a few who can get through the exams in 5 months, most take longer so the above adverts should be treated with a pinch of salt and a healthy dose of scepticism!

However, how difficult you find self-study depends on a few things. Although you are doing distance learning, can you study full-time at home or do you have a day job. If you have a job as well, then 12-18 months is more realistic. Also, if you already have a good grounding in maths and physics, there are aspects to the studying which you'll find easier. The exams are not difficult but there is a lot to learn.

When it comes to self-study, you have to discipline yourself to do and remind yourself that, if you want to fly for a living, this is what you have to get through. There will be progress tests to complete with your groundschool and you will also have to attend classroom brush-up courses before the exams.

You'll be fine!

Cheers

Whirls

[spinnaker]

SilveR5

Incredibly difficult. How does anyone know that you have misunderstood a particular subject area? (until you fail an exam). The progress tests/exercises don't catch everything.

Self study is unreliable, costly in terms of time, frustrating and at times, terribly lonely.

There is no substitute for 'Chalk and Talk' in the classroom.

[SilveR5]

Whirlygig...YOU HAVE NAILED IT! :ok:

and yes...i meant to ask about both the modular and the integrated...may be it shows in my words that i'm so excited about the matter ... and I think there are many people like me who have carried the years of passion on their backs...only now I believe I can AFFORD the price of my dream...and this makes me feel like I wanna hitch the "Bristol thingy" and gush it into the mazes of my skull and grasp my fATPL all in a blink of an eye!!! but here you are and the others who have replied giving the right advice..
I can see now that it's not really about passing the exams but it's ,more importantly, about where do i wanna go with this studying...and seemingly it's nothing but a long hard way..

simply i'm willing to do whatever it takes to get there >>>Pilot.In.Command<<<


wish me luck guys..

[SilveR5]

spinnaker..

yeah you are right...i think i will go for the full-time integrated ATPL at Stapleford Flight Center, UK...
What do you think of it guys?

well I find SFC very appealing to me coz it's really affordable compared to others...

any opinions?

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

Silver,

I did modular with BGS for the ATPLs, self study, took me about 13 months. Full time job at the time. Just a case of disciplining yourself to study x hrs a night for a while , obviously the social life goes pretty much, but passed all with a good average first time so its certainly doable. If modular suits your lifestyle, then I would say go for it, BGS are very good with support, and the two, two week refreshers are quite intense but get you up to speed for the exams (provided you've done the groundwork of course).

It all looks quite daunting when you start out, however it's a case of "how do you eat an elephant"....small pieces at a time. It's all doable with a bit of discipline and determination.

Good luck....and enjoy :bored:

[Reluctant737]

Hi,

Just to put it into perspective, I completed my ATPL theory through BristolGS and managed to complete it in a little over 3 months - I found myself taking just over a week to get through each subject. However, this was based working solidly for ten hours a day, every day as I was in a position to be able to do that. It all depends on your circumstances, how well you learn, and how strong minded you are! To give you an idea, the only thing that got me through each week was looking ahead to Friday night when I would spend two hours or so at the pub with my friends, but that was it!

None of the subjects contain anything I would define as particularly hard, but it is the sheer quantity of inforation you have to digest, and I cannot stress that fact enough. Mind you, having completed it in such a short space of time, I feel even now, 18 months on, that it's all still up there, so I must have been doing something right! When you take your first step through the cockpit door with the airlines, you'll soon find that over 90% of the information you accumulated during groundschool has no practical use in the cockpit. I feel as though I only really started learning once I was in the RHS, and it's incredible at this point to look back at all the hard work and still realise that I know relatively nothing in the grand scheme of things!

Whatever you choose, I wish you the best of luck :ok:

A.

[Tex®]

SilveR5,
good topic. I actually was looking for some infos on how better understand some subjects of my current ATPL course (integrated, residential).
Let me say one thing first : the whole JAR- ATPL course is really full of useless and pure theoretical informations, in the sense that as someone stated before me, you will be able to use practically only a 15/20 percent of what you must know to pass the exams.
I'm residential, integrated and still have many difficulties to understand some things. The big part of the job I guess is to find the right studying method. Apart from that, I must say that I'm not really keen to all that scientific subjects full of formulas. So a self study path would not suit my needs. If you're prone to some subjects you can go "solo", I know many people who did that (most of them engineeers) with good results. Jeppesen books are good enough to give you the exact informations you will be asked in the examinations. Of course you must memorize them all...and this is tough, believe me. Because as someone already said the amount of informations you must memorize is really really tremendous... :ugh:
Now I go back to the question database... :8

[Dane-Ger]

It's really not as bad as it all seems. I managed to pass all 14 first time whilst holding down a full time job and being a father of three. It took me 8 months distance learning with CATS.

There are many basic themes that link the subjects and if you prioritise your workload by concentrating on understanding the basic theories behind subjects like met, Gnav and POF, whilst using more time on question banks for subjects like air law and ops it will help minimise the workload.

I know it's easy to say when I am at the other side and finished, but don't be scared of the ATPL's, it is nowhere near the level of a university degree but it is intensive whilst you are undertaking them. I ended up quite enjoying it and am rather sad that I'm finished. (bet that sounds ridiculous!)

good luck

D-G

Edit - I forgot to say that whilst distance learning, you are not totally on your own, the brush up week is also a great help.

[Mikehotel152]

SilveR5,

The replies you've already received contain some good pointers. To summarise:

1. SFC does not do integrated training, but you can do the modular course at SFC on a full-time basis. As a rough guide, give yourself 20 months from your first day of the PPL to passing your IR. It is a good course, with great instructors, and it's less expensive than the Integrated courses.

2. Included in the timescale I mention in point 1 is the ATPL groundschool through Bristol GS. It took me 8 months from the day I started studying to the day of my last exams, and I didn't work hard... That includes 4 weeks of brush up courses where you need to stay in Cheddar and 2 exam weeks at Gatwick. If you give yourself 9 months, you will have time at weekends to complete your hour-building. Put it this way, I took 8 months but that included 5 weeks on holiday and many crisp winter flying days.

3. Tex is right. Lots of the stuff you learn on the ATPL is for exam purposes only. The courses are designed to get you through the exams, so people can tell you what they like about the merits of sitting in a classroom with a teacher breathing down your neck or the virtues of studying hard in a library on your own, but at the end of the day the only thing that matters is passing the exams. That's all you, the FTO/Groundschool or the employer cares about.

4. Following on from point 3, get the Question Bank and study it. It will ensure that you pass the exams. If you're as keen on aviation as you say you are, then you will thoroughly enjoy the subject matter and find it quite easy to motivate yourself to get through the immense amount of information they throw at you in the ATPL. I disagree with Dane-Ger, the ATPL was more intense than my Degree or any of my postgraduate diplomas, but it was easier because I enjoyed it! :)

5. The modular route is probable better overall in the current climate because it takes about 9 months longer and, let's face it, there are no jobs out there at the moment, and the modular route is far more fun because you get to do much more flying. The hour-building is an opportunity to spend 100 hours flying around, experiencing the joy of General Aviation, making friends and contacts, and remembering why you wanted to be a pilot. Integrated pilots don't get to do that. From what I've heard - and someone may well correct me - they come out with less than 200 hours TT, of which none is flying for fun. Compare that with Modular students who will have around 250 hours including a much more varied flying experience.

6. Good luck. :ok:

[SilveR5]

I'm really thankful guys...

I believe I know where I'm heading now! ;)

thanks again:D

[BigGrecian]

I completed from start to finish with JAA FI in just under a year.

All depends on how disciplined you are and what your natural flying ability is like.

Some of my training was in the US - very usefull especially for the hour building.

[glush]

It's horses for courses as always....

I started my ATPL distance learning/self study in December 2005 at the grand old age of 45 and finished in October 2006. I had no choice but to go distance learning because my full time job was paying all the bills!

The course was split into 3 parts (which I liked because it meant my old brain didn't have to remember so many subjects during each sequence of exams) and we attended a 1 week revision/groundschool session at the school prior to each phase of exams. As mentioned I had a day job to work all the studying around for the first 6 months, but was then able to apply myself to the books more fully after my job was made redundant in June 2006.

I found the 1 week class based revision sessions a bit frustrating to be honest because of the number of people who turned up (also self studiers) who hadn't done enough studying - and expected to get all the answers to every difficulty they faced in every subject 1 week before they sat the exams! :ugh: A trifle bizarre.

I passed all the exams first time, and achieved an average score of 96% across the 14 subjects - not bad for an old git. I'm no rocket scientist either - no uni, no degree, and not many qualifications from school. Oh, and maths is my weakest area! (I hope this is an incentive to those who hate maths and physics!)

Moral of the story? It's surprising what you can achieve if you're extremely motivated to be a professional pilot and absolutely determined to beat those b*stards who set the darned questions!!

Cheers
glush

[INNflight]

The hour-building is an opportunity to spend 100 hours flying around, experiencing the joy of General Aviation, making friends and contacts, and remembering why you wanted to be a pilot.

You're SO RIGHT!

Take the ATPLs slowly, and get some flying done in between.

There's no use of passing your exams within 8 months if you didn't fly even 10hrs during that time.

Keep yourself in the cockpit once a week for an hr or two. Works wonders.

I just flew my trusty old Cessna 150 into Wichita Mid Continent International 3hrs ago.... shooting down the glideslope at 85kts with the runway all lit-up and shiney made me remember where I wanna go.....and they had a CRJ put on hold-short for me too :ok:

Enjoy studies and flying, makes it easier, and more rewarding!!