Sometimes I hear people saying:

FOR example:

ALL STATIONS MUDGEE, ABC, IFR DUCHESS one zero miles south west, (altitude or on descent), inbound for VOR Approach, ETA overhead __.




My Question is are we mean't to say All Stations when or Mudgee Traffic at the start of the call and Mudgee Traffic at the end of the call, which is what I had previously been doing in VFR flights, and is the above call structured properly, I think it is.




Is all stations the old way?

Yes. It used to be all stations.

yes its traffic these days, and its a good habit off finishing you call with mudgee traffic, or wereever you might be.

In NZ they dont or didnt when i did my training anyway

I think it is a good thing to repeat again after your transmission to wich traffic you were talking too.

sometimes you mis the initial place someone talks to. and if he/she finish with hooker creek traffic and you happen to decent in to VRD than you no you don't have to worry about him/her.
rather than go, "station calling were did you day you are?"

Start with "Mudgee Traffic". End with "Mudgee".

Substitute place name as appropriate.

sweet as, thought so :ok: ending with the location name sounds smart incase others missed it at the start.

No Body is right. Only say "Traffic" at the start, but say the place name at the start and the end.

XXX Traffic, blah blah blah, XXX:ok:

tks captain, is that in the AIP somewhere? only needing to say the location name at the end?

sure is

AIP ENR1.1 - 21.1.12

The standard broadcast format is;
a. {Location} Traffic
b. {Aircraft type}
c. {Callsign}
d. {Position/intentions}
e. {Location}

21.1.13
If calls are not made clearly and concisely using the standard
phraseology, confusion can arise at aerodromes that are close together
where the CTAF is the same.

And over the page...

SUMMARY OF BROADCASTS − ALL AIRCRAFT AT NON−TOWERED
AERODROMES
Before Taxiing
CTAF Broadcast

Entering the runway (with
intentions)
CTAF Broadcast

Turning downwind
CTAF Broadcast

Turning base
CTAF Broadcast

Turning final (with intentions)
CTAF Broadcast

Clear of the runway
CTAF Broadcast

By 10NM inbound or overflying
CTAF Broadcast

Entering the circuit
CTAF Broadcast

Straight in approach at:
a. 3NM final, and
b. 1NM final (with intentions)
CTAF Broadcast

Instrument approach when,
a. departing FAF or established
on final approach
segment inbound
b. terminating the approach,
commencing the missed
approach
CTAF Broadcast

Great to see a bit of discussion on this topic. Old habits die hard so we can expect the odd stuff up by those that have been around awhile, but still really no excuse. My real beaf and what i get really peeved at is so many students are not getting taught correctly. There is no excuse for this. I blame the problem on many of the instuctors out there, both GA and RAA.......Come on guys and gals, get it right,it's so easy. FB

Make it happen capt, i dont want to be pickey since i am not famous for making the most radio calls, but in your list would there be room for, after you enter the runway, a line up call and a departure call??

I am not sure wether that is a law or not, but i always make a line up call, and more often than not a departure call, but that depens to what hight i climb.
cheers:ok:

fullboost - I agree entirely! Instructors (especially those that have been around for a while) should take a lot more responsibility for ensuring that they are teaching the correct procedures.

I think many pilots also fail to transmit their intentions as required, especially when entering the runway - it would often be helpful to know in which direction you are going to go tootling off once airborne.

There is no requirement to make a rolling call, a departure call, or a backtracking call. Thus, these are not radio calls that I would tend to make, unless they are going to be useful to someone. For example: a rolling call when some time has passed since entering the runway for any reason.

Old habits die hard so we can expect the odd stuff up by those that have been around awhile

And for those of us who have been around a while longer it will be a return to how it was when we learnt. None of that newfangled "All stations" stuff. :hmm:

I like hearing departure calls as it updates my mental picture of where people are, I realise they're not standard though. I also give a rolling call at some aerodromes where I can't see the other end of the runway (have seen a DC3 and a Herc, I think, taking off towards each other, not a pretty sight.)

It is not "Traffic Mudgee" for the radio cripples out there either.:}

I also give a rolling call at some aerodromes where I can't see the other end of the runway...

Bathurst is a good example, I think.

GADUDE

Those weren't "my" calls, they are the AIP list of required calls.
Personally, I usually give a rolling or a lining up with x seconds delay call if there is a short delay before moving.
I'm sure no-one is going to jump down your throat if you are unable to make one of these calls due to radio being occupied, but I do suggest accuracy, eg if you have completed the turn onto D/W, base, final, call them as ON D/W, base, final so people know where to look for you.
Sure there will be many cases for and against to come.....

Turning downwind
CTAF Broadcast

Turning base
CTAF Broadcast

Turning final (with intentions)
CTAF Broadcast


good luck getting all thses calls in with 4 aircraft in the circuit, and at least 2 or 3 inbound or outbound at any one time.

Ultra

good luck getting all thses calls in with 4 aircraft in the circuit, and at least 2 or 3 inbound or outbound at any one time.

So what....don't even bother??:ugh:
Like I said if the radio's busy, no-one's going to bite you for omitting a call.
You don't get to pick and choose the rules.
Moorabbin is a good example of being aware of where other aicraft are around you.

Come try flying at Caloundra one day. Caboolture and Redcliffe all on the same CTAF. Not really much drama. If radio's busy for one of the turns, you've still got two other chances and I can guarantee you have a better awareness of where the other aircraft are in your circuit as a result.

Before someone chimes in with "but what if congestion.... but what about overtransmitting???".......
Being a hell of a lot closer to you, and aircraft in your circuit will come across stronger and more audible than an aircraft at the other end of the CTAF area

Is all stations the old way?
Yes. It used to be all stations.
Not quite.

"All stations" is still used by ATC and pilots.

It has been replaced by "{location} Traffic" where the information being broadcast, is location specific. Eg in and around non-towered aerodromes.

AIP GEN 3.4 p34 (http://www.airservices.gov.au/publications/current/aip/gen/3_4_26-102.pdf)
5.7 FREQUENCY MANAGEMENT

2.
when a pilot/ATC broadcasts general information.............................l.* ALL STATIONS (appropriate information)

when a pilot broadcasts location specific general information.............m.* (location) TRAFFIC (appropriate information) (location)

:ok:




An R/T set installed in an aeroplane is a Station. Take a look at the ACMA issued radio licenses in your aircraft flight manual. You want everyone else on an ATS frequency to know about something -- you call "All Stations."

Unless you are inbound to/operating at a Non Towered aerodrome.

Then it is "{location} Traffic."




Interesting thing........ say you come bombing out of Class A left FL340 passing FL200 and about to enter Class E/G so you say "{location} traffic"

..... The guy overflying AYE at FL 180 thinks you are under him because {location} Traffic is a 'CTAF Thing.' :eek:

Maybe thats why we hear some guys first call on to Area Low frequency as "Melbourne Centre and All Stations, Unity123, Fokker 100 is 82 dme west of XYZ passing FL200 on descent XYZ...."+

:ok:

Here's an off the cuff (possibly ill considered) question - let's say you're down near barwon heads, where there's 3 ctaf's (barwon heads, geelong, and one that escapes me temporarily) all in close proximity... what do you actually say?

"barwon heads traffic, geelong traffic and blah traffic...." would seem correct
"traffic barwon, geelong, blah..". would seem less of a toungue twister
"all stations barwon, geelong, blah" was what actually rolled off my tounge last time I went by.

Thoughts?

Mark, I am unfamiliar with the given area, but are all those CTAF's on the same frequentie? like 126.7??
in that case maybe you could say, "traffice on 126.7 xyz is 20nm to/from geelong, 5500 tracking whatever etc"??

Mark1234,

I'm not sure if it is the correct phraseology, but when operating in the GLG, TQY, BRS CTAF it is common to just address the CTAF as the airfield that you are operating out of or passing closest to. E.g Geelong Traffic if inbound, operating at or overflying closest to Geelong.

Everyone using the CTAF should know that GLG, TQY and BRS use the one CTAF and therefore should be able to recognise that someone calling GLG is in the vicinity of the other two airfield's. One exception is, say ABC has just made an inbound call addressing Barwon Heads traffic and you are overflying Geelong then you might prefix your broadcast with "Geelong traffic and ABC"

This is how i do it and i stand to be corrected. Of course there are people that do the whole "All stations Barwon Heads, Geelong, Torquay CTAF blah blah blah all stations Barwon Heads, Geelong, Torquay. This seems to clog up the airwaves significantly. I am going to shut up now for fear of actually being shot down next time i fly near Barwon Heads!

povopilot

"All stations xxx" calls are made on "area" frequency.

"xxx Traffic" calls are made on CTAF frequency.