'Bloodhound'

[TheInquisitor]

I see Dead Dog is up to his old tricks again, this time apparently by strapping himself to a missile....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7685049.stm (Supersonic Car Targets 1000mph)

Appropriately named, for something so 'barking'!

[Jetex Jim]

Your link didn't work, how about this one

BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | Supersonic car targets 1,000mph (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7685049.stm)

[Zoom]

There are many activities that I would like to have a go at on this planet but this isn't one of them. I just have this feeling that we don't yet know enough about supersonic travel at zero feet in a 50 foot pencil. Good luck to all involved, especially that brave soul Andy Green.

[lasernigel]

There I was thinking didn't that used to be our best AA missile at one time?
The Army called it Thunderbird the RAF Bloodhound if my memory serves me correctly.
Had a REME friend attached to 50 missile regt,he said the convoy used to stretch for miles when they went on exercise.:ok:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/lasernigel/300px-Bloodhound_SAM_at_the_RAF_Mus.jpg

Not too much difference besides the wheels.:ok:

[Al R]

From the shots, it doesn't look very practical. Will it have one of those hooks for your curry? Thats by the by. Its an utterly pointless endeavour, harmful to the limited reserves of fossil fuels we have left, foolish, wasteful, self centred and probably goes against every conceivable piece of Health & Safety legislation you could think of.

More please. :D

[Gnomex]

I too immediately thought of the link between 'Bloodhound' the car and 'Bloodhound' the missile. After all, the car does have a rocket on its back, with what look like rocket stabiliser fins at the rear.

If it isn't named after the missle, what other reason did they have for calling it 'Bloodhound'?

[Flap62]

What I want to know is - why hasn't Richard Noble been knighted?

[soddim]

Before we scoff and write this off - how many people thought Andy would indeed end up as 'Dead Dog' on the last record breaking attempt?

I wish him and Richard Noble the best of luck and hope they succeed.

Our country used to be called 'Great' Britain because people were prepared to let it all hang out in their striving to achieve.

[LowObservable]

Forget the dead dog - can they make the guard dog stand up?

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/models/boxtops/airfixm7.jpg

[Al R]

They could do, but if the dog is otherwise occupied, who would there be to read the 1250s for the copper?

[Windy Militant]

Did they call it Bloodhound because Ford have copyright on Thunderbird!
Could have been worse I supose, they could have called it Blowpipe or Petrel or Shrike or Screamer. :}
Best of British to them. :ok:

Edited to add they should have called it Red, White and Blue Streak!

[Knight Paladin]

As I recall the chap who was chief aerodynamicist on the Bloodhound missile went on to perform the same job for Thrust SSC, so maybe the new car is named is his honour? Just a thought, no evidence to back it up!

[Alber Ratman]

As I recall the chap who was chief aerodynamicist on the Bloodhound missile went on to perform the same job for Thrust SSC, so maybe the new car is named is his honour? Just a thought, no evidence to back it up!

Ron Ayres being the man and Bristol being the home of the missile and of this project. Your guess is correct.

There will be a few RAF personnel involved in this project, I would wager (if it survives the recession), not just Wg Cdr Green.

Good luck to them all.

As for the comment about driving at transonic to supersonic speed at zero feet, Andy Green, has as you may or may not be aware, only driven a car at that speed 4 times offically and a couple more times untimed. He is slighty more qualified than anybody else!

[Data-Lynx]

The Inquirer.net (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/10/23/british-nutters-drive-mph) article may have an unfortunate title but the picture is more lively:

http://images.vnu.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/10/23/british-nutters-drive-mph/bloodhound.jpg

I have not forgotten the in-car video of Andy fighting the controls in the final few seconds of run two so I'll take my hat off to him.

[JFZ90]

Where is the EJ200 coming from? MoD loan, old test engine, ??

[The Helpful Stacker]

Engines used in the pre-production trials.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

lasernigel. The English Electric Thunderbird was a different, err, bird to the Bristol Bloodhound. For one thing, it was significantly smaller and didn't use ram jets.

http://aviationancestry.com/Weapons/Missiles/Missiles-Thunderbird-1960-1.jpg

[lasernigel]

Golf Bravo Zulu, thanks for that info,didn't know two different manufacturers.
Tho saying that did Airfix get their facts wrong as that Bloodhound on the packet looks more like Thunderbird than Bloodhound.:confused::confused:

Remember there were three radars used with it. One for horizon,one for azimuth and one for putting a tracking beam upto the aircraft. Used lots of uprated Meadows 27KVA which were 30KVA.Great when the air start worked but a bugger to hand crank. Synchronising them was also an art.:ok:
Think test firings were done at Pendle sands and Benbecula ranges.

[4fitter]

Hang on. Andy is talking about ground related duties - driving - so I'm going to tell on him for wearing his flying suit !!!!!

Seriously - good luck.

[scarecrow450]

Should'nt he be in blues ?? tut-tut

All the best, Richard Noble is more deserving of a knighthood than others
recently !!

:ok::ok::ok:

[arandcee]

Richard hasn't got a knighthood cos he's already a Noble.

I'll get me coat . . .

[Jumping_Jack]

Hope his drive goes better than with his hire car on the way from Eskan to Al Kharj......oops :O

[LOTA]

Went to a splendid lunch at a famous gentleman's club in Pall Mall to celebrate Wg Cdr Green's record-breaking drive in a diesel powered car.

Gin and Tonic and bottles of Becks at the reception before the car arrived, outside for a quick look over the vehicle, back to the lunch, red and white, and as it was sponsored by a whisky company, bottles of their very special vintage potion! Felt no pain whatsoever on the train home....

Can I please have an invitation to the lunch to celebrate the next record?
Thank you....

[MAINJAFAD]

Golf Bravo Zulu, thanks for that info,didn't know two different manufacturers.
Tho saying that did Airfix get their facts wrong as that Bloodhound on the packet looks more like Thunderbird than Bloodhound.
Remember there were three radars used with it. One for horizon,one for azimuth and one for putting a tracking beam upto the aircraft. Used lots of uprated Meadows 27KVA which were 30KVA.Great when the air start worked but a bugger to hand crank. Synchronising them was also an art.
Think test firings were done at Pendle sands and Benbecula ranges.

LASERNIGEL

Correct in most repects. Army called the Radars AD No 11 Mk 1 (Marconi S303 Tactical Control Radar, used by the RAF as the Radar Type 88), The AD No 12 Mk 1 (Marconi S404 height finder radar used by the RAF as the Radar Type 89) and the AD No 10 Mk 1 (Ferranti Firelite Target Illumination radar, known as the Radar Type 86 with the RAF's Bloodhound Mk 2).

Don't know about Benbecula or Pendle Sands being used for test firings of Thunderbird. As far as I known they were fired from the T.E.R.A. (Trials Establishment Royal Artillery) / T.E.G.W.R.A. (Trials Establishment Guided Weapons Royal Artillery) at Ty-Croes on the south western coast of Anglesey (about five miles from RAF Valley).

As for the Airfix Kit box lid, I think its from an overseas release of the kit, not a UK issued one which had Roy Cross artwork, which though quite good, was nothing like the layout of a real Bloodhound Mk 1 fire unit (as they were known at the time). Pose of the figures (inculding the brain on a chain) where based on photos taken at the first press day at RAF North Coates in 1958. (British Pathe website has the newsreal of it, that can be down loaded).

Thunderbird (Developed by Engilsh Electric in Luton) and Bloodhound (Bristols) were designed for the same operational requirement and were originally both Army weapons, until the RAF got overall control of UK Air Defence in the mid 1950's. RAF picked Bloodhound as it had longer range than the Thunderbird, though the RAF were really after a much longer ranged weapon that became the 'Blue Envoy' weapon project until Sandys canned it in 57. Bloodhound Mk 2 and Mk 3 (nuke version canned in 1960) then came along and Ron Ayres was involed in the almost total redesign of the actual missile which had almost 4 times the range of the Mk 1, as well as a lot of extra performance in speed and envelope. (the real fun started however when BAC was formed, as the two GW divisions were then at each others throats, but that's another story).

Back on Topic. Bloodhound SSC has a web site up and running and a supporters (1K) club. I'm joining and will be throwing more than a few pennies in (as I did for both Thrust 2 in 83 and Thrust SSC in the mid 90's).

[dh108]

Great to see the spirit of Donald & Malcolm Campbell, Henry Seagrave and John Cobb is alive and well. Sounds truly daunting to me, but the best of British luck to them.

As an aside, I used to work at the Ferranti plant in Wythenshawe, Manchester where I believe some of the Bloodhound radar/electronics work was done. I worked on Ferranti Argus computer control systems for nuclear power stations - the Argus, I believe, had its origins in the Bloodhound programme.

[MAINJAFAD]

Indeed the Argus 200 series computer was used in the Bloodhound 2 Launch Control Post to do a number of functions involved in the operation of the system. It was replaced with an Argus 700 in the late 1980's, just in time for the system to be canned.

Also Wythenshawe was where a large amount of the Missile and LCP electronics were developed and built for both the Mk 1 and Mk 2. As for the other stuff, Radar Proximity Fuze, EMI at Haynes, Airframe development at Filton, Ramjets at Patchway, most of the actual Bristol/BAC manufacturing at Cardiff. Mk 1 T83 Radar at Rugby (BTH(AEI)), Mk 2 T86 Radar at Endinbugh (Ferranti) and bigger T87 again at Rugby (again BTH(AEI)), plus Mk1 T82 Tactical Control Radar in Manchester (Metrovick(AEI)).

I took a Dead Dog to Filton once, 25 Sqn had dropped it while loading it on to a 15 tonner (landed on the ground inverted).

[jwcook]

Golf Bravo Zulu - great picture of the Thunderbird...isnt that Woolwich barracks in the background???
Cheers

[sumps]

I took a Dead Dog to Filton once, 25 Sqn had dropped it while loading it on to a 15 tonner (landed on the ground inverted).

That will be the first time an AF has been done on a Bloodhoud then!!! :eek::}

[MAINJAFAD]

Way off Topic

The old dog was AF'ed when removed from the Launcher for Servicing, though the BF/AF's only came in with the aircraft paperwork in the late 1980's. 720R/S/T's (Ground) paperwork used before that.

[gearontheglide]

Just caught an update on Dead Dogs latest venture on the 6 O'Clock news. Looks like he has been demoted!!

BBC iPlayer - BBC News at Six: 23/11/2009 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00p2zmq/BBC_News_at_Six_23_11_2009/)

scroll to 22 mins and 23 seconds!

Good old BBC :ugh:

[BEagle]

I was a 'Gold' sponsor (G323) for Thrust SSC as the supersonic land speed record was something we simply had to win for the UK. Several of us also donated a fair amount of cash so that there was enough fuel for the final runs....

But somehow a mere number, 1000 mph, impressive though it is doesn't really have the same impact. Not to decry Noble's effort and Dead Dog's bravery, but this isn't really as significant as the first supersonic LSR.

Sadly, the ignorant genpub were pretty indifferent about Thrust SSC. I doubt whether they'll be any more supportive for Bloodhound.

One of the problems encountered by Thrust SSC was the massive drag rise as it went supersonic. Despite the available thrust, it never did make its target design speed of 850 mph. My theory is that the bow shock pulverised the surface to such an extent that, that instead of being firm, it became friable and the difference was akin to the difference between running on a cinder track and running across a ploughed field (or, more accurately, a seed bed).

Good luck to all involved though!

[Beancountercymru]

JW Cook

It is indeed Woolwich, home of the Royal Artillery (or it was when I was brought up in SE London) , taken possibly from Ha Ha Road or Circular Way

[soddim]

How much easier it is to pontificate on Prune than to push the limits.

Good luck to you Andy.

Hope you put the critics back in their discomfort zone.

[AvroLincoln]

At Aberporth we used to remove the weather covers from the ramjets before firing in the general direction of Ireland, unlike the Airfix version! The best part was watching the high speed camera film afterwards, as the real thing was out of sight before you realised it had taken off!

[Papa Sierra]

Lasernigel,

When I was on 25 Sqn at North Coates they used to take the missiles to Aberporth for test firing, when the Sqn moved to Germany the missiles were taken by Herc to Benbecula.

[Gainesy]

Why the Dead Dog nickname, what's the story? Anything to do with 6 foot 7?

[BEagle]

Nothing to do with six-seventeen; I've heard 2 versions:

1. Due to a spoof played on him as a JP. Something about being told to look after the boss's dog which was then kidnapped by his chums and he was told that it had died - so he was going to have to explain that to the boss.

2. A less charitable version was something to do with the sense of humour of a dead dog.

During SSC's time, I understand that the 'Dead' part was dropped as it rather tempted fate.

Anyway, good luck with poling 'Bloodhound'!

[Gainesy]

Thanks BEags, thought it might be a robust version of Dead Bug.

[BEagle]

'Dead Bugs' is the Urrrmurrikan version - we always called it 'Dead Ants'.....

(Have visions of PPRuNers all flat on their backs after reading that...;))

I thought the 'Bloodhound' news item was very well put together yesterday.

[Noah Zark.]

The thing I find incredible, apart from this new venture is that it is 12 years since the supersonic record!
I remember when I was a yoof, the old codgers used to say that time flew as you got older, and I used to think "What the f:mad: are they on about?"
But it does. :(

[Wholigan]

Damn you BEags - I just spilled my coffee throwing myself on my back on the office floor!!! ;)

[Gainesy]

Wholi, I really can't for the life of me remember the name of the Scottish Officer, can you help?:suspect: