RAF Germany tales of yore

[Jaysi]

Can anyone help?...What was the name of the plain in Germany where the air defenders capped (mast?) and there generally ensued a massive furball at low level during affil? It was a popular spot and planned sorties usually involved several uninvited guests (TOO;)) of various nations.

[earswentpop]

:ok: Peheim. Ich glaube. Friday lunchtimes. Brit F4s, burners off, smoke on, go. Easy meat.

[27mm]

Peheim mast in Area 1 comes to mind, plus Reken mast in Area 2 - happy days - 0800 take-off from Wilders in our 4-ship of F-4s, north at 500ft AGL over JHQ Rheindahlen, tap the burners to wake up the staff wallahs, then on to either Reken or Peheim for "Affil" as it was termed....

[Tigger_Too]

'Twas the Peheim mast in LFA 2, north east of Nordhorn Range. I only ever knew the plain as the North German Plain though.

[Jaysi]

Thanks everyone...got mixed up, so long ago. To add to the nostalgia, MFF on the deck below 92 and 19 Sqn fourships just the other side of the ridge waiting to pounce on any stragglers not soaked up by the Sparrows...must stop now...tears welling up:O

[Tigger_Too]

Look what I found:

http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr224/jythill/Peheim1.jpg

[blimey]

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/6537/f4ym5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

A target rich environment. Happy days.

[rogerk]

A place of fear and dread for your lowly "Hubschrauber" pilot !!

"Phantom at ten o'clock"
"Seen"
"Where are his bloody mates ??

Or if you really wanted to poo your pants -
"Starfighter at nine o'clock"
:D:D:D

[threeputt]

The Southern weather alternate was in Area 7. Usually full of der Luftwaffe F4's, and Starfighters, USAFE F15's and 16's and Canuk F18's.

Happy Day's

3P:eek:

[rogerk]

While on the subject of the most dreaded beast in the skys of Germany - thought this might amuse !!

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb9/durandiere/sure08.jpg

:ok:

[NutLoose]

blimey (http://www.pprune.org/members/164661-blimey)

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: pluto
Posts: 33


http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/6537/f4ym5.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)

A target rich environment. Happy days.


Must be out hunting for Jaguar :p

[ruslan124]

You might want to explain that to those who do not know the story :ok:

[Two's in]

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/124675-f4-phantom.html?perpage=15&pagenumber=3


Jag Splash

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the time we used to do no notice aircraft generation exercises to show Ivan we were ready for him. Hooter blows and you have 12 hours to get 70% of your aircraft fully serviceable and armed. At endex we often flew them off in armed state and did practice intercepts.

As a safety break the circuit breaker for the trigger circuit was pulled (it sits in the back cockpit down where the navigators right calf may be. Of course you're not supposed to make the master arm live or select the weapon or pull the trigger either.

Mighty F4 traps unsuspecting Jag mate on recovery to Bruggen. Winds in behind him and the training takes over: master arm live, sidewinder selected, lovely loud growl in the headset (shows missile acquisition, and trigger pulled.

Woosh.... Fox 2 kill. Circuit breaker must have been wobbly 'cos the navigator maintains to this day it was out.

Court Martial gave them a mild slapping mainly because the regulations were in a shambles and the defence (think it was John Smith later leader of the Labour Party) said how could they be expected to work with such poor documentation.

Bottom line is you teach a man to be a fighter pilot don't be surprised when he acts like one!

The F4 later became the gate guard at Stornoway of all places!

[NutLoose]

They did Air to Air training in Germany and shot down a Jag many moons ago.......... see

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/124675-f4-phantom.html?perpage=15&pagenumber=3

25 May 82 - Phantom shot down Jaguar with AIM9 [Archive] - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums (http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/archive/index.php?t-60022.html)

[Geehovah]

When Men were Men and boys were boys

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/DeeGee/F4HAS7.jpg

And the aircraft in question XV422 - Oscar:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/DeeGee/FORMATION1.jpg

[RETDPI]

On deploying the "rather large" number of vehicles to support Harrier Force .

We were getting ready for our packets to follow the enormous convoy streaming out of Gut. main gate.

From my oldest and probably wisest SNCO:

"Where's the piano"?

[Lurking123]

Oh where does one start? Sticking on the Toom theme, we Gutersloh types used to enjoy the odd F4 det from Wildenrath. Of course, once a year they would send a few aircraft up to take part in Bold Gauntlet, a gathering of numerous NATO AD types and a few transports simulating a Berlin airlift scenario - awesome parties. I also remember the F4 chap landing having lost his back-seater. There had been a rather close call between the F4 and a Canberra with the Pilot's Nag choosing to jump out.

Many, many wonderful memories (and a few tragic ones) from the 80's RAFG.

[L1A2 discharged]

Unfortunately for the 92 sqn armourers the driver and nav forgot that they had done a walk round with white missiles on board and had signed for live loaded jet. The switches were marked as per local instructions.

I was on 14 at that time, the shot down driver was a JP going up with a QWI (gentleman of the first order - not a spoof but a proper good man) for a bit of chasing around the sky.

Waiting to turn round and re-bomb the 2 ship, saw 1 in circuit at the approximate time ...

Sqn tannoy "all grouncrew to the soft", the see off lineys were hoiked into WO & JEngOs office for a grilling before being told that the jet had been shot down by the toom.

Signal from Coningsby Missile site WO to Wildenrath site WO read along the lines of ' not going to APC this year, you won'.

Met the Nav some time later whilst doing orderly dog at Conigsgrad, after some 'where have you been before' talk conversation was somewhat stilted when we realised the link.

Still, enjoyed the beer for the seat working as advertised :)

I seem to recall the same JP splashing AA off scotland after a double engine fire a bit later. What did happen to him over time?

[papajuliet]

Just slightly off topic but still, I think,connectable - in the book "Seek and Strike" [a history of Bruggen] there is reference ,on pages 78 and 79 ,to some larger than life character identified only as Fg. Off. X who was thrown off 14 Sqdn. then 31 Sqdn. then,in turn returned to the UK where he ended up at Finningley. He was highly thought of there - took early retirement, went on the Krypton Factor. Unforgettable apparently.
The book contains much more amusing detail than I've shown.
Is he on these forums? Is he identifiable? What can he possibly be doing now?

[Warmtoast]

north at 500ft AGL over JHQ Rheindahlen, tap the burners to wake up the staff wallahs

When I was driving a desk at JHQ in the early 1970's the only disturbance was from RAF Wildenrath Harriers (noisy enough without the afterburners) and the occasional two-ship GAF F-104's flying low-level north from Nörvenich.

JHQ Rheindahlen in the early 1970's from my album.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/JHQ2.jpg



http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/JHQCropped.jpg

[Jaysi]

Is it my imagination, or was the unfortunate Jaguar pilot one Air Marshal Dalton?

[Gainesy]

I think it was Griggsy?

[RETDPI]

It was indeed S.G. ,Gainesy .

[Jaysi]

Yep, my bad...I met him shortly after...remarkedly mellow.

[27mm]

Hi Jaysi, Air Mshl Dalton did have to resort to a Martin-Baker letdown while at Goose Bay on a II Sqn Jag Det there. During a 4-ship recovery to Goose, he had the misfortune to be rammed in the rear by another formation member who mistakenly moved into his slot - both pilots got out safely. An amusing sideline was that the formation was to mark the celebration of x thousand hours Jag by Baggers. All and sundry were gathered to watch and greet Baggers after landing - however, the champers, glasses and trays were consequently hurriedly put away!

[Jaysi]

Wasn't there a similar incident with a Jag formation run and break when Willie K-P had to leap? He managed it twice in his career... If this wasn't the same formation, the boys were a careless lot.

[27mm]

It wasn't the same formation and it was at the time when the RAFG Jag wing were referred to as the "Bruggen Lawn Darts Club"

[Mandator]

Don't remind me of the Bruggen mid-air - frightening. One of the jets came down in the (conventional) bomb dump and the other in the woods just outside the perimeter fence, close to the SSA. The collision occurred about 6.00 pm, just as I was heading back to the Mess. I hurtled back to ASF to start getting the crash kit out when the WO fire chief asked for techies to help man another fire truck. Half the night shift shot off in the fire truck and the rest of us got the crash kit ready to roll, while half expecting Bruggen to go into orbit judging by the black smoke belching from the bomb dump. I think that was Willie K-P's second ejection.

[L1A2 discharged]

Mandator, we have probably met.

The mid-air is still firmly stuck in my memory. I was on the XX peri track driving a V loader with bomb kit trolley, waiting for 'our' wave to return. Watched the run in and break, saw the immediate aftermath of the collision and the subsequent smoke.

If there had been a large 'x' on the ground inside the bomb dump fence to mark the safest place to put an impact site thats where the inner of the 2 landed.

RIP the man that did not survive.

See: List being compiled - can you he (http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Aircraft_by_Type/Jaguar/Jaguar.htm)

XX Mar 80 to Mar 82, moved to 14, rtuk Nov 82.

[threeputt]

His first Jag was deposited, IIRC, in the Dresdner Bank car park in Elmpt. We had his "shreddies" and a cheque for £10 mil in the 17 (F) crew room!

Lucky chap.

3P:ok:

[Cubanate]

Was one of the OCs Crash Guard for the aircraft that landed outside the Bomb Dump (and other sad losses at Bruggen) and was nearly taken out during a walkabout in the early hours by one of the boys hiding behind a tree with a big stick. Thought I was a Wild Boar!:eek::ugh:

RIP JC

[im from uranus]

Lurking 123.
MMmmm, didn't this happen to a 19(F) F4, which landed back at Wilders, on a Friday morn, early 90's? Pilot AT, Nav ?W.

I was a liney on 19 at the time. I'm abso pos we weren't on det at the time.

Bold Gauntlet was one det I won't forget. (Dead cat syndrome!):yuk::yuk:

IFU

BTW 17 yrs tomorrow (30/10/91) FI.
Mongo & CJ, great memories of great friends. Never forgotten.
:( :(:{:{

[Wasser]

The throng gathered outside the hanger at Goose Bay as Baggers led the 1st flypast. As the formed up for a 2nd flypast our view was obscured by another hanger. The first we knew that something was wrong was when Bagger’s a/c flew past alone. SD’s a/c was then seen veering to the north, with flames coming out the back. SD ejects and the a/c slowly rolls on its back and dives into the ground.

Total silence from the crowd as we tried to absorb what we’d just seen. First words uttered was by a nearby Canadian bowser driver who shouted “Jezz, you guys had better do something, you’ve just lost an a/c”. “Yes we know” someone said quietly.

Things got a bit hectic after that , but it probably took about another 10mins for news to filter through that we’d lost a 2nd a/c flown by BR (our view of the collision having been obscured by the hanger). Thankfully, soon after, news came through that both pilots were safe.

Having worked on both a/c during the turnround, it was with some relief later that day that BR and SD both said their a/c were serviceable prior to the collision. Thoughts like “did I secure the PMD properly or did it fall out onto the stick” etc had been racing through both mine, and fellow Wasser’s, minds.

As I remember, SD suffered a sprained/broken? arm when he landed in trees and spent the rest of the detachment as “duty driver”. BR suffered from hyperthermia and spent most of the detachment in hospital.

It’s with thanks to these two pilots that, despite having worked on both a/c prior to flight, I never had to give evidence at the subsequent BOI.

Despite a big reward from Martin Baker, I don’t think the locals ever found either seat in the bog. Also, I never found out if the MOD’s import licence for “Sepecat Jaguar aircraft x 2” was ever approved by the Canadian government.

[BSweeper]

Apocryphal story no XXX:

Ops room phone rings, " Hi boss - its WKP"

Auth, "Where are you"

WKP, "At the bank"

Auth, "Whoa, you're supposed to be flying"

WKP, "I was until 3 minutes ago - the jet's in the car park. Can someone pick me up"

Probably not true but a good story for the bar

[PARALLEL TRACK]

I seem to remember that CAS Desig was in the wrong ref Goose Bay VRIAB from Arrow! Something like a difference between STC and PTC SOPs. Anyhow thats how the other guy related the incident to me.

[Mandator]

BSweeper: That wasn't WK-P - that was Jerry Whittingham. His jet caught fire on approach to Bruggen and he dumped it in the edge of a wood. He landed in a village close to JHQ. Clutching his parachute, he rang Ops from a bank to say where he was and the DOO told him to 'go away' because a jet had just crashed.

[hval]

Happened 17th July 1980. Was Jaguar GR.1 (XX817) of 17 Squadron. Crashed in woods 7 miles from Bruggen. Pilot ejected and landed in bank car park.

[Mandator]

hval: Correctomundo. I was closely connected with the invest.

[Throb@30wCPDLC]

I m...you are correct...backseater was GY...AT is still on good form...saw him last week...

Happy Days!

[Akrotiri bad boy]

It would have been circa '88 at Gut when a Belgique Mirage used the
"Qwik Drop" facility at the married quarters video rental shop.
IIRC the story concerned a Belgian Mirage that had popped over for the day. Unfortunately he ended up in some sort of ATC holding pattern; seeing his fuel indicators exit gauge left he tried to put into Bielefeld airstrip. The improbably short strip prompted the fellow to turn back to Gut whereupon he flamed out,
the ship hit the deck ever so gently and remained intact, the jockey having banged out and landed in the video shop car park amongst the Volvo 343's and Nissan Bluebirds that were popular at the time. The airframe was quickly dragged back and sat on sticks outside PCSF for some time. Apart from an intake full of Westphalia the only damage immediately visible was a rippling of the spine panels.

Continuing with the Belgian theme, can anyone elaborate on the poor old fella on his tractor that got hit by an East German/Polish MIG?

[Tigger_Too]

July 1989? Polish MiG-23 airborne on a training sortie. Pilot didn't like something and decided on a Martinski Bakerski recovery. MiG decided it preferred life without a pilot and happily motored west for some considerable time.

Now this of course was in the days of proper QRA, so I think the Germans had the first go. Hopsten F4s? Lots of dicussion about ROE etc, but net result was the MiG got away from the Luftwaffe. Wildenrath next? Not sure whether they actually got airborne, but I am sure there is someone out there who was at Wilders at the time.

As I remember, things got a bit panicky after that and I think the Belgians and Dutch got airborne in a hurry and had a go. Finally the Americans joined in, I think with a couple of F-15s from Soesterburg.

Sadly the Flogger crashed on a house near Kortrijk when it ran out of fuel and killed a teenager who was inside.

Never did find out whether anyone actually fired at the MiG to bring it down. I know there was lots of dicussion about the risk of bringing it down in a populated area, but no idea whether anyone was authorized to engage.

[flash8]

Pilotless Soviet Jet Crosses Europe Before Crashing - New York Times (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE0D8133BF936A35754C0A96F948260)

is the story for the above.

[Wasser]

I was always of the opinion that the shooting down of the jag in 82 was in retaliation for us destroying Wildenrath's Officers Mess piano (78/9?), which had mysteriously found its way onto the range one friday afternoon.

Bit of an OTT reaction from a bad loser.:=