CAA Class I medical, Initial Issue?

[Farfrompuken]

Quick interrogative:

Can I get my initial Class I issue at centres other than Gatwick? I've been led to believe there are certain people that can offer it to Military Pilots, however I've just been informed by a doc that I have to go through the CAA at Gatwick. The CAA website backs this up...

Obviously this incurs hassle and cost, both of which I'm keen to avoid!!

Ta!

[Specaircrew]

I had my initial at Brize and get the renewals done there, I suggest you give them a ring.

[Farfrompuken]

TA! Looks like 1 Dec 08 is an important date, then!

All sorted!

[BEagle]

What is the significance of that specific date?

[Tiger_mate]

That is the date after which all initial medicals are to be done at Gatwick. Renewals can be done by the chosen few around the MOD.

[BEagle]

From whence came that policy? CAA Medical, RAF or rumour-in-confidence?
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Internet/zxzxz.jpg

The last information I had was that an RAF MO who has been through the relevant CAA course and has been granted AME status, may continue to conduct Initial Class 1 medicals for RAF pilots and navigators provided that he has full access to all their RAF medical documents. Although it is possible that this may change under EASA part-Medical (in around 2012).

[Tiger_mate]

I got the information from the RAF SMO who did my initial medical in Aug this year. He got it from the CAA. So third hand it may be, but under the circumstance, I would rate it as fairly reliable. Notwithstanding that anything can change.

He also added that it was 'Europe' and not the CAA who is in the driving seat.

[Gnd]

Of course the Campaign Against Aviation are going to change this - they can then screw even more money out of us for a nonexistent service.
PS I got mine at Cranwell and they were very good, and quick.:ugh:

[Farfrompuken]

Cheers Peeps.

For all your info I spoke to the CAA this PM. The very helpful lady on the line did seem to think that as from 1 Dec 08 you will have to go to Gatwick to get your Initial Class I medical. I have heard 1 Jan 09 mentioned, either way there isn't long to get your appointment in.

[BEagle]

I shall speak to CAA Medical AGAIN about this. Whilst they are generally on side (so s*d off and aim your childish invective elsewhere, Gnd), their internal information dissemination is abysmal.

In late Aug 2008, the formal reply to an RAF MO, who is also an AME, was as follows:

You can still do Initial Class 1s providing you have access to their F Med 4 and complete the Military Form giving their current MES, and the results of their CXR EEG (if they have had one) etc.

The introduction of EASA regulations may prohibit this process in the future

EASA part-Medical is a long way off, so, apart from rumours-in-confidence, there is no reason to suspect that those RAFMOs who have also qualified as CAA AMEs (and there aren't that many of them who have) will have their right to conduct Initial Class 1 medicals for pilots revoked in the near future.

[Farfrompuken]

The latest gen I have is:

31 Dec 08 will be the last date for the old-style 1st issue medicals.

Post that, you'll have to go to Gatwick to get them done. The cost I've been quoted (non-verified) is about £900.

To those of you that can, I suggest you get it done pronto.

BEags: I believe the military will hold almost zero sway in the new EASA rules. We're such a minority proportion, we don't count anymore.

P.S. That is not to say SMOs etc won't do subsequent medicals. However the cost of doing them will rise for the AMEs due to extra bureaucracy

[timex]

Couldn't get my initial Class 1 done at a Mil establishment so went to Gatwick, cost me £300 (approx), that was 18 months ago..

Found this..

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_MedSchemeOfCharges2008.pdf

[BEagle]

Thanks for the reminder - I've just e-mailed the CAA and will report back.

[Gnd]

BEgal,

Stick to backing bureaucratic NGOs and not deriding people for their opinion; that’s why this is a free to air site.
I honestly believe that the CAA are a self licking monopoly that put every obstacle possible in the way of people who love aviation - the class one fiasco for supposedly professional pilots (you may not be but the remainder of the forces try their hardest to be) is just another in a long line of money grabbing hurdles.

On the other hand you may honestly believe that our MOs are less capable than CAA MOs to interpret the suitability and requirements of aviators? If you do I suggest you S*d off and get educated.

[Capt Pit Bull]

Gnd,

I'd be the first to admit the CAA has its failings (it took me several years to get out of the habit of giving the belgrano 2 fingers on the way past to my cew report centre), but your comments regarding the medical branch are ill founded.

Tar everyone with the same brush why don't you.

Actually, for issue of a Civilian Class 1, I'd say the CAA are far better qualified to just suitability; they encounter a far greater sample size of the population with a far greater range of marginal medical conditions than the RAF pilot cohort.

Bottom line: its you that needs educating, not Beags.

pb

[BEagle]

OK, Grunt, in that case I won't bother to investigate further, if it keeps you happy in your little ditch.

So, if people end up paying nearly £1000 because someone in the CAA has incorrectly pre-empted an EASA proposal, they'll all have you to thank.

You clearly haven't the faintest idea about the co-operative attitude of the CAA towards military aircrew - they simply do not deserve your vitriolic invective.

[Gnd]

Then I sit educated - thank you.

I still do not really understand how the Specialist in Aviation Medicine (military) could be less capable of assessing the ability to fly than his civilian counterpart. Do the CAA MOs do more courses or training? I can see that parity or uniformity of ECGs could possibly be better from one 'expert' but am I to believe that taking blood samples, blood pressure, BMI and general medical positions is different?

If it is then I am obviously stupid as are 'allegedly' my medically trained colleagues who chose to join the military; maybe I should get back into my uneducated box.

It is also a little confusing why the CAA medical section has suddenly become so exalted and this didn't happen years ago. I guess it will be something to do with world aviation advances that the military haven't bothered to keep up with.

[Gnd]

Begal,

Back off. If you think calling me a grunt will further your cause you are more mentally challenged than I thought; it is offensive and even more childish than I would ever stoop too. You have no idea what my disposition is – this was never aimed at your eminence, so lets keep it that way!!

You campaign to your heart’s content and I wish you luck but until you can prove to me that your small minded and self impressing attitude can make one iota of a difference, I will slag the CAA as much as I [personally] wish too.

[Farfrompuken]

Calm down, calm down!

I believe the CAA are now 1/27th of EASA. The new regs are being imposed by countries who have far fewer pilots, but each hold an equal voting share.

Each country is desperate to make their impact on the new regs so don't blame the CAA!

For what it's worth though, the CAA are not averse to overcharging for services (such as the £250 to process your licence application!!!). This obviously does little to improve their image.

Gnd: comments like:
until you can prove to me that your small minded and self impressing attitude can make one iota of a difference are out of line. :=BEags has had a significant impact on the way our hours contribute towards an ATPL; I believe we have him to thank for the Bridging and 'Freebie' dispensation deals. :D

Now let's all put our teddies back where they belong and try and make constructive posts, to help our colleagues.:ok:

[Capt Pit Bull]

Gnd,

Just a question. Have you actually dealt with the CAA medical department? Do you know the background of the Doctors concerned?

Regards,

pb

[Gnd]

Pit Bull,

Yes, see #8. I have to admit I only did it because I had to and I have not taken the civil licence option. I say this so that it is not seen a hypocritical e.g. having the class 1 and then slagging the CAA.

I have long believed that the very professional and competent military get a rough ride. There are a magnitude of (o.k., personal opinion again) exorbitant prices for minor additions to licences’ and restrictions, too much and also not enough e.g. PPL hours for currency, within the CAA's remit. They make flying so hard.

Safety will always be paramount but the FAA are not as bad and safety is about equal - I have a problem with greed and job protecting, not any individual (inc BEgal). I just wish my working environment was a good as the CAA’s - just a for instance before people think I don't like my 'ditch'.

Respectfully

Gnd

PS Farfrompunken, those comments were purely as a result of BEgals unwarented and franky rude slagging of one arm of our forces - petty I know but done, sorry for lowering your post.

[BEagle]

The person I need to speak to at the CAA is out of the office until 10 Nov, so I will report further then.

Incidentally, the CAA is one of the few NAAs which is required not only to cover its costs but also to make a small working surplus to guard against inflation etc. You can thank the 'privatisation' greed of the Thatcher era for that. Which is why it is so seemingly expensive to process Pilot Licence applications, for example, compared to the government-funded FAA.

[haltonapp]

I may be speaking out of turn, with no knowledge, but I thought that only Flight Engineers and Air Traffic controllers obtain a Class One CAA medical, pilots require a JAA medical, which may mean that the rules have changed! I know that when I book my medical I request a Class One and not a JAA, for those of us of a certain age a Class One has a longer period of validity.

[BEagle]

haltonapp, that is very surprising. As far as I was aware, you can only have a JAA Class 1 or Class 2 these days.....
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Internet/zxzxz.jpg

Official word from the CAA regarding Initial JAA Class 1 medicals is that they may only be conducted at the Aeromedical Centre, Gatwick from the following dates:

Army - Apr 2008
RN - July 2008
RAF - 1 January 2009.

So those RAF pilots who need an Initial Class 1 have until 31 Dec 2008 to have their nuts groped by an RAF MO (if he/she has also been authorised as a civil AME). From then on, it must be at Gatwick.

You have EASA and its petty €urocrats to thank for this policy change - I will be grilling them next week to insist that a similar nonsense doesn't happen to military accreditation for licence issue!

[CAC Runaway]

That seems absolutely bizarre. While I don't disagree with what you are saying I'm sure Army pilot's have had their initials done since then. I'm an Army pilot and am booked in for my initial in Dec. Is it dependent on the doctor then I wonder? Why should there be a difference?

[FFP]

Just to clarify, renewals can still be done by an appropriately qualified RAF MO ?

If your med expires, how long is it before you have to do another Initial or is any subequent medical classed as a renewal (if that makes sense ?)

[BEagle]

Re. Army pilots, I'm only passing on the information from the CAA, CAC Runaway. It might be that your MO/AME hasn't been informed, but if I were you I would ask him to check with the CAA.

Only those MOs who have also done the course with the CAA and have been appointed as AMEs are allowed to conduct JAA medical examinations for military personnel - even Class 2 PPL medicals!

FFP, as far as I'm aware, Class 1 revalidations and renewals for military pilots may still be conducted by those MOs who have also done the course with the CAA and have been appointed as AMEs - the change of policy purely affects Class 1 initial examinations. I don't think that there is ever a need to repeat an 'Initial' - but check with the CAA for chapter and verse on this.

[papercut]

FFP

I'm pretty certain that your JAA Class 1 can have expired by up to 5 yrs before you have to submit to a new initial medical. I think you never have to have a second JAA Class 2 initial.

As a military AME and therefore able to do initial class 1 medicals on pilots and navs, at least until 31 Dec 08, I've been surprised at the small numbers asking for them, so far. Time is running out, I'm the only MAME covering a large geographical area with about 10% of the RAF. If you want one ask now, there are a few hoops to jump through but it'll save you at least £300 at the current rates (and that's without the cost of getting down to LGW).

In the future the CAA want all AMEs to use their AME-online system, the way this is set-up with a different fee structure to the AME for using the system will force Military AMEs to formalise how we charge our pilots for our services. And the way we re-imburse the RAF for using our medical centres for commercial purposes. I for one would like to continue to do JAA class 1 renewals and class 2 initial and renewals, especially class 2's it's been great to help some of our junior guys getting their PPLs.

Roll-up roll-up!

Best wishes guys.

[FFP]

I'm pretty certain that your JAA Class 1 can have expired by up to 5 yrs before you have to submit to a new initial medical. I think you never have to have a second JAA Class 2 initial.

Great news. Class 1 has expired and I'm not able to get to a doctor for a renewal just yet. I have some time at least.....!

Thanks