Good time to start training?

[sunny441]

hello friends:

up until now age used to be the factor - i am almost 28 and have always wanted to be a commercial pilot. I finally decided to go for it - and wanted to start sometime in January and get my PPL thru CPL. i have a bachelors degree in softwre engineering

but looking at the economy and the way the market stands - esp in my home country of india.. am scared to go ahead.

what do u guys think? is this a good time to get started? or just sit by and wait. or just totally forget the idea and be happy with IT?

cheers

[Whirlygig]

Assuming you're thinking of the modular (and it sounds as if you are), then it's not so much when you start but when you finish that matters as far as the economy and job market go!

PPL, hour building and exams all take time and I would suggest you do these at a leisurely pace whilst still working and saving!

Cheers

Whirls

[Aerospace101]

as i have already mentioned tonight;

I think the best advice is to time it that you START training when you can actually see things recovering; ie fATPL getting jobs. Its not like in one day we go from no jobs to flood gates open. It takes around 2yrs from the first trickle of fATPLs into airlines to full on recruitment. In those 2 yrs you could quite happily get the training done.

Starting when things look grim is STUPID. Whats to say they still look grim for when you finish, or for the many months/yrs after you finish...

[AlphaMale]

Nothing stopping you from getting your PPL now but I'd hold off on starting your ATPL Ground School exams until we start seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.

Like you I am in the IT sector and the longer I keep my head down in the office the more I earn. I have an interview coming up soon which will take me into contracting and earning more than a Turbo Prop Captain (if I get the job).

As soon as you start your ATPL GS you have 18 months to complete all 14 exams. After completing your last ATPL exam the clock will be ticking (36 months) for you to complete your CPL and IR giving you a fATPL.

So by enrolling on an ATPL GS course in Jan '09 you WILL have to complete all training by June 2013. Or run the risk of having to pay and sit your ATPL GS exams again and then your IR or CPL ... or both. Keep in mind you need to keep your IR current too, if it's a ME-IR than that will not come cheap.

... Fingers crossed everything will be ok in the aviation world in 2013 but if it's not then there will be a huge number of ex-airline pilots on the dole waiting at the front of the queue, pilots with x000hrs just behind them followed my middle age IT people like you and myself with a couple of hundred hours in the log book.

PPL, leisurely hour building X country and maybe some light reading through some ATPL GS material is about as far as I'd go for the moment.

Good luck.

[AlphaMale]

They always say that "theres no time like the present." A lot of things in life are a gamble and training to be a pilot seems to be one of them but if you dont take them chances you may never get where you want to be. No one knew on september 10th 2001 that the following day the air transport industry was going to change forever, just the same as no one knows what will happen tomorrow! Go for it!

And gambling £50,000 on pilot training is very much like buying a Lotto ticket ... you gotta be in it to win it. :\

... Dare I say it but the advise above is not the route you'd want to take, I wouldn't want to be on the AC when willisstorm4 is at the controls, "Hmmm all airliners are pretty much grounded due to bad weather at LGW - But I think I'll take my chance and get this baby off the ground ... I'm sure when I'm in the air everybody else will follow me" The saying springs to mind about Old pilots and Bold pilots ;)

Weigh up the odds of getting a job after blowing £50k on training, lost earnings whilst training amongst all that hard work studying for ATPL when you could be studying for IT (giving you better earning potential) and make your choice.

[preduk]

A lot of things in life are a gamble and training to be a pilot seems to be one of them but if you dont take them chances you may never get where you want to be.

I've said this a number of times before; there is a huge difference between a gamble and a calculated gamble or risk and calculated risk as I like to put it.

You'll never find an entrepreneur taking a risk without weighing up the chances of success and failure even though they are spending a considerably less amount of money.

Look at what's happening in the market, (news headline this morning that the UK is already in recession) and weigh up your chances of getting that dream job. You may think it's worth the risk and if you do, go for it however if your head is giving you warning signs; maybe it's something you should be listening to.

[RudeNot2]

Alphamale

Just a query on your post above... does the clock start ticking from when you sign on the dotted line with the GS provider or from when you take the first examination - akin to the PPL exams?

RudeNot2

[AlphaMale]

Summary of the requirements for examination:

14 Exam papers - to be passed within 18 months of the first pass.
Maximum of 6 sittings.
No more than 4 attempts at any one subject.Hope that helps, you'll need to do the training with a school and I believe all will have some kind of structure in place to keep within these deadlines.

[Whirlygig]

You'll need to check with the ground school as to whether they have a time limit. What usually happens is that you pay upfront (i.e. £1,500 to £2,000 ish) for the complete course which will include brush-up classroom courses as and when you sit the exams. Some schools (due to course material going out of date) may have a limit of two or three years from originally signing up with them.

Cheers

Whirls

[RudeNot2]

Thanks for the clarification AM, do not have LASORS kicking about the office here!!

[Mickey Kaye]

Having originally got my fATPL in about 1991 I kenw about 15 aerodrome bums - all trying to get hours/work. By 1996 all but but one had landed airline jobs.

Interestingly the only one who still has a real buring desire for flying is the one who rebuked the airline route and works as a flying instructor.

The job market ebbs and flows it will come good again.

In my opionion the only thing that stops you making the grade is ill health and a lack of determination.

[eikido]

Having originally got my fATPL in about 1991 I kenw about 15 aerodrome bums - all trying to get hours/work. By 1996 all but but one had landed airline jobs.


Isn't that normal. Even when its good times?

I'm counting for 1:20-1:50 ratio of getting a job. That is only 1 of 20-50 that will get a job. And that is during good times (~year 2004).:bored:


Eikido

[Celtic Pilot]

if i remeber correctly that 2004 was still part of the recovery form 9/11, so wouldnt be classed as good times!!!!!

[eikido]

Well if it was a good time? Or say 2005-2006?

Eikido

[MerlinV8]

Forget world economic's and remember that everyone needs to get from A to B, the way I look at it is over 200 years ago the steam train was invented and look at what has happened to the world over 200 years, as far as aviation goes we are still in the steam age and things will change dramatically in the years to come, even the great depression of the 20s didn't stop the transportation industry from declining, aviation will go from strenght to strenght so long as people demand more out of life as they will, if you are young imagine the world in fifty years without air travel, it will not happen!! unless we blow the planet up before hand :cool: get in now!

[Celtic Pilot]

MerlinV8

I dont think anyone is trying to say that planes will stop flying alltogether, Its just that the economy is slowing down dramatically!!!! They are expecting that the consumers will not spend nearly haf as much this christmas..

of course the industry will rise again, it always does, but just because it gets better which it will do (how far of no one knows), if people stuggle to heat their homes this winter I reckon the last thing they will be wanting is a flight!!!!! It will eb a few years yet before this picks up!!!! foolish to start training now!!!!!

REMEMBER the aviation industry is cyclical!!!!!

:ok:

[Aerospace101]

cylindrical

LOL

You mean, cyclical? :ok:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Cylindrical eh?


Aer Arran are laying off staff as they are reducing their fleet from 12 to 9 aircraft.

Those pilots will all have at least 1,000hrs multi engine turboprop experience. You don't. Shuffle back.

WWW

[MIKECR]

Cylindrical???

Thats the funniest thing I've seen on pprune yet.

It frightens me that some people think they can give advice on something!

[Celtic Pilot]

www.. (http://www..).

I know it has been a few weeks now but have you forgoten about xl and zoom pilots too???????????????????????????????????

they'll not be the last ones either!!!!!

what can i say its a monday afternoon and its pissin down outside!!!!! :E

[MerlinV8]

Have we got clearance clarance, thats a roger, roger, give us our vector victor Haha who care's about spelling boys and girls, did we get the message!

[Tanstopper]

WWW............ your a Joke
you realy are the ambassador of **** talk.
You do know that? Right!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Aww shucks Tanstopper - thanks. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out and good luck with those exams.

Bye bye.


WWW

[Canada Goose]

WWW............ your a Joke
you realy are the ambassador of **** talk.
You do know that? Right!

Tanspotter. Just curious, why do you think www is a joke ?

BTW - 'your' is spelt 'you're'

CG.

[preduk]

WWW............ your a Joke
you realy are the ambassador of **** talk.
You do know that? Right!

Probably works for either a bank or an integrated FTO lol :ok:

[AlphaMale]

Tanspotter. Just curious, why do you think www is a joke ?

"Banned... Persona Non Grata"

Something tells me he's not going to reply in a hurry :p

[Canada Goose]

Ahh ! Well spotted AlphaMale. I was eagerly awaiting the reply. Not bad going to get banned after only a handful of posts !! Then again, not really surprising is it !!?? :hmm:

CG

[AlphaMale]

After reading his other posts I guess it was going to happen sooner or later :rolleyes:

[Lost man standing]

eikido'm counting for 1:20-1:50 ratio of getting a job. That is only 1 of 20-50 that will get a job. And that is during good times (~year 2004).http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/wbored.gif
Sorry that's simply completely wrong.

Of all the guys who went commercial I kept in touch with from starting training to getting my first public-transport job (I was an instructor in the meantime for several years in the last downturn, so knew a lot) none is now out of work. The very few who were not flying when I last heard of them did not surprise me. They did not have the right personal qualities to be in this business, I could have predicted which would struggle to find work when I first met them.

When my company needed more pilots and wanted those with a personal recommendation I could only find two willing to apply and both were offered jobs here. One decided he didn't want to move, so kept instructing and is now I think doing some public transport flying in the area where he wanted to stay. The other was already flying commercially, and stayed in his job when the company picked up another contract so he was flying more. He has now moved to a bigger company.

We took on a few pilots who claimed they'd stay for a while, and found we could not keep them (even with a bond) as they were in such demand, until we managed to get some by personal recommendation who wanted to work for longer in our sector. They could have taken jobs elsewhere by now, but they like the company, the work and the area we're based in.

The situation has changed now. I would not recommend anyone to start full-time for at least a year. However the good times will come back, they always do! If you're thinking of progressing slowly alongside a full-time job, then this is not a bad time to start.

[student88]

Could the recession see the likes of OAA, CTC and FTE becoming more competitive in their prices? What do you think the impact will be on the smaller FTO's around like Stapleford? It seems that there are still some guys out there who are letting impatience get the better of them, perhaps making them see through rose tinted glasses when it comes to enroling upon a course!

S88:ok:

[Aerospace101]

To be honest, they could double their prices and there'd still be suckers willing to pay up!! :ugh:

[chickentikkamasala]

To be honest, they could double their prices and there'd still be suckers willing to pay up!!


Yes but only a few.

[antonov225]

Hi, I have a place on the wings scheme and will start around march. I was lucky enough to secure the hsbc unsecured loan and would not face repayments until march 2011. Now, in this current climate would you advise me to give up this place and loan, or go ahead and hopefully emerge into an industry on the up?

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Botani]

I'll borrow this thread for a quick question hehe.

I'm 19 years of age and I'm eager to get an education so that I can get my life on the right track. I've strongly considered becoming a professional pilot for some time now and then the economy crisis hit.
So my quick question to the guys that work in the industry today is: What do you recommend me to do, start my pilot education or get another education and start the pilot training when I'm like 28-29?

The reason I'm asking is because life is short and I don't want to regret anything, I mean that's ten years of my life I could enjoy flying, but I won't be flying if there aren't any jobs availible and I have to live with my parents or perhaps on the street when I'm 25+. :P

Thanx in advance by the way, really appreciate any replies!

[MMeddie]

despite somewhat limited experience, ive been reading quite a bit on the forums and, added to what i do know and have experienced, i wud advise u strengthen ur fallback position with some sort of formal education/degree...it doesnt seem absolutely necessary for hiring with the airlines but it does supplement what you may have in terms of hours when the time comes for hiring, and the discipline involved in getting to that higher state of education may also help you further down when you're ready to apply yourself to pilot training...

my major reason for recommending you go that route is the current financial climate where there is a great deal of uncertainty, particularly in the industry....and it seems very costly to maintain liscence "currency" on your own post-aviation studies while you try to get hired and paid for your passion..

ure pretty young so i'd say that time is definitely on ur side, and as difficult as deferment proabably will be (trust me i'm experiencing that difficulty myself at this point), from one rookie to another, i think it's something you should consider...

hope this makes sense...

[eikido]

Hey Lost Man Standing.

Thanks for the replay.

I've been thinking a lot about what you wrote.
So i started investigating.

Finding a job might be easier where you live, but where i am, it seems difficult.

I spoke to a friend who looked for a job after an integrated course.
He sent out 100 CV's before he was offered a job. And that was last year when it was still good.:bored:

He did not limit himself to an area since he's young with no relationship and can move any time.

Eikido

[152Jockey]

We have 32 Indian Cpl students training at my flight school (Mainland Air) in Dunedin, New Zealand. They all pay 45k (NZ$), roughly £15k, for their Cpl before going back to India to do their MEIR. I believe there is a link with Kingfisher airlines. Sounds like a cheaper option than some I am reading about on this thread, and you get to learn how to mountain fly - you have no choice! No guaranteed job at the end, but like its always been with flying - if you persevere and make a few sacrifices you'll make it.

[asvsu]

hello 152 jockey..
the seen is very bad in india,..even those guys know kingfisher chairman..its impossible to get job..coz kingfisher is sending many experinced pilots out..no airlines recruiting now..thpusands of cpl holders job less.. hope things will improve in a year or two.. its always advisable to keep a secure job and do flying trg in the weekends or parttime..think before start and invest..

[dartagnan]

Hi gentlemen,.
there are plenty of jobs as a FI, but being a FI is only for suckers like me.Guys,
I remember when most guys said it sucks to teach, guess what?now it sucks to be an unemployed pilot with 200 hours and no instructor license.

Yes it s a good time to start, as long you pay airlines and me, I will have a job.
don't become a FI, this job sucks! all I want is your money!:ouch:
keep borrowing money...

[phoenixtv]

May I ask which school you will go finally?