Banks other than HSBC

[samee380]

I wanted to know if there are any other banks other than HSBC who would give a secured loan of upto £80,000 specifically for Pilot Trainees...?

Im interested in seeing options...

Thanks in advance

[student88]

I've got a feeling you're not going to get anywhere with the current climate in mind.

Good luck anyway!

S88:ok:

[EK4457]

A secured loan is still 'doable' for that ammount.

Seems a bit obvious, but do a search. Moneysupermarket.com springs to mind.

There is always a shark out there willing give credit if your house is big enough.

Obviously, the devil is in the detail. Don't expect a decent APR. And don't be surprised if they ask for you to have a lot more equity in the property than the loan amount to cover their arse in the current world of house price deflation.

Topic drift I know, but is this the best move right now? I'm certainly not a doom merchant but now is not the time to have to sell a house.

It sounds like you are funding an integrated course on 100% secured credit. Think about it. :\

EK

[daria-ox]

I'll give you some gooood advice.

Work full time, earn money, go modular, and do your training 'pay as you go'. :ok:

[ford cortina]

This guy is 19. No wonder the country is in a mess, read the previous post and grow up son.:ok:
However he has been accepted on to a Cabair course starting in Jan 2009, more lambs to the slaughter.

[geordiejet]

You won't get anywhere without a property, with lots of equity. Gambling with your parents life savings is Russian roulette at the best of times.

Do your parents a favour, and be open and honest with the facts, you owe it to them. Let them see all of the forums on here, and other forums, as well as the news - they must know this is not the best time to gamble the deeds to their home.

You won't be getting an airline job anytime soon - and only they pay wages massive enough to feed the monthly payment for debts of these schemes.

Think long and hard - you owe it to yourself, and your family. Also, don't think that Integrated is the only way- Ryanair and flyBe employ more pilots together than any other airline operating in the UK - and they both take pilots from a modular background.

Just my two pence.
Good luck!

[121ace]

As always, bloody pessimistic :ugh:

[daria-ox]

but that's the truth..

[Whirlygig]

To answer the question, no. HSBC are the only bank that offer the pilot training loan and even then only if the borrower has been accepted on a course with certain schools. OAT springs to mind but there may be others.

Cheers

Whirls

[mcgoo]

Even that is up to £50,000 maximum.

[EK4457]

To answer the question, no.

Wrong. He is looking for a secured loan. Pretty much any Tom, Dick or Harry will give up to £250,000 secured on a property if it is big enough and you own enough of it. Even now. They don't give a monkey's what it's for either.

Methinks we are getting confused between secured and non secured lending. Big difference.

wolves are going to start picking up the scent!

Correct. Especially those on the night shift with little to do!

EK

[hollingworthp]

Wrong. He is looking for a secured loan. Pretty much any Tom, Dick or Harry will give up to £250,000 secured on a property if it is big enough and you own enough of it. Even now. They don't give a monkey's what it's for either.

Methinks we are getting confused between secured and non secured lending. Big difference.

Leaving aside whether or not it is a good idea to even attempt to get such a loan, generally it is the Professional Studies Loans that is more of interest for training as they are packaged such that you essentially get a 2 year payment holiday so only commence repayment 6 months after the end of your training.

Clearly the traditional secured loan is an alternative but repayment will start MUCH sooner (probably 0-3 months) which means either finding the repayment sums during your training, or borrowing significantly more than you need to cover the first 21-24 payments in order to compare with the HSBC style PSL loan.

[one post only!]

Amazes me when people try and offer advice that doesn't fit in with what people want to hear its pessimistic and the wolves are out howling in the woods.

Some are just trying to say how it is. Look at the number of airlines going bust. LTE went this morning adding another name to a rapidly growing list. Most other European airlines are shelving growth plans. Very little recruitment coupled with a lot of experienced guys coming back onto the market equals bit of a wait for a shiny new 200 hr grad!! Better to hear a bit of pessimistic advice than...."yeah all is well mate, go for it. You will do your training and pop straight out into a jet job. Don't worry that huge secured loan on your parent’s house will be fine!"

If your parents can afford to have all that equity tied up, you are confident that while waiting to get a flying job you can afford the repayments (if still living at home you probably could) then go for it. Just think it through and listen to the gloomy advice because anything else will be a bonus. Things will pick up but there will be a big queue already waiting!

Don't shout down the people posting gloomy predictions, I’m sure they are just trying to help. There does seem to be a lot or rose tinted vision going on round here!
If you can afford the worst case scenario go for it. As someone said though be brutally honest with your parents, they deserve it. Good luck.

[Whirlygig]

EK4457, the OP asked about the HSC pilot training loan and if anyone else offered that scheme. Me and Mr. McGoo answered that question correctly. Talk about any other secured loan may be helpful information to the OP but it doesn't specifically answer his question.

I think you'll find that many mortgage lenders do care about what the borrowed funds are spent on especially in these days of credit crunch!

Cheers

Whirls

[MIKECR]

There is also the Career Development Loan, which offers up to £8000 maximum unsecured. Not quite the full 80k for an integrated course, but certainly a help to those who may be looking for a bit of extra funding.

As far as I can remember, the payments can be deferred up to 18 months. I got mine through the Royal Bank of Scotland 2 years ago...not sure if theyre still offering it now, given the current climate.

I used mine for funding the ATPL groundschool and exams, but I know others who've used it for help with the MEIR or FI rating. I dont think it really matters, just as long as you can justify in your busniness plan what the money is for.

[EK4457]

Ok. I think we are getting mixed up with HSBC products now.

Hollingworthp - HSBC PSL is unsecured, limited to £25,000 and not available for pilot training. Whilst I agree it is a 'nice' loan, he can't get it. No wannabe can anymore. Besides, it wouldn't even pay for the uniform on an integrated course. He is not talking about this.

Whirlygig and Samee. I think the confusion arises from the fact that samee clearly doesn't have a scooby's what he is talking about:

I wanted to know if there are any other banks other than HSBC who would give a secured loan of upto £80,000 specifically for Pilot Trainees...?

No such thing exists. The HSBC Oxford branch offer £50,000 secured for OAA students only. Even those cowboys will not go above £50,000, so you are pissing in the wind trying to get £80,000.

If you want £80,000 secured, go and see Carol Vorderman's loan sharks. They'll see you coming a mile off with your mum and dad's title deeds in one hand and your Cabair acceptance letter in the other. I'm sure you will tell them all about the pilot shortage at the moment.

It is shocking to see a 19 year old playing around with other people's life savings without a clue what they are doing. I blame the parents!

I think you'll find that many mortgage lenders do care about what the borrowed funds are spent on

These sharks specialise in debt consolidation. Proof that they don't care what the money was (or is) spent on. They care about your property.

EK

[samee380]

I have got savings and have worked during my A-Levels! I live with my parents who house value is £350,000. And i happily contribute to bills! So i was wondering if there was another bank who could secure that loan on top of the property. I have heard Natwest and Bank of Scotland do some in individuality concern.

Personally, do not judge an individual the way they act on forums, unless you have met them or know them personally! This goes to some of the arrogant people here.

Otherwise thanks for the advice it is good to weigh up options and think.

[rick0]

Someone on the OAA forums said they talked to Natwest and were able to get £75,000 secured loan and up to £20,000 for a type rating if given a job offer. Same terms as HSBC.. 6 months after coruse completion to pay it back, 3.25% interest rate if you have a bank accoutn with them etc. Also think some chap mentioned RBS would do them a loan of a similiar amount.

I'm also thinking of this - but a lesser amount - it would silly to take a £75k loan - do the maths and you'll see.

samee380 - don't put your doing A-Levels on here :pthe usual bunch are just waiting to give you a lecture on how people of the same age group are immature, slackers, leechers, should work for years and pay it all yourself etc! :ugh:

EK4457 - playing with life savings?? err don't think so.. HSBC won't give you it unless you can prove you can earn £20k p/a if everything goes tits up.

Do you really think a bank manager would just give a £80k loan to a 18/19 year old?? thats what it looks like you're saying.

[andyandlinda]

Not to do with flying but i have managed to secure a £75,000 loan through the Natwest for a business I am buying total cost is £140,000 I have a 65k deposit.

The best intrest rate at the moment is 3.0% over base rate even with a large deposit and the rest secured on a house so I cant see anyone getting a better rate for a flight training course.

[EK4457]

Goodness me.

Samee, you really don't need to tell us you live with your parents who have a big house. We could tell.

Working during A levels to pay for an £80,000 course. Just gets better.

rick0:

Someone on the OAA forums said they.......

Did they really?

3.25% interest rate

They offer the best interest rate on planet earth do they? Why not just put it in a savings account which offers 5.5% and earn interest for the rest of your life? Because it's bollox, thats why.

It's more probably like 3.25% above the base rate, if you even understand what that means.

playing with life savings?? err don't think so

Well you should. Most people's life investment is their house. Perhaps your parents all have assets (or cash reserves) which are more valuable than their house. But if they don't (more than likely), their house is very much most if not all of their life savings. And you are playing with it.

HSBC won't give you it unless you can prove you can earn £20k p/a if everything goes tits up.

Firstly how do you prove you can get a job in 24 months time? Secondly, do you think you can pay back a 75k loan and live on this money?

Do you really think a bank manager would just give a £80k loan to a 18/19 year old?? thats what it looks like you're saying

That is a fact. Providing ma and pa's house is nice enough.

This thread is turning into a classic for all the wrong reasons. And the like of WWW haven't even got involved get. They'll eat you alive....

EK

[G SXTY]

I suspect WWW's given up.

samee380
It's good to see that you want to see some options. At the risk of being labelled a pessimist / big bad wolf etc, can I just ask why you are interested in a loan for £80k for pilot training? In October 2008?

[samee380]

I am just looking for options. My father (thanks so much to him) has already re-mortgaged his house and got £70,000. However, i was just wondering if i could do the loan myself without parents help. Just to show some interest in the money matter, as alot of 19 year olds dont care about the money issue....and get confused.

So i will be approaching Natwest for advice and info.... And have also enquired about Career Development Loan which do help, the £8000 could help with accomodation.

Im just seeing options thats all...

[G SXTY]

Fair enough, but you can probably guess what I am getting at.

It's just that if you took a straw poll of the professional pilots on here (as opposed to your fellow wannabes), the majority of them would advise against spending money on an integrated course just at the moment. Does that bother you at all?

I'm not trying to be clever - feel free to PM me if you prefer.

[Adios]

Here's a link to the OAA thread Ricko refers to, which might shed some relevant perspective on Samee380's OP: ask.oxfordaviation.net • View topic - Loan not through HSBC (http://ask.oxfordaviation.net/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=4691)

[rick0]

Did they really?"Natwest in Oxford are sending me an Agreement in Principle (AIP) for a loan of £75,000 to cover course and living expenses." From the OAA forums.

They offer the best interest rate on planet earth do they? Why not just put it in a savings account which offers 5.5% and earn interest for the rest of your life? Because it's bollox, thats why.

It's more probably like 3.25% above the base rate, if you even understand what that means.Yeah I thought you'd assume thats what I meant.. seemingly not... really don't appreciate your condescending, arrogant BS :rolleyes:

Firstly how do you prove you can get a job in 24 months time? Secondly, do you think you can pay back a 75k loan and live on this money?
If you actually did some RESEARCH and got your facts right.. HSBC only loan £50,000. And what's 24 months got to do with anything....?

That is a fact. Providing ma and pa's house is nice enough.How is it a fact? A high street bank manager would have none of it unless there really was a realistic chance of paying it back fully.

[rick0]

Fair enough, but you can probably guess what I am getting at.

It's just that if you took a straw poll of the professional pilots on here (as opposed to your fellow wannabes), the majority of them would advise against spending money on an integrated course just at the moment. Does that bother you at all?

I'm not trying to be clever - feel free to PM me if you prefe

That's an interesting point but they take 1.5(ish) years to complete? lot of time for the industry to change.

I've spoken to a few pro. pilots and one who did it said it was great.. others who took the modular route, didn't. But hey, it must be easy to say "my route was best" when they're sitting in a RHS!

[samee380]

I understand that at this point in time it is not good for Pilot Jobs. However, every business has its ups and downs. So at this moment in time i would think it would be a good time to start training and in 1.5 years things might/hopefully pick up and they will be alot of phone calls from airlines to FTO's...etc This is a bad time for people who have just finished their training.

Life is a risk....you have to risk to gain. However, i am still thinking. I may go the modular route but i prefer the integrated as its all together and looked well upon by Airlines. Not saying anything that the Modular route is wrong. They both have advantages and disadvantages.

Nevertheless its great reading posts...good advice and something to think about

:ok:

[Celtic Pilot]

Ricko

Nope HSBC offer more than 50K if the security is a large equity.. They quoted

90% of property value + Outstanding mortage balance = Max amount for loan

Get the facts...asked that already!!!!

[G-SPOTs Lost]

You are gambling on 18 months if its 24 months you are at the back of the queue that will be huge.

There is nothing to say that they still wont be mopping up XL/Futura/Zoom/Spanair crews and all the others that are going skint this winter with fuel hedged at $120 with the price at $75

You are only 19 - listen to the folowing words ....you are certifiable to borrow 70k for training right now.......

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w69/dave_brown1970/OAA.jpg

[EK4457]

Rick0 - You miss my point. I'm not denying that someone has got £75,000 secured on their parents house. If you look back, I am the first to say that it is very easy. My point is that you are justifying spending your parents' house on the basis that an unknown person on an anonymous forum did. Not really a water tight arguement. Thats my point.

You also said:

And what's 24 months got to do with anything....?

The course will take you 18 months if you go well. Plan for 24, despite what the glossy brochure says. How can you guarantee you will have a £20,000 p/a job if it all goes tits up?

really don't appreciate your condescending, arrogant BS

Sorry for ruffling your feathers. But you were 5% out on an APR. You also don't think that your parents house is classed as life savings. You also contradict yourself. Example:

Someone on the OAA forums said they talked to Natwest and were able to get £75,000 secured loan and up to £20,000 for a type rating if given a job offer.

and then

Do you really think a bank manager would just give a £80k loan to a 18/19 year old??

In the real world, you get told when you come accross as being out of your depth. Sorry if I offended you.

Much love

EK

[G SXTY]

OK, on my type rating course the low hours guys split pretty much 50/50 between integrated and modular. No great preference one way or the other so far as my airline is concerned. I followed the modular route, it suited my circumstances and worked out well. If I'd started at a different time and had access to the money I might have gone integrated - as you say, they both have their pros and cons.

BUT - there is one massive and indisputable advantage with the modular route. You can slow down or speed up your training to suit the job market. I cannot over-emphasise how important it is to qualify when the job market is good. If you pass the IR during a downturn, you will struggle to compete with experienced out of work pilots, not to mention the many other low-hours guys who qualified ahead of you and are still looking for work. Instrument flying skills degrade very quickly, and it can be ruinously expensive trying to maintain currency. When the upturn finally comes, your CV will look stale compared with people who have come through the system after you.

The great majority of current wannabes were not training at the time of 9/11. You have not seen a full cycle of this industry, and just how bad the job market can become for pilots. The list of bankrupt airlines is growing practically by the week, and with every new casualty comes another pile of CVs of experienced type rated pilots. What chance do you think someone with 200hrs stands against guys with 2000 plus jet hours?

This downturn is only just getting going. Winter is when airlines start to hurt, and in the present climate I would be astonished if we make it through to next spring without at least one more UK carrier going bust. In a few months you may well be competing with hundreds of experienced pilots for your first job.

Ahh, but if I start training now I won't be qualified for 14 months or so, by which time the job market will look much better. That is seriously unlikely. Research how long these industry downturns last. Look how long the effects of 9/11 and the first Gulf War lasted. Once the industry bottoms out, it will take a year or so just to soak up all the experienced out of work pilots. I genuinely believe - having seen all this before - that anyone planning on qualifying in the next two or three years will seriously struggle to find a job.

Timing is everything.

[rick0]

Celtic Pilot - Is this the loan from HSBC for Oxford? Or is it totally seperate? Someone on a OAA course said a few students got turned down by HSBC because they could not prove they could earn £21k p/a (I assume because of experience, age etc). So why would they offer more to some people at a young age..?

EK - I was typing quickly.. i'm full aware (and was) about the interest rates are that plus the base rate.. I put 3.25% as it differs a lot from HSBC's (OAA's loan scheme) of 2%. Thus assuming everyone would think that plus the base rate.

As for this 'contradiction' the person in question isn't 18/19 is he? I haven't looked that up.. oh well praps I did.

But I got the impression you meant that any TV loan company would just give you up to £100k if you signed a house away. I can imagine a high street banks would be more sensible when lending..


G SXTY - Looks like that last bit was aimed at me ;) Well it was a question.. I really don't know what the forecasts look like and how accurate they are.. look at the crude oil yearly forecasts.. were showing $150 a barrel a few months ago. And yeah, I don't know what industry analysists are saying.

[ChrisLKKB]

I feel sorry for the parents. I hope they are young enough to recoup their losses and still save for their retirement.

Getting yourself in debt to fund an ill timed fantasy is one thing, getting your folks to mortgage their future is another.

You are right to look for alternative methods of funding and if you have any sense of responsibility you will get the old man to pay that 70K back to the bank and cover any losses incurred out your own pocket.

Once you've done that, pick up a broadsheet newspaper, take a long hard look at the economic climate and reevaluate your actual chances of getting a job that enables you to pay this loan back in a reasonable time frame.

At 19 what's the rush to start your trainning at a time when you are likely to finish up when the number of applicants are going to far outweigh the number of airline positions available.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I haven't quite given up but the Wannabe Zombie Army of Debt Slaves has taken its toll and I thank all of those that have helped defend the line in my absence in romantic Paris (what a city - what a beautiful city).

Its all been said by others on this thread. Borrowing from your parents house to do a high speed high cost pilot training course now is madder than Mad Jack Mc Mad, winner of last years Mr Madman contest, buying a new pair of exploding fish trousers from Hartlepool (to segway Blackadder quotes).

At least 700 newly minted <200hr pilots will join those that currently have no job and no job prospects. Rush to join them if you must.



WWW

[Aerospace101]

i would think it would be a good time to start training and in 1.5 years things might/hopefully pick up and they will be alot of phone calls from airlines to FTO's

Another starry eyed wannabe zombie about to be thrown like cattle to the slaughter.

Whats all this 'phone calls from airlines to FTOs' bolleux? More marketing hype... When times were good 1-2yrs ago this was like flybe and ba only; ba aint gona be making any more calls for yrs...
In fact i thought it was the other way round. students were calling ryanair to see if they would take them and their 20K.

[one post only!]

For the love of god please please listen to the last few posts. They are right. Read and process what they are saying!

rick0 you sum it up sooooo nicely - "and yeah I don't know what the industry analyst’s are saying", well they are not saying wonderful things!

samee380, you are going to do it no matter what, by the sounds of it your dad has already borrowed the money. Just don't expect to get a jet job in 18 months time! I really really want to see a "ha I told you so!!" post on here when you get taken on but I worry there may be another "where are all the jobs???" post.

Good luck and at least you have thought it through more than some others and by the sounds of it can service the loan even if it takes you years and years to get a well paid aviation job.

[Lazy Gun]

I completely agree with WWW and G-SXTY. Now is not the time to start a full time course. If you spread out your training and pay for as much as you can as you go it will lessen your problems. I want to fly commercially just as much as any one else.

I did the ATPL exams and I am about to start the CPL. The difference is that I decided to slow things right down. I was going to go for the full metal jacket: CPL, ME, IR, MCC.

Given the situation I decided against it and now I am training for the CPL-SE and FI. I have saved practically all the cash for the CPL-SE and FI by taking my time and taking it slow. Yes, I still have a little debt but it is a lot smaller than it could have been (2000 euros compared to scary amounts)! The risk is much smaller for me so I feel more willing to test the water (for what it is worth). I am still concerned off course, since I will still be looking for that first instructor job. A few people think I am crazy for doing it this way, I have been urged to just "get all the ratings" and “get your ATPL and get into the market...why waste time on the FI course?". Well working as a teacher is certainly not a waste of time and yes I will have problems getting that first job as well. The difference is that I will not have an enormous loan bearing down on me and I can finish the additional ratings and spread out the rest of my training as the situation permits. If lady luck feels like a dance I might even have a few hundred hours of teaching experience to go with that shiny new IR when I eventually get it. Yea what if it all goes south? Well, I thought that one through and worked very hard on my back up plan too. I am painfully aware of these things. :sad:

I urge you to consider the whole situation, listen to the advice of people who really do know the market and assimilate the facts before making decisions that could effect you for a long time to come. Don't listen like a zombie to the FTOs they will tell you what you want to hear! Trust me, from personal experience I have heard one FTO after the other spout an enormous amount of crap about the job market. Do your own research as well! I think now is a good time for being flexible (or holding off on the training all together) rather than blindly working on every rating in one go for the hope of a job.

LG


PS- WWW, G-SXTY and the rest... don't give up. :)

[Re-Heat]

I have got savings and have worked during my A-Levels! I live with my parents who house value is £350,000
Do NOT borrow on your parent's house.

We are entering a severe recession. If you look back to the end of the 80s / beginning of 90s recession, it took far longer than a year and a half for the aviation job market to recover. 1994 is something I seem to recall - five years after the crash of 1989.

[Grass strip basher]

Sesame you have just finished your A-levels.... you are not going to like what I have to say but I'll say it anyway....

1) You have no idea how much money £80k is to repay as you have never had a full time job.... add interest it is over 100k

2) Making your parents remortgage their house that is already falling in value in a market where the chance of you getting a job in 12-18 months is slim at best is just one thing... Selfish....

3) Take 2 years out, work full-time, get a bit of life experience and save some cash then you will be in a better position.

4) You are being driven by the "I want it now" attitude that will get you in deep deep sh*t if you go down the route you are taking in the current environment.

You might not like to hear this but it is the truth. Go away for 2 years and grow up... straight out of school and living with your mum and dad you know jack sh*t about the real world and you are an integrated FTOs wet dream becuase you are the sort of people they are going to need to keep them viable over the next 2-3 years when there a NO jobs for young wanabees.

Those people warning you to ignore the "doomsters" are the wolves... a fool and his (and his parents) money are easily parted.

Read the FT, economist any bloody newspaper.... what you are planning is nuts :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[samee380]

^I have taken a year out and have worked for over a year now! By the time i start training that will be 1.5 years of work done!

Some of you guys are talking like you have met me? How ridiculous! Do not make assumptions!

Silly

and btw its not "Sesame"

[tom775257]

<<That's the spirit, George. If nothing else works, then a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.>>

I have around 1500 medium jet hours and I am worried about whether I will still be employed soon. My personal recommendation like most other people would be to hang on for a while. What is the rush? You have a lifetime's flying ahead of you. Just be patient for your own sake. If the cycle period is around 10 years, I would think wait for the upswing before thinking about training.

Just my thoughts, others like WWW have a much greater level of understanding of the industry than me.

[rick0]

rick0 you sum it up sooooo nicely - "and yeah I don't know what the industry analyst’s are saying", well they are not saying wonderful things!Please elaborate..? I notice you didn't take my other point into account. I'm fully aware that the outlook (in the near future) is bad and don't really appreciate you making me look as I don't have a clue on what's going on.

I don't see some vague "airlines are going to go bust in the next few months" from a airline boss as 'industry analysis'. I mean indepth stuff, forecasts, looking at every influencing factor etc.

I, as of yet, have not come up with any of the above. Perhaps a few quotes from aviation consultant firms but that's about it.

[3Greens]

Airline industry association IATA has said it still expects industry losses in 2009 of $4.1 billion next year as the global economy slows down.

IATA has forecast a loss of $5.2 billion for 2008 as a result of higher fuel prices and falling demand.

Although fuel prices have dropped since the high of $147 a barrel in July, IATA said it was sticking to its forecast for 2009 as revenues are under pressure due to the weakening global economy.

“The industry is highly geared to the economic cycle and has always suffered substantial losses in previous economic downturns,” said an IATA spokesman.

“As a result, and despite fuel costs now likely to be much lower than expected at the time of this forecast, our forecast for further losses amounting to $4.1 billion in 2009 still looks a plausible outcome.”

[Grass strip basher]

Told you you wouldn't like in Samee.... but I guarantee you if you go down the route you are taking you will look back in 12 months and know that what I have told you is very true.

So you have taken "a year out".... sorry but you are still bloody naive.... we have all been there.... ask yourself how long have you paid a mortgage for? How much have you put in your pension pot? How are you going to send you kids to private school? Paying back c100k over 10 years will kind of cramp your style.... but I am sure you know that.... anyone who quotes the years they have been working with a "decimal point" (1.5!!) has soooo much life experience.

So how much have you saved towards the cost of an integrated course in your year off??.... if you are borrowing 70k clearly not a a lot.

SMELL THE COFFEE BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE YOU MUPPET!!!! LISTEN TO WHAT PEOPLE ARE TELLING YOU...... THERE WILL BE NO JOBS IN 12-18 MONTHS!!!!!

Minimise the cost and the risk..... work + save plus help out at your local flying club at weekends etc to get your flying kicks.... you are VERY YOUNG AND HAVE LOADS OF TIME! You could wait 5 years and go integrated in your mid-twenties and still be piss board of commercial flying by your mid-thirties!

You have been warned but I fear it is your parents who will bear the consequences if you remortgage their house..... :(

Why don't you get your parents to sit down with you and read this thread and see what they think..... or are you scared that a reality check would worry them???

[Re-Heat]

rick0

Analysts are all typically predicting that all airlines will be reducing capacity and maintaining a close watch on costs going into a recession.

What are you looking for - someone to say definitively that their airline will not survive, as you certainly will not find anyone saying that at all. You will only see that days before the airline fails, in a similar manner to XL.

[ChrisLKKB]

Bless his little cotton socks, he's 19 years old, done a years work, a whole 12 months and he knows it all.

Awww, it kind of reminds me of when I was young, albeit I didn't have a 100K mill stone round my neck and my prospects were good. Fortunately I mostly knew when to take good advice when it was given to me.

I blame this childcentric culture for that encouraging todays children that their opinions actually count for something before they've even done anything of any significance in this world to warrant them having an opinion, gawd help us.

Get a grip son, use your Bilberry or Ipod to read the Telegraph or Times on-line rather than fannying around on those social networking sites et al and wake up to the real world.

[Whirlygig]

Samee, as a rough guide, a 25 year mortgage of £70,000 would cost about £470 a month. The same amount over 10 years would £790. Your take home pay on a salary of £22k would be about £1,400 a month. Added to this is the fact that your parents would have to be paying the mortgage whilst you're training i.e. for 18 months before you start earning, and maybe even longer if you cann't find a job after qualifying. You'll be living at home for an awfully long time!

Cheers

Whirls

[ford cortina]

And all that is assuming that he can get a job with someone like Flybe after all this training, after all there has never been a shortage of pilots looking for a first job.:confused:

[Celtic Pilot]

on 70,000 I would think that the repayments is more than that, I reckon it would be closer to 1K....

prob £980 per month!!!

(((quote from HSBC

65,000 for 9 years pay back = £920 (2% above base rate interest

73,000 for 9 years pay back is £1,020 )))

now subtract that from your taking's home and you'll probably be left with about £500 to do you all month and if you are lucky enough to get a job then subtract you rent from that again, The rest is then up to you for the whole month,,, I advise food!!!

Start cutting them offers outa the back of the local paper!!!!!

:ok:

work some more, thats what im doing!!!!! and dont spend save every penny and it will reduce them payments significantly.... your only bloody 19./.... I fell sorry for the people that want to do it and age is a bearing factor... they are the real people who should reali think about what to do!!!!! NOT YOU.

[redsnail]

Nah,

Don't listen to all us old folk who've been working for over 20 years.
What would we know? After all, our Flight Ops Directors are idiots so when they say commands will be slower and hiring paused, they're having a laugh.

Yeah, crack on, mortgage your parents house to the hilt and get stuck in.
Get amongst it. I know BA, Cathay and Virgin Atlantic will be waiting for you to finish so they can fight amongst themselves to offer you a direct entry fast track command slot. :E

[Whirlygig]

The figures were obtained from my own mortgage provider who is a building society; wonder why I didn't go to HSBC?

If Mr. & Mrs. Samee go to their existing mortgage provider they should get a reasonable deal as I quoted. However, it is still a lot to expect a) ones parents to pay and b) repay on any salary befitting a 21 year old!

Cheers

Whirls

[Leezyjet]

I just don't see at 19 what the rush is, especially in this current climate. You can easily afford to wait until you are 23, save the money and still by flying by the time you are 25, which will still leave you in a good place on any seniority list. I didn't start my training until 30, and I'll be 34 by the time I'm finished, but that still leaves 31 years until I have to retire.

If you really really must start, I cannot emphasise enough that Integrated is not the way to go in this current climate. If shop A can sell you a tin of baked beans for 50p, and shop B is selling exactly the same tin of beans for £1, which would you buy ?.

All this talk about X airline only taking integrated is nonsense. You have to ask what are my chances of actually getting a job with that airline anyway ?. There are plenty more airlines that are happy to take modular trained pilots that you can apply to, and if you really have to work for X airlines, then just apply later when you have worked elsewhere for a while as they will still take you on.

Just think very long and very hard about what you are getting into. You could take a £25K unsecured loan that will cost a little over £300/month for 8 years, and that will get you the CPL/ME/IR done in the UK and some of the hour building if you went overseas, so if you worked for a couple of years you could save the rest for the PPL and ATPL ground school and not have to worry about having to pay out over £1k/month before you even get out of bed for the next 10 years and you also won't have risked your parents home.

You could always do full time modular if you so wished, but at least it still gives you the option to stop training at any stage.

:hmm:

[JB007]

For the love of god please please listen to the last few posts. They are right. Read and process what they are saying!

Ditto!

I trained during 9/11, although i'm employed now with a good job...i'm also drop zone in terms of seniority (you'll learn to love that word!) and could lose my job before Summer 2009 along with many others to flood the UK market...

Join us on Planet Earth Sam, it will all come round again (Isn't that a Carly Simon song...???) But timing is every thing and you're just about to make a big boob!

Leezyjet - hope you're well!

[one post only!]

rick0 - I wasn't having a go. What I meant is that a lot of people on here will not listen to well meant advice from people who have been in the industry for a long time and have a good understanding of what’s taking place. So many people seem happy to blunder on in and worry about the consequences later.
There is quite a bit of detailed information related to the industry out there. Takes a bit of digging to get to it. I am fortunate that a lot of relevant stuff is posted for me to read on my union/company forums. There is also a lot of info in industry/union publications etc. This means that wanabees don't get access to the same info we have and therefore may not fully understand what is happening inside the industry. That is not your fault!!

Because we understand that we are provided with more detailed information we then try to offer advice based on our knowledge of said information. It then gets ignored because people who don't have access to the information don't realise that their mental model is fundamentally flawed!

My point is so many people are making a huge financial decision without really truly understanding what’s going on at the moment. It wasn't really aimed at you (try and guess who it was aimed at)!

Anyway I'm off to try and save fuel now to keep my company in business!

[hollingworthp]

Lol - my home router blocks all ads and this is the first time I have logged on from 'outside' and was amused to see google ads for HSBC at the bottom of the last post ;)

[Seaton81]

samee,
my advice would be to apply for the NetJets scheme at OAA.

Then by all means borrow against the 'rents house as your on a shoe-in for a c.£40k salary from which NJ will deduct/reclaim your training costs.

Toughest integrated course to make it onto by all accounts (including mine! failed..) but what a job! and for such minimal financial risk.


Think about it... when the sh*t hits the fan, who does it affect more... mass transit of lower income folk to the costa's.. or millionares/billionaires wanting to fly at their convenience?

[samee380]

Decision: Delaying training. Will do my PPL at Newcastle Airport first and see how things go after that... Attending medical tommorrow at LGW (so wait for that).

Thanks for all advice.

[Whirlygig]

Good decisions!!

Cheers

Whirls

[ChrisLKKB]

Good choice samee380. There's nothing to stop you getting hold of some ATPL course work notes and getting a head start. Best of luck.

[samee380]

In the meantime will take some flying lessons at the weekends while i work (Bus Driver :})

And yes i have the Revision Notes for the ATPL Exams...will take a look at them!

[preduk]

Best of luck buddy, good decision!

Let us know how you get on with the PPL :ok:

[Grass strip basher]

Samee congratulations.... that is probably one of the most important decisions you will make and it is almost certainly the right one.

You will get to the flight deck one day if that is what you really want but you have saved yourself (and your parents) a huge amount of heartache on the way.

Just get out there and enjoy getting invovled at your local flying club.... you may even meet a few contacts that will prove invaluable 3-4 years down the line when things start to pick up. :D:D:D

[ford cortina]

Samee good on you anything we can help with, just shout:ok:

[G SXTY]

A very sensible decision, and shows the sort of judgement that bodes well for the future.

Best of luck & enjoy your training! :ok:

[one post only!]

Good call. Go and have some fun flying and figure out from there how you want to proceed. The important thing is you have got time to work it all out!

Enjoy the lessons.

[JB007]

Good call!http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/happy/happy0065.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-cool-smileys.php)http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/happy/happy0158.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-cool-smileys.php)http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/happy/happy0180.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-scared-smileys.php)

[heli_port]

watch zeitgeist the original, the addendum and then see if you want any type of loan..

Zeitgeist - The Movie (http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/)

http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/mad/mad0233.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/freesmiley.php?smiley=mad/mad0233.gif)

[samee380]

Thanks guys!

Like i said i am always open to options.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

You've made the right decision. You'll make it in the end. We were all Wannabes once...

Enjoy your PPL flying, years from now you'll look back at it wistfully and mutter that it was the best flying you ever did. I promise.


WWW

[Reluctant737]

Samee,

Hi buddy - whether or not what you've done is a right or wrong decision is not for anybody here to decide, but for you personally. From my perspective, there's always hope and employment for those who go out there and take it, but you need to be prepared to travel around and pick up what you can, and that means not being streamlined towards airline work. If you're living at home, damn near any flying job will pay the debts accumulated through funding an integrated course. I wish you luck with the PPL man, you'll have a great time, and WWW is most correct in saying you shall one day be reminded of it as the best days of your flying career!

All the best, A.

p.s. EK4457, chill out dude, you're 21 years old, you'll have a heart attack before you're 30 if you let virtual axe grinding get to you this much. It's all good man seriously, we're all in the same boat here. I don't like it, but it's what we got. It also seems odd that you should slate somebody for their age who is the same age as you near enough? I'm 19, I work the big iron, so can he - the sun wasn't exactly shining out the proverbial ass when I got this job. I did all this whilst having a child to support also, which means also working part time as a taxi driver and carer :ok: So indeed, if one can do so, anybody can! Fly high.

[one post only!]

Tbe big iron?? Do you work in a dry cleaners??? :}

As I fly an airbus do I say I work the big plastic? Big iron, love it, will remember that!