pilot incapacitation on regional

[mgTF]

Hi, I'm curios to know which are your company policy in case of an incapacitation, on a regional plane with just 2 flt attendant?

i.e., does one of them stay in the cockpit reading checklist, talking to the radio, also during landing?
i.e., does them all stay in the back, keeping thay normal seat position, in order to cope with another emergengy, evacuation?

thanks to all...

[grebllaw123d]

Hi,

I have flown both regional size aircraft and bigger aircraft in the same company.

Same procedure : In case of pilot incapacitation, immediately call the cabin attendants in order to have the affected pilot removed from the cockpit - they have learned to operate the seat and seatbelt.
The cabin attendants then give the sick pilot first aid, if applicable.

The remaining pilot is now on his own - does all the functions in the cockpit alone and lands at nearest airport.

We often train this procedure in the simulator.

Brgds

grebllaw123d

[411A]

The remaining pilot is now on his own - does all the functions in the cockpit alone and lands at nearest airport.


Likewise, in the rather large jet transport that I fly.
CC on the FD are a total waste of time, during this scenario.
CC belong in the cabin, as they positively have no technical expertise, whatsoever, with regard to FD procedures.

Some might think they have...they are sadly mistaken.

[Piltdown Man]

...and to reinforce 411A's comments. Try a pilot incapication in the sim. with cabin crew. You may well find that cabin crew have been trained to (immediately) try and move your incapacited colleague away from the controls, without regard to the deck angle. Depending on the size of the pilot and the seat travel you may well find now yourself out of control as your former colleague slides into the control column. But should this not occur, instead you may well end up conducting a rather pointless and longwided checklist reading lesson just as you re-learn the finer nuances of "side-in-control logic" and other such malarky. Tell them by all means (you will probably have to have the cabin secured earlier than normal anyway) and brief then on what you intend to do and what it expected of them. But you do the flying and the checklists and they stick with what they are good at.

PM

[Dani]

There is a common misconception about moving an incapacitated pilot out of the pilots seat. This is hardly ever necessary, because you can fix him in his seat, with shoulder harness, with whatever comes your way. It's only necessary if laying him/her down offers greater comfort or reducing his/her suffering.

Contrary to above's opinion, a CA in the cockpit offers great benefit, but not by reading checklists aso, but by helping to secure the incapacited pilot, by easing communication to the cabin, bringing an additional crewbag from the closet in the back of the cockpit aso.

As soon as you fly on your own, you don't read checklists anymore, you just do what you have to do, and if there is time you go through them silently. Cockpits are designed that you can bring down that thing alone. So just do it!

Dani

[Artificial Horizon]

As above except for the fact that I would always request that if enough cabin crew available I would request that one stays on the flightdeck purely in the role of observer just incase I too then keel over due to the stress of it all. I would be very unlikely to try and get them to actually play any part in the operation unless I had knowledge that they actually had some relevant experience, suprising how many crew I fly with that have atlease a ppl/cpl/atpl.

[411A]

...I fly with that have atlease a ppl/cpl/atpl.

Careful there...that 'pilot' CC may then start to tell you that you are doing it all wrong....:rolleyes::}

[mgTF]

I'm full agree in thinking everyone should stay in its own place doing the job that's trained to, but as there are some colleagues who often say this kind of stuff I just wanted another point of view!

[Roy Bouchier]

An actual example.
Some twenty minutes from our destination, our home base, the captain slumped over, unconscious. He was a large man and never wore the full harness en route. Fortunately he did not slump forward on to the yoke.
I called the FA who managed to get him upright and secure him with the shoulder harness while administering first aid. It would have been impossible and highly dangerous to have attempted to move him.
Although there were a couple of closer airports, in view of the weather and the higher workload that would have been required, I elected to continue to our destination.
The FA was invaluable as she contacted the company on frequency, advised them of the situation and arranged for paramedics and an ambulance to meet us.
For checklist I used the essential memory items and we landed without incident.
Happy ending was that the skipper made a full recovery.

[Stuck_in_an_ATR]

So, the view on the role of the CC during a pilot incapation is pretty consistent... And yet my company SOP's require me to have CC read the checklists - this way not only I have to fly the a/c, talk on the radio, but also couch the poor CC trying to read something she hasn't got a clue about... :yuk:

[Roy Bouchier]

Sounds as though your company subscribe to the modern mantra that SOP's are a replacement for commonsense and what we used to call airmanship.

[Romeo India Xray]

With regard to CC playing something of an operational flight deck role in the event of an incapacitation, was it not a member of BA CC who was praised for his handling of the checklist items and generally acting as PNF (including liaising with ATC) on a trans Atlantic sector not so many moons ago. CC had a PPL.

A good friend of mine was former CC and held 757 rating on a CPL. While probably not being up to speed on company SOPs, more than qualified to handle navs rads and checklists.

In at least one other case, I heard of a member of CC getting CPL with type rating, flying a season in the RHS then going back into the cabin as CC at the end of the season. Hardly someone not qualified or capable.

In general though, unless a member of the CC were to fit into something like the profiles above, then I would rather do without the hinderance.

RIX

[chornedsnorkack]

This is hardly ever necessary, because you can fix him in his seat, with shoulder harness, with whatever comes your way. It's only necessary if laying him/her down offers greater comfort or reducing his/her suffering.

Is that really rare? Seeing how, e. g., fainting due to low blood supply to brain is easily overcome when the subject collapses (head to heart level) yet life-threatening if the head is held up in sitting position.

[Dani]

Depending on type you can put the seat recline in such a way that you lay flat, well, more or less.

It's really new to me that one's company calls for CC to read the checklists. Well, SOPs are a good thing, but in an emergency, you are always allowed to deviate. So do it their way in training, make your thoughts and prepare yourself how you would really do it.

Dani

[atpcliff]

Hi!

At least one airline in Britain, and 1 on the continent, trains ALL their CC how to help the sole pilot in the cockpit. So, their SOP is to send at least one CC to the cockpit.

SOPs don't replace common sense, but they help to reign in the pilots (usually Capts) that want to do it "their way" even though it goes AGAINST common sense.

The USAF did not have checklists, as they saw no need. Then, their BEST pilot and best crew, was test flying a B-29, and it crashed, because they screwed up the procedure. Someone pointed out that capt/crew wasn't good enough, and they just needed to find better pilots.

BUT, thank God, someone in the AF, WITH common sense, pointed out that the Capt was considered "The Best" pilot they had, and that the B-29 was simply too complicated, and they needed to devise some way to ensure that things were done properly, in the correct sequence: The Checklist, and SOPs.

cliff
LFW