License conversion UK JAA to Oz CASA

[eagle21]

Hi , I would like to know if when you do complete this conversion you still keep your old license.

Also I would like to get in touch with people that have gone this path with their JAA ATPL and rating on a commercial a/c ( A320, B737).

My understanding is you need to complete 2 flight rules and airlaw exam, plus the IREX exam and a flight test.

Are there any shool near Brisbane able to help?

Thanks for your help.

[Tinstaafl]

Conversion doesn't mean 'give up your foreign licence and receive the local variety in return'. It means recognition of your overseas qualifications & experience to allow some amount of bypassing the normal training & testing requirements.

The CASA website has the details about what is required to convert an overseas licence: Civil Aviation Safety Authority (http://www.casa.gov.au)

[Capt Chambo]

I have just done that exact conversion, JAR ATPL A320 & B737 series to an Australian ATPL.
CASA require confirmation from the UK CAA that you are "bona fida" and for that you need to get the CAA to send CASA a letter and pay the CAA £38. You will need to get the "last few" pages of your log book certified as well as copies of your licence. I did that in Brisbane at the CASA office near the airport. That all gets sent off to Canberra and you will then hear form CASA presently.
I had to do CPL Air Law, ATPL Air Law, and the IREX exam. They have no time limitation on them, so when I am ready I will need to do a Class 1 Medical and the flight test.
Feel free to send me pm if you want further information.
CC

[Tinstaafl]

Just like all other authorities that I'm aware, CASA will only recognise the licence you *currently* hold and not some potential licence you may qualify to hold in the future. What is printed on your licence is what they'll recognise, no matter how many hours you have, and no more. As I'm sure you're aware, but for the benefit of others, there is no such thing as a 'Frozen ATPL'. That term is nothing more than shorthand for CPL + IR + passes in ATPL theory - and exam passes don't transfer.

There is no requirement to hold an MPA endorsement for an Oz ATPL so whether you hold that endorsement or not is irrelevent.

Oz airlines generally won't accept you unless they're desperate AND will be able to get a validation of your foreign licence for use in Oz. 'Validation' means granting you equivalent privileges in Oz that you have with your overseas licence in its region of issue. You hold a CPL so that's the level of privileges you would get in Oz.

Rather than your options a. or b. why don't you go to the US & get an FAA ATPL (no MPA crap there, either). I'd be pretty surprised if you don't meet the experience requirements. You don't need to hold a foreign ATPL because you would be jumping through the same initial ATP issue hoops everyone does. You would have to get through the US security bull**** but apart from that it's an easy step:

* Pass the single ATP theory exam (very, very easy! A few days study at most.)
* Pass the ATP flight test ('checkride'). Really just an IR test with slightly tighter tolerances eg quarter scale deflection on the ILS. Also it's a 'canned manoeuvre' test ie Do two of these, one of those, one this other item etc'. Often it's done VFR with pop-up requests for approaches. The US ATP includes IR privileges so no separate IR required, unlike lower level licences.

NOTE: The checkride includes an oral section prior to flight. Expect a ground grilling with application level scenario questions.

There is no minimum training requirement although a few hours with an instructor is a good idea to get used to the US system's quirks.

After the US ATP is issued, use it and not the JAA one for the Oz licence issue. The FAA ATP could even be done in a single instead of a multi because it's the level of licence you're after, not aircraft types. You would use your JAA CPL qualifications to get multi + whatever else you have that will transfer. Voila! You will have sidestepped the whole MPA problem and gained an additional licence.

BTW, if you do go the US route, you could take the opportunity to do the test in something you can't fly on your JAA ticket eg floatplanes or tailwheel or whatever. When you get to Oz you can combine your JAA and your FAA qualifications to add on to your Oz licence.

[Tinstaafl]

Would it be 3 weeks in the US to sort out Homeland Insecurity? I think most of the arrangements can be done from overseas with only one or two things to be done once you land in the US.

Apart from DHS bull**** the FAA ATP can be done in as little as a few days from start to finish if you get your act together. Buy the Gleim, ASA and/or Jeppessen ATP exam prep + the ATP Practical Test Standard, available at any US pilot shop eg Sportys. The exam prep is easy - I did mine mostly on a flight from the UK to the US with a few nights study before hand.

The worst part of the exam is having to remember minima, variations & limitations specified in fractions of a statute mile

I found the ground grilling to be the most difficult part even though I held an Oz ATPL when I did my US ATP. Oz licence tests include similar application level questions so it wasn't unfamiliar but the US rules, requirements & procedures are so different.

The flying isn't too difficult. Be aware that it is the norm for approaches to be vectored to the FAF, not the IAF. That trapped me on a VOR approach when I became confused for a period trying to work out where the hell ATC was sending me & why an intercept wasn't working. I was expecting to enter the approach via the IAF, not the FAF. Upshot was getting a partial pass & having to redo the approach a few days later.

Oz ATPL theory can be more difficult than JAA in some areas but at least prep. courses are only measured in weeks, instead of months. An advantage of doing the Oz theory is that some airlines frown upon those people who bypass Oz's more difficult ATPL exams by opting for the Oz CPL --> FAA ATP --> Oz ATPL route.

[Capt Chambo]

"An advantage of doing the Oz theory is that some airlines frown upon those people who bypass Oz's more difficult ATPL exams by opting for the Oz CPL --> FAA ATP --> Oz ATPL route."

I think your last statement needs emphasising. I was advised by a couple of training organisations that I spoke to that certain Australian airlines would not accept an Australian ATPL that had been issued on the back of an FAA ATPL. With that in mind I converted my UK ATPL rather than my FAA ATPL.

(Whether or not an Airline can discriminate, or indeed whether it's true that they do, is something I didn't want to find out the hard way!)

One other avenue worth exploring is converting to a New Zealand ATPL, and then using the trans Tasman agreement to convert that to an Australian ATPL. Two antipodean licences for the price of one ;)

[Dreamshiner]

Based on the above, its not recommended to convert until your JAA ATPL is unfrozen as at present all you have is a CPL so the Australians would recognise the CPL?

If Qantas/Jetstar/Qantaslink don't look favourably on converting the licence how would they regard converting to a NZ licence and getting the trans Tasmin thingy to recognise it?

Granted residency and right to work is another issue but I am only asking about licencing at present.

Based on the above posts on this thread in order of preference to most chief pilots/HR bods in Oz that keeps most door open (JAA to CASA)?:

1. Full CASA ATPL subjects passed
2. JAA to NZ to Aus licence via Tasmin
3. JAA licence to CASA
4. JAA to CASA via FAA ATP

Essentially all I want to know is the most cost/time efficient method of converting that makes me as attractive to as many hirers as possible.

[Leezyjet]

Anyone got any suggestions for places to do the conversion and costs ?.

On the visa side of things, I had a look on the Australian immigration website, and it appears that "Pilot" has been taken off the general category (when I looked a few years go, it was on there which was part of the reason I learn't to fly !!), and the only was you can get a residency visa is to be sponsored, however if I read it correctly, the catch 22 is that you have to have 3 years experience in your job role before you can be sponsored so that rules out any f/atpl's right away.

Most frustrating seeing as QF and DJ are both recruting at the moment !!.

:ugh: